Issues on salat
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Peace Zulf.
I used to be the opposite of what you described in your last post. I could not care less about any religion or prayer. I probably did not even give any thought to God or any of His scriptures.
Now I stand before my creator for my daily connection to Him and to feed my "soul".
Qoran 2130] Who would forsake " millata" Abraham, except one who fools his own soul?
I am certain ,for me, that "salat" is a gift from GOD to those who seek to connect to Him/ have a special relationship with the Lord.
Recall that Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from serving/worshiping idols. My Lord, they have misled so many people. As for those who follow me, they belong with me. As for those who disobey me, You are Forgiver, Most Merciful. Our Lord, I have settled part of my family in this plantless valley, at Your Sacred House. Our Lord,That they observe the Salat...
Our Lord, You know whatever we conceal and whatever we declare?nothing is hidden from God on earth, nor in the heavens. Praise be to God for granting me, despite my old age, Ismail and Isaac. My Lord answers the prayers. My Lord, make me one who consistently observes the Salat, and also my children. Our Lord, please answer my prayers." (1435-40)Because Abraham was appreciative of His Lord's blessings, He chose him and guided him in a straight path. We granted him happiness in this life, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous. Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the millat/religion of Abraham, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper. (16120-123)
That path was followed by the children of Abraham, Moses, Jesus...etc.
And mention in the scripture Ismail. He was truthful when he made a promise, and he was a messenger prophet. He used to enjoin his family to observe the Salat and the Zakat; he was acceptable to his Lord. (1954-55)
We inspired Moses and his brother. "Maintain your homes in Egypt for the time being, turn your homes into synagogues, and maintain the Salat. Give good news to the believers.
She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of God. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Salat and the Zakat for as long as I live.
Let us not be of those who are loosing the "salat"
1959
After them, He substituted generations who lost the Salat, and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
In my discoveries the salat is the union style "keep-together of an assembly while zakat is the purifying work done in the same gathering in an assembly.
Question
How someone can fulfill the Salat obligation if he/she is alone* in the area where he/she live?
*e.g. The others choose to pray 5 times/day by using Sunni method.
Salm.
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I was under the impression that salat was the prayers given to God that was more or less ritualistic. The amount of people needed to perform salat is not important. I do wish there were a wider Quran Alone group near me, but there is just me and my wife, and my wife is more Sunni than anything else.
Besides the great debate of 2 or 3 (the Wusta debate) prayers a day, I would think that Fajr and Isha would be the most satisfactory, I could be corrected by those who has more experience in Quranic study.
I know there is pressure to pray a way different from those who do not carry the same mindset. The Mrs. did not appreciate at the beginning that I would omit the tashahud because I feel my prayers should be focused on justly me and God, as noted in (2014). As much respect I give to the Prophet Mohammed, it states
"I am God, there is no god but Me, so
serve Me and hold the contact prayer
for My remembrance."- Quran A Reformist Translation
Besides that point, you may perform salat yourself at times that is suggested in the Quran, which is solidly known amongst all communities as Fajr and Isha.
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Peace Nyte.
Here is the outcome of our service/worship practices(including salat, belief and good deeds...etc )
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The scales will be set on that day, equitably. Those whose weights are heavy will be the winners.79
As for those whose weights are light, they will be the ones who lost their souls,* as a consequence of disregarding our revelations, unjustly.The serving/worship of GOD alone is the "food" for our soul to grow (heavy) to be able to withstand the energy of GOD s presence on the day we meet Him. Day of resurrection.
"Salat" is part of that service/worship of GOD Alone .A connection to GOD to feed our spiritual self (soul).
Failing to heed our Creator leads to spiritual starvation and eventual ``loss'' of the soul.
We put ourselves with the winners or the losers that day. ,According to our own decisions/choices/deeds,,.
It is for our own good to observe "salat", GOD is doing us a favour with this gift. Also observing "salat" keeps us away from bad deeds...Providing our intention/sincerity is honest and we devote our service/worship to GOD Alone.
Look GOD does not need us
6;133
Your Lord is the Rich One; possessor of all mercy. If He wills, He can remove you, and substitute whomever He wills in your place, just as He produced you from the progeny of other people.Here is the key GOD ALONE, no partners in our "deen"
6161
Say, "My Lord has guided me in a straight path - the perfect deen of Abraham, monotheism. He never was an idol worshiper."6162
Say, "My Salat, my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to God alone, the Lord of the universe.
[GOD s justice is fair. The choice is clear. GOD and His commands or other ( whatever one follows/does that is not from GOD/GOD s system)?
6164
Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a lord, when He is the Lord of all things? No soul benefits except from its own works, and none bears the burden of another. Ultimately, you return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes."GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace JavaLatte,
Oneself is included. In that case just keep going on what God has taught you and refrain from slipping into conjecture and own wishful thinking. The salat thing is about sticking to the assembly which does not succumb to conjecture and stray ways.
It is not much to do really if you happen to be the only person in the world who understands. And if you are yourself you can still keep in unity with your Master even if it happens to be only you.
I would not worry too much about it. I understand if it is hard for you to "recruit" people to the command of God being in a hostile and unfriendly dogmatic and zealous community. But there are usually people who are questioning their ways everywhere. While I was in Iran I taught a man about the faith of God and his faith was strengthened. He has to keep his faith concealed not to throw his life to disaster, but he was still able to understand.
That was before I realized about salat, but it did not change too much.
God bless you
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Peace All.
Qoran is fully detalied, with no vagueness or contradiction? What requirement of the "deen" is missing? Our deen has been completed and perfected in the last scripture including "salat"
Qoran also tells us why we observe "Salat"?
The soul and Him who created it. Then showed it what is evil and what is good. Successful is one who redeems it. Failing is one who neglects it.Thr requirement of "salat" is clear
You shall recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and observe the Salat, for the Salat prohibits evil and vice. But the remembrance of God (through Salat) is the most important objective. God knows everything you do.All that was asked of them was to serve/ worship God, devoting the religion absolutely to Him alone, observe the Salat, and give the Zakat. Such is the perfect deen.
Indeed, those who reverence the rites decreed by God demonstrate the righteousness of their hearts.
For those who still have doubts
And serve/ worship your Lord, in order to attain certainty.GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace Jane.
GOD sends scriptures and messengers for our salvation.
How / Why/what /when/... are up to us to sort out. Also we need to sort out our priorities?
Yes, it is about what the GOD really wants and means ,not about what we want!"Salat" is a gift from GOD to help us towards our salvation
245
You shall seek help through steadfastness and the Salat. This is difficult indeed, but not so for the reverent,246
who believe that they will meet their Lord; that to Him they ultimately return.231
Successful indeed are the believers;232
who are reverent during their Salat.Of course everyone is free to translate/understand it the way they want?
God bless you.
Peace. -
Welcome to the forum Nyte
alh is an obligation on those who believe that all commandments in the Quran are from God.
Whether one feels an inclination to perform ?lh or not is irrelevant to the applicability of the commandment.
It is a categorically stated fact that the remembrance of God induces a state of peacefulness in one's heart (132.
As such, it can safely be said that if one is not deriving a sense of contentment from ?lh, then the heart's devotion to God is deficient in some way.
Furthermore, one''s adoption of ?lh as a regular practice can be gradual and it need not be rushed.
In a nutshell, ?lh is an obligation that will render your heart peaceful and?if you feel uncomfortable performing it?then ease into it at your own pace.
I hope you don't find my tone dominating. I have tried to be objective while keeping in mind your experiences of ?lh.
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First of all, I would also like to apologize if I sound harsh here. I just wanted to put straight questions and remarks, and though they might even sound sarcastic, they're just plain questions... and a plain answer in the same style will do. I'm not after the poster; I'm just chewing the subject matter.
Whether one feels an inclination to perform ?lh or not is irrelevant to the applicability of the commandment.
It is a categorically stated fact that the remembrance of God induces a state of peacefulness in one's heart (132.
As such, it can safely be said that if one is not deriving a sense of contentment from ?lh, then the heart's devotion to God is deficient in some way.
And if the namaz doesn't induce such peacefulness, then is it the fault of the practitioner, or is perhaps the exercise not the actual salat?
Furthermore, this way of reasoning is often used by sects/cults to induce guilt an fear into their members to keep them in line. They're told they're not pure enough, not ready, not strong enough, don't have strong enough faith... and therefore they must give more money (or whatever the sacrifice is). It's plain old emotional blackmail.
Also, it is painfully apparent that salat (as in namaz) is NOT preventing evil and vice, and doesn't seem to induce peacefulness either... at least not more than practices of other religions. People backbite, lie and murder, then do the namaz, and then again go back to their evil works. Is it that the namaz didn't have an effect on them (due to their wickedness), or is it that the namaz isn't the salat? Wasn't salat supposed to prevent evil?
Furthermore, one''s adoption of ?lh as a regular practice can be gradual and it need not be rushed.
In a nutshell, ?lh is an obligation that will render your heart peaceful and?if you feel uncomfortable performing it?then ease into it at your own pace.
You mean to start with e.g. 1 times a day instead of 5? Sounds reasonable, but...
What about those who start noticing that the namaz is not getting you closer to God after having done it their whole life? Are they wicked because of this? Have they gone rouge? Have their hearts hardened? What if they have other ways of feeling very close to Allah? Has that no worth in comparison to doing the namaz?Peace and best regards.
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For me the big trouble with assalat, for not being "effective" , that is to give results, is not to understnd it as prayer or tht people are defective. Of course people are defective, they are always going to be, if people waited to be undefective they would never pray or do as-salat or do anything.
For me the problem is the collective feeling. And for those who have studied the matter as set in the Qur'an more than I, which is just about anybody here, I would like to ask them if it is stated clearly and as an obligation to do it collectively, always or as much as one can. Or is it the development of fiqh and a political "islam" what rendered it a collective duty like forming ranks to fight the oppresor.
I do not have anything against the collective aspect, provided the "collection" is adequately minded and goes in the same spirit, if not, it just like partaking in a show.
My feeling is that as-salat may be prayer or deep meditation, getting down to brass tacks of who and what one is and whose one is and what one owes to one's Rabb and God. That is praise the subject of one devotion, become conscious, for oneself, not for the public. I think anything that is not the deep introspection and devotion to Reality, to the really Existent, anything that pulls one into the worldly should be avoided. Rituals, if there are any should help to that concentration and not distract from it. And it must be sincere, however imperfect it maybe, sincere, inwards, not outwards. Otherwise we might be thinking of the fact that we are seen by the world.
I wonder in fact if masjids have not been turned in political centers where the masses can be manipulated at will, the herd kept in line. I know that historically they were centers of learning too. That would be an aspect, the other, then, like churches. The place where you get reprimanded by someone authorized to do so, when non egalitarian.
Salaam
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I think anything that is not the deep introspection and devotion to Reality, to the really Existent, anything that pulls one into the worldly should be avoided. Rituals, if there are any should help to that concentration and not distract from it. And it must be sincere, however imperfect it maybe, sincere, inwards, not outwards. Otherwise we might be thinking of the fact that we are seen by the world.
Namaz doesn't allow for the deep meditative introspection, because you have a script you must keep your mind on all the time. You must say the right words, do the right physical motions, the right number of times... and for this your brain must remain in the beta-wave frequency. Also, we cannot say that we'll end up getting so good at it that we no longer have to think about the movements. It doesn't work that way. Yes, we can go through one set of motion, like one bow, or one gear shifting in the car, or one tooth brush session, without thinking... but this works only because there is no counting required. When you totally lose yourself doing something, when you get into flow, then the time aspect disappears from your awareness, and hence you won't be able to keep track of how many times you've done something. Also, if you're in a group, you'll definitely not be able to keep up with the pace if your in a deep meditative flow. In a group, part of your mind is always on the other group members and the leader, or else people wouldn't be able to do the motions synchronically.
Additionally, I personally believe that most people are conscious about how they look during the group prayer, to some extent at least. This is because there are such strict regulations on how to hold your hands, how to bend the body, how to hold and move the index finger, how to fold the feet, how to move the head.. etc. Nobody wants to deviate from the group. This is an extremely powerful motivator for our survival brain. We'd rather die than be excommunicated (or so the survival brain feels at least). So when being conscious about this, there won't being deep state of contemplation for sure. But of course, you can get really good at the correct form, making it a habit, but I'm sure most people still have part of their mind checking it now and then. And unfortunately, I don't think people really are concerned with what Allah thinks about the physical form of their namaz, but rather they're concerned about what their fellow namaz doers would see.
At best you can execute some thoughts of genuine gratitude during the namaz, but other than that... it's mostly role play.
I think we generally need to think more about the purpose of the salat, and what effects it is supposed to have, and not get caught up in assumptions about it's form. Form is not the essence... outcome is the essence.
Peace and best regards
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Peace All.
Sometimes we try too hard with thinking, instead of reflecting and listening,when the issue is "our trial. Perhaps we need to say to GOD we "hear and obey"?
How clever are we? Who gave us our cleverness? What is the purpose of our lives?
GOD has granted us our choice to come here to this life and try and redeem ourselves. Whether we like it or not, we are being tried?
To help us HE has sent instructions/commands/scriptures and messengers to deliver HIS message.
Are we not expected to work hard to earn our salvation? Are we expecting our cleverness to save us?
GOD s system is spelled out in.
Ignoring this clear system issued by God, and hanging on our personal wishes to find all the details of our rituals in Qoran only reflects our disbelief in Qoran itself, the lack of trust in its divinity, and the lack of trust in God and His systems.
Indeed, Qoran is complete and fully detailed. Part of its complete details is the above system of inheriting our rites from Abraham.
Either we believe in it or we choose to be with those who take the word of God partially and conditionally. Do they believe in part of the scripture and ignore other parts?
GOD taught Abraham how to observe Salat, Abraham taught his children/believers... and so on...
GOD renews his message when He sees the need and the right time. He is fully aware of what was corrupted and what was not!
GOD also sends messengers to clarify for us.
Those who received the scripture rejoice in what was revealed to you; some others may reject parts of it. Say, "I am simply enjoined to worship God, and never associate any idols with Him. I invite to Him, and to Him is my ultimate destiny."
We revealed these laws in Arabic, and if you ever acquiesce to their wishes, after this knowledge has come to you, you will have no ally, nor a protector, against God.
We will deal with the dividers.
They accept the Quran only partially.
By your Lord, we will question them all,
about everything they have done.
Therefore, carry out the orders given to you, and disregard the idol worshipersGOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Namaz doesn't allow for the deep meditative introspection, because you have a script you must keep your mind on all the time. You must say the right words, do the right physical motions, the right number of times... and for this your brain must remain in the beta-wave frequency. Also, we cannot say that we'll end up getting so good at it that we no longer have to think about the movements. It doesn't work that way. Yes, we can go through one set of motion, like one bow, or one gear shifting in the car, or one tooth brush session, without thinking... but this works only because there is no counting required. When you totally lose yourself doing something, when you get into flow, then the time aspect disappears from your awareness, and hence you won't be able to keep track of how many times you've done something. Also, if you're in a group, you'll definitely not be able to keep up with the pace if your in a deep meditative flow. In a group, part of your mind is always on the other group members and the leader, or else people wouldn't be able to do the motions synchronically.
Additionally, I personally believe that most people are conscious about how they look during the group prayer, to some extent at least. This is because there are such strict regulations on how to hold your hands, how to bend the body, how to hold and move the index finger, how to fold the feet, how to move the head.. etc. Nobody wants to deviate from the group. This is an extremely powerful motivator for our survival brain. We'd rather die than be excommunicated (or so the survival brain feels at least). So when being conscious about this, there won't being deep state of contemplation for sure. But of course, you can get really good at the correct form, making it a habit, but I'm sure most people still have part of their mind checking it now and then. And unfortunately, I don't think people really are concerned with what Allah thinks about the physical form of their namaz, but rather they're concerned about what their fellow namaz doers would see.
At best you can execute some thoughts of genuine gratitude during the namaz, but other than that... it's mostly role play.
I think we generally need to think more about the purpose of the salat, and what effects it is supposed to have, and not get caught up in assumptions about it's form. Form is not the essence... outcome is the essence.
Peace and best regards
Mostly I would agree with you, but I know by experience that some rituals, properly led by someone capable can in fact make that in fact while being in a group you get all that the sister good logic has described and in a sense that I meant and then the collective is really a communion. It is not like pushing a button, but many times it works, but only where spirituality is master and above all the person who leads knows what she or he is doing, which of course must not be easy.
I usually do go to any masjid. I am not going to submit to the head covered thing and I do not want to go through disagreeable moments. I have gone through plenty of those through my life and now I do not care for that. Some women I know who are against the veil, that is against its imposition can, go through the trade in of puting a scarf to be able to mis in it. I can't and I do not want to. Worshipping God is not joining a club and comebody pointing at your way of clothing in a masjid is a spit on the Qur'an. In fact that would cofirm that I would be there to conform and not wo worship with the worshippers. That is again the club mind. You my believe and all that but here what counts is that you observe the club's etiquette.
But when I have been in places where that self conciousness about appearance was absent I have had really fulfilling momentos of communion with other people, men and women and indeed it is a great thing. But as I say it is not the most common.
Salaam
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Peace huruf,
Salat, the way as you know I understand it, might involve prayer or calling unto The Master, but it is the only part of the practice and it has a wider meaning. It is yet the desire to stay on the assembly of God and not dividing into sects and the unity with God is mandatory to keep it that way because men and women are, as you may already know, very prone to succumb to conjecture.
But if a person, possibly a cleric, was to yusallah, ie "recruit" someone to the assembly of God then they teach about the right things about the faith meaning the command, decree and judgment of God. To remain heedful of this union then we must work to keep it too thus "maintain salat" or else we may listen to the temptations of the evil one. Gathering as an assembly in a house of God is a good way of keeping the unity since we can keep focused and "on topic" and, God willing, the cleric or mumin is in close connection to God to provide wisdom.
So indirectly salat can be prayer even if the word does not imply that meaning because you will likely pray together with the assembly as you gather together as a unit. Imploring in unity on a mutual goal is probably one of the finest shows of the good of the assembly. There are examples of group prayers (who use dua) by people in the recitation who do not parrot sentences but say something as a group rather than individually. They may as well been gathered in a house of God when uttering the words.
But stereotypically reciting the same passages seem redundant and I would suspect that God is driven crazy if God would have been a man. Traditional "Muslims" recite the same chapter (alfatiah) up to 4 times as if God hears them because of their many words.
God bless you
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?How many times would you say "I love you" and words of endearment to a person you love? I think we repeat always ourselves very much when we are attached to them, when they are dear to us, when we admire them. We do repeat ourselves out of affection for the person, and it does not get boring unless one of them feel no longer the same.
So, I do not think that the trouble is repetition. The trouble is lack of concentration. Would I get tired of saying Huwa Allaho ahad, allahu samad... I do not think so, it is such a shoot of hope and certainty... Repeating like parrots may be a waste of time, but turn back to the one who cares for us and loves us... For God everything is a repetition, more than that, a repetition of hE Himself. What new can you tell Him? The last gossip about the director of the International Monetary Fund? Well I think He alikes humour, so might work...
Salaam
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Peace Jane.
GOD sends scriptures and messengers for our salvation.
How / Why/what /when/... are up to us to sort out. Also we need to sort out our priorities?
Yes, it is about what the GOD really wants and means ,not about what we want!Thanks. I am of the opinion nowadays that what we want, as in our true desires from our higher self are actually what the God wants for us; it is just sometimes we confuse our ego desire with our true desire.
Ego desire being mainly to 'fit in' with others or to somehow comfort ourselves vs. what we know deep down is best for us.
When we follow our ego desire rather than our true i.e. God's desire, then we are 'off course' and the test is to reject this and to follow our true desire again so that we are in alignment again.
I think the satan takes us away from the God by tricking us into rejecting what our true desires are...
Peace.
sun
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Peace huruf,
Well. The exact number of sets of prostration and same repetition of recitation will hardly bring more guidance than to the one that is more modest and read a simple prayer out of glorification to their Master and whose faith is very strong. God knows what is in our hearts you know.
I still feel as if they think their prayer is heard because of their many words.
It is much different if a person bursts out and repeated "I love you God, I love you God, I love you God", because that is an honest expression of that feeling at that moment.
Reading al-fatiah is actually a prayer and they read it up to four times in the same ritualistic movement as if it will come true extra much if they repeat it several times.
That they often read chapters with qul (say) command is also fascinating because they are (often) directed towards people who do not hear you when you utter those words.
I still feel it is parroting passages with not much reflection of what they actually say.
In many sectarian contexts it is further fascinating because there they seem to take the Arabic language as kind of magical that you need to recite whole Quran even if you have no clue of what it says. Then you begin taking idols other than God in my opinion.
God bless you