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  4. Resolve the confusion--pronoun in 16:66 and 23:21

Resolve the confusion--pronoun in 16:66 and 23:21

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  • C Offline
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    cleanfox5982
    wrote on last edited by
    #72

    But what I have pointed out is different; the masculine pronoun in the complex sentence will refer to masculine Milk, since that is there in accusative case as Tameez. Today we know the Milk has its own Batoon milk fat globules.

    Salam ,
    I see u'r point .

    The milk is included in the (h) in ( butunihi ) but the masculin form at the end of ( butunihi ) does not Come form the milk but from the singularity of the whole .

    Let me explain

    The pronom (h) in ( butunihi ) is referring to AL-an"aam , from deep approch the bounded ( h ) is refereeing to the whole of something , like madrassah , the bounded ( h ) at the ended of the word deeply refer to the ensemble or the whole of that thing .

    Madrassah school ,is it plural or singular ? is it one thing or a lot of things combined ? In a school there is walls , rooms , teachers , students ..etc , So there is plurality in there and the (h) at the end is pointing to the whole of that plurality combined , so it become singular as they form one unified undivided thing. I am referring by this that the (h) in ( butunihi ) is referring to the whole that is included in the word AL-an"aam ( their stomach , the milk , their bodies , their horn ..etc) , so the milk is automatically included.

    The rule you are pointing to does exist in the Qur'aan , These are other tips about the concept of masculinizing of femminizing verbs Or nons

    The word (al-shafa"aa ) is mostly used in Qur'aan and basic Arabic in feminine form , but here we can see that it's masculinezed in some cases , look to the following

    2/48
    ( &nbsp

    Notice the verb ( laa yuqbal &#1604 , he is in masculin form , if it was feminized the verve would be ( Laa tuqbal &#1604

    in the same verse when talking about the same word (al-shafa"aa ) he said

    2/123
    ( )

    ( laa tanfa"uhaa &#1575 ,notice the verb is in feminine form , if it was masculinezed it would say ( laa yanfa"uhaa &#1575

    In another verses the verb pointing to (al-shafa"aa ) is feminized

    36/23
    ( )

    53/26

    ( {26}).

    Notice the Verb ( Laa tughni &#1606 , he is in feminine form , if he was in masculin , should say ( Laa yughni &#1606

    So why the Verbs pointing to the same word (al-shafa"aa ) was masculinezed in 2/48 and femminzed in 2/123 , 36/23 , 53/26 ?

    As I mentioned in late post , in basic Arabic when a word do not have real opposit sex it can wither femminzed or masculinezed as per the context of the sentence and the meaning , in our case the word (al-shafa"aa ) is not real feminine word ( &#1610 because does not have real opposite sex , so in this case there is no grammatical problem.

    But why it was masculinezed in 2/48

    Because the meaning was directing the audience to the one who will intercede (Al-shafi" &#1593 not the ( intersection ) itself , and the intercedor is , so the Verbe was masculinezed .

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      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #73

      Thanks, Alkitab.

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      • B Offline
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        Bender
        wrote on last edited by
        #74

        How naively you ignore that Arabic word for Arabic http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif means Language of sons of soil of Arabian peninsula.

        http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif It is a noun termed as Relative Adjective . It is a noun having a consonant "Yaa- " suffixed to its ending which indicates its relation to the noun from which it is derived. Thus, a unique feature of this language is that it defines the identity of its own people the language of the sons of soil of Arabian peninsula; the language of the land that hosts the "House of Allah" on the Earth; and the universal leader of humanity, the Last Messenger of Allah the Exalted, Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam. This was the first language employed for teaching the First Man; and lately for the final teaching of knowledge and wisdom to the humanity universally through the ONLY teacher in timeline Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam.

        It is an acknowledged fact that the Arabic, the mother tongue of the elevated universal Messenger Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam, became a prestigious language in the world after he recited and transcribed in writing the Grand Qur'aan

        http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.97.gif
        http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.97a.gif
        http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.97b.gif
        Thereby, for reason of its universality and permanence, We have certainly rendered it Grand Qur'aan easy, open and facilitative for reading and comprehension by transcribing it in the mother tongue Arabic language of you Muhammad .

        The purpose of its facilitative rendering is that you the Messenger might give glad tidings-guarantee on the strength of this Grand Qur'aan to those who endeavor to remain cautious and avoid conduct inspired and governed by emotion in reverence and fear of Allah the Exalted;

        And so that you the Messenger may admonish, with this Grand Qur'aan, the excessively argumentative people.

        Language of Grand Qur'aan

        Salaam,

        Some of your posts it is almost impossible to reply to, this is one of them.

        Salaam,
        Bender

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          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #75

          Salaam,

          Some of your posts it is almost impossible to reply to, this is one of them.

          Salaam,
          Bender

          Merely try to understand that Grand Qur'aan is written in the language of a people; and its language is also associated to the Messenger sas in the discourse. Ponder why it is emphasized that its language is Arabic to get answer to your own observation for which Ayas was posted.

          Quote
          Sure, but the non-native language here is the text of The Quran, not the arabic of the arabs.

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          • B Offline
            B Offline
            Bender
            wrote on last edited by
            #76

            Merely try to understand that Grand Qur'aan is written in the language of a people; and its language is also associated to the Messenger sas in the discourse. Ponder why it is emphasized that its language is Arabic to get answer to your own observation for which Ayas was posted.

            Salaam,

            I think I need to work on my imagination to see the invisible e things you see.

            Salaam,
            Bender

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            • M Offline
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              Mazhar
              wrote on last edited by
              #77

              Salaam,

              I think I need to work on my imagination to see the invisible e things you see.

              Salaam,
              Bender

              I don't waste my time to see the invisible through imaginative-hallucination; I see the words of the Book that mirror every reality, visible and invisible because I accept the Book is written in human language.

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                Man_of_Faith
                wrote on last edited by
                #78

                By a divine author.

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                  Mazhar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #79

                  By a divine author.

                  Ofcourse, but rendering it in Arabic and strictly according to its rules, otherwise communication becomes faulty and unitelligible for audience defeating the very purpose of communication.

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                  • M Offline
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                    Man_of_Faith
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #80

                    It is difficult enough to interpret it by the original Arabic let alone find a translation that makes sense because you need to form entirely different sentences sometimes or you get stuck in translation. So it is double work and oftentimes you are more focused on the substance of the original language than giving perfect English renditions. I rather have the right interpretation of the original script and its words first of all.

                    Even if I form awkward sentences the smart guy can just put them in the right order because it is hard to think of two languages at the same time. Getting the correct literal translation is the most important step, first. And if you just make a first draft and first just brainstorm everything and get it out in a decent first translation, you can just use what you have and work on moving letters and vice versa around until it makes better sense and change necessary help words or rephrasing, as long as it does not change the meaning. Not add any words of implicit meaning that would change the literal interpretation.

                    Peace

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                    • M Offline
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                      Mazhar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #81

                      One should never forget Arabic is a pro-drop language. Its prepositional phrases show to the critical reader, who is aware of grammar rules, what is elided. Word by word translation for Arabic is the choice of those who know not Arabic.

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                        mmkhan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #82

                        Salam,
                        Both the words are different. See their morphology.

                        Salaam,

                        Sorry I disagree. It came from the same root.


                        A3in-Raa-Baa - Raa-Seen-Laam


                        You cannot say RuSuLan is a different word and not belong to the root of RaSooL.

                        May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                        mmKhan

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                          Mazhar
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #83

                          Salaam,

                          Sorry I disagree. It came from the same root.


                          A3in-Raa-Baa - Raa-Seen-Laam


                          You cannot say RuSuLan is a different word and not belong to the root of RaSooL.

                          May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                          mmKhan

                          Sorry, this is no comparison in morphology.

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                            Man_of_Faith
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #84

                            One should never forget Arabic is a pro-drop language. Its prepositional phrases show to the critical reader, who is aware of grammar rules, what is elided. Word by word translation for Arabic is the choice of those who know not Arabic.

                            Who said anything about word-by-word interpretation. Anyway it is a way to learn at first. Affixes and prepositions etc are important for the Arabic language, that is true, but it does not matter if the grammatical rules that you use are wrong. What I meant is that Arabic sentence design is very different from English, for example, and when you read it you "think" in a different way. It becomes a different order. This is essential to remember when you attempt to make a translation.

                            English is a pro-drop language, and it drops the pronouns way more frequently than Arabic. In fact I feel that Arabic actually keeps pronouns very often to the extent it sounds dull in English if you directly translate it. In this manner Arabic can on the other hand feel more exact and non-misunderstandable, as long as you use the proper grammar rules. By all means it depends on the speaker of the language really. Some people speak it lazily and drop certain words because it is more comfortable. Just watch the transformation of the English language.

                            Have faith

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                              Mazhar
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #85

                              Who said anything about word-by-word interpretation. Anyway it is a way to learn at first. Affixes and prepositions etc are important for the Arabic language, that is true, but it does not matter if the grammatical rules that you use are wrong. What I meant is that Arabic sentence design is very different from English, for example, and when you read it you "think" in a different way. It becomes a different order. This is essential to remember when you attempt to make a translation.

                              English is a pro-drop language, and it drops the pronouns way more frequently than Arabic. In fact I feel that Arabic actually keeps pronouns very often to the extent it sounds dull in English if you directly translate it. In this manner Arabic can on the other hand feel more exact and non-misunderstandable, as long as you use the proper grammar rules. By all means it depends on the speaker of the language really. Some people speak it lazily and drop certain words because it is more comfortable. Just watch the transformation of the English language.

                              Have faith

                              From MOF; It is a pleasant post to me.

                              The word order in sentences of English and Arabic has variations but it does not mean that both languages have different types of sentences, either by structure or meaning. First step is to recognize a sentence, its beginning and end since unlike English it has no stop signs. Translation will be in two steps; after morphological parsing and after syntactical parsing . Most of available translations were done only by following first process, thereby, they had blurred or distorted perceptions.

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                                Man_of_Faith
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #86

                                The lack of punctuation is clearly a big disadvantage for the interpretation. And sometimes passages cut the same context into many fragments so it is confusing to read. It is at least a sign to me that some ignorant person sat down and fragmented the discourse into passages.

                                Peace

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                                  Mazhar
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #87

                                  The lack of punctuation is clearly a big disadvantage for the interpretation. And sometimes passages cut the same context into many fragments so it is confusing to read. It is at least a sign to me that some ignorant person sat down and fragmented the discourse into passages.

                                  Peace

                                  The "puntuation" in Arabic of Qur'aan is the best world over. The only difference is that it does not have separate marks but case endings are the tool for puntuation which leave no room for incorrect interpretation when both morphological and syntactical processes are employed for analysis.

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                                    Man_of_Faith
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #88

                                    As long as you know the language, that works well, yes.

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                                      mmkhan
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #89

                                      Sorry, this is no comparison in morphology.

                                      Salaam,

                                      Well, so how will you define morphology in and .
                                      Can you please clarify? Thanks.

                                      May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                                      mmKhan

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                                        Mazhar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #90

                                        Salaam,

                                        o

                                        Well, so how will you define morphology in and .
                                        Can you please clarify? Thanks.

                                        May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                                        mmKhan

                                        Both are broken plurals; one feminine and the other masculine. The issue was with relation to relative adjective http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif. Rasulun does not have relative adjective.

                                        You can read about Relative adjective in any grammar book.

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                                          mmkhan
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #91

                                          Both are broken plurals; one feminine and the other masculine. The issue was with relation to relative adjective http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif. Rasulun does not have relative adjective.

                                          You can read about Relative adjective in any grammar book.

                                          Salaam,

                                          It was not rAsulUn but it was rUsUlAn.

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