Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
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peace reel, all,
Do note that birds don't fly over Kabah. They just circle around it.
False. See here for video.
For what the cuboid called Kaabah likely is, here is a good place to start
http//www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/arabic.txtNorth Arabia
Allah (al-Ilahah) "the God"
"Daughters of Allah"
Allat (Ilat) "the Goddess" Mother goddess, Goddess of
Taif (east of Mecca)
Shams Sun goddess
ash-Shiraq "the Rising One" (Male?)
Muharriq "the Burner" (Male?)
Chabou, Ka'bu Virgin Sun Mother of
Dhu-al-Shara/Dushares
al-Uzza, Lady `Uzzay-an "the Most Mighty." Planet Venus
ash-Sa'ida "The Blessed"
Azizos "the Powerful" Morning star
Monimos "the Benificent" Evening star
Manah, Manat , Maniya "Fate".
.
Dhu-al-Shara/Dhu-'sh-Shara/Dushares {Block of
black stone, 4x2} Dying god, son of the Earth
mother. Sacred day, Dec 25.
.
.Hubal Chief god of Ka'bah (Allah?)
Root entry in Lane's Lexicon for Kaf-Ayn-Ba
Quote "a house or temple belonging to the tribe of Rabee'ah, who used to compass it, or perform circuits round it (as is done round the Kabbeh of Mekkeh)".e.g. Book Mecca and Eden ritual, relics and territory in islam
p26,
Such stones, especially black stones, were used as the main cult objects for the worship of other Arabian gods. According to Epiphanius the Nabatean God Dhu-shara (Dhu al Shara) was represented by something called "khaabou" which represented the deity. The Byzantine lexicographer Suidas reports that this was a black stone, roughly square, four feet high by two feet wide. Antoninus Placentinus relates that in Sinai the local Arabs had an idol which changed from snow white to pitch black..... Ibn al Kalbi relates that a number of Arab deities were represented by stonesDiscussed in more detail here
http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/language.htme.g.
In the fourth century AD, Epiphanius, the bishop of Salamis, Cyprus wrote a letter describing cults such as the Nabataean cult and their celebration of the festival of the birth of Dhu Al-Shaara around the winter solstice. It is interesting that the birth celebrations culminated with bringing forth from beneath the earth the image of the male infant idol, which was carried seven times around the inner sanctuary of the pagan temple.
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The celebration of the idol's birth around the winter solstice is also an indication of a relationship to the sun. The present cube structure of Dhu Al-Shaara in Saudi Arabia also has evidence of its pagan purpose. For example, the cube is aligned such that the Southeast corner is in the direction of the winter sunrise. Interestingly, in that corner lies the so-called Black Stone, which is the most revered object by sectarians who love to kiss and fondle it. -
Good information, Wakas. Thanks.
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False. See here for video.
Umm, they were doing the circling thing bro. The angle of the camera makes it look like they are on the top of the kabah. Look at it again.
Kabah was damaged by flood water. Qurayshis didnt have enough fund to put it back to rectangular shape. So ended up shrinking its size, turning it into a cube. But again, history says it was renovated too many times. Who made it is debatable. But Quran says Allah guided Prophet Ibrahim to construct it in that exact place. Traditionalists like to believe it was built by Prophet Adam. It has no foundation in Quran. Western historians like to claim it was made for pagan deities first.
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Umm, they were doing the circling thing bro. The angle of the camera makes it look like they are on the top of the kabah. Look at it again.
I have watched it several times. It seems blatantly obvious to me that roughly the same amount are flying in arcs (it's difficult to pick out one bird that did a complete circle) and others are flying from one side to another, from almost all directions, sometimes opposite directions.
You make some more false statements
Qurayshis didnt have enough fund to put it back to rectangular shape. So ended up shrinking its size, turning it into a cube.
False. It is not a cube, it is a cuboid.
Also, what evidence are you referring to about Quraysh funding?
But Quran says Allah guided Prophet Ibrahim to construct it in that exact place.
False. Actually, the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah".
The cuboid called Kaabah that is in Mecca today has no Quranic evidence for it. The evidence is based on secondary sources, mixed with Quran interpolations, assumptions etc. Albeit it is the common view, but common is not equivalent to evidenced.
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The building in Mecca was a generic church-like building in the past. Its arch-shaped foundation which originally hosted a wall is aligned towards Sinai alternatively Jerusalem.
A building should never be walked around performing Pagan rituals and revered for this is in violation of the spiritual law of Moses making it an idol. A temple is supposed to be used inside as a place to go and grow spiritually.
Have faith
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I have watched it several times. It seems blatantly obvious to me that roughly the same amount are flying in arcs (it's difficult to pick out one bird that did a complete circle) and others are flying from one side to another, from almost all directions, sometimes opposite directions.
You make some more false statements
I don't see them fly over. I am looking for additional videos, but people just leave the angle of the camera towards the sky for which Kabah's part isnt showing up in them. Once I get a clear picture, I will believe it.
Qurayshis didnt have enough fund to put it back to rectangular shape. So ended up shrinking its size, turning it into a cube.
Typo there, cuboid, not cube.
Also, what evidence are you referring to about Quraysh funding?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14305.165;wap2
False. Actually, the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah".
And when We made the House a place of return for the people and security. And take, , from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, , "Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying for worship and those who bow and prostrate ." 2125
And when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and Ishmael, , "Our Lord, accept from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.2127
Example of foundation of a house (technical word of architects)
http//outbackbids.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/home-foundation.jpgAnd , when We designated for Abraham the site of the House, , "Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand and those who bow and prostrate. 2226
And proclaim to the people the Hajj ; they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every distant pass -2227
Then let them end their untidiness and fulfill their vows and perform Tawaf around the ancient House."2229
There is an entire Surah called Hajj which mentions ancient house on and on.
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Harmony reel,
Those passages do not mention any physical house. The word used does not mean house but assembly. It is ignorant people who interpreted it in the beginning. It is supposed to say Abraham laid the foundation of the first assembly, and prayed for the land to be a one of affinity.
People who read them are merely beguiled.
Sources I know indicate that Solomon built the first temple.
Have faith
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There is an entire Surah called Hajj which mentions ancient house on and on.
That may well be, but I hope you realise the seemingly small but important point I am making, which was "...the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah"."
As I said
The cuboid called Kaabah that is in Mecca today has no Quranic evidence for it. The evidence is based on secondary sources, mixed with Quran interpolations, assumptions etc. Albeit it is the common view, but common is not equivalent to evidenced.
For my view
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlOne of the interesting findings was how the Quranic evidence suggests "al bayt" (the shelter) can be a reference to a safe locality*. Much to my surprise, a good explanation for some of the traditions. What I have noticed is that generally speaking the traditions are a mix of truth and falsehood, but that does not mean everything in them is false. We can use The Quran as our criterion to determine which is which.
*Abraham brought such a place to fruition, hence us being recommended to follow his blueprint, or in Quran parlance "...take from the status (maqam) of Abraham a time/place of blessing (musalla)..."
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Peace Hawk.
A good question!
However , we humans have all sorts of weird and wonderful answers according to our weird and wonderful opinions/beliefs/lack of them...etc?
That is why GOD sends messengers!!!!!!
And we also have the choice to follow GOD and His messenger or "others"?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
That is why GOD sends messengers!!!!!!
And if people could just stop perverting information and fabricating what is not true, then those messengers who were would have been enough who already were.
But the truth is quite much easier than people want to make it. You have the old Guidelines of Moses yes? And you may have heard what Jesus had to say about them? And you have understood the parables of gaining affinity with Allah and the realm?
In case you do, then you need no additional messenger.
Have faith
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And if people could just stop perverting information and fabricating what is not true, then those messengers who were would have been enough who already were.
But people do pervert/fabricate/misunderstand, hence the need for explaining,
like we are doing now!God bless
peace
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We want explanation for we are looking for a religion. This is why.
It is not rocket science what we must do, even if one can make it like that, but then it is also easy to lose oneself in confusion and conjecture.
Have faith
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Peace Man of Faith,
Please clarify the above statement.
God bless you
peace
His idea of a religion is more of a spiritual one than a physical one, which is having many physical rituals to abide by. And that if we follow the 10 Commandments of Moses and the teachings of Jesus only, we don't really need to abide by anything else, especially in the form of physical rituals. And that it is the Muslims' obsession to turning God into an 'objectified God' and form and trying to please this God like people would to a pagan God, as though it needs mechanical rituals to produce mechanical results to people, which created much of the downfall of the Muslims. And it is the adherence of the Western world to the spiritual values and teachings of Jesus and abandoning much of the other parts of religion which caused the Western world to prosper.
Peace,
Samira
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His idea of a religion is more of a spiritual one than a physical one, which is having many physical rituals to abide by. And that if we follow the 10 Commandments of Moses and the teachings of Jesus only, we don't really need to abide by anything else, especially in the form of physical rituals. And that it is the Muslims' obsession to turning God into an 'objectified God' and form and trying to please this God like people would to a pagan God, as though it needs mechanical rituals to produce mechanical results to people, which created much of the downfall of the Muslims. And it is the adherence of the Western world to the spiritual values and teachings of Jesus and abandoning much of the other parts of religion which caused the Western world to prosper.
Peace Samira,
So in your version of Islam there is no ablution (ritual)?
No Ramadan (ritual)?
No Salat (ritual)?
No hajj (ritual)?
God Bless you
peace
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According to Man of Faith, we need to abide by the 10 commandments of Moses and the teachings of Jesus, such as in the New Testament. He says there is no ablution, Salah, and Hajj. Not sure about Ramadan though. He has a wholly different way of interpreting the Quranic scripture though from others, which could be seen as radically different. Anyway, his point is, Muhammad didn't really come with a "new" message to people, but rather repeat the same message as did the previous Prophets like Moses and Jesus. It is people who could not interpret the Quran properly, and ended up adding paganistic rituals. And the Kaaba is one paganistic structure, the Cube of Saturn apparently.
You still need to verify them yourself. Particularly the Salah part. Man of Faith says God is more looking at a person's spirit, how much they assimilate themselves with their inner divine, and how much they reduce their ego self, rather than outward rituals to "bride" God, which God has no real use for. Anyway, that is Man of Faith's interpretation.
Peace,
Samira
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That may well be, but I hope you realise the seemingly small but important point I am making, which was "...the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah"."
The cuboid called Kaabah that is in Mecca today has no Quranic evidence for it. The evidence is based on secondary sources, mixed with Quran interpolations, assumptions etc. Albeit it is the common view, but common is not equivalent to evidenced.
For my view
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlThose passages do not mention any physical house. The word used does not mean house but assembly. It is ignorant people who interpreted it in the beginning. It is supposed to say Abraham laid the foundation of the first assembly, and prayed for the land to be a one of affinity.
I saw the word bayt in the verse. I will have to do additional research to come to a proper conclusion. This is all I have right now.
http//islamawakened.com/quran/roots/files/screen-shot-2013-09-02-at-3.10.37-am.jpg
I also have to read the entire Hajj Surah. To my knowledge, Bakkah is Makkah. Scholars are the ones who for some reason think Kabbah is Bakkah. Quran rejects it and confirms Bakkah to be a city/town/location but not a house.
The first Sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakk'a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.396
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In addition to my previous post https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607054.msg359847#msg359847
Some may find this work useful. There was some interesting bits, e.g.
Quote
The Arabs who inhabited the Peninsula used to offer their hair as a sacrifice to Manāt. Interestingly, having made a pilgrimage to Al-Kaba in Mecca, the goddess’ followers believed that the hajj ritual could be deemed complete only after they also visited the goddess’ sanctuary in Kudayd. Manāt’s name, just like that of Al-Lāt and Al-‘Uzzā, was invoked during the oath taking ceremonies. The three goddesses were also worshipped in the Kuraysh’s Mecca. According to many scholars, in the pre-Muslim era the famous Al-Kaba served as the all-Arab cult centre of Al-Lāt, Al-‘Uzzā and Manāt, all of whom were later recognized as daughters of the supreme god Hubal and then Allāh, whom the Arabs were to equate with Hubal.Coincidentally there are 3 pillars inside the cuboid called Kaabah. I don't know if this is related.
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What is more interesting is that small altar. Whats its function?
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are made foul by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
Another thing is that i expected the cuboid to have 4 corners but there are 6 as if it was made purposely. Then we have those jars hanging - i think there is much more symbolism then we might think. And it can only have pagan origins.
