Women are the problem in society
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Peace to all,
may I add my two cents to the conversation. I can proudly say I am a woman and at the same time I agree and understand the position of Man in Faith and reel. First of all, we should define what feminism means for us.
Of course, emancipation of women is absolutely praiseworthy, it brought the dynamic of the society governed by patriarchat (say level Extreme A) to the balanced(QUranic/enlightened) ( neutral) level. Now we have the exact opposite trend (say Extreme Z) a trend in which women should be equal to men in all aspects, without understanding differences phisiological, biological, hormonal, whatever. This is the current which tells that women should fight for power just as the men do etc. Such process in the long term creates social enemity between women and men, and can disturb family and social life. This bring us to the situation when we have to fight and hate each other and even themselves. Women hate their own feminine side and try to prove that they are like men, they say its unfair they have to give birth to children,. And men are becoming confused which results in either them becoming even worse shauvinistic tyrants protecting their position or sexually confused, hating and mistrusting women, and finally turning into various sexual disorders (homo, bi, etc).Actually the same happens with women...
The most ironical and dramatic to me is that this hatred between sexes expressed by angry 'feminists' is (from my historical perspective) quite a direct consequence of patriarchat, and yet still, instead of giving women relief, it only adds up to the pressures of behaving as men, achieving what men do and forgetting their feminine side and feminine powers.
It is really regrettable that we (women and men) are gradually losing real connection with each other, unable to really understand who we are and be happy and respecting what the other sex can bring to the table.Thank you
M.bravo
Other than the part highlighted in red above - the rest is a very well put summary on the topic. The sexual disorder part - seems to be a misfit, though )
Both men and women need to understand, the traditional child bearing and family oriented role by women is as important as the bread-earner role of men. This by no means imply that women cannot engage in bread-earning activities or, men cannot take up family roles - just important to note these two roles are equally important and complementary to each other. Whereas, it is absolute injustice for men to look down upon their "house-wives" for their family-oriented role - it is equally unwise for women to suffer from inferiority complex for such role.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salaam,
thank you armanaziz for your feedback. Let me explain what I meant by that. In nutshell, I tend to see some connection between feminist movements and turning sexuality upside down (or rather front to back) in Western societies. In the Uk for example women many times are becoming very competitive with men, become harsher in their behaviour and want to show that they dont need man ('I can pay for my dinner' etc). Men on the other hand, faced with such competition and faced with lack of appreciation from women are becoming less confident, even afraid of women. This makes a big impact on their masculine ego, which in the long term can divert their sexual preference towards the same sex partner. Masculine ego for me is what testosteron does to man readiness to compete, focus on tasks and achieving success, taking pleasure from being praised by woman etc.
Of course I'm not saying that this happens always, but yes from my observation there is something about it and I would be curious to hear someone more informed about relation between feminism and loss of masculinity in men.Regards
M. -
Well, for a person who seeks the inner self, one becomes/feels disintegrated in the community given the condition of it. It is easy to give up hope, but one has to see the light in the darkness. Problem for the average person is that they accept society and norms as they are instead of taking it as abnormal. If one sees the society as the problem and not oneself it is easier to remain sane and rational, because it is easy to become either accepting of the chaos and indulge in it or fall aside depressed.
Sometimes I think that it would be easier for me to accept the norms and game rules of society and jump in and enjoy life and women and earn easy money from greedy methods, but God forbid and it is not really worth it because it does not make one happy anyway. I + want; is the opposite path towards happiness but only the one with a humble soul will last.
When one desires something, particularly beyond reach or has a long wearisome path towards it, this causes stress and in fact while getting what you want it will rarely make you happy. It is stressing and your character changes in pursuit for popularity and confirmation by other people if this is what you seek, which is generally why people buy luxury cars or as large villa as possible.
I have a case of a neighbor who built a second story on his house because he was jealous of the other neighbors and wanted to have the biggest house, but he possibly ran out of money because he never finished the interior.
Many people take a loan to buy a new Audi or other fancy car, buy on credit cards to buy things they have no need for, just to shine with status.
But many people do not realize how much they work to afford their vain life and that they actually do not live at all. Their desired possessions become their curse.
It is quite the paradox that with our technological advancements still do not have enough time for ourselves, but we spend less time which was natural for even my grandparents' generation. The hunt to please our egos takes its toll on us instead of simply be. Even over a 50 years period things have changed; people drive faster, walk faster, talk faster and when are people going to slow down?
Then people are sometimes wondering over all cardiovascular, diabetes diseases and cancer and where they all come from.
People live longer, but to what price? Lots of elders have dementia, Parkinson and many other chronic diseases.
There are some regions where elders often live past 100 and they often live in less technologically advanced countries with less sophisticated healthcare. And they are generally healthier in old age until death and only weakness and withering takes their life. Our average age of around 80 in the "Western world" still does not stand up with that despite advanced "miraculous" healthcare, and it has rampaging cases of chronic diseases with patients living for years with problems.
And what causes this? The lifestyle...
Be of one with God
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Title should be "Feminism is the problem in our society', Women are not the problem. Society is, and Society has chosen feminism as a social "virtue", one must ask, for such a progressive and modern virtue ,why is there so much vice in it? It feels like going backwards instead of forward. Anyway, interesting comments; not sure I agree but still interesting .
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Majority muslims are confused with culture and religion, for many religion itself defines their culture and imposes strict rules and regulations. Local customs and values are long evolved, if they are evolved without reasoning it would not stand for generations. In many societies Women are praised respected for their motherhood and are even considered as able leaders. But I think in Modern Islam the cultural rituals changed into religious rules crossing all reasoning.
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I suppose it is completely useless, once people have decided that muslims are terrorists there is no going back on it or explaining anything. It is like that and that is it. And they hate everything and everybody.
And, of course, everything is their fault.
Fine. That is the way to go.
Salaam
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Reel - I have searched about Rockefeller. I also came across his plans to destroy families and him behind feminism. There was this interview I was watching and this man, who is no more, said Rockefeller told him he was the one behind to sponsor feminists organizations. Of course, I don't exactly remember that man's name and I do not know if I have the link of that interview now. I have bad memory when it comes to exact details and names. That was during when I was searching 9/11 and NWO.
I don't know if I can have any exact opinion on Rockefeller though. I do not have exact proof. It would be wrong if I judge him when I didn't see him doing with my own eyes. Only God knows for sure. I will be just careful of him and his plans.
I was commenting on an article about ISIS. The media here is filled with news about them and anti-islam, and the comments are worse. They know nothing about Quran and say how it promotes violence with all the Hadiths which they also post. I posted a comment under a post saying it is not the Qur'an with the verses showing it is not the Qur'an's teachings, and yahoo deleted my comment 4-5 times. I guess they just do not want people to see the truth like what is happening to your research being manipulated. They just want masses to remain clueless thinking there is war on terror and the other side extremist ignorant ones to join ISIS.Just like the Rothschild, Rockefellers multiply like rats. The work of this vermin group is to remove humans from farms so they can claim ownership on their crops. Rockefeller foundation pretends to work for the government to make this happen and it sponsored the work of kinsey to finish families. Watch here a man from Chile trying to remove one of the rats from his farm https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-9Szj-M6yM
Yahoo News is the home shills. http//www.forestforwomen.com/2012/06/why-yahoo-is-no-more-taken-seriously.html
Media is used for propaganda distribution. Shills psychologically influence readers to believe in them. Its no use to correct the news coming from "zionists".Women cannot be held pows for ages because they happen to be the key for the future of the species. They have a right to freedom as women, not as b-males. Women have a right to freedom without being forced to switch off her female parameters.
And when and if that is achieved everybody will be much happier, specifically males which might finally live in a world of reality and not in a world where they are the stars, or should be the stars, which right now weights heavily on the male psyche, having to respond to an image of success that most of the time they cannot hold and sacrifice their own natural self for the sake of their male image.
The Qur'an is right. Society must change its default setting.
I am glad reel that you finally see what I mean. And I can see what you depict in universities in USA and so on. Academia, unfortunately, in the human sciences and in others sciences I am afraid is also a battleground. But we shouold not let others to pick our struggles for us.A lot has changed in the society. Not all men now view women like property. Hear Man of Faith. Majority of the men in the western society think like him. They are no more hurt by women's freedom. But where to draw the line when they are confused by mixed messages? There are still debates about who should pay for dinner during a date. But its no even needed. Just like men, women should show interest in paying the bill. This is a good gesture if we want to be equal to them. We need to dress up modestly and show our talent through work. That is how respect is earned. Lowering respect for half naked person is natural. Feminists always avoid thinking about this. Psychologically, even women don't take men in tank tops and shorts very seriously. I mean come on, teen males wear them for which we are programmed to believe that an adult man following their style is being immature. Therefore, he cant be taken seriously.
I do not understand why the issue of feminism seems very popular abroad...
I think in my life I have never seen any "extreme war" between the sexes ( and ♀ in my country.
In my view, commonly, the Indonesian men have adequate appreciation and respect for Indonesian women. I see that we (the women here) can freely go and perform various activities without having to worry despised or demeaned by men only because we're women. Praise be to God.
We do have big problem esp in US. Feminists argued that only women had the right to take decisions for a baby. So our government has come up with law according to which if a boyfriend doesn't pay child support to his girlfriend for the baby they brought to world he will go to jail. At face value, it looks fair. In reality, this has turned the law into a big business for some women. They now dont want the boyfriends to stay. Instead they are intentionally thrown out so that the law can be used to force them to pay the monthly child support. One girl I met in university is still angry at her husband. They had a kid when she was 16. She told me that she did everything to throw him out. But her mom liked him so much that she was in the end forced to marry him. She complained to me that because he stayed with her she couldn't enjoy the finance. If you can have 3 illegitimate children you will almost live like a queen.
Title should be "Feminism is the problem in our society', Women are not the problem. Society is, and Society has chosen feminism as a social "virtue", one must ask, for such a progressive and modern virtue ,why is there so much vice in it? It feels like going backwards instead of forward. Anyway, interesting comments; not sure I agree but still interesting .
lol, I agree. We were supposed to be the superior race. But we have chosen to copy the animals. They don't marry. They'll go with anyone they want. Mommy animals keep the babies for a while and then she abandons them. In human society, the kids are thrown out of the house at age 18. But thats what fake professor Kinsey wanted. He was the one who said we humans are animals in need of spreading our seeds. Same thing Plato preached because once humans become animals they are easier to control. Its like we are back to time when men and animals lived in the same way.
Majority muslims are confused with culture and religion, for many religion itself defines their culture and imposes strict rules and regulations. Local customs and values are long evolved, if they are evolved without reasoning it would not stand for generations. In many societies Women are praised respected for their motherhood and are even considered as able leaders. But I think in Modern Islam the cultural rituals changed into religious rules crossing all reasoning.
All remixed religions are the problem. Just read the stuff from this page http//endtimemessage.info/womenpreachers.htm Christianity is not different from mainstream Islam.
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A lot has changed in the society. Not all men now view women like property. Hear Man of Faith. Majority of the men in the western society think like him. They are no more hurt by women's freedom. But where to draw the line when they are confused by mixed messages? There are still debates about who should pay for dinner during a date. But its no even needed. Just like men, women should show interest in paying the bill. This is a good gesture if we want to be equal to them. We need to dress up modestly and show our talent through work. That is how respect is earned. Lowering respect for half naked person is natural. Feminists always avoid thinking about this. Psychologically, even women don't take men in tank tops and shorts very seriously. I mean come on, teen males wear them for which we are programmed to believe that an adult man following their style is being immature. Therefore, he cant be taken seriously.
Alaways, always, always there hsve been men who hasve respeted women and womanhood. That is nothing new, and, in fact may be societies were less cruel with women a few centuries ago than two or one centuries ago, when the industrial age broke up the the family as economic unit.
There have always been the struggle between power as the most powerful reason and justice. And many males have always been honourable and deserving of respect.
The problem is that it is not those men who have set the standards, or rather the standards set by those men have not been the "universally accepted standars, but rather those set by their antithesis, the standards of raw power, where women are used and thrown out.
Now some peole are surprised bcause, since it has been imossible to make bad males and their standards to become good males and the standars good, women have become "like men". What tidi you expect?
But now, of course, because of that, we can feel awfully right and righteous singing the old tune that everything is the fsult of women.
Does people not get bored with that.
We could make a context of singing old tunes and see which one wins
Everything is the fault of women versus everything is the fault of muslims
I think the "everything is the fault of women" would win, because it is sung in every country whereas I suppose, everything is the fault of muslims might be still not so much liked in "muslims" countries.
But the winner, the real winner of all these contexts is guilt. Getting the guilty one seems to be the overriding need of any discussion. That seems to be the great reward ot it I guess.
Salaam
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Why in the world would all problems be the women? It is a community that bears responsibility for the wellbeing of all its citizens.
And about women dressing extreme they will continue as long as other people approve of it unless they leave their primitive mind behind and start to think on a spiritual level.
Be of one with God
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I don't think all women are at fault. Just as I said, feminists changed the way society operated. Not all women want to fall for the crap, but they are simply forced. Once I was reading this research paper according to which most young girls lost virginity out of pressure from men aka rape. What kind of rape? Teen males were brainwashed by the feminist media that all girls are freely available for sex. One who says no to it is actually a selfish person. This gives them the right to emotionally blackmail their teen girlfriends with "if you dont go to bed then I will have to go to another one". Shedding clothes is another one. It has made girls more worried about their bodies. Some even end up in hospital because of some eating disorder or depression.
That's why we need humanism. By far, this has been the most successful driving force behind elimination of open racism and segregation. I believe it can also throw away gender discrimination and enhance awareness about children's feelings. This is the only way love can be brought back to our societies.
Most man made stuffs rot. British imperialism gave rise to nationalism in plenty of countries. Freedom fighters fought the British with its spirit to gain independence. Now this same nationalism has turned into ugly fascism. People like Hitler are to be credited for it. In the same way, feminism helped women gain positions in the society. But after Kinsey attack, it got hijacked by Hitler like feminists. Hitler killed jews, mentally ill people and handicaps. Feminists are killing families. It has turned rotten. Its no more working. We want unity and not division. Humanism is the only thing that can do it.
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I f you want to keep on your tirades against feminism, you should restrict to the feminism that does whatever you say it does, otherwise, I am sorry but you are SLANDERING a lot of people me included.
I cannot but think that you asnd all that spit venom against feminism that way are biased, awfully biased.
Feminism continues to be not only justified but necessary. It is not a questionn only of women. Many men are feminists because they see that only if we get our sight well adjusted we will be able to see the real world, the real events and how and how they come to be. And I am sorry, but the problem lies in that default settings we have. No way forward for anybody if we do not change those settings.
Blaming right and left does nto solve anything.
Pushing the antifeminist stance is very rewarding. It is a callword that gathers a lot of response because blaming women, directly or indirectly is something we know is always very easy and very profitable. That is why it has always been done.
But neither the Qur'an nor the human fitra approves of that.
Blaming in general leads to nothing, blaming women leads to a shaytanic society.
Salaam
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Why in the world would all problems be the women? It is a community that bears responsibility for the wellbeing of all its citizens.
And about women dressing extreme they will continue as long as other people approve of it unless they leave their primitive mind behind and start to think on a spiritual level.
Be of one with God
Wtih this I agree.
And watch out for the bodies. All the chicken come to roost.
I said before that when the emancipation of women became a need or a fact, men morals or inmorals were so hard boiled that it was easier to make women as inmoral as the men than to make men as moral as the women. And in all this I do not men good men but trendsetting men, of course.
We are there, and what we are seeing lately is that men are also being descended to what women before had been descended to be looked at ss flesh for consumption. Men are starting to spend in cosmetics No has as much as women but it is becoming a sizeable market.
So yes, there are things going on, and they are going on because we have accepted for ages that some huamn beings are there for others and not for themselves (that is that the biblical narrative of creation in the Garden has instilled in the minds) and that there are others normal, primordial or natural human beings for whom others were created.
Of course, it is not becuase of the bible, may the bible was because of it. If it could be corruted to uphold that it was because there were corruptors for it.
But still it helps diagnosing the disease.
The Qur'an does it. in 4.34. Men are males as a function of women, Women are not females as a function of men bbut women are females as a function of the ghaib which belongs only to God.
That mision of the women has been used to contrict them instead of doing what the Qur'an says
4.1... Be conscious of God... and be conscious of the wombs.
That is the only time in the whole of Qur'an where something is said to be conscious of in the same sentence with being conscious of God.
If women do not value their particular amana from God, if men think that any amana from God is to be repaid by the women, we will get nowhere.
Wombs must be honoured and neither men nor women should require a payment for the amana of qawwamu nor use it to put restrictions nor dictate to women.
That amana from God to each of the sexes is a dignity, is an honour, not a business to be exploited to get revenues of any kind. Men and women should serve humanity, but men as males should serve women, because service is the highest spiritual degree. Men cannot serve humanity bringing new creatures, but they can serve women who do it for the whole of humanity. Service is the highest spiritual degree. Prophets are servants of humanity and that is why they are a mercy for the worlds and that is why God sends them.
It is regaining our spiritual dignity of service the way we will get liberated from the shaytanic vision of existence, which aims at making out of every person her or his own little God, some of them may think big god.
God is clear, although human beings are scurrilous and they think tht they can always trick their destinies. Our destinies are back to God, not back to the tv or the press or whatever the mainstream may decree we should be worried about.
Salaam
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I am aware of feminist males. Saw one last evening in the class. This professor went with "did you know women still can't get out at night?" What about the fact that night time outside is dangerous for men also? That's why, one night for an hour I had to convince my fiance on the phone to not start walking from his office. His car was not starting at the lot. His family was not answering his call and there was no one left in the office. I live 2 hours away from his city. Otherwise, I would have gone. The only good thing is that he works inside naval university. The gated area was extremely secure and I kept convincing him to take help from the guards. I can't even think of allowing my dad to take a walk on the street at night. Point is that I always find hypocrisy in points of feminists. I don't mean to offend you, but by personality I am a diverger. I take everyone's point of view into account and I have spoken to many illegitimate children. They aren't all happy about their lives. From 7 different kids from 7 different locations I heard "I wish my mom married my biological father". This kind of thing makes me realize how much we take parents for granted in nuclear families and how people have stopped thinking about what children want. We get angry about our strict parents and they dream of strict parents.
What about those single teen moms who have lost the way to education? What about those women who are suffering from Aids and herpes? What about those men who have become victims of fake love and are now paying child support? What about the women who even after being educated can't get jobs and are forced to take up something they never learned about in college? What about the women suffering from skin cancer? What about that one child who falls into drug addiction because his single mom can't be with him all the time? What about the men who engulfed by fear of getting divorce never want to marry?
Why don't feminists speak of these? Because today's feminism is based on agenda of secret society just like Al Qaida, CIA and FBI. Innocent feminists like you are simply pawns. That's how they make things work. Please do research to know the truth. Its as same as sunni and shia cases.
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Its as same as sunni and shia cases.
This single sentence sums up the whole thread. Male Chauvinism or Feminism, Sunniism or Shiaism, Christianity or Islam - the same "divides" over and over again in various contexts.
And that ladies and gents is the problem -- DIVISION where division should not exist! We waste time dividing males and females for no reason. I tell you, the real culprits want it that way. They want arguments, debates, struggles and wars for division! Keeping the masses busy in these needless vanities, the real devils enjoy the petty, quantitative benefits that come from such events. Keeping us struggling against each other, keeps us from working against these demons and allows them to get away!
Division aught to be struck between us, and these few human devils with fire and dollar signs for eyes, who see niches of profit and amusement.
The West keeps trying to strip a woman from clothing and call it giving them "rights". The East goes to the other extreme in the guise of treating a woman like a queen and makes sure that a woman cannot be differentiated from a ninja... the most that can be said is that there's a black structure walking down the street!
These extremes ARE the PROBLEM! taking sides with either sex will never bring about a solution. Right perspective and balance is the key.
It should never be men vs women or women vs men...It should be about BOTH versus ego-maniacal, wordly gain seeking bastards.
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This is answering reels Reply 54
I think YOU are a pawn, of the easy trick of setting up people between two extremes and being obliged to side with one of them, you fall for it like a ton of bricks and you refuse to acknowledge that your feminism, the one you say their is in your country may be so like you say or may be there is another feminism that you refuse to acknowledge because you have already made up your mind that feminism is the devil.
I do not live in the United states so I am not going to discuss what the feminism there is, but you are pretty daring saying that the feminism you know is all there is. Just acknowledge that that is all the feminism you know and do not stretch it. Seeing your onesidedness I do not even believe that there is no other feminism in the United States but the one you depict.
On the other hand I wonder a lot in your tirade about the feminist devil that you feel so much compassion for
"What about those men who have become victims of fake love and are now paying child support?"
But you do not seem to give a shit for the child. Children do not live off air. And if you do a job to a girl it is no mistery that a child may issue. I am sure it is much worse for the mother than for him. And whether he likes it or not or whether it destroys his life or not HE DID CAUSE IT. For sure it was not the holy spirit. And for sure nobody raped him. I do not wish him any evil, but I certainly worry more about the child than about him.
But what do I say! men are always the victims of some bitch, what else. They were forced into it. He must have been forced, of course, because he would never do that by himself. And my God, what a crime? to pay child support for his own child! Can anybody thin of anything crueller?
I am an old women and I have seen plenty of everything. But in the worst times in Spain nobody would have ever thought that the father of a child paying for the child subsistence would have been out of place. But I am starting to think that in fact your are right, it is outrageous, on top of him giving a good time to the girl he must pay for the child... Where is this world going!
And the Qur'an of course forbids that, that a father whould pay for his child, of course is wrong, it is very much forbidden in the Qur'an isn't it.
And Yusuf, prophet Yusuf must have been an idiot, he should have taken the opportunity of being seduced and then refused to pay for the child also, that would have been the right thing for him to do, right?
Yes, for sure, I am an idiot pawn who doesn't know a thing even the simplest of all that everything is always the woman's fault. It is so simple! How is it that I do not see it? It must be the pawn thing that makes me not see the obvious. And really what a pity! Poor boy, first raped and then paying child support for his own child! Can anybody think of anything more wicked?
Salaam
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This single sentence sums up the whole thread. Male Chauvinism or Feminism, Sunniism or Shiaism, Christianity or Islam - the same "divides" over and over again in various contexts.
And that ladies and gents is the problem -- DIVISION where division should not exist! We waste time dividing males and females for no reason. I tell you, the real culprits want it that way. They want arguments, debates, struggles and wars for division! Keeping the masses busy in these needless vanities, the real devils enjoy the petty, quantitative benefits that come from such events. Keeping us struggling against each other, keeps us from working against these demons and allows them to get away!
Division aught to be struck between us, and these few human devils with fire and dollar signs for eyes, who see niches of profit and amusement.
The West keeps trying to strip a woman from clothing and call it giving them "rights". The East goes to the other extreme in the guise of treating a woman like a queen and makes sure that a woman cannot be differentiated from a ninja... the most that can be said is that there's a black structure walking down the street!
These extremes ARE the PROBLEM! taking sides with either sex will never bring about a solution. Right perspective and balance is the key.
It should never be men vs women or women vs men...It should be about BOTH versus ego-maniacal, wordly gain seeking bastards.
I am taking sides for both sexes as the Qur'an explicits.
Salaam
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I think you missed a point in what reel meant and that not about any error in paying for childcare but for the sinister motive of causing this to gain a source of income for own pleasures.
Be of one with God
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I think you missed a point in what reel meant and that not about any error in paying for childcare but for the sinister motive of causing this to gain a source of income for own pleasures.
Be of one with God
What do they give for child supp0ort in the united States thousandos of dollars or what? because the amounts usually are not preisaly to live like princes. Frankly the whole thing sound ludicrous, but anything goes when one wants to enjoy the great pleasure of speaking evil, and the nicest evil to seak of seems to continue to be to speak evil of women. Nothing changed since when the Qur'an was revealed.
I recommend reading ayas 11 to 26 of sura An nur 24.
And again, was he raped or what? For God's sake.
Salaam