What is the Qur'ans stance on homosexuality?
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Walaykum assalam,
Do you have evidence to support the statement that homosexualitiy is a choice for some people? As per the blanketing concept homosexuality involves the sexual attraction to a person of the same sex. It may manifest in different forms and present on a spectrum in a variety of ways, but it is still fundamentally the same thing. I am speaking about the fundamental pretense attraction to the same sex. Do we have any evidence to suggest that it is a personal choice?
I am speaking about the objective, operational definition of homosexuality as in attraction to the same sex. I don't want us to get distracted with a discussion on semantics, so let's focus strictly on attraction to the same sex.
Let's not diminish the significance of this topic; I think it's very important to discuss as I don't wish to dehumanize our fellow brothers and sisters who are too often alienated in faith. Empathy can help us be more sensitive imagine how it must feel to think that your biology, over which you have no control, has forced you into a state of severe sin. It doesn't seem right. Therefore, let's try to show some courtesy in understanding the roots of homosexuality before we come to any strict judgments. Furthermore, we should always be patient in our discussions. To be precise, I am not interested in opinions on this matter. I am interested in facts. This is why I am requesting scientific, peer-reviewed, scholarly literature on homosexuality. We will all benefit greatly in our understanding if we seek knowledge, not opinion.I am fully aware that homosexuality involves a desire, as does heterosexuality. This desire, however, is not our personal choice, so how can we be held accountable for what we cannot control? I want to bring up a separate example of a breach of morality with respect to desire which will hopefully help us understand the spectrum better
What evidence? What evidence is there that homosexuality is one thing and one thing only. There is no such a thing. I do not need to go into a laboratory to find that out. In order to know people, the only material you need is people. People we all of us know if we are interested in knowing. We do not need to have some scientis t0o come and tells us what is front of us.
The evidence is what I have seen, verified by myself. I know very well men who have b een attracted to women, then experimented and became homosexual. A matter of "morbo". A lot of social, emotional and self image factors come into it.
Exucse me, but it is so plain and so common that I find it absurd that somebody should be looking for "scientific" evidence.
It is completely different when it is a matter of homronhes and physiological determination. There it may be innate and cannot be helped except by chemical or chirrugical treatment, which I personally if I was in such a situation, would not like. I fear those things.
But that is the less frenquent situation. More frequent are emotional experiences, scars, or whatever we may want to call them and exprimenting. That is the main source, at least an important source of homosexuallity. It is a very common saying that once you try it you will not want to go back to straight sex. That is you are straight till you experiment with the other, once you do you may be caught in it. That I have seen myself, and I do not need to go to any laboratory nor to any university to have it certified. And I doubt that they get their results 100% honestly or undonditionned. "science" on human questions tends to be very much coloured by the thought anfd ideollogical fashion.
If I am interested in somebody and want the best for him or her, I would ask him or her and try to find out from him or her w2hatever is there to find out, not from any university nor any other factories of thought or morality. I rather rule those things for myself by myself.
I may and I do listen with all my interest people who have gone trhough emotional trying experiences (we all have gone through those) which may have conditionned his or her life as a sexed individual, but if I care for somebody, what I am not going to do is to pander to idollogical o scientifical fashion for the sake of political correctness. Whatever I come to observe I will not grind it so that it fits in any preconceived or sanctified idea. It is the person who interests me, no how that person can be made to fit thought fashion. I myslef would not like that somebody were interested in me and my problems only to the extent that I can be made to fit some box.
Salaam
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As to the Qur'an I do not think that it forbids or condones liking or being attracted to the same sex. On the other hand the Qur'an always enjoins humanity in sexual dealings, loyalty and respect of equity. It circumscribes its statements to hetero sexual relations, and apart from the Lut people, which is a completely different situation of debauchery, and not a question of being attracted to the same sex, I have not seen that it talks at all about homosexual acts. In fac, in those matters what I see that the Qur'an does is call to good things rather than spend to many words damning bad things in that aspect. It damns continually other things, like hypocresy, double standards, oppression, sow discord and ill will...
Other things does not go into them. If it does not, I gather it is because it is better that it does not. It does however hammer the respect of privacy. That is, sexual conundrums are a trial for persons, but they must not be "socialised". People must be left their privacy to lead on their own lives, their own tragedies and their own problems without them being paraded in the market palce. They must be left to their own dialogues with their own souls. They may do wrong or they may do right, but they should be left to make their return to God on the terms of their own problems and circumstances, in peace and with the possibility of not being publicly judged for something that is private, and not be made the subject of talk when they do not parade their own intimacy and people in general should not get near that kinds of exhibitions if somebody engages in them.
In privacy, of course, people should do their best to help others see clear in themselves. If God gives us problems it is not to damn us, but to make us know Him and get nearer Him.It so happens tht new life comes fromheterosexual relations, therefore there is a point in keeping track of those relationships and that they should have public endorsement for the good of the descendants, but there is no point in making a public business of intimate relations that do not generate for society a particular benefit like the reproduction and reconstitution of society with every generation.
That is, any relation between persons of the same sex is something absolutely private and with private consequenes. Same case with people who are beyond the reproductive age. It is private it corresponds to the private person to evaluate his or her deeds.
Salaam
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May harmony be with you,
Unless you are a homosexual yourself and very aware of yourself it is difficult to say how this is an innate condition or if it is a personal "delusion". No one in their right mind would choose to be a homosexual, so we must consider that it is at least a helpless condition. It seems like it is a case that cannot be treated.
I agree with you.
I think however; that there are many people who claim bisexuality while they only fall victim to their own desires. If they are bisexual they have a choice, and the design is that there is supposed to be a male and female and together they are as one body. That is the anatomical design. In ways I can understand people who commit homosexual acts, but God forbid me from even venturing into that abomination.
Yes, this is something that I wanted to explore. A lot of the other replies are venturing into abstracts saying that the Qur'an neither forbids nor encourages homosexuality, but there are clearly homosexuality references in 781 and 2165-166. In cases of personal choice, I could find that the people of Lut were perhaps bisexual.
Other than this; homosexuality is not a part of the statutory commandments from God. It does not say that it is right, but it does cause neither oppression nor injustice on its own. But it does not require a very intelligent brain to realize that things were not created so that men are with men or women with women. It is not exactly that it is something important to write about in the scriptures and it is barely mentioned in the past. It is against how things are created, but it causes nothing but a personal loss.
A lot of opponents of homosexuality claim that it is not part of the natural order. Since, of course, it is found in nature, we can agree that it is a natural occurrence. Because homosexuality and reproduction are incompatible, it has been stated that the condition is maladaptive. However, an interesting counter-argument I came across mentioned how our species has (long) transcended the carrying capacity and we are at an overpopulation crisis. In this way, those who do not reproduce are, in fact, providing relief for said crisis. It was an interesting idea.
So far there are no scientific results regarding this topic, but also it is a politically and emotionally charged topic so I think research is limited. And if research is undertaken it can often be politically motivated by people who seek to find a cause and is undertaken reluctantly to find a biased explanation. The issue is likely hidden in the thinking that is going on in the persons, but so far we cannot read minds. We can not understand mental illnesses but only see what kind of activity that occurs in the brain fluids and electric impulses while the symptoms are active. Science got quite many hurdles to get past before they can explain homosexuality.
I have found a number of papers even dating back to 1993 (I'm sure there are studies earlier than this) that have made progress in understanding the roots of homosexuality. For quite some time there has been talk about a "gay gene," but a number of researchers object to such an oversimplification. This article here is insightful
http//www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10637532/Being-homosexual-is-only-partly-due-to-gay-gene-research-finds.html
And a person who goes against too much of his innate instincts also suffers from this, unless The Master helps him/her control this. The homosexual drive seems to be instinctive. But it cannot be proven as it is right now, no.
This is a very important point you have made, and this is why I am very sensitive to the topic and how people handle it. I have grown weary of religious "scholars" point to causes of homosexuality out of thin air. Dr. Zakir Naik began stating that he knew unequivocally the causes of homosexuality he said children who watch too much porn eventually become saturated by it and need something more, so they turn to homosexuality. A different reply I will mention, I believe by huruf it was, thinks looking at science is absurd. I hope huruf can see that it is a scientific venture to understand a condition that is so heavily shunned by our fellow brothers and sisters in faith.
The only thing you and these people can be informed about is that it is not the natural design and that if it can be helped they should simply not do it. Problem is these "Pride" festivals and the glamorization of bi-homosexuality and trans sexism, as in to make it a normalized thing. It grows forth because other people have problems with these people and it causes a bad trend. It should not become a normalized scenario.
I mentioned above that as homosexuality occurs naturally, we cannot dismiss it as not part of the natural design. I spoke above about this a little bit already. I completely agree with you about the pride festivals - I don't think these types of things should be flaunted in public.
peace,
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the above, but there have been many studies on genetically identical twins in journals, wherein one is straight and one is gay, and the conclusion has consistently been that one is not born gay. In other words, it is a combination of nature and nurture.
In any case
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/islam-homosexuality.htmThank you for that link. Yes, I am aware of those studies. There still are some differences in identical twins. Studies have shown high correlations, in that if one twin is gay, the other has a higher probability (than otherwise) to be gay as well. In cases where this doesn't happen, it is plausible to suggest that there were hormonal variations in fetal development.
It ought to be a mental disorder then. But the question is how identical genetic twins are and if there can be some developmental flaws.
Peace
Interestingly, homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder in the DSM up until I believe the 1970s. It was later removed; some say to political pressure of the time, some say to actual science. Regardless, most psychiatrists today agree that homosexuality is not a mental disorder, but there are still some that would consider it so.
What evidence? What evidence is there that homosexuality is one thing and one thing only. There is no such a thing. I do not need to go into a laboratory to find that out. In order to know people, the only material you need is people. People we all of us know if we are interested in knowing. We do not need to have some scientis t0o come and tells us what is front of us.
This is called pseudoscience. Firstly, you are playing a game with semantics. Keep it simple homosexuality = the state of being sexually attracted to people of their own sex. As I said previously, there is a spectrum of manifestations of homosexuality, but at its core, it is a very simple concept. I am not looking for evidence to support the definition, just use a dictionary. I am looking for scientific evidence regarding the causal links of homosexuality, and you do need scientific studies for this, not just "I have seen" or "verified by myself." This will not fly, because homosexuality is a condition of the brain.
The evidence is what I have seen, verified by myself. I know very well men who have b een attracted to women, then experimented and became homosexual. A matter of "morbo". A lot of social, emotional and self image factors come into it.
I'm sorry, but I find it extremely difficult to accept your 'empirical' findings. Are you aware of the concept of being a closeted homosexual? Many homosexuals go through a phase of hiding their orientation or even attempting to change it in order to be part of the majority, out of fear of alienation, etc. Only Allah knows what is in the chest, so your claim, as honest as you might think you are, is not strong at all, sorry to say. Your statement regarding social and emotional and self-image factors may play a role in how a person presents himself/herself to the world, but it doesn't have any insight regarding causation of homosexuality.
Exucse me, but it is so plain and so common that I find it absurd that somebody should be looking for "scientific" evidence.
It is completely different when it is a matter of homronhes and physiological determination. There it may be innate and cannot be helped except by chemical or chirrugical treatment, which I personally if I was in such a situation, would not like. I fear those things.
But that is the less frenquent situation. More frequent are emotional experiences, scars, or whatever we may want to call them and exprimenting.
You are coming up with statistical information out of thin air. You claim it is absurd to look for scientific evidence, but you haven't realized that you are making up your own scientific evidence. Statistics are key to the scientific method (gathering data), and you came up with these out of thin air by saying "that is the less frenquent situation." It is clear you don't understand the power of evidence, because you are coming up with your own causal links which are nothing but your own words. I hope you can see the discrepancies in your line of reasoning.
If I am interested in somebody and want the best for him or her, I would ask him or her and try to find out from him or her w2hatever is there to find out, not from any university nor any other factories of thought or morality. I rather rule those things for myself by myself.
Since when is a science lab or a research facility a factory of morality? We should be humble in our realization that human progress and knowledge can only benefit our understanding. We are very frail creatures, prone to arrogance and foolish thinking.
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It is worth noting that, until relatively recently (around the turn of the Century in the West), men having sex with other men was just something you DID- it wasn't something that DEFINED you, and the same applied to women as well. It was only after people began labeling others in society that it acquired any sort of meaning for identification purposes, and given the wide-open nature of Western society I'm frankly amazed that it became stigmatized and not recognized as just another way to have relations with another person.
If one goes with the older Jewish argument that such acts between men are tantamount to 'spilling of the seed', then one must be prepared to argue that in practice it's no worse than masturbation, as both involve the 'spilling of the seed' and do not contribute to procreation. If that is the case, though, then what is the argument in the case of women where there IS no chance of procreation? Indeed, how is male/male or female/female relations any different in practice than having sex with a man or woman who, for whatever reason, cannot produce fluid or bear children?
One could make the argument that by condoning such acts, a society artificially limits itself in its population- i.e., men don't have babies, not matter how much sex they have with other men- and on that merit one might gain ground. This, though, would require the entire society to agree to allow or disallow the practice as beneficial or harmful to the whole.
Taken all together, it would be better if we eliminated the labels of homo- or hetero- and went back to earlier times when sex was something you did, and it wasn't something that determined who you were. If you choose to do that, it's your choice and good or bad you will be held accountable by Allah in the end.
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Exactly, labels do not mean anything.
Not to say that attractions are also fabricated. We see it everyday with the cannons of beauty, applied specially to women. What is attractive at a given a time is seen as ugly at some other.
That is "natural" attraction of course exists, but it is not the only kind of attraction.
Salaam
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Just like others in this thread I am not a big fan of the label "homosexuality". Historically its a very new word, which did not exist when the Quran was written. The Quran talks about the action of having sex with someone of the same gender. It does not say that these actions define these people and turn them into "homosexuals".
However, I saw that you defined homosexuality as "the state of being sexually attracted to people of their own sex". So from this definition we can discuss whether it is a sin or not.
It is not a sin to feel sexually attracted to people of your own sex! I have even had sunni scholars tell me clearly that this is not a sin. You can not control who you feel attracted to, so there is no sin. You are right that it is not a personal choice, just like a socalled "heterosexual" (another word I dont like) can not decide which women he wants to be attracted to.
I dont understand your need to find out if its a personal choice or not. The Quran does not say that its a sin to feel sexually attracted to someone of the same gender, and as mentioned even many sunni scholars agree with this. You seem to meet the wrong kind of religious people.
However, the Quran is very clear that THE ACTION of having sex with someone of the same gender as yourself is a sin! That is what is a sin. It is not the feeling of being attracted, or the desire that is a sin - it is the action. Having sex with someone of the same gender is a sin.
This is clearly written in the Quran. It should also not come as a surprise to us, since it is in general clear in the Quran that sex is only allowed when you are married, and a man can only be married to a woman. A marriage is a "permission to have sex" and 2 men can not get this permission.
"Homosexuals" are normal people, and just like other people they have a personal choice in what actions they do. If they have sex with someone of the same gender, then that is a choice they have made (unless they have a brain tumor...). And it is a sin.
It is not different than a "heterosexual" man who feel attracted to his neighbours wife. If he chooses to have sex with her he has committed a sin. If he choose not to, then he has done a good thing. When we abstain from those of our desires that go against Allahs rules, we do a good deed.
There is no scientific data in this post. Because the thing that is not a personal choice (the attraction) is not a sin, and the thing that is a personal choice (the action) is a sin. So I dont see why you need to discuss whether the first is a personal choice or not. It has nothing to do with the ruling that the action is a sin.
There is evidence showing that homosexuality has existed long, long before the people of Lot.
Can you please provide this evidence?
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I don't believe homosexuality can be considered sinful under the understanding that it is not a personal choice. After studying some developmental psychology and reading papers on homosexuality, I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not, by any means, a personal choice.
http//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk239/qwe-rty/298707-cool-story-bro-obama.jpg
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I understand that the verses on homosexuality are in reference to Lut's people. Before I cite those, I want to state that at the present moment, I am unequivocally against homophobia. I don't believe homosexuality can be considered sinful under the understanding that it is not a personal choice. After studying some developmental psychology and reading papers on homosexuality, I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not, by any means, a personal choice. Based on current scientific literature, it is not even linked to upbringing. There has long been established a hereditary link; the current progress is discovering a causal link by means of epigenetics.
If anyone believes homosexuality is a choice, please provide for me scientific, peer-reviewed, scholarly articles/journals/papers that demonstrate unequivocal evidence for this.
Now, moving on to the Qur'an, here is what we find
778 The earthquake took them, thus they became lifeless in their home.
779 Thus he turned away from them, and said "My people, I have delivered to you the message of my Lord and advised you; but you do not like the advisers."
780 And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"
781 "You are approaching the men out of desire instead of the women! Indeed, you are a transgressing people."
782 The only response of his people was "Drive them out of your town; they are a people who wish to be pure!"
783 We saved him and his family, except for his wife; she was of those who were destroyed.
784 And We rained down upon them a rain, so see how was the punishment for the criminals.1177 And when Our messengers came to Lot, he was grieved by them and he felt discomfort for them and he said "This is a distressful day."
1178 And his people came rushing towards him, and before it they were committing sin, he said "My people, these are my daughters, they are purer for you, so be aware of God and do not disgrace me regarding my guests. Is there no wise man among you?"
1179 They said "You know we have no interest in your daughters, and you are aware of what we want!"
1180 He said "If only I had strength against you, or I could find for myself some powerful support."
1181 They said "O Lot, we are messengers of your Lord; they will not be able to harm you, so travel with your family during the cover of the night and let not any of you look back except for your wife, she will be afflicted with what they will be afflicted. Their scheduled time will be the morning. Is the morning not near?"
1182 So when Our command came, We made its highest part become its lowest, and We rained on it with hardened fiery projectiles.
1183 Marked from your Lord, and they are never far from the wicked.
1184 And to Midyan was their brother Shu'ayb, he said "My people, serve God, you have no god besides Him, and do not give short in the measure and the weight. I see you in prosperity, and I fear for you the retribution of a day that is surrounding."26160 The people of Lot denied the messengers.
26161 For their brother Lot said to them "Will you not be righteous?"
26162 "I am to you a trustworthy messenger."
26163 "So be aware of God and obey me."
26164 "And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds."
26165 "Do you approach the males of the worlds?"
26166 "And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!"
26167 They said "If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those driven out."
26168 He said "I am in severe opposition to your acts!"
26169 "My Lord, save me and my family from what they do."
26170 So We saved him and his entire family.
26171 Except for an old woman who remained.
26172 Then We destroyed the others.
26173 And We rained upon them a rain. Miserable was the rain to those who had been warned.
26174 In that is a sign, but most of them are not believers.
26175 And that your Lord is the Noble, the Merciful.2928 And Lot, when he said to his people "You commit a lewdness that no others in the world have done before!"
2929 "You sexually approach men, and you commit highway robbery, and you bring all vice to your society." But the only response from his people was to say "Bring us the retribution of God, if you are being truthful!"
2930 He said "My Lord, grant me victory over the wicked people."
2931 And when Our messengers came to Abraham with good news, they said "We are to destroy the people of such a town, for its people have been wicked."
2932 He said "But Lot is in it!" They said "We are fully aware of who is in it. We will save him and his family, except his wife; she is of those doomed."
2933 And when Our messengers came to Lot, they were mistreated, and he was embarrassed towards them. And they said "Do not fear, and do not be saddened. We will save you and your family, except for your wife; she is of those doomed."
2934 "We will send down upon the people of this town an affliction from the heaven for what wickedness they were in."
2935 And We left remains of it as a clear sign for a people who comprehend.Thoughts? I really need clarification on this topic.
Hello,
it seems to be an interesting topic always.
You might want to see this post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606167.msg345738#msg345738Peace
sun
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http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZhfIIYedfQ
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I have grown weary of religious "scholars" point to causes of homosexuality out of thin air. Dr. Zakir Naik began stating that he knew unequivocally the causes of homosexuality he said children who watch too much porn eventually become saturated by it and need something more, so they turn to homosexuality.
Zakir Naik has a good memory, but his arguments are often unconvincing. It escapes me why he pretends to know everything. If Zakir Naik happens to have a debate with a rational scientist, you can easily bet who'd win.
Coming back to the topic, I've always been puzzled about why the Koran seems to be against same-gender sex. I haven't found any answers, and I don't know if I'd will.
Nevertheless, it can be said that the Koran isn't talking about homosexuality when it says that no one in the world did it before. I read up a little on Sodom and Gomorrah. It's not just about gay sex. The people there were quite inhospitable, and probably used to sodomise visitors. You can definitely say that this would have been a new practice.
The Koran also talks about them going for men and leaving women. There's a hint of bisexuality here. Perhaps they were bisexuals, but chose to have sex with males only. We must also remember that they used to rob people and do other bad stuff. Lot's people wanted to have sex with his guests, and it's clear that they were not concerned with the guests' consent. It would've been forced.
I don't have any clear answers, and things will always be open to interpretation.
The one thing I can definitely agree with you on is that homosexuality is not a matter of choice. You don't need scientific paper to prove this. Just go and ask homosexuals. You'd get the answer. Just as easily as heterosexuals will tell you that they desired the opposite sex since the very beginning, homosexuals will tell you that they desired the same sex from the very beginning. Bisexuals will say they were attracted to both.
As for why it's put into the category of sin, I have no answer. But there's a verse in the Koran that says that every person has some good and some bad - only those succeed who improve their good.
There are many criminals out there who have a certain brain chemistry so they lack empathy. They don't mind killing people at all.
There are some people who get angry quite easily, and the Koran says you must let go of anger.
There are paedophiles who go after children. Perhaps they lack desire for adults? They ought to control their desires too.
So perhaps homosexuality is also ingrained in some people, and it's our responsibility not to indulge in it. That's the only reconciliation that I've found so far.
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Would you mind telling us what you mean by this stupid satire?
I just wanna make fun of retards who claim that Quran isnt against homosexuality when it clearly is, it says that more than 5 times. I believe in Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve. They are making fun of Quran, God and creation that has been attacked through mainstream media which openly promote luciferian ideology.
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God made different gender for certain reason,one of it is growing of Population.Having sex with opposit gender should led to a new Human,it?s likie eating a beatiful sweat fruit,attracted by its colour,smell,look and shape you deliver its corn with your dum.
Having sex with the same gender is like eating cultivated Grapes bad taste and no seeds,its serves for nothing just to fill your stomache.Homosexuality just fills you desire and serves not for the Population.
So in my View beeing gay is not sinful but to live a homosexual life and not beeing fruitful,is disliked by god.So are People choosing a Lifestyle of a single,like Monks although doing good deeds like most gays living a formidable life,are against the will of God to be fruitful.
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Peace be upon you.
I understand that the verses on homosexuality are in reference to Lut's people. Before I cite those, I want to state that at the present moment, I am unequivocally against homophobia. I don't believe homosexuality can be considered sinful under the understanding that it is not a personal choice. After studying some developmental psychology and reading papers on homosexuality, I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not, by any means, a personal choice. Based on current scientific literature, it is not even linked to upbringing. There has long been established a hereditary link; the current progress is discovering a causal link by means of epigenetics.
I'm of the opinion that you're right. For all those wondering, there has been a series of documentaries which focuses on heritability among other things, and in one episode, it touches on the issue of homosexuality http//vimeo.com/album/2907736/video/19869748
At a part in this video, we come to twins, one of which is gay while the other isn't so. The explanation given is that while they are genetically identical people, they have differing epigenetics (i.e. they have the same genes but they express genes differently, through no choice of their own). We can reasonably come to the conclusion that some people are simply born homosexual, and I think it is simply unproductive to think otherwise.
As for my honest opinion, homosexuality is not a sin, but for someone to approach another of the same sex with desire is forbidden. I have felt this desire before, but with God's help, I will never approach a man with it.
The people of Lut rejected the messengers. Behold, their brother Lut said to them ?Will ye not fear (Allah)? I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust. So fear Allah and obey me. No reward do I ask of you for it my reward is only from the lord of the Worlds. Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!?
They said ?If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!?
He said ?I do detest your doings.? (Surat ash-Shuara 160-16Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried? But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars. (Surat al-'Anqabut 2-3)
Allah knows best.
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I just wanna make fun of retards who claim that Quran isnt against homosexuality when it clearly is, it says that more than 5 times. I believe in Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve. They are making fun of Quran, God and creation that has been attacked through mainstream media which openly promote luciferian ideology.
And please watch your etiquette. Do you really think it is becoming of a believer to make a mockery of others? Take heed.
Seest thou not how Allah sets forth a parable? - A goodly word like a goodly tree, whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches (reach) to the heavens,- of its Lord. So Allah sets forth parables for men, in order that they may receive admonition.
It brings forth its fruit at all times, by the leave of its Lord. So Allah sets forth parables for men, in order that they may receive admonition.
And the parable of an evil Word is that of an evil tree It is torn up by the root from the surface of the earth it has no stability
(Surat 'Ibrahim 24-26) -
There are many ways of being impolite, and the most straighforward is not necessarily the worst. People who read other people answers just enough or with enough attention to be able to throw disparaging answers which are not such answers and inuendo are far less polite because they are disguised as politeness.
This thread, I would say, is not particularly polite.
Salaam
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Most of the threads I have come across here usually are impolite. My intention was to gain leverage of respect for our fellow brothers and sisters who struggle with a condition. This issue of separating the desire from the action is just a lawyer's trick, and I'll explain why.
It's easy to say desire is not the sin, but the action is. Well, we can apply that to heterosexuals too, but we don't say that all their sexual desires cannot be acted upon. For homosexuals, they are completely blocked off and forbidden from sexual activity that they are inclined towards. What has this led to? So many homosexuals struggle enough with bullying as they grow older, but what's worse is when they are bullied by their own families, as well, and are told that their condition will lead them to sin. Don't play the game by saying the desire is perfectly fine but the action is not.
I am interested very much in the psychology, because these attempts at "treating" or "curing" homosexuality lead to severe blow-back; suppression is a very dangerous method to use.
We really shouldn't waste time on the semantics, though I understand they are important to a degree, but most of the responses here are tangential and are just assuming it is absurd to care about root cause. You don't have to understand why I'm interested in the root causes, if you haven't understood already; if you want to reply, just simply answer my original questions without berating my intentions.
Honestly, what does it matter what we believe if we can't follow the basics of our deen? For the individual calling me a "retard," if you believe I am ignorant and you follow the Qur'an, then why don't you apply the following verse in your mannerisms
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O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.Are we so blind that we can't follow even the simplest, most basic aspects of courtesy?
I was quite clear what I was requesting in my original post, but it is also quite clear, as Allah states in the Qur'an, the human being is most argumentative.
However, thank you to those who did provide actual substance which was insightful. Allah bless you all.
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Peace be upon you.
I'm of the opinion that you're right. For all those wondering, there has been a series of documentaries which focuses on heritability among other things, and in one episode, it touches on the issue of homosexuality http//vimeo.com/album/2907736/video/19869748
At a part in this video, we come to twins, one of which is gay while the other isn't so. The explanation given is that while they are genetically identical people, they have differing epigenetics (i.e. they have the same genes but they express genes differently, through no choice of their own). We can reasonably come to the conclusion that some people are simply born homosexual, and I think it is simply unproductive to think otherwise.
As for my honest opinion, homosexuality is not a sin, but for someone to approach another of the same sex with desire is forbidden. I have felt this desire before, but with God's help, I will never approach a man with it.
The people of Lut rejected the messengers. Behold, their brother Lut said to them ?Will ye not fear (Allah)? I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust. So fear Allah and obey me. No reward do I ask of you for it my reward is only from the lord of the Worlds. Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!?
They said ?If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!?
He said ?I do detest your doings.? (Surat ash-Shuara 160-16Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried? But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars. (Surat al-'Anqabut 2-3)
Allah knows best.
Alhamdulillah, very-well said. The issue is clearing for me.
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Peace,
I would say that being unkind/hostile is in that case just as much sin as practicing homosexuality. So "do not throw a stone in a glasshouse" as we Swedes tend to have as a saying, or before you remove the splinter from your brother's eye, remove the dirt in your own first, so you can see clear enough to help your brother.
And oppression is worse than murder, so be mindful of how you treat others, because this oppression can be worse than their homosexuality as potential sin.
Homosexuality triggers much anger as a topic. I have seen a few derailed topics since I joined the forum. How about their case is a test for people and showing hypocrisy.
Be whole