Any thoughts about this Quranic article in headcovering

Armanaziz

Salamun Alaikum.

I would like to present my humble thoughts on the topic.

Below I present my understanding of verse 2431 ?

And say to the faithful women ?
?They should lower their gaze; AND
Guard their modesty AND
Not display their adornment (znatahunna) except what is apparent (ahara) of it. AND
Let them draw their scarfs (khumurihinna) over their bosoms; AND
Not display their adornment (znatahunna) except to
their husbands OR
their fathers OR
fathers of their husbands OR
their sons OR
sons of their husbands OR
their brothers OR
sons of their brothers OR
sons of their sisters OR
their women OR
what poses their right hand OR
their attendants other than the ones of desire (al-ibrati) among the fellows OR
children who are not aware of private parts (awrti) of women AND
Not strike their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment AND
Turn to Allah altogether.
O! the ones of faith ? so that you may be successful.?

(My personal translation, cross checking recommended; color and indention added. )

Now if we carefully study the verse, step by step, the following ideas emerge

Faithful women are being told to lower their gaze and guard their modesty. This is the general direction which is common to the instruction given to faithful men in 2430. So irrespective of male or female we have been told to refrain from lustful looks to members of opposite sex and also to guard our modesty (which among other things imply modest dress up.)
For the women, the Qur?an gives some additional input on how to guard modesty ?
a. Women are told to cover their bosom with their scarf (khumurihinna). Irrespective of what ?khumur? means the instruction is to cover the bosom. Even if we do understand that ?khumur? is essentially a ?head-cover? - at best we can infer from the verse that the Qur?an expects the women to have a head-cover and to cover their bosom with that. Covering the entire head / each strand of hair with this ?khumur? is clearly an unwarranted extension from this instruction.
b. Then Qur?an discusses how women should manage their adornment/beauty (znatahunna). The verse clearly distinguishes between two types of adornment/beauty ?
i. Adornment which is apparent
ii. Adornment which women are expected to conceal
c. Qur?an mandates the second type of adornment should not be displayed (or even hinted) EXCEPT in front of certain family members plus two special cases ? children who have no awareness of private aspects (awrti) of women and attendants except the ones with desire. These 2 special cases gives the insight into what type of adornment/beauty is supposed to be concealed ? it is the adornment/beauty related to the private aspects (awrti) of women which generate (sexual) desire in men.
The last exception "theri attendents except the ones of desire among the fellows" gives the faithful women the much needed flexibility to avail the services of medical practitioners who are bound by their professional ethics to not have desire towards their clients.

To sum up ? the verse distinguishes two different type of beauty/adornment of women ? 1) which is apparent and 2) which is related to the private aspects (awrti) of women that is likely to arouse desire in men. There is absolutely no restriction on displaying first type of beauty (see also 731-32); while the second type, if displayed beyond certain approved relationships, would violate the command of guarding modesty.

Since Qur?an did not go at length in defining what are the private aspects (awrti) of women ? it is implied that it is left to the faithful women themselves to decide what is their private aspects (awrti) and hence needs to be concealed and guarded. ?Cover your bosom with scurf? just serves as a example in that direction.

It is my humble suggestion that the concept of private aspects (awrti) of women varies with time and culture and hence women need to be mindful about their own culture and society to define the boundaries of allowable dress-code. Perhaps this is why our Master did not hardcode this in the divine book.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

reel

Didn't notice this one from Man of Faith

When I was in Middle East, I saw a bunch of women wearing abayas holding luxuries handbags from the designer label. It would not be a big deal there but, they will be considered 'showy' in other places.

Heehee, you are right ;D here in US, expensive handbag is taken as the "emblem" of gold digger.

Then Qur?an discusses how women should manage their adornment/beauty (znatahunna). The verse clearly distinguishes between two types of adornment/beauty ?
i. Adornment which is apparent
ii. Adornment which women are expected to conceal

To sum up ? the verse distinguishes two different type of beauty/adornment of women ? 1) which is apparent and 2) which is related to the private aspects (awrti) of women that is likely to arouse desire in men. There is absolutely no restriction on displaying first type of beauty (see also 731-32); while the second type, if displayed beyond certain approved relationships, would violate the command of guarding modesty.

That is what I thought also.

Crow

One thought I had in regard to 'drawing the headcovering to cover the chest' (with allowances for translations, of course) was sparked by the use of the term 'adornments'. The instruction is to "cover the chest and do not display your adornments to any other than ......" Later there is an instruction to not stamp the feet and draw attention to the "adornments that are hidden".

Given this, and the cultural practice (still in vogue in some places) for women to display their (or their husband's) wealth as jewelry- necklaces, anklets, etc- this makes perfect sense. One, covering one's 'adornments' (jewelry) is a step toward modesty- but it is also a step towards the personal safety of women as well. Why would you 'hide your adornments' from all but certain family members? Easy enough- those are the people you can presumably trust not to steal from you.

So, yes, 'covering the chest' is of course a part of what we consider to be modest dress, but taken as a whole it appears that the admonishment to cover up is as much a safety issue as it is a modesty issue. Women of the time did wear head coverings, and it would have been a simple thing to 'draw it across the chest' to both cover the breasts and hide whatever jewelry she might be wearing.

If one takes it a step further, say the woman in question is already wearing a garment that covers her cleavage- there is no need to 'draw the headcovering' to hide it. Since many base their belief that head scarves are required based on the need to 'draw the headcovering over the chest' (one cannot do this without a scarf, so it must be required, is the logic) the whole thing is turned upside down. Likewise, if she's wearing a large amount of jewelry around her neck of course it would be prudent to cover it up (but why wear it in the first place, if not to show it off?) but one could easily do this with a scarf around the neck- again, negating the need for a scarf over the head and/or hair.

All in all, there are perfectly good reasons to wear a head covering- but at the same time, there are perfectly good reasons not to. We have to keep in mind that to many it is considered obligatory; for others (myself included) it is not obligatory. If a woman wants to wear a full-up burqa that's her business, but I will not be one to say that it is required according to the Qur'an.

reel

Does anyone know the history of belly dance? Where did that vulgar costume of belly dance come from?

I tried to know what clothes Arabs wore before Islam was introduced to them. Something interesting I found

About Aladin's Lamp costumes Jasmine's dress based on rare drawings of pre-Islamic Middle Eastern fashion
http//2.bp.blogspot.com/-gXhkAoDQZfc/TozLzlXdWaI/AAAAAAAAANQ/MK2euIroyYo/s1600/Jasmine2.jpg

Neptin

Crucial facts.

Muhammad Asad, a sunni scholar and Quran translator confirm that 2431 is not really a command to cover the hair but the bosom. Here is his footnote on the Verse.

Muhammad Asad
"The noun khimar (of which khumur is the plural) denotes the head-covering customarily used by Arabian women before and after the advent of Islam. According to most of the classical commentators, it was worn in pre-Islamic times more or less as all ornament and was let down loosely over the wearer?s back; and since, in accordance with the fashion prevalent at the time, the upper part of a woman?s tunic had a wide opening in the front, her breasts cleavage were left bare. Hence, the injunction to cover the bosom by means of a khimar, (a term so familiar to the contemporaries of the Prophet) does not necessarily relate to the use of a khimar as such but is, rather, meant to make it clear that a woman?s breasts are not included in the concept of "what may decently be apparent" of her body and should not, therefore, be displayed.(Quran Ref 2431 )"
www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/shownote.asp?chap=24&note=38

Here is a valuable clue on Khimar

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith # 282 Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba that Aisha used to say
"When (the Verse) "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."

Although this is an hadith made up to impose face veil on women, we can infer from it what a khimar truely is.

The traditionalists insist it is a headcover. But the hadith tells us that the ladies cut their waist sheet to use as khimar. Note that the hadith did not say, "the ladies drew their headscarf", thus even a cut piece of cloth is a khimar. Such a piece of cloth can be used to cover the bosom and this is what the verse has commanded. Therefore a khimar is NOT necessarily a headscarf. Any piece of cloth can serve as a khimar to cover the bosom, be it shirt, shawl, dress, jacket etc.

Peace!

N00B

Does anyone know the history of belly dance? Where did that vulgar costume of belly dance come from?

I tried to know what clothes Arabs wore before Islam was introduced to them. Something interesting I found

About Aladin's Lamp costumes Jasmine's dress based on rare drawings of pre-Islamic Middle Eastern fashion
http//2.bp.blogspot.com/-gXhkAoDQZfc/TozLzlXdWaI/AAAAAAAAANQ/MK2euIroyYo/s1600/Jasmine2.jpg

Interesting
I found a link on explanation of pre-Islamic clothing (sources are not listed though)
http//www.exploring-islam.com/implication-of-the-word-khimar.html

and another one (just for pictures only, this article is bias)
http//freethoughtblogs.com/taslima/2012/07/07/women-had-more-rights-in-pre-islamic-period/

As for belly-dance, there are many theories about it's origin, it's not fully known yet.
Here are the origins

"The origin of bellydance is an actively debated subject among dance enthusiasts. Some of the most popular theories include the following

It descended from a religious dance that was performed during fertility rituals by temple priestesses. As early as 1000 B.C., temple engravings depicting dancers have been found in Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Greece.
It arose out of the dance that was associated with childbirth. It prepared girls for labor and was part of the delivery ritual.
It descended from ancient Egyptian social dances.
It originated in India over 5000 years ago, and had spread through out the Middle East with the migrations of the Gypsy tribes also called Roma in Europe, Ghawazee in Egypt, and Nawar in India. The Gypsies eventually reached Europe where one of the most famous Gypsy dance styles was born - Flamenco. Many moves in modern Flamenco are still very similar to bellydance.

Perhaps the richness of Middle Eastern dance tradition and its universal appeal can be attributed to the blending of many various sources, cultures, and dance styles."

Source http//www.aleenah.com/history.html

N00B

Crucial facts.

Muhammad Asad, a sunni scholar and Quran translator confirm that 2431 is not really a command to cover the hair but the bosom. Here is his footnote on the Verse.

Muhammad Asad
"The noun khimar (of which khumur is the plural) denotes the head-covering customarily used by Arabian women before and after the advent of Islam. According to most of the classical commentators, it was worn in pre-Islamic times more or less as all ornament and was let down loosely over the wearer?s back; and since, in accordance with the fashion prevalent at the time, the upper part of a woman?s tunic had a wide opening in the front, her breasts cleavage were left bare. Hence, the injunction to cover the bosom by means of a khimar, (a term so familiar to the contemporaries of the Prophet) does not necessarily relate to the use of a khimar as such but is, rather, meant to make it clear that a woman?s breasts are not included in the concept of "what may decently be apparent" of her body and should not, therefore, be displayed.(Quran Ref 2431 )"
www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/shownote.asp?chap=24&note=38

Here is a valuable clue on Khimar

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith # 282 Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba that Aisha used to say
"When (the Verse) "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."

Although this is an hadith made up to impose face veil on women, we can infer from it what a khimar truely is.

The traditionalists insist it is a headcover. But the hadith tells us that the ladies cut their waist sheet to use as khimar. Note that the hadith did not say, "the ladies drew their headscarf", thus even a cut piece of cloth is a khimar. Such a piece of cloth can be used to cover the bosom and this is what the verse has commanded. Therefore a khimar is NOT necessarily a headscarf. Any piece of cloth can serve as a khimar to cover the bosom, be it shirt, shawl, dress, jacket etc.

Peace!

Thanks for the links, Neptin.
They wore khimar just like the way South Asian women wear dupatta.
I knew they must had not wore khimar on their heads
with every single hair strand covered 24/7.

Aniy_Yirah

Wearing a head covering was actually the beginning of my spiritual journey about 5 years ago. I feel it has helped me to try to put God first in my life everyday, by taking my focus off of worldly things. Naturally, there was a progression, because more modest clothing became the norm, then shunning makeup, perfumes and jewelry. Eventually, I tired of even buying "fashionable" modest outfits and just went straight for a simple abaya and plain amira hijab. The effect has crossed over to other aspects of my life as well. I find myself wanting less from this world. In fact, I find myself really disliking this world. I hope I am explaining this well. What I really am trying to say is that I cover to save myself, from myself. I don't think I could have continued my search for truth, or achieved the peace I have today without covering.
I still am unsure if it is a requirement from God, based in both Quran and Bible, but I think it will always be something I do.

JavaLatte

Welcome to the forum, sister Aniy Yirah!

Salm. group

Crow

Wearing a head covering was actually the beginning of my spiritual journey about 5 years ago. I feel it has helped me to try to put God first in my life everyday, by taking my focus off of worldly things. Naturally, there was a progression, because more modest clothing became the norm, then shunning makeup, perfumes and jewelry. Eventually, I tired of even buying "fashionable" modest outfits and just went straight for a simple abaya and plain amira hijab. The effect has crossed over to other aspects of my life as well. I find myself wanting less from this world. In fact, I find myself really disliking this world. I hope I am explaining this well. What I really am trying to say is that I cover to save myself, from myself. I don't think I could have continued my search for truth, or achieved the peace I have today without covering.
I still am unsure if it is a requirement from God, based in both Quran and Bible, but I think it will always be something I do.

Welcome, sister, and thank you for sharing your story. This is a concise example of something I have touched on in talking with others; the gradual incorporation of the teachings of Allah into our lives as opposed to waking up one day and filling ourselves with false expectations that we can do everything perfectly the first time and every time. Take one thing, do it well, then add another thing and do that well, and so on until it's all second nature to you. You go, sister, and wear whatever strengthens you and comforts you in your search for the peace of Allah. Wear it because you have researched it and think it's right for you- not because someone tells you to do it 'or else'. May the blessings of Allah be upon you and your loved ones.

N00B

Wearing a head covering was actually the beginning of my spiritual journey about 5 years ago. I feel it has helped me to try to put God first in my life everyday, by taking my focus off of worldly things. Naturally, there was a progression, because more modest clothing became the norm, then shunning makeup, perfumes and jewelry. Eventually, I tired of even buying "fashionable" modest outfits and just went straight for a simple abaya and plain amira hijab. The effect has crossed over to other aspects of my life as well. I find myself wanting less from this world. In fact, I find myself really disliking this world. I hope I am explaining this well. What I really am trying to say is that I cover to save myself, from myself. I don't think I could have continued my search for truth, or achieved the peace I have today without covering.
I still am unsure if it is a requirement from God, based in both Quran and Bible, but I think it will always be something I do.

Thanks for sharing the story!
I like how you wear for youself rather than people around you. Wearing garmet that is associated with religion is one of the many ways to help your faith.
I just want to say that this topic is not about anti-hijab or hatred towards hijabis. It is
about questioning certian interpretation thay says hijab is fard.
Hijabis who found out wearing hijab is not fard don't have to remove hijab all of the sudden and keep it for their faith. Wearing hijab does not contradict Quran.

Neptin

Welcome Aniy Yirah

From my analysis, i think it is the sanctity, the respect the society accord to the garment that gives the wearer that feeling and not the garment itself.

Beards for instance is often construed for piety, social maturity and responsibility, many guys testify to feeling a lot mature, disciplined and responsible once they stop trimming their beards.

Outside the religion zone, this trend can be observed. Most men report a feeling of confidence, respect, discipline and maturity once they put on the suit than just a shirt and trouser. The same goes for women too.

The feelings that comes with wearing these garments aren't from the garment but the sanctity, respect etc accorded to these garments. Once you break off this societal mindset, you are who you are, you go for what you want regardless of your appearance.

Rahid27898

Interesting
I found a link on explanation of pre-Islamic clothing (sources are not listed though)
http//www.exploring-islam.com/implication-of-the-word-khimar.html

and another one (just for pictures only, this article is bias)
http//freethoughtblogs.com/taslima/2012/07/07/women-had-more-rights-in-pre-islamic-period/

As for belly-dance, there are many theories about it's origin, it's not fully known yet.
Here are the origins

"The origin of bellydance is an actively debated subject among dance enthusiasts. Some of the most popular theories include the following

It descended from a religious dance that was performed during fertility rituals by temple priestesses. As early as 1000 B.C., temple engravings depicting dancers have been found in Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Greece.
It arose out of the dance that was associated with childbirth. It prepared girls for labor and was part of the delivery ritual.
It descended from ancient Egyptian social dances.
It originated in India over 5000 years ago, and had spread through out the Middle East with the migrations of the Gypsy tribes also called Roma in Europe, Ghawazee in Egypt, and Nawar in India. The Gypsies eventually reached Europe where one of the most famous Gypsy dance styles was born - Flamenco. Many moves in modern Flamenco are still very similar to bellydance.

Perhaps the richness of Middle Eastern dance tradition and its universal appeal can be attributed to the blending of many various sources, cultures, and dance styles."

Source http//www.aleenah.com/history.html

This picture cannot be from pre-islamic world, you know why? because papers were popularised during islamic golden age

N00B

This picture cannot be from pre-islamic world, you know why? because papers were popularised during islamic golden age

Which picture are you reffering to?

Rahid27898

Which picture are you reffering to?

Maybe you removed those? o

N00B

Maybe you removed those?

I don't think I modify any picture, are you referring to the images from reel's post or the links I had posted? confused

Rahid27898

Does anyone know the history of belly dance? Where did that vulgar costume of belly dance come from?

I tried to know what clothes Arabs wore before Islam was introduced to them. Something interesting I found

About Aladin's Lamp costumes Jasmine's dress based on rare drawings of pre-Islamic Middle Eastern fashion
http//2.bp.blogspot.com/-gXhkAoDQZfc/TozLzlXdWaI/AAAAAAAAANQ/MK2euIroyYo/s1600/Jasmine2.jpg

I was talking about these.

reel

Click on the pic to copy down its link. It was not about Islam. The blog was talking about the fairy tale character.