Any thoughts about this Quranic article in headcovering
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Today I found this Quran-Only article about female modesty.
http//www.detailedquran.com/quran_data/The%20Quranic%20dress%20code%20for%20women.htm
Just like other Koranic modesty article, I thought it would mention that hijab is not needed. When I actually read it, I was surprised that they believe headcovering is fard based on Qu'ran.
In my opinion, the author does have some 'point' about the interpretation especially the context but how do we know if the women at that time wore khimar on their heads 24/7 with every single hair strands hidden? I doubt about the assumption on how they wore the khimar especially after this verse 2431 came out (like do they remove khimar from the head all together? use part of the cloth? loosen up the headcovering? etc)
Is there is any good evidence about how women at that time wore khimar or cover themselves after 2431 that contradicts mainstream modesty interpretation of Islam.
Or perhaps any ways to refute this article? -
Yes there is - if you look at middle eastern women - that is the way they have been wearing the "headcovering" for hundreds of years. But let's be clear - this is not a religious issue, it's a cultural one. I do not know how Khamar translates to "headcovering". It can be translated to simply "veil" though.
Even if you look at the arab men, they will still wear their white "kandooras" i think they call it, and they too cover their heads. The culture seems infused with their practical desert life applications - protection from the sun, the black rope tied on the head cover to be used to tie their camels while they rested etc, and that culture has survived, even though the majority of them don't live in the open desert anymore - they still wear the same dress code.
Any native arabic speaker around here? he/she could confirm this. Of course someone clear from sectarian bias - which is hard to find...
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Yes there is - if you look at middle eastern women - that is the way they have been wearing the "headcovering" for hundreds of years. But let's be clear - this is not a religious issue, it's a cultural one. I do not know how Khamar translates to "headcovering". It can be translated to simply "veil" though.
Even if you look at the arab men, they will still wear their white "kandooras" i think they call it, and they too cover their heads. The culture seems infused with their practical desert life applications - protection from the sun, the black rope tied on the head cover to be used to tie their camels while they rested etc, and that culture has survived, even though the majority of them don't live in the open desert anymore - they still wear the same dress code.
Any native arabic speaker around here? he/she could confirm this. Of course someone clear from sectarian bias - which is hard to find...
I agree with you that khimar was a cultural garment rather than religious mandate. I am just having trouble about this mainstream interpretation, because they will assume that head covering is mandated even if khimar was translated to veil through the context on how women at that time wore. The context from the verse is my main concern.
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I saw the article long ago. His main arguement is that Khimar mean headscarf and cite evidence from Lisan al arab. But after ruminating over it for days, i rejected his interpretation.
Even if we are to accept that Khimar is an head scarf, why isn't hair indicated in this verse? A woman can use a scarf while letting out much of her hair. In this case, hair has to be indicated in this verse, otherwise it is not a command to cover the hair. Thus, when the arab women heard this verse, their focus was on their bosom/cleavage, not their hair. (Reports exist that the arab women normally reveal their cleavage)
Also, covering the indicated path is what matter, what is used to cover it doesn't matter provided the aim is achieved.
Lastly, Lisan al arab is not always right. It carries the distorted or later interpretations of arabic terms before and during Quran revealation.
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Yes there is - if you look at middle eastern women - that is the way they have been wearing the "headcovering" for hundreds of years.
Even if you look at the arab men, they will still wear their white "kandooras" i think they call it, and they too cover their heads. The culture seems infused with their practical desert life applications - protection from the sun, the black rope tied on the head cover to be used to tie their camels while they rested etc, and that culture has survived, even though the majority of them don't live in the open desert anymore - they still wear the same dress code.
+1
The debate of 'female head covering' has existed for more than 2000 years and it exist ONLY in middle east.
A depiction from "Other Middle Eastern Group".
The origin of the tradition lies in the Sotah ritual, a ceremony described in the Bible that tests the fidelity of a woman accused of adultery. According to the Torah, the priest uncovers or unbraids the accused woman's hair as part of the humiliation that precedes the ceremony (Numbers 51. From this, the Talmud (Ketuboth 72) concludes that under normal circumstances hair covering is a biblical requirement for women.
In the Talmud (Berakhot 24a), the rabbis define hair as sexually erotic (ervah), and prohibit men from praying in sight of a woman's hair. The rabbis base this estimation on a biblical verse "Your hair is like a flock of goats" (Song of Songs 41), suggesting that this praise reflects the sensual nature of hair. However, it is significant to note that in this biblical context the lover also praises his beloved's face, which the rabbis do not obligate women to cover. Though not all would agree, the late medieval commentator, the Mordecai, explains that these rabbinic definitions of modesty--even though they are derived from a biblical verse--are based on subjective communal norms that may change with time.
Throughout the Middle Ages, Jewish authorities reinforced the practice of covering women's hair, based on the obligation derived from the Sotah story. Maimonides does not include hair covering in his list of the 613 commandments, but he does rule that leaving the house without a chador, the communal standard of modesty in Arabic countries, is grounds for divorce (Laws of Marriage 2412). The Shulhan Arukh records that both married and unmarried women should cover their hair in public (Even Haezer 212), yet the Ashkenazic rulings emphasize that this obligation relates only to married women. The Zohar further entrenches the tradition by describing the mystical importance of women making sure that not a single hair is exposed.
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So 613 laws when the real decree can virtually be counted on your fingers.
Be of one with God
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He started out nicely, but then went downhill. What the hell is this?
The first reason is that the urge to show off physically is a powerful and recognisable female trait; can women not control themselves enough to not show off?
ohypno
Showing off physically is very subjective, it depends what people consider what is very showy and what is normal for clothing. Women who wears hijab or niqaab can still 'show off' in a different way. When I was in Middle East, I saw a bunch of women wearing abayas holding luxuries handbags from the designer label. It would not be a big deal there but, they will be considered 'showy' in other places.
Plus, there is a difference between showing off and looking pleasant. I don't know how I am showing off by wearing t-shirt and jeans with my hair showing. I mean, what is wrong with looking good as long you don't get serious attention in public? -
That reasoning is true. Excessive modesty or piety can be turning over to the negative if it is used to make a clear expression to wish to show that one is pious.
Jesus somewhat tried to convey that message as well. He also talked about the same when concerning ritualistic prayers and "Pagans and their many words", and exaggerated piety and display of reverence may in fact simply be to please one's ego.
Be of one with God
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...When I was in Middle East, I saw a bunch of women wearing abayas holding luxuries handbags from the designer label. It would not be a big deal there but, they will be considered 'showy' in other places.
It still is that way.
Plus, there is a difference between showing off and looking pleasant. I don't know how I am showing off by wearing t-shirt and jeans with my hair showing. I mean, what is wrong with looking good as long you don't get serious attention in public?
Looking pleasant and showing off aside, the point the Quran makes, is that it is not purity to dress up in a way, that spells out sex appeal. Whether you cover your hair or not does not matter, the face and hair are apparent features that allows people to recognize a person. The Quran is explicit as to what you ought to cover in addition to usual clothing.
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Those women with luxurious handbags could just as well walk around half-naked. They shine with the same kind of integrity and status seeker behavior like their more revealing counterparts. They missed the point that modesty has to do with not making a display of yourself. About humbleness and avoid pride over ego and to erase the desire for confirmation.
Be of one with God
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Some say head covering is required, and some say it is not. In my opinion from what I have read so far from both sides, it is not required, but I am scared. What if it is? Anyway, my family wont let me and I am used to it, but I hate it because I am forced by people and I hate being forced even if I like that thing personally. The only times I wish I did not have to wear it is when it is too hot or it is too cold, but I will decide about it when I am sure what Gods says about it in Qur'an.
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If you are unsure and feel that wearing it means you are on the safe side, then by all means do so! there is nothing wrong with it at all! The point as I have mentioned earlier is the same.
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Showing off physically is very subjective, it depends what people consider what is very showy and what is normal for clothing. Women who wears hijab or niqaab can still 'show off' in a different way. When I was in Middle East, I saw a bunch of women wearing abayas holding luxuries handbags from the designer label. It would not be a big deal there but, they will be considered 'showy' in other places.
Plus, there is a difference between showing off and looking pleasant. I don't know how I am showing off by wearing t-shirt and jeans with my hair showing. I mean, what is wrong with looking good as long you don't get serious attention in public?I think the writer meant asset show. Can't tell if I am right. My guess comes from his lecture on clothes that go till the legs. But he has no proof that we women randomly want to show off. I agree with you that even in hijab and niqaab, it is possible to be showy. Likely to happen once reached the destination.
Some say head covering is required, and some say it is not. In my opinion from what I have read so far from both sides, it is not required, but I am scared. What if it is? Anyway, my family wont let me and I am used to it, but I hate it because I am forced by people and I hate being forced even if I like that thing personally. The only times I wish I did not have to wear it is when it is too hot or it is too cold, but I will decide about it when I am sure what Gods says about it in Qur'an.
I would have had no problem going with hijab and niqaab if Allah mentioned "cover your hair", but he didn't. The verses emphasize bosom covering which is completely legitimate. The guy is using modern day translation of the word khimar.
Check this article http//www.detailedquran.com/quran_data/The%20Quranic%20dress%20code%20for%20women.htm
For academics and students of the Quran who study classical languages, this is of little use. For a student of the Quran, one needs to understand what is meant by a word in its classical / Quranic usage to obtain the best meaning given the context. Words often develop in languages and the best meaning of a word needs to be understood in the context that is being studied. Conversely, it is also futile to obtain a classical rendering of a term to understand what a word means in its modern usage.The Arabic word ?Khumur? does not simply imply a head-covering for women as commonly understood in its modern day usage.
It is formed from the root word ?Kha-Miim-Ra? which primarily means to ?conceal or to cover?. A veil is an example of such a covering but it is not restricted to it.
Let me touch upon our target writer's explanations.
He says
For people who say that this applies only to the wives of the prophet, does it mean that it is ok for other women to speak softly and have men in whose heart is a disease desire/yearn for them? No, there is no limiting indication on this guidance, we merely given the example of the wives of the prophet (?mothers? of the believers 336) because they would likely have more interaction than other women given their status as wives of the prophet.But Allah is clear that nothing can make us achieve their position. Head covering won't do a thing.
O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women provided you are righteous;3332It can be derived by analogy that men should also avoid being soft in speech so as to avoid arousing feelings in the women they speak with, this would fit in quite well with the concept of 3332, 1732 and 971
Dang, this author is trying to create a terrorized society and he is misguiding people about Quran verses.
Verse 3332 is only about Prophet's wives.
Verse 1732 does not say anything about soft speech either. Here it is And do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse. Indeed, it is ever an immorality and is evil as a way.
Verse 971 is self explanatory and it has nothing to do with soft speech The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Those - Allah will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.Women must not display/show off their beauty (those parts which contribute to their beauty), except what unintentionally becomes apparent. This is a general guideline that must be applied to any interpretation of the dress code of women.
Thats his explanation for verse 2431. The problem is in the word beauty. The arabic word is znatahunna. In other verses, the word zinat a is used to mean adornment aka jewelry, decoration, sparkles, glow, etc. I would be glad if someone sheds light on how this word is actually used in Arabic language.
If we still try to understand his explanation we have to wonder how to define beauty. Note that he is using translation from Muhammad Sarwar with some variations he made in the verse. Yet his explanation falls short. Problem? By using his logic, he needs to answer these
- A woman can be ugly with most beautiful hands. Does this mean she should wear gloves?
- An ugly woman can also have the most beautiful voice. Does this mean she should refrain from talking in public?
- Let's say I want to practice what he is preaching. But I am a self-depreciator and I don't see beauty in me. I have this weird fear that if I call myself beautiful I will do the sin of being arrogant/ proud. That's why, he puts me in dillemma -[. Should I go around surveying people about my body to know what I need to hide? Beauty is in the eye of beholder. Only the votes from majority can help me decide.
This doesnt flow with what he is trying to preach.
except what unintentionally becomesDoes this mean if suddenly breast is exposed the woman doesn't need to guard it anymore?
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Such a case can be made, but the evidence doesn't stack up, see
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8900.msg332827#msg332827Thank you for the link, it's interesting that the tasfir stated women ripped the cloth instead of using their headcoverings to cover their breasts. So, it makes sense to translate khimar to cloth or covering.
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PEace
The covering of the head has nothing to do with hiding beauty as many want to believe. the Quran only especifically says to cover adornments, that is, that which provokes desire in men, and that is why the way of walking is also addressed in the verse.
(2431) And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity, and not to display
their charms beyond what may be apparent thereof;37 hence, let them draw
their head-coverings over their bosoms.38 And let them not display their charms to any
but their husbands, or their fathers, or their husbands' fathers, or their sons, or their husbands'
sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or those
whom they rightfully possess, or such male attendants as are beyond all sexual desire,39 or
children that are as yet unaware of women's nakedness; and let them not swing their legs so as to draw attention to their hidden charms.40I have not hear of anyone who has have an orgasm by looking at women hair. The covering of the head has a more important spiritual role, and now it applies only to the believing women.
3359
(59) O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, as well as all believing women, that
they should draw over themselves some of their outer garments this will be
more conducive to their being recognized and not annoyed.74 But
God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace!75As you see, the covering of the head has nothing to do with concealing beauty, but rather to be recognized as a Muslim woman and to be respected as such. However, nowadays, for Muslims in the west, the headscarf means being recognized and sometimes disrespected. And that is why those whose faith is weak and the hypocrites campaign so much against it.
May GOD increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.
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Thank you brother wrkmm for the explanation. I still don't think the head covering to hide hair is the main focus here. Dresses vary according to cultures. I lived in Middle East for a while and I understand that under the sun, the only thing that can save the skin and hair is the head covering. That's why, its been part of Arab, Jewish and Persian cultures for a reason. Verse 3359 doesn't seem to speak of head covering either. Its mainly about dressing up modestly. I came across a research according to which men see modestly dressed women as classy. That's why they are more respectful to them.
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Thats his explanation for verse 2431. The problem is in the word beauty. The arabic word is znatahunna. In other verses, the word zinat a is used to mean adornment aka jewelry, decoration, sparkles, glow, etc. I would be glad if someone sheds light on how this word is actually used in Arabic language.
Quran 731
O children of Adam, take your adornment at every masjid, and eat and drink, but be not excessive. Indeed, He likes not those who commit excess.www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/shownote.asp?chap=24¬e=38
Am not so good with arabic but i think if you look at Quran 731, the same word was used and most translated it as adornment. Adornment include jewelries, beautiful clothes.
So, more appropriately in 2431, adornment can't refer to what has been permitted in 731. Rather, in this context it mean sexually attractive body parts.Peace.
