SALAM : NEVER SAY
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
I really cannot understand the positions you hold. You have come herestating that we should not seek knowledge, while the God clearly says that we should SAY "my Lord increase my knowledge".to all and idolfree, I am not yet done with it and I have not given up what I started. I have to discuss with you 020114. Before that, let us come to this topic, below
Now you are saying that greeting with the UTMOST greeting of PEACE is incorrect? How do you reason? This is what the God instructs us to do becauase our essential nature is PEACE and it is what we are returning to. Please hlep me to understand why you are saying things opposite to the teachings of the God?
(654) And if those who have faith came to you with Our signs, so say "peace upon you, your Lord decreed on Himself the mercy, that who from you did evil with ignorance/foolishness, then he repented from after it, and corrected/repaired, so that He truly is a forgiver, merciful."
I want to draw your attention to the above part of the ayat shown in blue
Those who have Faith
The meaning of the phrase given above is those who have belief in the Unseen(the Highest Wisdom) and fear for the Unseen(the Highest Wisdom); they who believe and fear SUCH AUTHORITY shall always be seeking, unassuming and forbearing. These subservient bondsmen of Allah when they make their visit there will be peaceful semblance in the atmosphere; upon their faces will be the glow and brightness of obedience to allah; and in their words we will find the order of dignity; such are the people with IMAN, that which we shall come to know not at the very first sight. Hence we shall not say "Assalamu Alaikkum " to a stranger. Salam shall have to be said only if we are satisfied that a visitor or a stranger has the above qualities in him.Those who have faith came to you with Our signs
What are the SIGNS of ALLAH that we have to look for, in a visitor or a stranger when he says 'salam' to you, before you returning your salam? This is a question for you to answer. If we never look for such SIGNS from ALLAH in a person before we say 'salam' to him in return, it indeed is not keeping up our FAITH.Please hlep me to understand why you are saying things opposite to the teachings of the God?
Now I need your help to make clear to me if you really believe that I say things opposite to the teachings of God? I will continue with the rest of 654 after finishing complete discussion on it. Please be ready.
May Allah,
Increase my Comprehension!
Expand my heart, To Accept Islam! -
Peace be upon you,
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idolfree1 wrote
Peace be upon you Doctor,
I really cannot understand the positions you hold. You have come herestating that we should not seek knowledge, while the God clearly says that we should SAY "my Lord increase my knowledge".to all and idolfree, I am not yet done with it and I have not given up what I started. I have to discuss with you 020114. Before that, let us come to this topic, below
I will repectfully await that conclusion.
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Now you are saying that greeting with the UTMOST greeting of PEACE is incorrect? How do you reason? This is what the God instructs us to do becauase our essential nature is PEACE and it is what we are returning to. Please hlep me to understand why you are saying things opposite to the teachings of the God?(654) And if those who have faith came to you with Our signs, so say "peace upon you, your Lord decreed on Himself the mercy, that who from you did evil with ignorance/foolishness, then he repented from after it, and corrected/repaired, so that He truly is a forgiver, merciful."
I want to draw your attention to the above part of the ayat shown in blue
Those who have Faith
The meaning of the phrase given above is those who have belief in the Unseen(the Highest Wisdom) and fear for the Unseen(the Highest Wisdom); they who believe and fear SUCH AUTHORITY shall always be seeking, unassuming and forbearing. These subservient bondsmen of Allah when they make their visit there will be peaceful semblance in the atmosphere; upon their faces will be the glow and brightness of obedience to allah; and in their words we will find the order of dignity; such are the people with IMAN, that which we shall come to know not at the very first sight. Hence we shall not say "Assalamu Alaikkum " to a stranger. Salam shall have to be said only if we are satisfied that a visitor or a stranger has the above qualities in him.Sure, when we meet people who have faith in the signs of the God, we greet them with PEACE because we understand that PEACE is the essential state of mind that will bring us happiness we seek. This website is for those who have faith in the signs of the God. Is there no one here that YOU feel worthy of giving this greeting to? I also ask you to take a look at the following verse;
(4389) So turn away/disregard from them, and say "peace." So they will know.
Who is that statement of PEACE given to? One who has faith in the signs of the God?
Those who have faith came to you with Our signs
What are the SIGNS of ALLAH that we have to look for, in a visitor or a stranger when he says 'salam' to you, before you returning your salam? This is a question for you to answer. If we never look for such SIGNS from ALLAH in a person before we say 'salam' to him in return, it indeed is not keeping up our FAITH.Either way, we still plant the seed of peace.
(4389) So turn away/disregard from them, and say "peace." So they will know.
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Please hlep me to understand why you are saying things opposite to the teachings of the God?Now I need your help to make clear to me if you really believe that I say things opposite to the teachings of God? I will continue with the rest of 654 after finishing complete discussion on it. Please be ready.
I am always ready because I am seeking the truth, and not afraid to find out I might be incorrect in a certain matter and always flexible, ready to adjust, not rock hard hearted.
(58 ...and if they came to you, they greeted you with what The God does not greet you with it, and they say in their minds, "If only The God tortures us because (of) what we say." Enough for them Hell they roast/suffer (from) it , so how bad (is) the end/destination?
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(654) And if those who have faith came to you with Our signs,
I want to draw your attention to the part of the ayat shown in blue
Those who have Faith
The meaning of the phrase given above is those who have belief in the Unseen(the Highest Wisdom) and fear for the Unseen(the Highest Wisdom); they who believe and fear SUCH AUTHORITY shall always be seeking, unassuming and forbearing. These subservient bondsmen of Allah when they make their visit there will be peaceful semblance in the atmosphere; upon their faces will be the glow and brightness of obedience to allah; and in their words we will find the order of dignity; such are the people with IMAN, that which we shall come to know not at the very first sight. Hence we shall not say "Assalamu Alaikkum " to a stranger. Salam shall have to be said only if we are satisfied that a visitor or a stranger has the above qualities in him.Sure,
Thanks.
when we meet people who have faith in the signs of the God, we greet them with PEACE
Can you say from the Book the qualities of the faithful so that we can be sure of who has faith and who does not have? For example
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For, Faithful are those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a tremor in their hearts, and when they hear His signs rehearsed, find their faith strengthened.
Faithfully speaking I am not yet given by my Lord the wisdom to know what you conceal in your heart. Only over a period of time may Allah shall reveal in our hearts about the people around you. Give me more examples like this, so that our hearts receive the revelations. Allah Himself says He would test us when we say "We are mumins". See below what Allah says!029.002
Do men(the people of this website) think that they will be left alone on saying, "We are Faithful", and that they will not be tested?idolfree, now do you still believe you can certify about the men of this website when the matter as a whole is with Allah?
This website is for those who have faith in the signs of the God. Is there no one here that YOU feel worthy of giving this greeting to? I also ask you to take a look at the following verse;
Are you still sure you can see iman in the hearts of others and will you still advance before allah gives "peace" to us all? Let us fear allah most and it is the first of all requirements to be a mumin, before we coney peace that we haven't yet earned for ourselves. Look up to HIM alone for Peace and never expect to receive the same from people around. It is like associating people with Allah, in a certain way.
(4389) So turn away from them, and say "peace." So they will know.
Who is that statement of PEACE given to? One who has faith in the signs of the God?
Turn away from them and say " Peace "
Never turn towards them and say "Peace be upon you"What do you mean by "turn away from them" and especially when allah had avoided saying 'turn towards them'? Please idolfree, you answer me now who to say "Peace!" Let wisdom prevail upon us, By Allah!
I am always ready because I am seeking the truth, and not afraid to find out I might be incorrect in a certain matter and always flexible, ready to adjust, not rock hard hearted.
(58 ...and if they came to you, they greeted you with what The God does not greet you with it, and they say in their minds, "If only The God tortures us because (of) what we say." Enough for them Hell they roast/suffer (from) it , so how bad (is) the end/destination?
We shall deal with it later on similar lines if the answer for 588 in the light of above is not clear by now.
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
Before we continue, tell me this, are you saying the God has prohibited the greeting of Peace to certain people? Because you should be aware that we are NOT to prohibit what the God prohibited. Yes, we are to give the greeting of "peace be upon you" to those who have faith, but is it prohibited to do so to people we are not sure if they have faith or not? Aren't we inviting our brothers and sisters to the "garden", which is the state of PEACE?
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
Before we continue, tell me this, are you saying the God has prohibited the greeting of Peace to certain people? Because you should be aware that we are NOT to prohibit what the God prohibited.Why do not you care to answer your agreements and disagreements over my posting first? If only you had done such homework this question would not have arisen at all. Any way for Allah's sake i will continue answering to the questions. Yes I mean what I said in the previous post http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=33809#33809
we are to give the greeting of "peace be upon you" to those who have faith,
I am sorry and am afraid not!
Listen to this!
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Those who believe and whose hearts are set at Peace by the remembrance of Allah; and wihtout doubt only in rememberance of Allah are the hearts set at Peace.but is it prohibited to do so to people we are not sure if they have faith or not? Aren't we inviting our brothers and sisters to the "garden", which is the state of PEACE?
Which means we do not posses the garden and our state of 'everlasting peace' itself is under question, waiting with 'bated-breath' for His judgement; we turn them to Allah with whom the "Garden of Peace" is! We are not inviting to a garden that we do not have, but turn them in the direction of Allah; we aught to make them realize that between their Qibla and themselves there shall be none but Allah.
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O you who believe! answer Allah and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that Allah intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered. -
Peace be upon you Doctor,
idolfree1 wrote
Peace be upon you Doctor,
Before we continue, tell me this, are you saying the God has prohibited the greeting of Peace to certain people? Because you should be aware that we are NOT to prohibit what the God prohibited.Why do not you care to answer your agreements and disagreements over my posting first?
The reason that I had to go back first is to get some order to this discussion. You see, there are questions that I present that you do not answer, then you proceed to ask me further questions, so I have to go back from time to time. For example, you have stated over and over again that we are not reject knowledge, but I gave the verse where we are told to SAY"my Lord increase my knowledge", but you have never responded to that. Please pointme to the response if I missed it.
If only you had done such homework this question would not have arisen at all. Any way for Allah's sake i will continue answering to the questions. Yes I mean what I said in the previous post http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=33809#33809
I'm glad you meant what you said, I hope we can continue with some reason.
idolfree wrote
we are to give the greeting of "peace be upon you" to those who have faith,I am sorry and am afraid not!
Listen to this!
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Those who believe and whose hearts are set at Peace by the remembrance of Allah; and wihtout doubt only in rememberance of Allah are the hearts set at Peace.And you proved what?
idolfree wrote
but is it prohibited to do so to people we are not sure if they have faith or not? Aren't we inviting our brothers and sisters to the "garden", which is the state of PEACE?Which means we do not posses the garden and our state of 'everlasting peace' itself is under question, waiting with 'bated-breath' for His judgement; we turn them to Allah with whom the "Garden of Peace" is!
I have never said that the HUMAN possesses the garden, it is a state of mind, it is the state of the SOURCE, from which we manifest. And again, we want this state for ALL PEOPLE, so why not greet them with a greeting of PURPOSE, not just a meaningless statement like "hey".
We are not inviting to a garden that we do not have, but turn them in the direction of Allah; we aught to make them realize that between their Qibla and themselves there shall be none but Allah.
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O you who believe! answer Allah and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that Allah intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered.Okay, and how is that different from what I am saying?
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You see, there are questions that I present that you do not answer, then you proceed to ask me further questions, so I have to go back from time to time. For example, you have stated over and over again that we are not reject knowledge, but I gave the verse where we are told to SAY"my Lord increase my knowledge", but you have never responded to that. Please pointme to the response if I missed it.
idolfree,
what we are discussing here in this forum is not on knowledge, but a different topic altogether say, 'Salam'. Your question on discussion on knowledge is in a different section which i told you i would discuss soon. Now only you want the time. Since i am a doctor my free time is not fixed and i did not point time at all.
idolfree
we are to give the greeting of "peace be upon you" to those who have faith,drfazl
Listen to this!
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Those who believe and whose hearts are set at Peace by the remembrance of Allah; and wihtout doubt only in rememberance of Allah are the hearts set at Peace.idolfree And you proved what?
The Proof is there in the ayat for the believers that you cannot impart salam/peace in anyone's heart. I will deal with this first with you before going to all the questions that follows.
idolfree wrote but is it prohibited to do so to people we are not sure if they have faith or not? Aren't we inviting our brothers and sisters to the "garden", which is the state of PEACE?
drfazl We do not posses the garden and our state of 'everlasting peace' itself is under question, waiting with 'bated-breath' for His judgement; we turn them to Allah with whom the "Garden of Peace" is!idolfree I have never said that the HUMAN possesses the garden, it is a state of mind, it is the state of the SOURCE, from which we manifest.
drfazl So, you mean to say you do not possess the gardens but the source itself. And further you say that you are already a manifestation of the source having the manifest gardens(manifestation of peaceful state of mind). Please show proof for the same. Please also clarify where is mind and where is the 'source ' ? If all are within us, why not we talk about us, the ultimate reality of the source and mind ?
idolfree And again, we want this state for ALL PEOPLE, so why not greet them with a greeting of PURPOSE, not just a meaningless statement like "hey".
drfazl Have you got any proof of your purposeful claim that when you greet the minds with, " Peace! there was peace " ?
drfazlWe are not inviting to a garden/peace/stateof mind that we do not have, but turn them in the direction of Allah; we aught to make them realize that between their Qibla and themselves there shall be none but Allah to serve them with Peace/the garden/state of mind!.
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O you who believe! answer Allah and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that Allah intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered.idolfree Okay, and how is that different from what I am saying?
You say May Peace/garden/state of mind be upon all, as if we have the power over all minds and as if our Wish could be the Rule
Allah says But for His allowance there is no Peace/garden/state of Mind. Further Allah says HE is between the garden of peace and a man's mind..
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
idolfree,
what we are discussing here in this forum is not on knowledge, but a different topic altogether say, 'Salam'. Your question on discussion on knowledge is in a different section which i told you i would discuss soon. Now only you want the time. Since i am a doctor my free time is not fixed and i did not point time at all.I will await your explanation on knowledge, but until I hear it, it makes it difficult to focus on anything else you say, knowing that you say the opposite of what we are told to say in regards to knowledge.
(132Those who believe and whose hearts are set at Peace by the remembrance of Allah; and wihtout doubt only in rememberance of Allah are the hearts set at Peace.
idolfree And you proved what?
The Proof is there in the ayat for the believers that you cannot impart salam/peace in anyone's heart. I will deal with this first with you before going to all the questions that follows.
I am not stating that by saying "peace be upon you" that we can actually give that other person peace, NO, but it is like planting a seed in the ground. We hope that one day the person would wake up and that seed would grow.
idolfree I have never said that the HUMAN possesses the garden, it is a state of mind, it is the state of the SOURCE, from which we manifest.
drfazl So, you mean to say you do not possess the gardens but the source itself.
NO, I have not said that either. Please remain patient and stop trying summarize my understanding until you are clear about what I am saying, that causes confusion. We manifest from the God, who is the Source of all things. We come from the God and to Him we return, this state of the Garden is equated with "PEACE". That is because this is the area of undifferentiated energy/matter, where there is PEACE. The ancient Kemetans called this "AMEN". It is through differentiation that beings come into this world, but we are all of the same substance.
(1025) and the God, He calls to the Home of Peace...
SO getting back to Peace, it is the essential nature of ALL THINGS, even the ones that don't know it, so isn't it wise to greet with PEACE, even to those who reject?
(2563) ...and when the ignorant speak to them, they only say "peace"
And further you say that you are already a manifestation of the source having the manifest gardens(manifestation of peaceful state of mind). Please show proof for the same.
The God is ONE, we are all manifest parts of the WHOLE. ALL is WITHIN us, that is where the journey is, WITHIN. That is why Musa was told to take his shoes off, it is not a physical journey. I have shown proofs above of this claim, can you show me proof that we do NOT have PEACE within us? We all have it, just that some are blind from seeing the truth, so they wander.
Please also clarify where is mind and where is the 'source ' ? If all are within us, why not we talk about us, the ultimate reality of the source and mind ?
Because we are only parts of the WHOLE, we are not the WHOLE itself. Think of an Ocean, and PARTS of the ocean have frozen into icebergs. The icebergs see themselves as seperate beings, yet they are of the same substance as all other icebergs and the water itself. But in saying that, a tiny drop of water does not have the POWER of the Ocean. That is a crude analogy, but helps explain my position.
drfazl Have you got any proof of your purposeful claim that when you greet the minds with, " Peace! there was peace " ?
No, of course not, but I do have proof that what you see and hear REPETITAVELY has an effect on you, that is why we are to maintain the LEARNING PROCESS(salaat) at dawn and dusk everyday and to GUARD that process. Advertisers know this well which is why commercials cost so much money, millions sometimes. Would you pay millions of dollars for something that doesn't work?
drfazlWe are not inviting to a garden/peace/stateof mind that we do not have, but turn them in the direction of Allah; we aught to make them realize that between their Qibla and themselves there shall be none but Allah to serve them with Peace/the garden/state of mind!.
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O you who believe! answer Allah and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that Allah intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered.And how is that DIFFERENT from what I am saying?
You say May Peace/garden/state of mind be upon all, as if we have the power over all minds and as if our Wish could be the Rule
Allah says But for His allowance there is no Peace/garden/state of Mind. Further Allah says HE is between the garden of peace and a man's mind.Brother, perhaps you do not understand english language that well, but I have never stated that by my greeting of PEACE, that all minds will just automatically turn towards peace, NO. But when you understand how SUGGESTION works, you will understand why we greet with PEACE.
Since you are a doctor, you should be famliar with the Double -Blind Experiment. For those who are not, this experiment gives us great insight into the POWER of our UNSEEN thoughts. If you want to test a drug, you take two people and do NOT tell them which one you gave the pill too. The REASON for this is that the scientist does not want the SUBCOSCIOUS of the person to EFFECT the outcome of the test. Its like saying, "if you THINK you cant, you WON'T"
So in conclusion, when we greet with "Peace be upon you", we are planting the seeds of thought. We can see how saying it in Arabic if you are not Arabic does not really hold the same power, because the Arabic words are not influencing the other person. It is EASy for many to say "salamulaikum", because it sounds cool, like a gang, but it is difficult for people to say PEACE be upon you. Test it to see if what I say is true (non arab speakers of course)
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
I will await your explanation on knowledge, but until I hear it, it makes it difficult to focus on anything else you say, knowing that you say the opposite of what we are told to say in regards to knowledge.Let us get into the unseen; you are speaking about mind, the unseen; i am speaking about the wisdom, the unseen. Be positive. We will meet at some point. Then we will see each other clearly. I see that occasion near.
(132 drfazl Those who believe and whose hearts are set at Peace by the remembrance of Allah; and wihtout doubt only in rememberance of Allah are the hearts set at Peace.
idolfree And you proved what?
drfazlThe Proof is there in the ayat for the believers that you cannot impart salam/peace in anyone's heart. I will deal with this first with you before going to all the questions that follows.
idolfree I am not stating that by saying "peace be upon you" that we can actually give that other person peace, NO, but it is like planting a seed in the ground. We hope that one day the person would wake up and that seed would grow.
See, we are the same, but our approaches are difdrent! I leave the matter of "peace" to Allah with hope; whereas you plant the seed with hope. You believe in mind and i believe in wisdom. We will meet at some point! May Allah Bless.
NO, I have not said that either. Please remain patient and stop trying summarize my understanding until you are clear about what I am saying, that causes confusion.
See again! you ask me to be patient when i have never stepped out of my patience and composure. There is a sense of superiority in you i suppose, i may be wrong though. Any way do not prematurely conclude on anything.
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We manifest from the God who is the Source of all things. We come from the God
We manifest from the God ?
Or, we came into being by the command of God ?And to Him we return, this state of the Garden is equated with "PEACE".
I agree. There is no peace except with Him and unless we seek from Him there is no peace.
That is because this is the area of undifferentiated energy/matter, where there is PEACE It is through differentiation that beings come into this world, but we are all of the same substance.
We came from the undifferentiated energy matter ? And we return to the same undifferentiated energy matter ? Do we disperse and disintegrate ? And we are not to be gathered again ? State the Source, the ayat from Quran. Please explain. Like man is created, energy and matter are also created things by the Order from the High Command and hence these cannot be the source for human creation. We are created by Him by the same command, "Be!" since there is no change whatsoever in His manner of creation 3030.
SO getting back to Peace, it is the essential nature of ALL THINGS, even the ones that don't know it, so isn't it wise to greet with PEACE, even to those who reject?
even the ones that don't know 'peace' ... What ? And you say "Peace!" to the monkeys and donkeys too even if they do not know what it is ? Will you say to the nature around you "Peace"? PEACE is never an essential nature of ANYTHING except for man for 'Peace is Mind-Soul oriented'. When Allah calls to the heavens and the earth and say "Willingly or unwillingly come together", they said "We come together willingly". Choice was not given to anything but to the "mind of man" for man alone has the "mind of choice". Peace or torment is the recompensation for the action of "man with the mind of choice". The nature has no "mind of choice" at all.
(2563) ...and when the ignorant speak to them, they only say "peace"
When the ignorants address us with mockery we have nothing to speak to them, for they had already lost their minds and souls - so that they can never get anywhere near the Wisdom. Turn towards your ownself now saying to yourself, "PEACE" seeking it earnestly from the All-Hearing and All-Knowing. See below When we see and hear the ignorants addressing us and mocking us, the faithful, "Say Peace!" Allah stops there. He does not say, "Say Peace!" to the ignorants.
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And the servants of Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!"Whcih means they say their prayers, remembering Allah more, seeking the "Peace!" from their Lord.
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The God is ONE, we are all manifest parts of the WHOLE. ALL is WITHIN us, that is where the journey is, WITHIN. Because we are only parts of the WHOLE, we are not the WHOLE itself. Think of an Ocean, and PARTS of the ocean have frozen into icebergs. The icebergs see themselves as seperate beings, yet they are of the same substance as all other icebergs and the water itself. But in saying that, a tiny drop of water does not have the POWER of the Ocean. That is a crude analogy, but helps explain my position.
If the journey is within, then we are entering into the most minute, miniscule, microscopic part of only the parts, of the wholesome. Then you say ALL is WITHIN us; you also say we are manifest parts of the WHOLE. Which of it is correct? Please never give worldly examples to understand God. Your knowledge will be very lowly and shall not reach up to the Wisdom of the Almighty. See below, a warning from Allah!
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YUSUFALI Invent not similitudes for Allah for Allah knoweth, and ye know not. -
Peace be upon you Doctor,
Let us get into the unseen; you are speaking about mind, the unseen; i am speaking about the wisdom, the unseen. Be positive. We will meet at some point. Then we will see each other clearly. I see that occasion near.
I look foward to it
idolfree I am not stating that by saying "peace be upon you" that we can actually give that other person peace, NO, but it is like planting a seed in the ground. We hope that one day the person would wake up and that seed would grow.
See, we are the same, but our approaches are difdrent! I leave the matter of "peace" to Allah with hope; whereas you plant the seed with hope. You believe in mind and i believe in wisdom. We will meet at some point! May Allah Bless.
I believe in both mind and wisdom, and I follow the instruction to greet with the purposeful greeting of "Peace".
See again! you ask me to be patient when i have never stepped out of my patience and composure. There is a sense of superiority in you i suppose, i may be wrong though. Any way do not prematurely conclude on anything.
No, not a sense of superiority, I am just trying to figure out what causes you to say things that I naver said, this has happens way too many times for me to count. Just like above, you stated about me that I believe in Mind, while you believe in wisdom, and stated that we will meet one day. That is misleading because it leads one to believe that I don't believe in wisdom, only "mind", so I assume it is impatience on your part, why else would you offer a statement as if it is true, when I have said no such thing? I do not think you purposelly do it, so I remind you to be patient so that it does not continue to happen.
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Peace be upon yo Doctor,
We manifest from the God ?
Or, we came into being by the command of God ?We are the ONE manifest through many, if you disagree, show me one particle where the God does not reside. The command comes from THAT which percieves. So we manifest from the God by His command, yes.
I agree. There is no peace except with Him and unless we seek from Him there is no peace.
Agreed.
We came from the undifferentiated energy matter ?
Sure
And we return to the same undifferentiated energy matter ?
Seems logical, I don't know what was before that that we might return to.
Do we disperse and disintegrate ?
From dust to dust
And we are not to be gathered again ?
Yes, we are to be gathered again.
State the Source, the ayat from Quran. Please explain. Like man is created, energy and matter are also created things by the Order from the High Command and hence these cannot be the source for human creation.
Isn't water created? Yet it is stated that all things were created from water. Why do you assume that the energy an matter being spoken about is the absolute beginning? I can only take it as far as possible, I cannot even begint to understand THAT which percieves, I can only disuss that which is percieved.
We are created by Him by the same command, "Be!" since there is no change whatsoever in His manner of creation 3030.
I agree and I said nothing different than that.
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SO getting back to Peace, it is the essential nature of ALL THINGS, even the ones that don't know it, so isn't it wise to greet with PEACE, even to those who reject?even the ones that don't know 'peace' ... What ? And you say "Peace!" to the monkeys and donkeys too even if they do not know what it is ? Will you say to the nature around you "Peace"?
Yes, I say it to all humans in the hopes that one day they will awaken and understand. Here is an example of that mindset fronm the reading(quran).
(126 And when they entered in the manner their father had enjoined, it did not profit them in the least against (the plan of) Allah It was but a necessity of Jacob's mind, which he discharged. For he was, by our instruction, full of knowledge (and experience) but most men know not.
So was it wrong for Jacob to "SAY" to his sons what they could not understand, at least not yet? Please answer.
Also, what is the following verse telling us to do?
(2563) ...and when the ignorant address them, they say, 'Peace!'
Will the ignorant be able to understand what we "SAY"? Yet we are told to SAY "peace". Please explain how your position fits with the above evidence.
PEACE is never an essential nature of ANYTHING except for man for 'Peace is Mind-Soul oriented'. When Allah calls to the heavens and the earth and say "Willingly or unwillingly come together", they said "We come together willingly". Choice was not given to anything but to the "mind of man" for man alone has the "mind of choice". Peace or torment is the recompensation for the action of "man with the mind of choice". The nature has no "mind of choice" at all.
The God is ONE, therefore ALL THINGS have PEACE as thier essential nature. Are mountains, animals and all other things besides man OUTSIDE of the God?
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(2563) ...and when the ignorant speak to them, they only say "peace"When the ignorants address us with mockery we have nothing to speak to them, for they had already lost their minds and souls - so that they can never get anywhere near the Wisdom. Turn towards your ownself now saying to yourself, "PEACE" seeking it earnestly from the All-Hearing and All-Knowing. See below When we see and hear the ignorants addressing us and mocking us, the faithful, "Say Peace!" Allah stops there. He does not say, "Say Peace!" to the ignorants.
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And the servants of Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!"Whcih means they say their prayers, remembering Allah more, seeking the "Peace!" from their Lord.
I ask you again to look at the example of Jacob saying to his sons what they could not yet understand.
Brother, I ask you to ponder on one thing, the message of the God is designed to lead us OUT OF DARKNESS into Light. How can we be led out of darkness if those with light refrain from sharing the info? What was the duty of the messengers? What good is "preaching to the converted"?
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Peace be upon you,
If the journey is within, then we are entering into the most minute, miniscule, microscopic part of only the parts, of the wholesome.
We are going to the SOURCE, not to the physical molecule.
Then you say ALL is WITHIN us; you also say we are manifest parts of the WHOLE. Which of it is correct?
Both, we are INDIVIDUALS, that is, indivisible duality. DO not seperate what he God commanded to be joined.
Please never give worldly examples to understand God. Your knowledge will be very lowly and shall not reach up to the Wisdom of the Almighty. See below, a warning from Allah!
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YUSUFALI Invent not similitudes for Allah for Allah knoweth, and ye know not.What is the Arabic word that you have translated as "Invent"?
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
I believe in both mind and wisdom, and I follow the instruction to greet with the purposeful greeting of "Peace".Both are not opposites then, right? One form needs the help of another form for confirmation, for anyone who need strengthening his wisdom. If one can get at the wisdom straight, he needs no confirmation from the other form. But you keep refusing to accept me atleast at my level when i denounce knowledge/mind. May be for you it is unacceptable; but you failed to appreciate that it is possible for any one to get at the wisdom without the aid of mind/knowledge who might have been endowed. So there is a clear stand of ability to appreciate/not appreciate; that is it! it does not mean i have issued statements against you and that you must immediately pounce upon me, losing your patience that made you feel as if i was impatient. D It is a discuusion board. None can issue statements here. Look at what you state here
No, not a sense of superiority, I am just trying to figure out what causes you to say things that I naver said, this has happens way too many times for me to count. Just like above, you stated about me that I believe in Mind, while you believe in wisdom, and stated that we will meet one day. That is misleading because it leads one to believe that I don't believe in wisdom, only "mind", so I assume it is impatience on your part, why else would you offer a statement as if it is true, when I have said no such thing? I do not think you purposelly do it, so I remind you to be patient so that it does not continue to happen. D
Hmmmm.
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Peace drfazl,
Sorry for the delay...
If, as you say the "intention is the key", then, the 'key' is sure to open the gate and lead one towards salam.
Yes, that is the intention.
We see most people enter into the chat rooms/discussion rooms saying 'salaams' and 'wa salaams' invariably endingup with scoffs and jeers.
I don't see that. In fact, I see quite the opposite. I often see disagreement, but almost always ending in peace, aka, salam. This in turn leads to mutual respect and spiritual growth.
Is it dignifying to Allah or is it abuse of His names?
Why are these the only choices? I sincerely doubt that there is a soul on this board who greets with "salam" with the intention of abusing Allah's name. The intention is to greet in a peaceful manner, and bid farewell in a peaceful manner. This is a reminder that one should remain at peace, even while debating- nothing more, nothing less. The intention is good.
Allah clearly says if one receives any good it is from HIM for his righteousness; and if one receives any bad it is due to his own wrong doings. We shall have to value our own virtue first before praying for SALAM for anyone.
This has nothing to do with praying. It is a greeting.
The intention is only at the mind level.
I disagree. My intention is not a calculated decision. Intention is powered by emotion, and in this case, the emotion is one of peace.
Saying salam is a lip service compared to praying for salam to all, all the time, keeping in mind the restrictions set by Allah.
Yes, and it is lip service compared to spending one's entire lifetime doing volunteer work for the hungry. It is lipservice compared to sacrificing a kidney. But alone, greeting with peace is just that.
Using this same methodology, I could tell you that saying "I Love You" to your children is lipservice compared to feeding, nurturing, educating, and looking after them when they are sick. Does this make "I Love You" lipservice on it's own?
We use Allah's name where there is Praise for Allah's Dignity, Wisdom, Truth, Power, Forgiveness, Benevolance and so on..
Yes, but saying "peace be upon you" is in fact a lawful greeting.
654 When those who believe in Our Revelations come to you, say, SALAMUN ALAIKUM (Peace be upon you!) Your Lord has decreed for Himself Mercy. Thus anyone among you who commits a bad deed out of ignorance, and then repents and makes amends should know that He is Forgiving, Merciful.
If only Al Salam, one of the names of Allah for instance, is used with its sanctity well preserved and guarded in the heart of a mumin, and if only Allah had recognized such truth in your heart, salamath would have descended in the hearts of the people you wish for.
Inshallah!
It is blasphemous to use salam as lipservice.
It is blasphemous to assume the intentions of others. And how else would one know if the words on the screen are lip-service or heart-felt greetings? It is also blasphemous to call unlawful what has been made lawful.
May peace be upon you,
Tay -
Peace drfazl,
Why are these the only choices? I sincerely doubt that there is a soul on this board who greets with "salam" with the intention of abusing Allah's name. The intention is to greet in a peaceful manner, and bid farewell in a peaceful manner. This is a reminder that one should remain at peace, even while debating- nothing more, nothing less. The intention is good.(654) And if those who have faith came to you with Our signs, so say "peace upon you, your Lord decreed on Himself the mercy, that who from you did evil with ignorance/foolishness, then he repented from after it, and corrected/repaired, so that He truly is a forgiver, merciful."
I want to draw your attention to the above part of the ayat shown in blue
Those who have Faith
The meaning of the phrase given above is those who have belief in the Unseen(the Highest Wisdom) and fear for the Unseen(the Highest Wisdom); they who believe and fear SUCH AUTHORITY shall always be seeking, unassuming and forbearing. These subservient bondsmen of Allah when they make their visit there will be peaceful semblance in the atmosphere; upon their faces will be the glow and brightness of obedience to allah; and in their words we will find the order of dignity; such are the people with IMAN, that which we shall come to know not at the very first sight. Hence we shall not say "Assalamu Alaikkum " to a stranger. Salam shall have to be said only if we are satisfied that a visitor or a stranger has the above qualities in him.Those who have faith came to you with Our signs
What are the SIGNS of ALLAH that we have to look for, in a visitor or a stranger when he says 'salam' to you, before you returning your salam? This is a question for you to answer. If we never look for such SIGNS from ALLAH in a person before we say 'salam' to him in return, it indeed is not keeping up our FAITH.Allah clearly says if one receives any good it is from HIM for his righteousness; and if one receives any bad it is due to his own wrong doings. We shall have to value our own virtue first before praying for SALAM for anyone.
This has nothing to do with praying. It is a greeting.
Prayer and greeting in the name of allah are different ? You wish some one good by your greetings? Can you impart good on someone unless Allah grants it?
The intention is only at the mind level.
I disagree. My intention is not a calculated decision. Intention is powered by emotion, and in this case, the emotion is one of peace.
What strength of power do you think your emotion has to realise your greetings on someone? Allah says He alone can bestow Peace in the hearts! What is your opinion on this? You think your powerful greeting of peace, geared by emotion has the same benefit?
Saying salam is a lip service compared to praying for salam to all, all the time, keeping in mind the restrictions set by Allah.
Yes, and it is lip service compared to spending one's entire lifetime doing volunteer work for the hungry. It is lipservice compared to sacrificing a kidney. But alone, greeting with peace is just that.
You have clearly differentiated the lip service and action. Lipservice such as "Peace be upon you" has no power but action has. Speak up a lot about 'faith' that you have rehearsed and recited to serve peace, spend your life time, saying on Allah's benevolence upon us as a recompense to our faith in Him, to serve peace. Is donating kidney the same as keeping the original? If only you work to instill 'Faith in Allah', in his own true tone, allah would have saved His original kidneys. And this might bring him the 'intended peace'. All of us know the kidneys donated thinking that you do good, will be rejected as destiend by allah's command. If any good that shall come it comes from allah alone.
Using this same methodology, I could tell you that saying "I Love You" to your children is lipservice compared to feeding, nurturing, educating, and looking after them when they are sick. Does this make "I Love You" lipservice on it's own?
You love them and nurture them and they fall sick sometimes to such severity that you turn to Allah in grief and sorrow and pray for the wellness of your kith and kin. In the name of Allah you pray for speedy recovery. You do not wish them " Peace! I wish you Recovery! " Rather you will only say, " May god Bless You!" " May He send upon you speedy recovery!" You rightly said you are only looking after them until God gives them the cure. Your intention however powered by emotion will not do. You only shall pray in all humiity to God. And you will have to wait in patience until He shows His Mercy. He may or may not. It is His discretion.
We use Allah's name where there is Praise for Allah's Dignity, Wisdom, Truth, Power, Forgiveness, Benevolance and so on..
Yes, but saying "peace be upon you" is in fact a lawful greeting.
'Lawful' means? Has allah granted such permit to all ? And you are a party when such permission was granted? That one can use their emotion on anyone they wish so that they receive peace at the mere mentioning - 'peace!' and all that they aught to do to execute it is to 'generate the emotion'?
It is blasphemous to use salam as lipservice.
It is blasphemous to assume the intentions of others. And how else would one know if the words on the screen are lip-service or heart-felt greetings? It is also blasphemous to call unlawful what has been made lawful.
Even if your intentions are good, Allah says unless He allows Good, no peace shall ever enter anyone's heart. To consider 'my intentions shall be His intentions as well' is blasphemous, for sure!