I am unsure about these...?
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Salaam all,
I apologise for this being so long. Soon after I joined this site, I read the Qu'ran, and made notes of certain ayats that I was unsure about, or to be honest, uneasy with. I have been reading a lot on this site and on what people have to say in regards to their understanding of the Qu'ran, but I was wondering if someone could offer any advice on these in particular? I unfortunately do not understand Arabic (it's on my 'to learn' list, hopefully sometime in the near future) so I am going by the Monotheistic Translation for the references.
Ayat 242-Lashing of adulterers?
A lot of people have claimed that Islam is a violent religion that condones stoning, whipping and killing, and I've been trying to find information that refutes this.
I have found that stoning is not mentioned in Qu'ran, and that killing is only in self-defence, though forgiveness is preferred. However 242 states that adulterers/adulteresses should be given 100 lashes each.The reason why I am asking about this is because I have been watching interviews with Muslim converts, and several times they have said that Islam teaches us to follow the laws of the land, and that's why they are happy to follow the laws of the country and not the ones like lashing. However, I cannot see anything that tells us to follow other laws than that of Qu'ran?
As you can imagine, I am strongly against adultery-I can not understand how someone could betray the one they love like that-but I personally cannot agree with whipping someone for it. I would like to just believe that although that is the punishment listed, God would prefer us to forgive....
Ayat 415-Locking women inside the house?
From what I understand, if a woman commits lewdness (which I am assuming will differ from culture to culture, and even between people) and there are four witnesses brought against her, then she is to be locked inside her house until she dies or until 'God makes for them a way out.'
As a woman, this makes me a little nervous, even though I try to actively avoid behaving in a way that could be construed as 'lewd.'I thought this may have something to do with adultery and as a way to provide proof-for example, if a woman is accused of adultery, by keeping her in her home, any pregnancy or illness that follows could be used as evidence that she slept with someone else, and the isolation could therefore be used to avoid any harassment she may encounter or to prevent spreading the illness before she recovers.
However, if this was the case, we have modern technology that can identify these issues quite quickly and discreetly, so I'm wondering if I'm way off on this interpretation of the ayat...?
Ayat 2196- Haj?
'And conclude the Pilgrimage and the visit for God. But, if you are prevented, then provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination.
Whoever of you is ill or has an ailment to his head, then he may redeem by fasting or giving a charity or a rite. But if you are secure, then whoever makes the visit, but decides to continue until the Pilgrimage, then he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten - this is for those whose family is not resident at the Restricted Temple. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.'I have read some very logical responses to the idea that Haj is not an Islamic pilgrimage, but rather a result of pagan practices being blended with Islam, but if so, I have no idea how to take the above verses, especially the shaving head part.
95-Killing of Polytheists?
Is this ayat only applicable if polytheists attack and you are defending yourself? I am a little confused by this verse because of 2256 and 1096 saying that you cannot force anyone into Islam and that we each have our own system of belief. Then again, I have read arguments against salat meaning contact prayer and rather a way of being, which I agree with, but then this verse makes even less sense to me...3669-No Poetry?
I really think I am taking this too literally. When they say we did not teach him poetry, are they referring to pagan practices/spells which can be long and poetic, or actual poetry that people write for entertainment? I can't see how they would mean just regular poetry....4633-Revival of the Dead?
I don't think God revives people just because he can, but I wonder if this then could explain people who die in accidents and then suddenly come back to live after several minutes completely healthy? Maybe God has something in store for them??474-Prisoners?
So, rather than outright killing the people who are fighting against you, if you capture them, you can use them as ransom or just release them after the fighting ceases? I guess this is a preferable option to just killing them, if you can save their lives, and release them when it's safe...I know I'm probably misunderstanding a lot of what I have asked about. I am trying very hard to read as much as I can, and hear others' interpretations and see what I understand or what I feel I agree with. I am also reading the Qu'ran again to try and understand it for myself, but I feel very lost and I don't know if what I understand of it is what is actually written, or if I am just putting my own wishes and thoughts over it.
Another reason why I am asking this is because as we all know, Islam is currently being degraded and insulted left, right and centre, and is being portrayed as a violent, barbaric religion. From what I have learned so far, the violence, oppression of women, etc is a result of twisting Qu'ranic verses and of putting ahadith above the Qu'ran in importance. I really want to learn more about the true Islam, and how it is not what people say it is. From what I've read and seen on this site, Islam is not so much a religious system so much as a way of being, and if it really was such a violent religion, then why are so many people converting to it?
If I've offended anyone with my understanding of certain things, I apologise, it is not my intention. I'm still very new to all of this, and by putting my opinions/thoughts out in the open, I hope to learn more and increase my understanding.
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As you can imagine, I am strongly against adultery-I can not understand how someone could betray the one they love like that-but I personally cannot agree with whipping someone for it. I would like to just believe that although that is the punishment listed, God would prefer us to forgive....
Your feel of sympathy is answered in the second sentence of Ayah.
And softness of heart/feeling of sympathy for both of them should not seize you people in executing the Code of Conduct prescribed by Allah the Exalted if you were truly believing in Allah the Exalted and the Last Day.
Note this command exhibits that in Allah's knowledge true Believers are too soft hearted and sympathetic but it does not remain a virtue if commands are violated.
Punishment is precribed for a woman and man who were held guilty of illicit sexual intercourse which got witnessed by four people. It was not intercourse inside privacies but was rather a public affair, liable to criminal cognizance and criminal justice in a Muslim state.
The woman held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse and the man held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse , thereby you the state/executive authority responsible to execute the judgments of courts flog, each of them two, one hundred times, the object of flogging being restricted to the skin not excoriation.
And the last sentence of Ayah shows that objective is more for abhorrence of the act than the physical torture.
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Peace be with you.
242
In a multi-religious society, criminal penalties in the Qur'an are only applicable where everyone including non-muslims approve it in the constitution otherwise a neutral penalty not borrowed from any religion is to be adopted.415
I believe this is more like restraining their women to forestall repeating the act. It is not imprisonment but a sort of rehab. Remember that the next verse orders us to forgive them once they repent.95
You read this verse in isolation. Read from verse 1 to 29. Those polytheists had commited gross crimes like killing, persecuting looting, vandalism(913), violating a peace treaty. For these crimes they were to be fought. If they embrace Islam they may be spare. But to compel them embrace Islam is not why they are being fought. They are being fought as punishment for their atrocities.I 'll address the rest later. I guess you are a recent convert. I think many embrace mainstream/orthodox/traditional Islam because they only see the bright part of it. They are ignorant of controversial aspects of it like death for apostasy, fighting of polytheists till they embrace Islam, slavery and many others sanctioned in orthodox Islamic texts.
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Peace Seeking,
The inconsistency to what you expect from a higher power is due to that people have either been unable to comprehend what they read and/or only guessed. Do not be frightened if you think it says lock women in or other weird stuff for that nonsense I have noticed is just from improper interpretation.
Verily lot of people just take it that it would seem God stands for immorality and it can be hard to understand how people can let themselves be deluded without checking harder.
Be of one with God
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Please, read ttentively all the ayas in sura 14 up to 26. The whole thing should make sense to you. The unlawful fornication is a grave deed but God is not particularly interested in punishing that it is what comes after, slandering of virtuous people particularly woen what is the object of the condemnation and cursing.
However since in fact unlawful fornication is indeed bad, it fixes a punishment which practically uncarrieble since the ONLY means of proof is four witnesses of the deed. On the other hand, much as anybody may be convinced of somebody else being guilty of adultery or unlawful fornication and however many circumstantial proofs of it there may be, nothing can be done because the only proof of it is four witnesses, and if anybody says so and so is guilty of fornication and brings not four witnesses, thhat person him or herself is liable to 80 lashes. So the whole thing is meant to make people not speak ill of the intimacy of others. Read all the ayas, do nto stop where it ends the adultery thing and you will see.
As to 4.15 it is prepposterous to understand any imprisonment of it. It apeaks about prostitution, public prostitution, and it commands to take thew women who do it off the street and into the houses and upkeep them till they find other means of subsistence or till death. It is a social measure, becuse prostitution of that kind is done for subsistence not for fun. As someody has said it is a measure of public welfare not a punishment.
Salaam
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peace,
For 2196 I recommend
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.html
then http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlFor chapter 95 I recommend
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm -
Peace be with you.
242
In a multi-religious society, criminal penalties in the Qur'an are only applicable where everyone including non-muslims approve it in the constitution otherwise a neutral penalty not borrowed from any religion is to be adopted.415
I believe this is more like restraining their women to forestall repeating the act. It is not imprisonment but a sort of rehab. Remember that the next verse orders us to forgive them once they repent.95
You read this verse in isolation. Read from verse 1 to 29. Those polytheists had commited gross crimes like killing, persecuting looting, vandalism(913), violating a peace treaty. For these crimes they were to be fought. If they embrace Islam they may be spare. But to compel them embrace Islam is not why they are being fought. They are being fought as punishment for their atrocities.I 'll address the rest later. I guess you are a recent convert. I think many embrace mainstream/orthodox/traditional Islam because they only see the bright part of it. They are ignorant of controversial aspects of it like death for apostasy, fighting of polytheists till they embrace Islam, slavery and many others sanctioned in orthodox Islamic texts.
Thank you for your advice and explanations! Actually I haven't converted yet-I am considering converting, but I really am still just studying and learning what I can. It probably sounds stupid, but I feel nervous about converting when I really don't understand anything about Islam...
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Your feel of sympathy is answered in the second sentence of Ayah.
And softness of heart/feeling of sympathy for both of them should not seize you people in executing the Code of Conduct prescribed by Allah the Exalted if you were truly believing in Allah the Exalted and the Last Day.
Note this command exhibits that in Allah's knowledge true Believers are too soft hearted and sympathetic but it does not remain a virtue if commands are violated.
Punishment is precribed for a woman and man who were held guilty of illicit sexual intercourse which got witnessed by four people. It was not intercourse inside privacies but was rather a public affair, liable to criminal cognizance and criminal justice in a Muslim state.
The woman held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse and the man held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse , thereby you the state/executive authority responsible to execute the judgments of courts flog, each of them two, one hundred times, the object of flogging being restricted to the skin not excoriation.
And the last sentence of Ayah shows that objective is more for abhorrence of the act than the physical torture.
But the only situation where the whipping would actually take place would be in a place where the population was Muslim only, and where four eye witnesses had been brought forward, right?
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Peace Seeking,
The inconsistency to what you expect from a higher power is due to that people have either been unable to comprehend what they read and/or only guessed. Do not be frightened if you think it says lock women in or other weird stuff for that nonsense I have noticed is just from improper interpretation.
Verily lot of people just take it that it would seem God stands for immorality and it can be hard to understand how people can let themselves be deluded without checking harder.
Be of one with God
Whenever I read a verse that seems like (at first) to promote or condone acts like locking people away or whipping, I always think I'm not reading it right or that there is something that I'm missing, however as I can only rely on the English translations I feel I should ask others so that I don't come up with weird conclusions (as you can see in my original post. I can see why you said learning Arabic is a good idea for studying the Qu'ran-I can see how Islam has been twisted and how people can misunderstand what is actually written. If we just rely on translations or don't try to understand the verses through reading it for ourselves and reflecting on what has been written, it's easy to misunderstand.)
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Please, read ttentively all the ayas in sura 14 up to 26. The whole thing should make sense to you. The unlawful fornication is a grave deed but God is not particularly interested in punishing that it is what comes after, slandering of virtuous people particularly woen what is the object of the condemnation and cursing.
However since in fact unlawful fornication is indeed bad, it fixes a punishment which practically uncarrieble since the ONLY means of proof is four witnesses of the deed. On the other hand, much as anybody may be convinced of somebody else being guilty of adultery or unlawful fornication and however many circumstantial proofs of it there may be, nothing can be done because the only proof of it is four witnesses, and if anybody says so and so is guilty of fornication and brings not four witnesses, thhat person him or herself is liable to 80 lashes. So the whole thing is meant to make people not speak ill of the intimacy of others. Read all the ayas, do nto stop where it ends the adultery thing and you will see.
As to 4.15 it is prepposterous to understand any imprisonment of it. It apeaks about prostitution, public prostitution, and it commands to take thew women who do it off the street and into the houses and upkeep them till they find other means of subsistence or till death. It is a social measure, becuse prostitution of that kind is done for subsistence not for fun. As someody has said it is a measure of public welfare not a punishment.
Salaam
Your explanation of 242 has put my mind at ease! I knew I must not be reading it in context or that I misunderstood what was actually being said, but I couldn't figure out where I was going wrong. It makes sense though when you put it like that-having a severe punishment like whipping would be a very good deterrent for people who would otherwise consider slandering others and spreading malicious rumours about them. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me some horrible rumour about someone else, I would never have to work again....I cannot understand how people feel it's okay to say degrading lies about others, we would all be much happier if we spent more time focusing on supporting and looking after each other rather than trying to pull each other down...
When it says in 415 'a woman who commits lewdness' to refer to prostitutes, does this mean that lewdness in the Qu'ran usually refers to prostitution, or only in this case? (Sorry, I wish I could read Arabic the more I try to understand the Qu'ran...)
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peace,
For 2196 I recommend
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.html
then http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlFor chapter 95 I recommend
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htmThank you for these links! I have had a quick look at them, but I will hopefully be able to sit down and go through them in detail very soon!
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Thank you for helping me to increase my understanding of the Qu'ran!
As I mentioned in a previous reply, I still haven't converted yet as I am still unsure of practically everything (not the legitimacy of what I'm learning, but rather I am unsure of my understanding and of what I should do/not do...) but I am trying to learn what I can by reading this site, and reading the Qu'ran.I also prayed for the first time this morning (I admit, I didn't do it at dawn, but I did do ablution to the best of my understanding of how to wash, I read the first surah from the Qu'ran and then prayed. I don't know if I did it correctly (I was kneeling on the floor as I read, and then when I prayed I prostrated) but I hope that I can continue to pray (on time!) and receive some guidance.
From what I understand, the current shahada that you must say at masjids to convert is not actually in the Qu'ran, and can even be classified as shirk as Mohammed's name is mentioned alongside Allah's, but I am unsure as how to convert, I guess, 'officially?' I think I read in Qu'ran as to what I should say to prove my faith, but do I need any witnesses or anything? I looked up a masjid near where I live, but for some reason they require three passport sized photos of me if I want to convert at their masjid, which seems strange....I do want to visit the masjid though (for one thing, from what I've seen in photos, the architecture is stunning!) and to meet the Islamic community-there aren't many Muslims where I live, so I would like to meet them and to learn a little more about them.
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Thank you for helping me to increase my understanding of the Qu'ran!
As I mentioned in a previous reply, I still haven't converted yet as I am still unsure of practically everything (not the legitimacy of what I'm learning, but rather I am unsure of my understanding and of what I should do/not do...) but I am trying to learn what I can by reading this site, and reading the Qu'ran.I like your style, look before you leap. Separate the grains from the shaft.
There are always adulterations in every religion, but God protect his true message for those with Good will(2252-54).I also prayed for the first time this morning (I admit, I didn't do it at dawn, but I did do ablution to the best of my understanding of how to wash, I read the first surah from the Qu'ran and then prayed. I don't know if I did it correctly (I was kneeling on the floor as I read, and then when I prayed I prostrated) but I hope that I can continue to pray (on time!) and receive some guidance.
I do mine by reciting while standing, then i bow and then prostrate while glorifying God.
From what I understand, the current shahada that you must say at masjids to convert is not actually in the Qu'ran, and can even be classified as shirk as Mohammed's name is mentioned alongside Allah's, but I am unsure as how to convert, I guess, 'officially?' I think I read in Qu'ran as to what I should say to prove my faith, but do I need any witnesses or anything? I looked up a masjid near where I live, but for some reason they require three passport sized photos of me if I want to convert at their masjid, which seems strange....I do want to visit the masjid though (for one thing, from what I've seen in photos, the architecture is stunning!) and to meet the Islamic community-there aren't many Muslims where I live, so I would like to meet them and to learn a little more about them.
3 passport size photos? Lol. There is no need for a witness. Islam is a relationship between God and you. God is enough as witness. The correct shahada is in 318, if you go to this masjid, they 'll have you recite the wrong shahada and if you do not comply with them, it could turn bad.
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I would say there is nothing called converting to Islam. There is no difference from being real "Christian" (declaring that Jesus is not a son of God) either. Just put your trust in God and follow the thousands of years old decree which many people already do without thinking and focus upon behavior and deed. Quran may be a help but not the world's disaster if you do not read, since the behavioral part is already very elaborated upon by Jesus in the Gospel testimonies written by the witnesses of the events of him. Quran at best confirms his words and deliver a lot of allegorical stories.
Be of one with God
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Your explanation of 242 has put my mind at ease! I knew I must not be reading it in context or that I misunderstood what was actually being said, but I couldn't figure out where I was going wrong. It makes sense though when you put it like that-having a severe punishment like whipping would be a very good deterrent for people who would otherwise consider slandering others and spreading malicious rumours about them. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me some horrible rumour about someone else, I would never have to work again....I cannot understand how people feel it's okay to say degrading lies about others, we would all be much happier if we spent more time focusing on supporting and looking after each other rather than trying to pull each other down...
When it says in 415 'a woman who commits lewdness' to refer to prostitutes, does this mean that lewdness in the Qu'ran usually refers to prostitution, or only in this case? (Sorry, I wish I could read Arabic the more I try to understand the Qu'ran...)
Indeed it is very worthwhile to look very carefully the ayas en sur Anmur up to 26. The thrust is against slandering and particularly the slandering of women.
Look at aya 24.13
It says if the they did not bring four witnesses they are the liers. It is worthwhile pondering, because even if you have seen it happen and you do not bring four witnessess, you are the lier. Do you realise the firmness and strength of God's position on this matter? And look at how many times in so little space He insists on that were it not for His mercy and His favour... That He knows but we do not know...
The import of these ayas is that a woman who may be a mother of ten children of unknown father or unrecognizing father or different fathers, if four witnesses are not brought, SHE IS AN HONEST WOMAN and whoever slanders her is the lier. I do not know of any text or any mind whatsoever who takes a stronger stand for women's defense and for peoples' right to intimacy in general. God is Merciful and gives people time and space to refelct and mend.God is very Merciful and we should better take advantage of his many favours and not think that because we are not caught nothing happens. And at the begenning of th sura starting this series of ayas we are told that they are clearcut with no room for ambiguity and that they are BINDING. Can't recall a clearer or firmer assertion concerning any other instructions of the Qur'an. Adn still women keep being slandered and blamed, for dress, for this for that. It is so shocking, that God is so merciful with his women creatures and people, men and women alike, seem to be higher than God so many times and pound on women regardless.
Still you will see, in this forum too, many people attributing to women this and that when they dress this way or that way. As in 24.12
Why did not the believers - men and women - when ye heard of the affair,- put the best construction on it in their own minds and say, "This (charge) is an obvious lie"?
Or
24.23. Those who slander chaste women, indiscreet but believing, are cursed in this life and in the Hereafter for them is a grievous Penalty,- (23)
And see that He speaks about following Shaytan footsteps when doing that. It does not say so for fornication or adultery (zina) but about this slandering and dirtying of peoples minds.
Very, very important those first ayas of sura an-Nur, very important because also God insists so much on them being clear and being a favour.
Conerning 4.15
Fahisha is within everybody's reach. It is not something particular about prostitutes, but it is the whole formulation of the aya that, without excluding any other context where it might fit, it does 100% fit prostitution.
It says
As to those of your women that ya'atina (practise) fahisha... this ya'atina is verb, unfinished action, that is, it is something that is being done recurrently or habitually and still goes on. It is not talking about zina, but about fahisha, and soliciting is obviously fahisha, and if done in public, where you can get four witnesses, it means street prostitution, and therefore it sapeaks about taking the women into the houses and upkeep them there till death or till they find other means of living. May be their children grow up and can maintain them, may be they lear a trade and can earn something... But the community, which is the one addressed in the aya, must see to it that those women are not wasting in the streets for a living.
The next aya 4.16 is most likely seaking about the prostitute and the client.
So no, fahisha is not restricted to prostitutes, but in 4.15 it speaks about them as a question of social welfare and dignification of the persons and social life.
God is very keen on preserving privacy. People shoudl also do as much. Today it seems that we have made of privacy a public consumption item. But while a society should never fall into hypocrisy, because, in y view, that would be even worse the lack of privacy, privacy is a mercy of god to us. It give us room to deal with our own demons without having to answer to people, but only to ourselves and God. God knows that He has given us a life to live it to the end, that is to experience good and bad things, to make mistakes and mend them... to live whatever is our lot to sum up. So we must be mindful of using this autonomy, this leeway we have to corret ourselves, to do good, to do right where we did wrong previously, without watchers, without guardians without judges.
I would advise anybody to really read and reread very carefully those ayas of sura An-Nur and we will know how Merciful, how Wise, how caring and loving is our beloved God, particularly with His so much badhandled women.
Salaam
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Salaam Neptin,
Ever since I first became interested in Islam, I always had my doubts and worries about things in the religion. I now know that most of those worries were hadith teachings (stoning, polygamy, women are less than men, etc) but there are still things I don't know (not just the verses I originally posted, but also just simple things like the meanings of Islamic phrases. Often when I see someone refuting a tradition or practice, I often am clueless about the original practice, let alone why it's not Qu'ranic!) I would like to say the shahada in the Qu'ran sometime soon, but I still feel that I don't know enough in order to follow it faithfully...
May I ask what you mean by glorifying God in prayer? I'm very confused about praying...I just prayed again for the evening prayer, the same way I did this morning-ablution, read Qu'ran (I did this while standing this time) and then I prostrated and asked God for guidance. I really am confused about whether what I am doing is okay. I mean, reading from the Qu'ran and praying only took me about 4 minutes, and I feel like that is way too short....
The three passport photos for shahada really threw me off....I cannot understand why they need photo ID for someone to convert to Islam, short of keeping records of the Islamic community, or maybe to keep track of those who have converted, but still....photos are a little unnecessary I feel. I still really would like to visit the masjid here, if to just see the beautiful work! )
Salaam Man of Faith,
That is a good point, I hadn't thought of that. Most people claim their faith regardless of whether or not they have completed the 'official' conversion performed by a religious leader. I guess like most people, having some sort of physical act would make it feel more real to me (...and I think I have just discovered the reason why the practices in all religions have so much authority-people like formalised/traditional actions regardless of whether they are correct or not) but I shouldn't worry about traditions carried out by people, but rather my relationship with God. I really need to get myself out of this thinking that puts made-up practices above belief...
I think another reason why I would like to meet other Muslims/visit the masjid is partly due to my isolation. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I live in Japan, where the Islamic population is about, 0.001% of the entire population, so even something like buying a Qu'ran is impossible. I am Australian, so I am already fairly isolated in society (a lot of people avoid talking to me, or they don't want to sit next to me on the train. I guess this is how some hijabis feel in Australia right now, unfortunately) so I guess the idea of having somewhere to belong (even if just a little) is appealing...
I actually haven't read the Bible before...I tried when I was younger, but I got about six pages in and stopped for some reason. I would like to read about Jesus, as all I really know about him is what little I learnt from my RE classes (the same classes where the teacher got angry at me for questioning...)
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Salaam Huruf,
I do wish privacy was something people respected more these days. Now that I feel like I understand the verses a little better, I feel a lot safer with about this situation. It feels like God wants us to respect each other's privacy and to not go around spreading rumours or gossip. Considering the mass media spends half their time trying to pry into people's private lives, trying to avoid all that seems to be a good idea.
As to those of your women that ya'atina (practise) fahisha... this ya'atina is verb, unfinished action, that is, it is something that is being done recurrently or habitually and still goes on. It is not talking about zina, but about fahisha, and soliciting is obviously fahisha, and if done in public, where you can get four witnesses, it means street prostitution, and therefore it sapeaks about taking the women into the houses and upkeep them there till death or till they find other means of living. May be their children grow up and can maintain them, may be they lear a trade and can earn something... But the community, which is the one addressed in the aya, must see to it that those women are not wasting in the streets for a living.
The next aya 4.16 is most likely seaking about the prostitute and the client.
So no, fahisha is not restricted to prostitutes, but in 4.15 it speaks about them as a question of social welfare and dignification of the persons and social life.
God is very keen on preserving privacy. People shoudl also do as much. Today it seems that we have made of privacy a public consumption item. But while a society should never fall into hypocrisy, because, in y view, that would be even worse the lack of privacy, privacy is a mercy of god to us. It give us room to deal with our own demons without having to answer to people, but only to ourselves and God. God knows that He has given us a life to live it to the end, that is to experience good and bad things, to make mistakes and mend them... to live whatever is our lot to sum up. So we must be mindful of using this autonomy, this leeway we have to corret ourselves, to do good, to do right where we did wrong previously, without watchers, without guardians without judges.
Thank you for giving me the Arabic words as well! I am going to have to make a list of Arabic words that I learn here so I can have them as a reference later...
I like what you said about dealing with our own demons without having to answer to people, only ourselves and God. I feel that a lot of trouble just results from people sticking their noses where they shouldn't and complicating things further. I do feel that there are situations where talking to someone else can help (I was in a situation myself a few years back where I couldn't deal with it myself. By talking with a counsellor I was able to get past it and get back to living my life) but a lot of the time privacy does help solve the issue.
It makes me sad to see the mistreatment of women in so many places that claim to uphold Islamic beliefs. I don't understand how they feel that they are doing the right thing by discriminating against half the population...
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Spiritual harmony upon you sister Seeking,
That is a good point, I hadn't thought of that.
I think too few people think about that fact. It is the (invented) rituals or idols which actually differentiate, at least within the so-called "Abrahamic faiths", the various groups, i.e. Christians, Muslims or Jews, with their respective denominations.
I guess like most people, having some sort of physical act would make it feel more real to me
Yes. I understand that our nature causes us to prefer a concrete initiation ritual rather than something abstract. It is the same problem as to the phenomenon as treating God as an object which you can treat with physical characteristics, which is the fact when one uses the ancient custom of prostration that which requires a concrete object. But the best way of showing "God" that you have "converted" would be to improve your behavior and deeds in the light of God. It is a personal development and God helps you first if you take the initiative towards good. And the more you delve into what is good the more blessed you will feel consequentially. The misconception is that it takes a sort of submission or outright worship of God to get in God's favor but God has no ego that needs to be filled, and the practice of traditional worship has Pagan origin where you have to please the god with meaningless rituals unless that god becomes angry and, for example, destroys the annual harvest. The truth is that it takes to wander in the light to be with the spirit of God and to be assimilated into it.
I think the literal translation of the Arabic phrase "amen ba'Allah ( ه" may help you in figuring out how things are "be of one - in/with (prefix) - that it is (Allah)". It is talking about joining in with God all the time. In the Gospel Jesus says something like "Inviting you to the Kingdom of God", probably allegorically for the realm/presence of God. God takes no physical space in the universe yet omnipresent everywhere therein, meaning that you can stand in the light unconditionally wherever you are, if one becomes as one with God in behavior and deed. The scientific prophesy that the universe will implode into something like a singularity is just another hint at this "everything goes back to God" meaning you will continue exist with God in oneness, unless you are an anomaly to God, which you should understand even while the situation looks like this illusion we live in and which the prophets tried to teach beneath all those misinterpretations.
And you possess nothing in this world except that you may delude yourself into thinking this, but the "physical" body is God's; you just are made to think that you control it with your associated soul data entity which is you. So if you can sense the heart beating then you have "seen" God and the energies in the world are upheld by which is God and you sure know that the heart has an autonomous reflex mechanism which no scientists can fully explain but only observe, and yet many of them deny the existence of "God"; however most reject the traditional sectarian concept of God, but if they were better informed and not tainted by the pathetic impression of "world religions" they may have had a different opinion and had faith in a "higher power" (many actually have but do not reveal due to the question being stigmatized in the world of science). We own absolutely nothing except our soul and it is this spiritual realization which has often been the lesson of the prophets. Jesus said something like "You must separate your spirit from your body", which was a good elaboration in my opinion and that is to become aware of the importance of your soul and that your body is just something you are living with. The primary lesson is that we must see the world less materialistically and not only what our eyes can see and what our physical body's senses may cause us because they may delude us.
I really need to get myself out of this thinking that puts made-up practices above belief...
Yes. But you should also tone down on the "belief" illusion but rather the choice to join in with God, to become one with God and anything is possible and where the correct usage of "faith" comes (which is not iman); that when you are with God anything is possible, and this is why Jesus rebukes his followers "You of little faith" when they are afraid that their ship is going to sink on a turbulent sea. And he says one has faith when they think that they could move a mountain.
God has confidence and does not play by the concept of belief and the condition that God exists is natural as day and night to the extent that God does not even use this term. The only other alternative is to deny and be without knowledge (which is not 'kafar' because that means someone deluded). Because of this God needs no confirmation of existence but the precept is joining in with God, since everything in the world testifies willingly or willingly that God exists, knowingly or unknowingly (refer back to the pumping heart allegory I said). I would go so deep as to say other Arabic words are used to mark belief such as 'to think'. Traditional belief is a non-existent concept, and I work hard to show that to people, but the only choice is whether to join God and be in the light or not (refer to Jesus' preaching to "join the kingdom".
I actually haven't read the Bible before...I tried when I was younger, but I got about six pages in and stopped for some reason.
I understand that the Bible may be intimidating because it is mixed up with a lot of falsehood and actually perhaps a few percent or less of the entire narratives may actually accurately reflect the truth. One has to think "there might be some truth beneath all the falsehood", when studying it. Yet the Bible, when studying it objectively, can reveal many clues as to what Jew and Israel really were and that their location is not as definite to be in what we consider "Israel" today. And the fact is that many pages of the Bible refer to a person who lived in today's Iraq and not anywhere close to the Mediterranean Sea but more close to the Persian Gulf. And the Persian rulers had much influence on what is written therein since during much of the narration the Persian Empire stretched from India until Ethiopia in size. If you analyze the practices carefully in the 'Old Testament' you see that they are very influenced by Zoroastrianism, the historical religion of the Persians. And during the prime era of the Persian Empire they had their main temple in Shush (Shushan it is spelled in the Bible) in today's southern Iraq near the Persian Gulf (the gulf actually stretched much further up on the lands than today), and as I suspect the Persian Empire was not really having its heart in today's Iran but around the end of the Persian Gulf (main king's palaces as Persepolis (city of the Persians), Ecbatana and Shush) which can be said that the heart was more today's Iraq and the western part of Iran. At the advent of the slow fall of the might of the Persian Empire it simply became centered further and further to the east. Most, if not all, narratives regarding Persian rulers have their seat in Shush.
And Jonah was active in and around Nineveh which is further north in today's Iraq, and Abraham was supposedly born in Ur which was by the Persian Gulf at that time in Iraq. And the Bible reveals that Jews were scattered across the region and it is quite clear that they are a group of people which others can join in with and that it was the sins of their people which caused them to become divided, just as Qur'an seems to teach. "Children of Israel" were surely from a specific bloodline, but the word Jew is not derived from there. However, God also proclaims that you do not have to be a Jew to be with God but it is the assimilation with what is God and to do good which is the precept. It is only that the "Children of Israel" and Jews were chosen above other people to safeguard and receive the revelation of God which they obviously failed to uphold as you see the result of today 2014 and from historical information, and it is all due to good people like Abraham and an original covenant that this group emerged, but as you see they became arrogant without showing what they had learned and more like a sect. They are removed from their right to safeguard the decree when they no longer follow what God has taught nor stay in the Light and as you see in Qur'an, anyone who is with God and does good is walking in the Light.
I am Australian, so I am already fairly isolated in society (a lot of people avoid talking to me, or they don't want to sit next to me on the train. I guess this is how some hijabis feel in Australia right now, unfortunately) so I guess the idea of having somewhere to belong (even if just a little) is appealing...
Ummm... do you have a certain "Islamic" appeal or something that they avoid you? You are sure you are not just paranoid and people just sit elsewhere in respect to you?
I would like to read about Jesus, as all I really know about him is what little I learnt from my RE classes (the same classes where the teacher got angry at me for questioning...)
The problem is that people often put the focus on the idolization of the apparent perfect nature of Jesus rather than see him as a beacon of how a man or woman should be.
Be of one with God
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For those who identify themselves as Christians
How Bible led me to Islam
http//d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single/en_The_Bible_led_me_to_Islam.pdf
Salaam Mazhar,
I've only read a little bit of this book so far, but I've found it to be very interesting! I like how the author gives lots of quotes to make his point-it also gives me things to keep an eye out for when I start reading the Bible.
I'm not trying to speak ill of Christianity, rather read and find answers for myself. I was told not to question anything when I learnt about Christianity in school, so I'd like to find the answers I was looking for.
