My current Belief.
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Peace Jane,
It all depends on what you understand (salawa) to be. But in my world "wusta" does not mean 'middle' but 'best' and that based on research of where the base word occurs in the contexts of the recitation.
I agree. Noon is for lunch eat and perhaps a short sleep, not praying I think.
The only instances with a timing involved ought to be fajr and isha which I take to be morning and evening after studying the phenomenon deeper.
I agree, the morning and evening theme as 'special times' is ongoing in the Quran I see.
And I take the recitation (Quran) to first handedly be aimed towards a cleric of sorts, or preacher, a person who wishes to spread the word of God. This is my understanding of why it talks about "private time" after morning "salat" and after evening "salat". I think it refers to a priest-like person's daily schedule of work to unite the assembly for God.
This is interesting as I too began to think this way after my go at reading it all the way through in a few days back in 2011. I got the feeling that it is literally a conversation between Muhammad and the angel who is reciting it to him (albeit with the angel doing all the talking) and therefore most of the commandments in the Quran are for Muhammad specifically but not necessarily the rest of us. When the Quran says 'You must do/have this etc' I think it is actually just talking about Muhammad and only the bits where it starts with 'O you who believe...' are the bits that apply to all of us. I think it is weird when muslims quote the Quran verses that are clearly just about Muhammad as something that also applies to them ).
I think the friday prayer assembly WAS something that only belonged to Muhammad's time but I do think there is a commandment to continue an evening communal gathering as that is also something in the Jewish and Christian traditions. Whether it is for men only though is something I am still pondering on...
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. )
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Peace Jane,
I think we should still keep a sabbath like previous generations. The gathering once per week is that.
The commands for a cleric- like person is as true now as then in my opinion.
God bless you
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With regard to noon, you may be interested in point 20 here.
Thanks. Interesting how much conversation there is about a noon prayer when there seems to be so little evidence for it. Still think there is not enough evidence for any type of salat ritual other than at the ends of the day though. Saying grace before lunch or tea maybe pr eat but that is all.
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Peace Jane,
I think we should still keep a sabbath like previous generations. The gathering once per week is that.
The commands for a cleric- like person is as true now as then in my opinion.
God bless you
But I think the mandatory sabbath was to be discontinued after Jesus came to relieve the Jews of it, surely. Although they chose to carry on doing it as we see. But Jesus was meant to get them to focus on a daily evening gathering (which for some reason later was moved to sunday) with the idea that every household holds their own, not the whole town gathering, no. I think this is backed up by the Quranic references to hold the evening 'communion' (Monothesist Group translation) 'from sunset until complete darkness' i.e. the whole length of the twilight not just 5 minutes of prostrations and then you're done. You can't commune by yourself, it implies a group. I think it is supposed to be continued after Muhammad's death, just like after Jesus' death when he said 'do this in memory of me'.
Friday prayers only appear to apply to Muhammad's time though I think, as friday was apparently maket day in the jewish contolled area where they lived at the time so they took advantage of the opportunity to meet to discuss plans for 'advancement'. Still may be a good idea to have a weekly gathering if we choose but no Quranic commandment to do it now Muhammad is gone I think.
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Peace Jane,
I agree about communion and perhaps you know that I think that the Arabic word 'salat' actually refers to that phenomenon. I found a good definition of the word in a Webster's dictionary from 1828 from a link given by a member here which finally gave new light to my theories because it adds up for a good descriptive word for the phenomenon of salat. Likely it is one of the practices that Christians kept intact for a long time. I consider Muhammad's "islam" or faith to be Christianity for another people not previously guided and should not be much different in practice. So far my scriptural deciphering has revealed much evidence which supports that it is just the same as Jesus taught and Moses and Abraham and every other devout servant of God. The style of "religion" you find in a book called Quran is because much dogma has entered the interpretation of what it says and hadith books have shaped its understanding too. There seems not to be a Paganistic ritual system with slavishly strict adherence to prayers with timing etc or traveling to a "holy place" to worship God by using a cubic black building as a medium.
I cannot say that it is Christianity that we follow, but I meant it looks very much like that faith, without sectarianism. And Jesus hardly said he followed Christianity either nor did he instruct his followers to call it that. I suppose Jesus talked about God and the assembly of God and no more. No labels. Nothing.
Either you belong to that assembly and keep communion or you divide into sects like the majority of people have done despite the clear instruction not to for those who call themselves Muslim.
Suddenly the word communion is so clear to me. Thanks God!
However, I consider the meaning of sabbath to be the thing you do on a gathering day, ie. avoid your own pleasures and focus on God. The Jews avoided doing any other than glorify God the whole day and that is why they avoid working at all and they do not even cook or bake but prepare it a day in advance. The clerics of that time when Jesus was on Earth had "square-vision" and because Jesus healed and did good on the Sabbath day they were going to use that against him but they could not becuse they realized how hypocritical it seemed to arrest him for doing good and they would get the people against them. Do you wish to call it gathering then fine but I still feel it is keeping the Sabbath by doing that thing.
God bless you
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Peace all,
alh is a subject best studied in detail. I don't think a light read of the Quran will allow for a firm conclusion of the method and structure of alh.
My own studies of ?lh have developed only after years of study and constant modification of my understanding through years of evolution.
I've kept all my posts regarding ?lh in the following thread for convenient referral
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597210.0;nowap
You will note that my first post was in 2008 and the latest one was in 2012, which only serves to prove my point that learning about ?lh without the benefit of previous study is a long and on-going process.
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<b>I got the feeling that it is literally a conversation between Muhammad and the angel who is reciting it to him (albeit with the angel doing all the talking) and therefore most of the commandments in the Quran are for Muhammad specifically but not necessarily the rest of us. When the Quran says 'You must do/have this etc' I think it is actually just talking about Muhammad and only the bits where it starts with 'O you who believe...' are the bits that apply to all of us. I think it is weird when muslims quote the Quran verses that are clearly just about Muhammad as something that also applies to them ).</b>
Hi Jane.
I believe you are making a logical error here(just my opinion). The Koran was not sent for the Prophet, it was sent for all mankind, so it seems wrong to me that God would include anything in there that was just for Muhammad.
Are there any examples of Muhammad being told to do something in the Koran that doesn't apply to us?
