Bakka/Mecca
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Salam/Peace,
Just to share my understanding for the benefit of others.
I used to believe that Bakka and the Restricted Sanctuary were one in the same.
My understanding after much study is that they are two distinct locations.
Bakkah = Jerusalem (the site of the first sanctuary established for the people and the location of Abraham's test)
Restricted Temple/Restricted Sanctuary = Mecca (the site of the second temple and the location of Lot as well as many events mentioned in the Quran)
Mecca was destroyed by a meteor shower, from which the black stone of the Kaaba is taken.
The sanctuary/temple of Mecca was a stopping point for Pilgrims and is an acceptable site for making the animal sacrifice for those who cannot continue the journey.
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Salam Layth.
I agree with your assertion that Bakkah and Mekkah are not same. However, Bakkah = Jerusalem also seems equally far- fetched.
I believe "Bakkah" in Qur'an is the same as or rather a direct reference of Valley of Baka in Psalm 846. It is a metaphorical location on the way towards one's journey to his desired destination. The explanations in the below site seem quite appropriate
http//biblehub.com/psalms/84-6.htm
The "house" at "Bakkah" refers to the safe-house created by Abraham and his descendents to take shelter under worship of one true Master of the universe. This is the safehouse for the faithful in their journey towards their ultimate destination - their Master.
Per my humble understanding the original physical location of bakkah can never be ascertained with certainty, and it does not matter.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
peace all,
From http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html
Where this specific area is may or may not be important for us now. For example, 2791 and 597 say God made such an area inviolable thus one could argue who are we to change it, thus its location should be kept as is (this assumes this location is known and correct, e.g. current city of Makkah). However one could argue that the position of the shelter in 2226 is one wherein no partner is associated with God, and since the messenger of Quran followed the example of the first shelter setup by Abraham (who is unlikely to have been in the region of Makkah) one could re-institute this model at one's locality, wherever that may be.
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In my humble understanding, mkh (/) is a U-shaped valley where the disbelievers obstructed the Prophet and his followers from reaching their destination (ie. م 'nuff said (see 4824-27).
SLM
I checked the verse and yes, I see makkata in it. Also found Kabah mentioned in other verses.
595
O you who have believed, do not kill game while you are in the state of ihram. And whoever of you kills it intentionally - the penalty is an equivalent from sacrificial animals to what he killed, as judged by two just men among you as an offering delivered to the Ka'bah, or an expiation the feeding of needy people or the equivalent of that in fasting, that he may taste the consequence of his deed. Allah has pardoned what is past; but whoever returns , then Allah will take retribution from him. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Owner of Retribution.597
Allah has made the Ka'bah, the Sacred House, standing for the people and the sacred months and the sacrificial animals and the garlands . That is so you may know that Allah knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is Knowing of all things.
But it is easy to be confused about Bekka and Makka. Here is the problem
Indeed, the first House established for mankind was that at Bakkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.In it are clear signs the standing place of Abraham. And whoever enters it shall be safe. And to Allah from the people is a pilgrimage to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.396-97
And when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and Ishmael, , "Our Lord, accept from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.2127
And , when We designated for Abraham the site of the House, , "Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand and those who bow and prostrate. And proclaim to the people the Hajj ; they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every distant pass -That they may witness benefits for themselves and mention the name of Allah on known days over what He has provided for them of animals.
2226-28What I understand now is that during Prophet Ibrahim's time, the place was called Bakka. But during Prophet Muhammad's time, the name was changed to Makka. It is the title change similar to New Netherlands becoming New York, Decca becoming Dhaka, Armenia turning into Turkey, etc.
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Well, reel,
what kind of transportation can be used at that age to travel from Iraq to mekkah in a short time only to establishing a house as a vacation? At least it need about 4 months on foot to come there on a single trip.Do you mean to say people never travelled back in the days? How did the Arab merchants travel to India without planes, cars and trains? They sure had the ships, but what about those that didn't have ocean/sea?
It doesnt take 4 months. If someone wishes to rest and then continue, it should take him a month to go to Mecca from Iraq,
Here is the direction on foot if the person doesnt take rest. It is based on today's roads.Iraq
Head northwest
4.0 km
Sharp left
5.9 km
Turn left
19.6 km
Turn left
49.3 km
Turn right at
15.8 km
Continue onto Route 22
32.0 km
Turn right
2.6 km
Turn right onto Route 22
68.6 km
Slight right
18.9 km
Slight right onto Route 22
4.5 km
Slight right
10.8 km
Slight right onto Route 22
37.2 km
Continue onto Route 21
4.3 km
Turn right
Entering Saudi Arabia
117 km
Slight left
1.3 km
Continue onto Route 80
28.6 km
Slight left to stay on Route 80
33.0 km
Continue straight onto Al Quds St
120 m
Continue onto Route 80
800 m
Turn left onto Makkah St
120 m
Turn right
68 m
Turn left
350 m
Turn right
130 m
Turn left
300 m
Turn right toward King Abdullah Road
150 m
Turn left toward King Abdullah Road
14 m
Turn right toward King Abdullah Road
260 m
Turn left onto King Abdullah Road
300 m
Turn right
300 m
Turn right
3.4 km
Turn left toward Route 85
13 m
Turn right toward Route 85
450 m
Turn left onto Route 85
1.6 km
Slight left
1.2 km
Continue onto Route 85
120 km
Slight right to stay on Route 85
21.9 km
Turn right onto Route 9519
284 km
Turn right onto Route 70
77.1 km
Turn left
16.1 km
Turn left
20.3 km
Turn left
1.9 km
Turn right
5.2 km
Turn right
400 m
Turn left
35.1 km
Turn left onto Route 400
900 m
Turn right onto Route 427
112 km
At the roundabout, take the 1st exit
1.2 km
Turn right
1.1 km
Turn right
32.0 km
Turn left
32.7 km
Slight right
37.0 km
Turn right onto Route 340
1.8 km
Turn left onto Route 7077
35.8 km
Turn right onto Route 7300
67.8 km
Turn left
44.0 km
Turn right
2.0 km
Turn left onto Route 8432
1.2 km
Turn right
78.3 km
Turn left onto Route 8258
96.1 km
Turn right onto Route 8010
48.2 km
Turn left onto Route 8458
48.7 km
Turn left
750 m
Slight left
58.3 km
Turn right onto Route 4711
44.7 km
Continue onto Route 4710
63.3 km
Turn left to stay on Route 4710
30.2 km
Turn left onto Route 4700
15.6 km
Slight left
4.5 km
Slight left
1.8 km
Turn right
600 m
Continue onto Route 15
2.8 km
Slight right
900 m
Continue onto Al Hijrah Hwy
300 m
Turn left toward Al Madinah Al Munawarah Rd
28 m
Turn right onto Al Madinah Al Munawarah Rd
3.5 km
Turn left
5 m
Turn right
7.3 km
Slight left
1.5 km
Slight right
56 m
Turn left
1.6 km
Slight right
900 m
Continue onto Al Madinah Al Munawarah Rd/Route 15
Continue to follow Al Madinah Al Munawarah Rd
3.6 km
At the roundabout, take the 3rd exit
100 m
Turn right toward At Taysir
280 m
Slight left onto At Taysir
19 m
Turn left onto Bir Tuwa
150 m
Turn right toward Umm Al Qura
350 m
Turn left onto Umm Al Qura
57 m
Turn right toward Jurhum
75 m
Turn right toward Jurhum
79 m
Turn left onto Jurhum
900 m
Turn left
400 m
Turn left
400 m
Turn left
86 m
Mecca Saudi Arabia388 hours=16.2 days
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Salamun alaikum.
396 Indeed, the first house laid down for mankind is surely the one at Becca ? blessed and guidance for the universe.
397 There are clear signs in it ? Abraham?s standpoint ? and whoever enters it happens to be secured. And to Allah upon mankind is the hajj* (literally debate / deep consideration) of the house - whoever is able - a path to it; and whoever represses (faith) ? then Allah is affluent of the universe.
(My personal translation; cross checking recommended.)
There are obvious signs in these verses that the "house" at becca is not a physical house - rather a "spiritual safehouse"
- A physical house has limited scope in time and space - it cannot be guidance for the universe.
- No physical house can guarantee safety for anyone who enters it. Note verse 478.
- Note in verse 397 that two groups of people have been put in contrast - a) People who perform the hajj (which literally means debate or thorough consideration of a topic) of the house verses those who repress (faith).
I am personally not against the "hajj" ritual. And I do support that those who have faith in Qur'an should endeavor to perform hajj and umrah of Masjid al Haram at Mekkah. However, I am convinced that verses 396-97 are neither talking about Mekkah, nor the "Hajj" as a ritual.
And I seriously doubt Abraham had ever physically been to the place we know as Mekkah.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
In my humble understanding, mkh (/ه is a U-shaped valley ...
Another viable theory would be that mkh refers to (mkh), a small Aramean kingdom east of the Sea of Galilee.
Abel Beth MAACAH seems to have derived its name from its relation to this kingdomSLM
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I would say it does not refer to any location at all. Quran refrains from giving location names, probably for solid reasons.
If mentioned Bakka in Bible it is probably a mistake in interpretation and a coincidence that it occurs.
Have faith
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The sanctuary/temple of Mecca was a stopping point for Pilgrims and is an acceptable site for making the animal sacrifice for those who cannot continue the journey.
I visited Mecca myself for Umrah when I was a child (I remember it quite vividly though). It was a nice experience that time.
Although now when I think of it, I used to wonder regarding a number of ritual performing being done by the pilgrims, and why would God need us to do them, particularly us Muslims, who try to refrain from superstitious behavior. The tawaf, running between the two hills, etc. I never actually questioned though. For now I wonder on particularly the animal sacrifice part, which looks like an ancient Pagan sacrifice ritual, i.e. life for a life. I guess I am not that knowledgeable at this time being. If anyone has any comments it would be welcome for me.
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peace all,
Arman,
Re 1) Aalameena (plural) = beings/creations. Unlikely to mean "universes".
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596520.msg51053#msg51053
Re 2) Whilst I understand the point you are making, it may not be as solid as you think. There are verses which discuss balad/haram being secure. This is discussed in the article I linked to.hicham9,
In my view "makkah" means "crowding" (a classical Arabic meaning) which fits perfectly in Quran context, and also happens to be a shared meaning with "bakkah".samira1234.
For now I wonder on particularly the animal sacrifice part, which looks like an ancient Pagan sacrifice ritual, i.e. life for a life.
Slaughtering an animal and feeding the poor with such does not resemble paganism to me. I discuss this in the link I gave, e.g.
2234 suggests that this is an important practice all communities/nations had in common, and thus perhaps is the only obligatory one. 2267 suggests similar. It may be helpful to reflect upon the act being asked of us and why utilising the tokens/sha3air of God in this way, i.e. for providing sustenance to those in need, is an act that reiterates/mirrors what God has done for us. Thus, what better way to show one's humility/thanks/rememberance/praise/recognition before God than to provide for others just as God has provided for you (e.g. see 2877 "...do good as God has done good to you...".
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hicham9,
In my view "makkah" means "crowding" (a classical Arabic meaning) which fits perfectly in Quran context, and also happens to be a shared meaning with "bakkah".Peace Wakas,
Thank you for sharing your interesting view with us, but I'm still of the opinion that mkh is a topographic point located somewhere on the road leading to al-masjid al-haram Further, according to my research/study, 'mkh' (ه n.f. is derived from the (semitic) consonantal root 'mkk' ( ك which denotes lowness; or lowliness !
SLM
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This is not the first time that I have seen you make this claim!
How did you arrive at such conclusion?
Because Qur'an simply does overall not make any mention of any physical place by name. Why would it make mention of a so-called holy place that people may go there and perform idolatry anyway through paganistic rituals?
Keeping places holy seems almost like an obsession for humans, so Allah simply did not refer to any specific locations by name at all, and not even focus on the anonymous ones but rather on the moral lesson of the stories/allegories. And a location is only as holy as its inhabitants.
Have faith
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Peace MOF,
Because Qur'an simply does overall not make any mention of any physical place by name.
Actually, the Qurn does mention several geographical locations by name. To name a few Mount Sinai ( Babylon ( Karyatayn ( Iram ( Madyan ( Badr ( Hunayn ( Yathrib ( Makkah ( Bakkah ( Misr ( ... Etc!
Why would it make mention of a so-called holy place that people may go there and perform idolatry anyway through paganistic rituals?
Keeping places holy seems almost like an obsession for humans, so Allah simply did not refer to any specific locations by name at all, and not even focus on the anonymous ones but rather on the moral lesson of the stories/allegories. And a location is only as holy as its inhabitants.hokum!
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Ok. Thanks for enlightenment. I have to correct that it seldom mentions locations instead of never. It still prefer to be as scarce as possible. Although I would still argue that Bakkateh and Mekkateh are not locations.
Mount Sinai has importance for the Children of Israel who got the worst boot.
Is it still not strange however that Jerusalem is not mentioned by name?
Quran is scarce with giving geographical information and many times it is not a name but which refers to some shape or landmark feature in nature.
Have faith
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- 96
In ?Bacca? is the prime most living place for mankind; it is a noble and a guiding force for the people of all worlds.
If any one is free from idol / location / construction worshiping, then one shall appreciate his own soul or the Ruh in each one's heart is Bacca / the prime most living place for every man. The Ruh is certainly the most noble and a true guiding force for each one of the worlds.
- 96
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Even if Bakkateh theoretically would be a location bayat does still not refer to a physical building.
Allah does not encourage idolatry by keeping that kind of focus on a place.
And the practices at today's Mecca are nothing but Pagan rituals, keeping a building worshiped against commandment number two concerning no image of anything in Heaven nor Earth for Allah. Allah hardly speaks in a direct narrative about such a ritual with that dimension. In that case we read a Pagan book and not a revelation by the Sustainer.
Have faith
