Oldest Qur?an manuscript MA VI 165
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to make it short and simple, when God said >>>
doesn't it mean this quran is Arabic? regardless if its evolved or not evolved, do you believe Quran is Arabic like God said or not
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The text you have that is Quran is written in
Arabic. It is the only of its kind that is known to man except brief commandments and supplementary texts which were revealed to Moses. The rest are written testaments by witnesses.Salaam
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In my case, Quranic evidence comes first then historical evidence.
Peace Hizbullah -- your evidence are assumptions i.e. working it backwards.
You said Abraha and his descendants rules South Arabia until your so called coming of Islam. I am sorry to say that you are wrong. After his death, his son took over but not for long.
Abraha was not an Aksumite nor was he a Christian. In fact from the epithet of the inscription, he was a South Arabian and known as the the Most Gracious's Messiah.
Mentioned Abraha claimed to be the Messiah and pass away in 662 CE?.
No, 662 Sabian Era and have you read all the other similar inscriptions ?
Regardless he/anyone was not Islamic (no evidence) in Yemen until 7th century.
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The photo shows taking a sample and using carbon-14 dating on three samples of the manuscript parchment, the researchers concluded that it was more than 95 percent likely to have originated in the period 649-675.
PERF 558 is oldest Arabic papyrus ~643. It is a bilingual Arabic-Greek tax receipt for delivery of sheep.
shr/lunar cycle Jumada the first from sanatin/date two and twenty and written his son Hadidu
I just wanted to point out when carbon-14 dating parchment one must keep in mind this dates the age of the parchment. The text on the parchment is always less old. Sometimes old parchment was reused as shown in the Sanaa manuscript. In any case date of the text is always less old than the parchment itself. It's therefor very hard to say what the oldest Qur'an manuscript is. The ink used to write on these parchments can not be carbon dated because of how carbon dating works. One can look at the composition of the ink and style of script that was used to get some more information about fitting timeframe.
Very interesting manuscript nevertheless.
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to make it short and simple, when God said >>>
doesn't it mean this quran is Arabic?
No it does not mean the Quran is in Arabic.
AQ; 4144 - And if We had made it an OUTLANDISH RECITATION, they would have said, "Why are its verses not explained in detail? OUTLANDISH AND ELOQUENT " Say, "It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure." And those who do not believe - in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness. Those are being called from a distant place.
The verse tells us whether the Quran was made in an outlandish and eloquent language, it is from ALLAH and there is no doubt about it.
Arabi or Arabiya, does not necessarily means the PEOPLE OF ARABIA.
The Quranic rendering of the word 3rabiya (derived from i3rab), means (those who speak clearly) as contrast with a3jamiya (those who speak indistinctly - outlandish).
regardless if its evolved or not evolved, do you believe Quran is Arabic like God said or not )
The Quranic verses which i quote, 1206; 2927, explicitly says that the Last Prophet of ALLAH was a direct descendent of Prophet Ishaq and NOT Prophet Ismael as the mainstream "muslims" believe, so it means clearly he is not an ARAB as such his language is definitely not Arab. ALLAH says the Quran was sent down in the Prophet's language - 4458
So do you believe that the Original Quran is NOT in Arabic like ALLAH said or not...
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Peace Hizbullah -- your evidence are assumptions i.e. working it backwards.
No, 662 Sabian Era and have you read all the other similar inscriptions ?
Regardless he/anyone was not Islamic (no evidence) in Yemen until 7th century.
Peace Noon,
That is what you said, not the Quran. The Quran is the ONLY evidence left in this world, telling us what has been going on in the past.
It seems you DID NOT read all the Quranic evidence shown.
Again, you are wrong. There were believers, who submit to the ONE ALMIGHTY ALLAH. The Last Prophet was not sent to established a new religion. He was sent in an era where the people were in dilemma of their believes. He was sent to CONFIRMED THE PEOPLE BELIEVES IN ONE ALMIGHTY ALLAH OR WHAT EVER BEAUTIFUL NAMES THAT IS ATRRIBUTES TO THE ALMIGHTY!
There were besides others Jews, who are a monotheistic believers. The first actual use of the word Arab in history is to be found in an Assyrian inscription of 853 B.C., commemorating the defeat of a mutinous chieftain, called Gindibu the Aribi during the reign of king Shalmaneser III (858-824 B.C.). Arabs are then mentioned quite often, until the 6th century B.C. as Aribi or Arabuthat indicates vassalage to the Assyrians ? referring to the Arabs' use of the word, it occurs for the first time in the ancient epigraphical material originating in SOUTHERN ARABIA. In the north, the word is used firstly in the 4th century A.D., in one of the oldest surviving records of the language that became classical Arabic. According to Dr.Fadel al-Rubaie who, solidly concludes in his thesis that Judaism is an old Arab religion, and the Torah is a Yemeni book. He also concludes that old Jerusalem is not present-day Jerusalem. It is located in Yemen and not Asir, as the late intellectual Kamal al-Salibi concluded in his book "The Bible Came from Arabia". The Arabs are / were nothing more but the ORIGINAL JEWS OF SOUTH ARABIA.
The Nasara, who were divided into those who believes, the Monopysites and the Trinitrians. Those who called themselves Monophysite or Trinitrians are considered NON-BELIEVERS. The Monophysites and Trianitrians were in a feotuses stage in the Middle East during the 3rd Century. The Nasara mentioned were of Israelite and Arab ancestry.
There were others besides the Jews and Nasara, as the Quran says
AQ; 0262 - Indeed, those who believed, that is, those who were Jews and Christians and Sabeans - who believed in ALLAH and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
It says clearly that those who are Jews, Nasara and Sabeans and believe in ONLY ONE ALLAH AND THE LAST DAYS, there will be no fear nor grieve! These people submitt to ALLAH. They were MUSLIMS!
Peace.
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I just wanted to point out when carbon-14 dating parchment one must keep in mind this dates the age of the parchment. The text on the parchment is always less old. Sometimes old parchment was reused as shown in the Sanaa manuscript. In any case date of the text is always less old than the parchment itself. It's therefor very hard to say what the oldest Qur'an manuscript is. The ink used to write on these parchments can not be carbon dated because of how carbon dating works. One can look at the composition of the ink and style of script that was used to get some more information about fitting timeframe.
Very interesting manuscript nevertheless.
Peace Runninglikezebras and Thank you so much,
Peace Noon - This only proofs that the oldest Quran you put up are not really the oldest police
Quranic evidences and historical evidences - , are the only ones that can tell the history of the Quran!
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Peace Noon - This only proofs that the oldest Quran you put up are not really the oldest
Peace Hizbullah -- no,you have not shown us anything and the burden of proof is on you to show an older Qur'an.
comparative adjective older i.e. requires at least two to compare and hence we are waiting for you to post proof.
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Salaam hezbullah,
It is nice information that you present, even if I do not agree with everything.
Salaam
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Peace Hizbullah -- no,you have not shown us anything and the burden of proof is on you to show an older Qur'an.
comparative adjective older i.e. requires at least two to compare and hence we are waiting for you to post proof.
Peace Noon,
The Quran tells me everything, do I need further proof?
Peace
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Salaam hezbullah,
No. Nothing important. Just formalities on faith perception. We both acknowledge that there is only one Rabb.
Salaam
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Salaamun alaykum, Noon Waalqalami,
Thank you for the clarification. I was able to check today, and the ayat YaaSeen is numbered 361 in the 6 Riwaayat originating from Kufa. It is not numbered in the 8 Riwaayat originating (2 each) in Basra, Damascus, Madinah and Makkah. In these it is combined with the following ayat (in Kufa Riwaayat 362) as 361. As a result, Sura 36 in Kufa Riwaayat has 83 numbered ayats, whereas in the other 8 Riwaayat it has 82 ayats.
Salaam, Milan
Peace Milan,
Had another look which in this Qur'an verses 361 and 362 are actually combined in single verse...
361 ya seen and the Qur?an the wise
http//oi61.tinypic.com/2zrqotc.jpg
Which is similar as with...
381 saad and the Qur?an owner the reminder
501 qaf and the Qur?an the glorious
Also checked 301 alif-lam-meem that it's same as we have today i.e. single verse.
If consistent would be 6235 (#of initialed chapters 29 x 215) verses.http//oi59.tinypic.com/25a6d50.jpg
http//oi62.tinypic.com/15dbcbc.jpg
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AQ; 0262 - Indeed, those who believed, that is, those who were Jews and Christians and Sabeans - who believed in ALLAH and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
It says clearly that those who are Jews, Nasara and Sabeans and believe in ONLY ONE ALLAH AND THE LAST DAYS, there will be no fear nor grieve! These people submitt to ALLAH. They were MUSLIMS!
Know the information about the people identified-recognized-referenced in time and space as those who willingly accepted-believed;
And those who reverted to identity of Jews, and those who identified themselves as the Nisaa'ra; and those the Sa'bi'een;
Subject to condition that one had willingly accepted belief in Allah the Exalted and the Last Day and had performed-acted as a righteous person;
Thereby, the reward of such people is in wait-prepared for them by Grace of their Sustainer Lord.
Moreover, not at all fear will overshadow-haunt upon them. And they will neither have a cause for grieve.Waw and Relative pronoun does not mean "that is".
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Peace Noon,
That is what you said, not the Quran. The Quran is the ONLY evidence left in this world, telling us what has been going on in the past.
It seems you DID NOT read all the Quranic evidence shown.
Again, you are wrong. There were believers, who submit to the ONE ALMIGHTY ALLAH. The Last Prophet was not sent to established a new religion. He was sent in an era where the people were in dilemma of their believes. He was sent to CONFIRMED THE PEOPLE BELIEVES IN ONE ALMIGHTY ALLAH OR WHAT EVER BEAUTIFUL NAMES THAT IS ATRRIBUTES TO THE ALMIGHTY!
There were besides others Jews, who are a monotheistic believers. The first actual use of the word Arab in history is to be found in an Assyrian inscription of 853 B.C., commemorating the defeat of a mutinous chieftain, called Gindibu the Aribi during the reign of king Shalmaneser III (858-824 B.C.). Arabs are then mentioned quite often, until the 6th century B.C. as Aribi or Arabuthat indicates vassalage to the Assyrians ? referring to the Arabs' use of the word, it occurs for the first time in the ancient epigraphical material originating in SOUTHERN ARABIA. In the north, the word is used firstly in the 4th century A.D., in one of the oldest surviving records of the language that became classical Arabic. According to Dr.Fadel al-Rubaie who, solidly concludes in his thesis that Judaism is an old Arab religion, and the Torah is a Yemeni book. He also concludes that old Jerusalem is not present-day Jerusalem. It is located in Yemen and not Asir, as the late intellectual Kamal al-Salibi concluded in his book "The Bible Came from Arabia". The Arabs are / were nothing more but the ORIGINAL JEWS OF SOUTH ARABIA.
The Nasara, who were divided into those who believes, the Monopysites and the Trinitrians. Those who called themselves Monophysite or Trinitrians are considered NON-BELIEVERS. The Monophysites and Trianitrians were in a feotuses stage in the Middle East during the 3rd Century. The Nasara mentioned were of Israelite and Arab ancestry.
There were others besides the Jews and Nasara, as the Quran says
AQ; 0262 - Indeed, those who believed, that is, those who were Jews and Christians and Sabeans - who believed in ALLAH and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
It says clearly that those who are Jews, Nasara and Sabeans and believe in ONLY ONE ALLAH AND THE LAST DAYS, there will be no fear nor grieve! These people submitt to ALLAH. They were MUSLIMS!
Peace.
Is it based on
http//ismaili.net/heritage/node/10208http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif
Have you given a thought as to what type of a noun is this?
It is a noun termed as Relative Adjective . It is a noun having a consonant "Yaa- " suffixed to its ending which indicates its relation to the noun from which it is derived. Thus, a unique feature of this language is that it defines the identity of its own people the language of the sons of soil of Arabian peninsula; the language of the land that hosts the "House of Allah" on the Earth; and the universal leader of humanity, the Last Messenger of Allah the Exalted, Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam.
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Is it based on
http//ismaili.net/heritage/node/10208http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif
Have you given a thought as to what type of a noun is this?
It is a noun termed as Relative Adjective . It is a noun having a consonant "Yaa- " suffixed to its ending which indicates its relation to the noun from which it is derived. Thus, a unique feature of this language is that it defines the identity of its own people the language of the sons of soil of Arabian peninsula; the language of the land that hosts the "House of Allah" on the Earth; and the universal leader of humanity, the Last Messenger of Allah the Exalted, Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam.
Peace Mazhar;
Even so, if it is, the Quran is very explicit to say
And We did not send message of a messenger except in the language of his people to state clearly for them,
As such, it is safe to say that Muhammad is / was not the Last Prophet of ALLAH but ONLY a messenger of ALLAH to the language of the sons of soil of Arabian peninsula or to be explicit, South Arabia.
How can a messenger state clearly to his people, say Chinese people, in the Arabic language? Only a Quran in a Chinese language, given to a Chinese Messenger, so that he can state clearly to his people base from Quran ORIGINALLY written in Chinese language!
Peace
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Know the history, Our Majesty did not send a Messenger with the Message-Book except in the language of his nation to whom he was sent. The objective was that he might explicitly express for them that which they must avoid.
Thereby, having made fact evidently explicit, Allah the Exalted lets remain neglectfully straying the one about whom He so decides. And He the Exalted guides the one about whom He so decides .
Be aware, He the Exalted is Pervasively dominant and the Infinitely Just Supreme Administrator of the created realm, visible and invisible.The inference is drawn and a statement is made on the strength of a statement of Grand Qur'aan. Its evaluation should also be made from the same source.
Grand Qur'aan Universal information-code in Arabic needs to be translated for dissemination across the linguistic boundaries
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Know the history, Our Majesty did not send a Messenger with the Message-Book except in the language of his nation to whom he was sent. The objective was that he might explicitly express for them that which they must avoid.
Thereby, having made fact evidently explicit, Allah the Exalted lets remain neglectfully straying the one about whom He so decides. And He the Exalted guides the one about whom He so decides .
Be aware, He the Exalted is Pervasively dominant and the Infinitely Just Supreme Administrator of the created realm, visible and invisible.The inference is drawn and a statement is made on the strength of a statement of Grand Qur'aan. Its evaluation should also be made from the same source.
Grand Qur'aan Universal information-code in Arabic needs to be translated for dissemination across the linguistic boundaries
Off course I know the history, do you? The Arabic of verse 1404 is so clear!
How can it be explicit to a Chinese? SO ALL CHINESE ARE LOST AND THE WRATH OF ALLAH WILL BE ON THEM?
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If the god only sent messengers to its own community it means it is very unevenly balanced, since people who came with comprehensive messages went to Middle-East but left the rest of the world to its own destiny.
Actually the message of the Messiah spread all over Europe and into the Hellenistic Roman Empire and caused change usually for the better in the long run. Christian values are well known still as of today and is probably an influence on Socialism.
Yet some people deny that there was no Messianic figure who caused a lasting effect on the European community, while the catastrophic Middle-East generally contended those values and are still 2000 years later backwards on things such as human rights, peace, stability and the technology is usually borrowed, and propagating Dark Age philosophy which not even Jesus who were before Quran would stand behind. It is one thing with the (political) "Son of God" blabber, but the broken church also brought so-called Christian values and a kind of renewal a millennium later with Martin Luther and the German Protestant movement. Read up on history. It is arguable whether Martin Luther could not be considered a little messenger of his own.
Much of the early development of the Arabian culture is thanks to Roman and Greek conquest and cooperation with Arab communities such as the Nabetaens. The Arab 'Golden Age' is thanks to Persian clerics and Romans who brought fairly civilized communities around them compared to contesting barbarians.
It easy to become opinionated and claim every ancient community as evil and good-for-nothing because they were active in war and conquest and often with lacking human rights and slavery to various degree, but both the Persian Achemenid (and to some extent the successors) and Roman (Greco-Roman) empires were successful because they because they civilized their surroundings in bringing technological advancement but also well working governmental systems and spoke of real justice. Yes, there existed a justice system in the Roman Empire. The Achemedian system was innovative and effective for its time. The Greco-Romans are likely inspired by what the ancient Persians brought forth. During their time they were quite renowned even if not loved due to politics. Morals and order is also what brings forth a good civilization instead of brutes.
It is ignorance which causes people to look down on the Messianic influence Jesus had on the European society. It is the politicized Christianity which has been bad for Europe while the message of value was beneficial. Christian values can be said to be the influence on Socialism and also Communism (which unfortunately has an undeserved bad reputation).
Quran textually attacks "Bani Israel" and focuses on Arabs. Should the rest of the world ignore it too and not only Jesus for Christians?
And sorry for being off-topic which we all are here who posted recently.
Salaam