What is the Qur'ans stance on homosexuality?
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I understand that the verses on homosexuality are in reference to Lut's people. Before I cite those, I want to state that at the present moment, I am unequivocally against homophobia. I don't believe homosexuality can be considered sinful under the understanding that it is not a personal choice. After studying some developmental psychology and reading papers on homosexuality, I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not, by any means, a personal choice. Based on current scientific literature, it is not even linked to upbringing. There has long been established a hereditary link; the current progress is discovering a causal link by means of epigenetics.
If anyone believes homosexuality is a choice, please provide for me scientific, peer-reviewed, scholarly articles/journals/papers that demonstrate unequivocal evidence for this.
Now, moving on to the Qur'an, here is what we find
778 The earthquake took them, thus they became lifeless in their home.
779 Thus he turned away from them, and said "My people, I have delivered to you the message of my Lord and advised you; but you do not like the advisers."
780 And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"
781 "You are approaching the men out of desire instead of the women! Indeed, you are a transgressing people."
782 The only response of his people was "Drive them out of your town; they are a people who wish to be pure!"
783 We saved him and his family, except for his wife; she was of those who were destroyed.
784 And We rained down upon them a rain, so see how was the punishment for the criminals.1177 And when Our messengers came to Lot, he was grieved by them and he felt discomfort for them and he said "This is a distressful day."
1178 And his people came rushing towards him, and before it they were committing sin, he said "My people, these are my daughters, they are purer for you, so be aware of God and do not disgrace me regarding my guests. Is there no wise man among you?"
1179 They said "You know we have no interest in your daughters, and you are aware of what we want!"
1180 He said "If only I had strength against you, or I could find for myself some powerful support."
1181 They said "O Lot, we are messengers of your Lord; they will not be able to harm you, so travel with your family during the cover of the night and let not any of you look back except for your wife, she will be afflicted with what they will be afflicted. Their scheduled time will be the morning. Is the morning not near?"
1182 So when Our command came, We made its highest part become its lowest, and We rained on it with hardened fiery projectiles.
1183 Marked from your Lord, and they are never far from the wicked.
1184 And to Midyan was their brother Shu'ayb, he said "My people, serve God, you have no god besides Him, and do not give short in the measure and the weight. I see you in prosperity, and I fear for you the retribution of a day that is surrounding."26160 The people of Lot denied the messengers.
26161 For their brother Lot said to them "Will you not be righteous?"
26162 "I am to you a trustworthy messenger."
26163 "So be aware of God and obey me."
26164 "And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds."
26165 "Do you approach the males of the worlds?"
26166 "And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!"
26167 They said "If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those driven out."
26168 He said "I am in severe opposition to your acts!"
26169 "My Lord, save me and my family from what they do."
26170 So We saved him and his entire family.
26171 Except for an old woman who remained.
26172 Then We destroyed the others.
26173 And We rained upon them a rain. Miserable was the rain to those who had been warned.
26174 In that is a sign, but most of them are not believers.
26175 And that your Lord is the Noble, the Merciful.2928 And Lot, when he said to his people "You commit a lewdness that no others in the world have done before!"
2929 "You sexually approach men, and you commit highway robbery, and you bring all vice to your society." But the only response from his people was to say "Bring us the retribution of God, if you are being truthful!"
2930 He said "My Lord, grant me victory over the wicked people."
2931 And when Our messengers came to Abraham with good news, they said "We are to destroy the people of such a town, for its people have been wicked."
2932 He said "But Lot is in it!" They said "We are fully aware of who is in it. We will save him and his family, except his wife; she is of those doomed."
2933 And when Our messengers came to Lot, they were mistreated, and he was embarrassed towards them. And they said "Do not fear, and do not be saddened. We will save you and your family, except for your wife; she is of those doomed."
2934 "We will send down upon the people of this town an affliction from the heaven for what wickedness they were in."
2935 And We left remains of it as a clear sign for a people who comprehend.Thoughts? I really need clarification on this topic.
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Definitely, for some people homosexuality is a choice, for others it is not. For others it may not be a choice but there is a strong conditioning for it. I think it is a gross error to put all that today is called homosexuality under the same blanket. Just as it would be an error to put heterosexuality under the same blanket.
It is not a choice for some because they cannot bring themselves to like the opposite sex no matter what they do. It may be an emotional question or a biological question. But many homosexual males become homosexual, they have been attracted to women alright, but choose to have relationships with men.
I think that the concept of "homosexual" such as is used today is not reallyscientifical. It covers many different things defining them, or classifying them by a symptom, not by their genesis, that being so to classify all of them morally in a bunch is not accurate not conducive to anything useful.
Salaam
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I don't believe homosexuality can be considered sinful under the understanding that it is not a personal choice.
Even if it is not a personal choice, but it still involves a desire.
Now... when a desire is not in harmony with God's design, whether we will still insist to follow such desire?
I feel tired for this topic... (
I suppose this "homosexuality" discussion usually endless and meet no agreement.
Everyone has their own opinions. People can use their own arguments to back up their own opinions.
It seems happen again and again... perhaps until we all die.
However, maybe things could change if one day our Lord grants new messenger, someone who is able to explain (clearly) to us the actual meanings of the messages of the Qur'an.
Related with homosexuality, my personal stance is more focus on this question
Does God favor (support) same-sex marriage among human?
My answer is
No. I don't think Allah (the Creator) supports marriage (legal sexual relationship) between people of the same gender.
If there are two men who love (have desire for) each other but can hold themselves from any lewdness (especially from having sex), then I don't think they are guilty in this case.
For anyone who think that Qur'an does not forbid same sex marriage, I suggest they also ponder the answer of my question above
Does God favor (support) same-sex marriage among human?
Or, the other similar question.
Do you think that God (your Creator) agree if you (human) have sex with someone of your own gender?
If you still think that God will favor (agree with) it, then I suppose I better... -X
Salm.
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Definitely, for some people homosexuality is a choice, for others it is not. For others it may not be a choice but there is a strong conditioning for it. I think it is a gross error to put all that today is called homosexuality under the same blanket. Just as it would be an error to put heterosexuality under the same blanket.
It is not a choice for some because they cannot bring themselves to like the opposite sex no matter what they do. It may be an emotional question or a biological question. But many homosexual males become homosexual, they have been attracted to women alright, but choose to have relationships with men.
I think that the concept of "homosexual" such as is used today is not reallyscientifical. It covers many different things defining them, or classifying them by a symptom, not by their genesis, that being so to classify all of them morally in a bunch is not accurate not conducive to anything useful.
Salaam
Walaykum assalam,
Do you have evidence to support the statement that homosexualitiy is a choice for some people? As per the blanketing concept homosexuality involves the sexual attraction to a person of the same sex. It may manifest in different forms and present on a spectrum in a variety of ways, but it is still fundamentally the same thing. I am speaking about the fundamental pretense attraction to the same sex. Do we have any evidence to suggest that it is a personal choice?
I am speaking about the objective, operational definition of homosexuality as in attraction to the same sex. I don't want us to get distracted with a discussion on semantics, so let's focus strictly on attraction to the same sex.
Even if it is not a personal choice, but it still involves a desire.
Now... when a desire is not in harmony with God's design, whether we will still insist to follow such desire?
I feel tired for this topic...
I suppose this "homosexuality" discussion usually endless and meet no agreement.
Everyone has their own opinions. People can use their own arguments to back up their own opinions.
Let's not diminish the significance of this topic; I think it's very important to discuss as I don't wish to dehumanize our fellow brothers and sisters who are too often alienated in faith. Empathy can help us be more sensitive imagine how it must feel to think that your biology, over which you have no control, has forced you into a state of severe sin. It doesn't seem right. Therefore, let's try to show some courtesy in understanding the roots of homosexuality before we come to any strict judgments. Furthermore, we should always be patient in our discussions. To be precise, I am not interested in opinions on this matter. I am interested in facts. This is why I am requesting scientific, peer-reviewed, scholarly literature on homosexuality. We will all benefit greatly in our understanding if we seek knowledge, not opinion.
I am fully aware that homosexuality involves a desire, as does heterosexuality. This desire, however, is not our personal choice, so how can we be held accountable for what we cannot control? I want to bring up a separate example of a breach of morality with respect to desire which will hopefully help us understand the spectrum better
In 1966, a graduate student in Austin, Texas began complaining about difficulty in concentrating on daily tasks. Eventually he could not concentrate on even basic things, and he began experiencing irrational desires that he could not understand. Among these desires was the desire to kill his wife. In a letter he wrote, he stated that he was having difficulty concentrating on simple tasks, and he had this desire to kill his wife, though he had no idea why. In fact, he loved her very much and he stated that she was the best wife anyone could ask for, so he had no clue as to why he had this impulsive desire to kill her. That night, he did, in fact, kill her. Then he killed his mother, and the next day he went to the top of the tower in the middle of his campus and began a shooting rampage until he was eventually shot down by police.
In the letter he wrote the day before, he requested that an autopsy be performed on him to find any abnormalities in his brain. Lo and behold, after an autopsy, a tumor was found pressing against the basal ganglia in his brain. The tumor was found to conceivably be responsible for his inability to control his actions and emotions.
Now of course, it is a universal moral understanding that murder is a gross sin, one of the worst that one can commit. However, I humbly request those of you who took the time to read the example of Charles Whitman to take a step back and realize that there are exceptions to certain constructs. Can you honestly and justly place a judgment on Charles Whitman for his murders with the knowledge we now have of how he himself was a victim and an outsider of his own actions, just as much the people he shot were victims?
Think about this when you ask the question of homosexuality, but be careful by no means am I equating any magnitudes, as arbitrary as they may be, of homosexuality and murder. I am simply highlighting an example in which we see a wrong action which would otherwise be written off easily as "sin," but given the context, we realize Allah knows best, and we should use our God-given minds to be rational and logical, and use our God-given hearts to be empathetic and courteous.
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Just to reiterate again I am requesting evidence to suggest that homosexuality is a personal choice.
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I am fully aware that homosexuality involves a desire, as does heterosexuality. This desire, however, is not our personal choice, so how can we be held accountable for what we cannot control?
Of course we can control our desires.... at least I think most of normal people can control their desires.
Whether you cannot control your own desires?
Salm.
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Of course we can control our desires.... at least I think most of normal people can control their desires.
Whether you cannot control your own desires?
Salm.
How do you define normal? It seems you are dehumanizing homosexuals in this comment, unless I am interpreting incorrectly. It is the dehumanization and the dismissive attitude that upsets me most. "Their biology is different from the majority, so they must be abnormal." Should we say the same thing about people who are left-handed?
Wasalaam.
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Of course we can control our desires.... at least I think most of normal people can control their desires.
Whether you cannot control your own desires?
Salm.
Sorry to add another post, I wanted to say something more. The issue with Charles Whitman was a physical anomaly in his brain. As for homosexuality? Well, I found something interesting here
"Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.
The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.
The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden."
Will we dehumanize our brothers and sisters for their biology, especially when their sexual orientation doesn't pose any more of a threat to others than our own? Are we considering their biology a sin and saying that they are not permitted to have sexual relationships?
I can understand that homosexual acts are not in accordance with reproduction, for example. I am interested in the psychological components, and how we religious folk treat homosexuals so terribly. I wonder how difficult it must be to be born a gay/lesbian in a muslim household, or a christian household, or a jewish household, where not only are family members unaccepting of their natural biology, but they are taught that even their God is unaccepting of their natural biology.
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How do you define normal?
Human is not perfect, but I suppose everyone who can still use his/her brain (and most of organs and most of body parts) is normal.
InshaAllah, I am normal, I feel quite normal at least.
Do you think you're normal?
If you feel that you're normal, do you able to control your desires, then?
Also, did you read the example of Charles Whitman?
Does everyone have the similar tumor as him?
Salm.
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Human is not perfect, but I suppose everyone who can still use his/her brain (and most of organs and most of body parts) is normal.
InshaAllah, I am normal, I feel quite normal at least.
Do you think you're normal?
If you feel that you're normal, do you able to control your desires, then?
Does everyone have the similar tumor as him?
Salm.
Please reread my replies as I made some modifications to them.
I think you are asking the wrong questions. I am not making a case for whether or not I am normal, I am seeking operational definitions for the constructs we are discussing here.
Do you consider homosexuals as "abnormal?" Based on what you said, homosexuals are also normal. Why should they be prevented from acting upon normal desires? We should be specific now there is lewdness that can be committed by homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. What we should analyze is what can be classified as "lewdness?" I think we would both agree that adultery falls under the category of lewdness. What else? Sexual relations with a member of the same sex I believe you would consider "lewdness." But why, other than something like "it's not part of God's design." What are some rationalities behind considering sexual relations with a member of the same sex lewd?
I want to put some attention on the following verse
2928 And Lot, when he said to his people "You commit a lewdness that no others in the world have done before!"
This verse suggests that the lewdness committed by the people of Lot had never been committed by a people before. There is evidence of homosexuality, however, existing before the people of Lot. So what can we gather from this verse? Was there something more than just homosexuality at play here?
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By the way JavaLatte, I apologize for making edits to my posts. I also don't intend to come off as hostile or antagonistic; it's difficult to express a proper "tone" in just words for me. I am sincerely just looking for answers on a topic that has frustrated me for quite some time, and I am most grateful for your replies and your insights.
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Will we dehumanize our brothers and sisters for their biology, especially when their sexual orientation doesn't pose any more of a threat to others than our own?
Perhaps it is you who dehumanize them if you think that they cannot control their desires.
Are we considering their biology a sin
confused
and saying that they are not permitted to have sexual relationships?
I believe that my Lord does not favor it (sex between humans of the same gender), period.
Do you want to take my right to express my own belief?
Do you think I will go around to curse gay people? nope
I suppose you can believe in what you want, brother.
What I don't understand is, why people like you seem so eager to find arguments from the Qur'an to support homosexuality?
Why? What for?
Do you feel relief if Qur'an does not forbid homosexuality?
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Perhaps it is you who dehumanize them if you think that they cannot control their desires.
I said they cannot control which desires they have, I never implied that they cannot control their behavior in relation to their desires. To put it simply, "they" cannot control what "their" desires are, but "they" can control their actions to the similar degree that "we" can. You are putting words in my mouth. I am illustrating the point that their desires are, based on what I know so far, not lewd. I cannot categorize all homosexual acts as lewd the same way I cannot categorize all heterosexual acts as lewd.
I just believe that my Lord does not favor it, period.
Do you want to take my right to express my own belief?
Do you think I will go around to curse gay people? nope
I suppose you can believe in what you want, brother.
What I don't understand is, why people like you seem so eager to find arguments from the Qur'an to support homosexuality?
Why? What for?
Do you feel relief if Qur'an does not forbid homosexuality?
Did I take your right away to express your own belief? I started this topic seeking scientific arguments regarding homosexuality, not opinions. I don't want to keep you from expressing your beliefs, but opinions are not the subject of this thread. The rest of your questions are just putting words in my mouth.
Why are you being so dismissive towards me and "people like me?" I have no agenda other than finding truth, and if I find a discrepancy between logic, reasoning, and justice and the system I adhere to, then I will have to reassess my positions. I don't want to have a closed mind and I want to continue researching the truth.
Do you think it's right how so many religious people tend to treat homosexuals? We may outwardly say with insincere words that we don't care how they live, or we don't think they are "bad," etc., but in our hearts we believe they are vile. Every religious person I speak to with respect to homosexuality always writes "them" off as if they are not human beings.
I feel relief if I know the system I adhere to respects human beings in a just manner. I feel relief if I know the book I have put my trust in is beneficent towards those who are born in a way they cannot help, especially when they aren't hurting anyone else by their biological nature.
You don't understand why I want to find arguments supporting homosexuality. It isn't that I'm particularly looking for arguments supporting it; I don't really care for homosexuality itself. I simply care about my fellow human beings, whether they are small or large in number. The dismissive attitude towards them makes me quite sad.
If you want some simple statement I wonder how terrible it must feel to be created by Allah the way you are and then told that your nature is sinful.
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Also, I still hope to get a reply regarding the following
I want to put some attention on the following verse
2928 And Lot, when he said to his people "You commit a lewdness that no others in the world have done before!"
This verse suggests that the lewdness committed by the people of Lot had never been committed by a people before. There is evidence of homosexuality, however, existing before the people of Lot. So what can we gather from this verse? Was there something more than just homosexuality at play here?
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@ bilalqureshi21
Check your PM. Salm.
Walaykum assalam, dear sister. For anyone else reading this thread, forgive me for my seemingly hostile mannerisms. I have difficulty expressing a soft tone of humility when I write my thoughts on paper, or in this case, on a screen. Therefore, a lot of my words can be read in rather aggressive manners, and I don't intend that at all. It is a fault of my vernacular which I hope to address as soon as possible.
The reason I am interested in the question of homosexuality transcends the isolated case of sexual attraction. Rather, I am interested in the psychological implications of being dismissed as a creature whose sexual desires are considered holistically vile. I can't for the life of me connect homosexuality to any issue of morality. I do think there are acts of homosexuality which can be classified as lewd, the same way I can see acts of heterosexuality as lewd. The point is, I don't think homosexuality itself is lewd or wrong, and I don't think homosexual behaviors done in private, safely and conservatively with consent are morally wrong.
So this leads me to another question what exactly is so wrong about homosexuality that has made its application so forbidden? Is it just homosexuality that the people of Lot were guilty of, or was there something more? What was this lewdness of theirs such that no people had committed before them? (There is evidence showing that homosexuality has existed long, long before the people of Lot.)
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May harmony be with you,
Unless you are a homosexual yourself and very aware of yourself it is difficult to say how this is an innate condition or if it is a personal "delusion". No one in their right mind would choose to be a homosexual, so we must consider that it is at least a helpless condition. It seems like it is a case that cannot be treated.
I think however; that there are many people who claim bisexuality while they only fall victim to their own desires. If they are bisexual they have a choice, and the design is that there is supposed to be a male and female and together they are as one body. That is the anatomical design. In ways I can understand people who commit homosexual acts, but God forbid me from even venturing into that abomination.
Other than this; homosexuality is not a part of the statutory commandments from God. It does not say that it is right, but it does cause neither oppression nor injustice on its own. But it does not require a very intelligent brain to realize that things were not created so that men are with men or women with women. It is not exactly that it is something important to write about in the scriptures and it is barely mentioned in the past. It is against how things are created, but it causes nothing but a personal loss.
It was mentioned in the narration with Lot, but the people of his wanted to forcefully have sex with his guests and not merely indulge in their own practices. And it is understated that they also practiced highway robbery and all other sorts of wrongdoings. Also if you read the narrations of the Bible you get the impression that it was more than only sex that is involved in the destruction of Gomorrah and Sodom. They likely served gods that "told" them to do this and that. Lot was there to proclaim the message as commanded by The Master, but it seems he did have no success there at all and God destroyed literally everything except Lot and his children who ran in the early dawn towards cover. Even Lot's wife was killed.
I started this topic seeking scientific arguments regarding homosexuality, not opinions.
So far there are no scientific results regarding this topic, but also it is a politically and emotionally charged topic so I think research is limited. And if research is undertaken it can often be politically motivated by people who seek to find a cause and is undertaken reluctantly to find a biased explanation. The issue is likely hidden in the thinking that is going on in the persons, but so far we cannot read minds. We can not understand mental illnesses but only see what kind of activity that occurs in the brain fluids and electric impulses while the symptoms are active. Science got quite many hurdles to get past before they can explain homosexuality.
It is however quite common by observing nature to see homosexual acts being done by animals. They have less choices in what they do, but they also display prevalent instincts.
And a person who goes against too much of his innate instincts also suffers from this, unless The Master helps him/her control this. The homosexual drive seems to be instinctive. But it cannot be proven as it is right now, no.
The only thing you and these people can be informed about is that it is not the natural design and that if it can be helped they should simply not do it. Problem is these "Pride" festivals and the glamorization of bi-homosexuality and trans sexism, as in to make it a normalized thing. It grows forth because other people have problems with these people and it causes a bad trend. It should not become a normalized scenario.
But sex from right to left is also normalized today and a lot of other abominations in God's "eyes", so that homosexuality also gets trendy is nothing strange, but it is far from good.
I worry. But surely they will have their "reward".
Be whole
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peace,
After studying some developmental psychology and reading papers on homosexuality, I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not, by any means, a personal choice. Based on current scientific literature, it is not even linked to upbringing. There has long been established a hereditary link; the current progress is discovering a causal link by means of epigenetics.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the above, but there have been many studies on genetically identical twins in journals, wherein one is straight and one is gay, and the conclusion has consistently been that one is not born gay. In other words, it is a combination of nature and nurture.
In any case
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/islam-homosexuality.htm -
It ought to be a mental disorder then. But the question is how identical genetic twins are and if there can be some developmental flaws.
Peace
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Peace Bilalqureishi.
You have stated many verses from Qoran in your first post. What do you think they mean?
Do we trust GOD to know everything about us. Can we accept His knowledge as the truth?
If GOD made and designed us , He should know our capabilities ,desires, and the exceptions among us ...etc
Why is "Zina" not allowed? One can argue it is a private affair of two consulting adults in their own privacy?
Why are so many other desires not acceptable according to GOD? Should be the question!
Not why does Science agree/disagree? Especially when the research is not conclusive?
Connecting/disconnecting from our Creator is the main problem!!!!!
For example Joseph was connected to His Lord;
...."We thus diverted evil and sin away from him, for he was one of our devoted servants".
Before you make any assumptions I am not judging anyone or applying that so and so is evil or sin?
I am implying that GOD protects/helps us from the "wrong desires" .
If you come to a conclusion that homosexuality is not a "wrong desire" , try and back this judgement from Qoran ,not just Science.
GOD bless you.
Peace JavaLatte.
QuoteHowever, maybe things could change if one day our Lord grants new messenger, someone who is able to explain (clearly) to us the actual meanings of the messages of the Qur'an.
There will always be disputes/disagreements... Every time a messenger comes, there are people who oppose him/her.
The next one will be no different. If there was " no doubt whatsoever "from everyone and total agreement. then the matter would be settled and there will be no trial.
In other words GOD Himself will come down with the Angels and the matter will be done /final judgement!GOD bless you.
Peace to both of you.
