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  4. Oldest Qur?an manuscript MA VI 165

Oldest Qur?an manuscript MA VI 165

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • N Offline
    N Offline
    Noon_waalqalami
    wrote on last edited by
    #142

    So, the Quran from Birmingham is the same as today? Now we have evidence that Quran never changed.

    Peace, yes MA VI 165 as well (Birmingham is only two pages) which are same as today's except for verse numbering i.e. initials were not counted as separate verses and usage of alif mostly.

    e.g. the other day thought there was consistency error with missing alif in 1942 said?

    If we look carefully scribes had system to differentiate and applied consistently throughout manuscript...

    no alif if address to one person
    1942 when said to father his O father mine

    alif if referring to many people
    2152 when said to father his and folk his

    https//s27.postimg.org/wn1kjjhbn/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch19v33-v45.jpg

    https//s27.postimg.org/6srrtrhbn/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch21v43-v57.jpg

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    • R Offline
      R Offline
      reel
      wrote on last edited by
      #143

      Peace, yes MA VI 165 as well (Birmingham is only two pages) which are same as today's except for verse numbering i.e. initials were not counted as separate verses and usage of alif mostly.

      No numbering, but we can still see the divisions on the pages
      http//www.hazardlab.jp/contents/post_info/1/0/5/10504/quran.jpg

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      • N Offline
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        Noon_waalqalami
        wrote on last edited by
        #144

        No numbering, but we can still see the divisions on the pages

        Peace, there was numbering i.e. dashes at end of verses and larger markings start/end of 10 verses which scribes used as reference and to keep count/checksum; although earliest manuscripts initials had no end verse marks thus not counted/combined into single verse, e.g.

        191 kaaf ha ya ain saad (no end verse marks counted as one with next verse)
        192 remembrance mercy lord your devotee his Zakariyya

        https//s26.postimg.org/jm1leh6p5/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch18v107-ch19v7.jpg

        Here is another early 1st century AH Sana manuscript example end 9128-129 to 107

        https//s26.postimg.org/qzurinuw9/Sana_Qur_an_ch9v127-ch10v7.jpg

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        • N Offline
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          Noon_waalqalami
          wrote on last edited by
          #145

          Peace, a forum user noticed Tanzil web site, 9127, the word "yarakum" is spelled with 'ya' in the Uthmanic script spelling, and with an 'alif' in the simplified Imlaei script spelling and wanted to confirm with older manuscripts.

          There should be no alif in 9127 yarkum/seeth you (plural) same as in examples below...

          2440 yarh/seeth it
          26218 yarka/seeth you (singular)

          https//s26.postimg.org/89glfarop/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch24v35-42.jpg

          https//s26.postimg.org/ectklgskp/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch26v205-ch27v3.jpg

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          • N Offline
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            Noon_waalqalami
            wrote on last edited by
            #146

            peace, thank you to Mazhar for pointing out likay l OR combined likayl

            upon checking older manuscripts and usage within context...

            (written as two separate words if referring to plural) OR (written as single word if referring to singular)

            1670 needs to be consistent with 225 and likewise 3153 with 5723

            not correct http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(315314)
            not correct http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(57231)
            3153 likay l tazan (plural)
            5723 likay l tasaw (plural)

            not correct http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(167011)
            correct http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(22550)
            1670 and among you whom (singular) intends to feeble the upkeep likayl
            225 and among you whom (singular) intends to feeble the upkeep likayl
            https//s7.postimg.org/wcrewdtqz/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch22v5-11.jpg

            correct http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(333732)
            3337 likay l being upon the believers (plural) critical
            https//s7.postimg.org/4qonbw5az/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch33v33-38.jpg

            correct http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(335054)
            3350 likayl being upon you (singular) critical
            https//s7.postimg.org/k1ygca557/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch33v50-53.jpg

            correct http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(59717)
            597 kay l being circulation between the rich (plural)

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            • H Offline
              H Offline
              HP_TECH
              wrote on last edited by
              #147

              Your corpus links are not working Noon

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              • N Offline
                N Offline
                Noon_waalqalami
                wrote on last edited by
                #148

                peace, correction found 1670 verse in old manuscript (Or 2165)

                http//www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=or_2165_fs001r#

                1670 and the god creation yours furthermore taketh of you and among you whom intends to feeble the upkeep likay/surely that may l/not knoweth after knowledge thing of indeed the god knower supreme

                https//s7.postimg.org/n58ve3abf/Or_2165_Quran_manuscipt_ch16v65-75.jpg

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                • The_SardarT Offline
                  The_SardarT Offline
                  The_Sardar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #149

                  Peace, a forum user noticed Tanzil web site, 9127, the word "yarakum" is spelled with 'ya' in the Uthmanic script spelling, and with an 'alif' in the simplified Imlaei script spelling and wanted to confirm with older manuscripts.

                  There should be no alif in 9127 ىركم yarākum/seeth you (plural) same as in examples below...

                  2440 ىرها yarāhā/seeth it
                  26218 ىرك yarāka/seeth you (singular)

                  https//s26.postimg.org/89glfarop/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch24v35-42.jpg

                  https//s26.postimg.org/ectklgskp/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch26v205-ch27v3.jpg

                  The images are gone. You might wanna find it again.

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                  • N Offline
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                    Noon_waalqalami
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #150

                    peace, they're all here with other old manuscripts

                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/17/vers/36?handschrift=107

                    https//i.postimg.cc/RhBMNmQW/ch17v35-46.jpg

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                    • The_SardarT Offline
                      The_SardarT Offline
                      The_Sardar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #151

                      Thank you dear brother for the link.

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