Christians will be punished and are wicked???...

Man_of_Faith

I am not going to reply to that pile of disguised sarcasm and rhetorical writing to gain favor.

You call yourself jinn and not me. I cannot judge whether you are a jinn or not based upon as little I know about you and what efforts you have put forth to prove your points.

Faith is just what it is, faith helps a man a long way. But faith is not accepting things from right to left without verifying arguments carefully and have the generally called "critical approach" and faith is also to be able to accept the nothing that anything can be wrong. The motto could as well be "everything is possible, nothing is impossible". That has at least been my motto for the past ten years and it is healthy because it both helps one's thinking to wander outside of the box and also be critical that something can be wrong even if so every single person on Earth except yourself speak against you in their delusion that something is right.

Faith will be to no avail unless one uses knowledge and wisdom however. Wisdom is crucial and the only way to get there is to struggle hard to be unbiased. One example of a fallacy is when you take Quran and you wholeheartedly accept it as the word of God, but you blindly accept whatever interpretation people come up with or what dictionary source you can get your hands on. This is not the right approach. And I see you fell into this trap and you are being sarcastic to me.

Salaam

sushi1992

I am not going to reply to that pile of disguised sarcasm and rhetorical writing to gain favor.

You call yourself jinn and not me. I cannot judge whether you are a jinn or not based upon as little I know about you and what efforts you have put forth to prove your points.

Faith is just what it is, faith helps a man a long way. But faith is not accepting things from right to left without verifying arguments carefully and have the generally called "critical approach" and faith is also to be able to accept the nothing that anything can be wrong. The motto could as well be "everything is possible, nothing is impossible". That has at least been my motto for the past ten years and it is healthy because it both helps one's thinking to wander outside of the box and also be critical that something can be wrong even if so every single person on Earth except yourself speak against you in their delusion that something is right.

Faith will be to no avail unless one uses knowledge and wisdom however. Wisdom is crucial and the only way to get there is to struggle hard to be unbiased. One example of a fallacy is when you take Quran and you wholeheartedly accept it as the word of God, but you blindly accept whatever interpretation people come up with or what dictionary source you can get your hands on. This is not the right approach. And I see you fell into this trap and you are being sarcastic to me.

Salaam

MoF don't get dragged into things like this, it will only annoy or put you in a mood that you don't want to be in. What I would appreciate is if you cared to comment on my previous response ). But don't get dragged into conversation that's gonna annoy you. I wouldn't participate in it...

peace

huruf

Peace reel (huruf, mof),

Huruf, you speak of guaranteed falseness. What do you mean by this?

Also, you compare this where someone is taking arsenic and slowly killing themselves. Does this person know arsenic is wrong for them and continues taking it. That is the question because if the person knows it's wrong and intakes it, that's transgressing. But most people with specific relations to God and other gods is not going to take that illusion away from you, so it hinders your learning and mind expansion.... But huruf let me know what guaranteed false means.

peace

Well, in this example of the arsenic, we do know that eating arsenic is guaranteed harmful, if you, against better aadvice eat it, don't expect to get healthy by doing it. (unless of course it was a proper treatment for something and in the proper dosage). Any hint that taking arsenic otherwise as something that could do you good, would be guranteed false.

Salaam

sushi1992

Well, in this example of the arsenic, we do know that eating arsenic is guaranteed harmful, if you, against better aadvice eat it, don't expect to get healthy by doing it. (unless of course it was a proper treatment for something and in the proper dosage). Any hint that taking arsenic otherwise as something that could do you good, would be guranteed false.

Salaam

Understood huruf. It makes sense that if people KNOW saying God is a third of 3 is not good for you and people don't desist then fair enough. But how can we determine the people described in 573 actually KNOW/BELIEVE that what they are saying is wrong rather than just saying it for the sake of it. What I'm saying is how can you determine that is the case from he Qur'an?

peace

huruf

Well we cannot determine that of people we do not know and hardly of people we do know. God knows. God knows that and God knows all shades and particularities of all that people think, say and believe.

It suffices, I think, that we are ratified in the unity of divinity and not dividing it in three (or any other number for that matter). -we are warned no to fall for it. As to those who say that one way or another, God knows and they will met the consequences of their beliefs if the have them and they are wrong. If you start a journey of 3.000 km. on foot on a ertain track, you take care to get approprit shoes and clothing, you foresee how long it may take depending on whether events, etc. etc. If you have got your data wrong, you endanger yourself in the journey. Same here. If your date is wrong, you cannot act correctly.

Salaam

sushi1992

Well we cannot determine that of people we do not know and hardly of people we do know. God knows. God knows that and God knows all shades and particularities of all that people think, say and believe.

It suffices, I think, that we are ratified in the unity of divinity and not dividing it in three (or any other number for that matter). -we are warned no to fall for it. As to those who say that one way or another, God knows and they will met the consequences of their beliefs if the have them and they are wrong. If you start a journey of 3.000 km. on foot on a ertain track, you take care to get approprit shoes and clothing, you foresee how long it may take depending on whether events, etc. etc. If you have got your data wrong, you endanger yourself in the journey. Same here. If your date is wrong, you cannot act correctly.

Salaam

Hmm.. fair enough. But I think you made a point that this verse doesn't refer to Christians as I don't hear them say God is the Messiah and neither do I hear them say God is a third of 3... It would be more that God is a manifestation in 3 forms as you said, the father the son and the spirit. In fact, I think 99% of religions that have multiple "Gods" don't see them as separate deities as such. It's like they might say the God of love and God of hate.. really, they most likely acknowledge that they all form one supreme God. I don't think that believing in such a way is "bad" as long as there is an acknowledgement of that following a system of justice, kindness and universal human rights is the ultimate system they should be following. People say believe in the one God... But what is God? That you cannot answer... Though you can describe its attributes. If God encapsules the sun, moon, sea, land etc, then what are we told to believe in? When God speaks of shirk, is it really about multiple Gods? Yes, serving something that doesn't harm nor benefit you is pointless, and I dislike pagans for this, but there is something deeper as to why shirk is condemned... As armaniz pointed out, shirk is described as unforgivable. People who say God is a third of 3 can be forgiven, so is this shirk? I think not...

But is shirk something that "diverts" you from the straight path to "God"? I.e. following your own desires and ego and arrogance, strutting the earth like the unbeatable, like you have power to deceive and make people follow your own ideas, your own religion, brainwash people to satisfy your insecure needs of power. To me that is shirk, people who are simply ignorant to the truth have an obligation to not be ignorant and seek truth as well as possible, but those who cover the truth, who know the truth but speak lies and falsities to gain power and brainwash and cause corruption and oppression, these are the rejectors, the kafara...

If I am wrong, May I stand corrected.

Peace

FreedomStands

I call this "comforting yourself" because Allah repeatedly says those who are ignorant, who do not know, etc, will be brought to the hell fire. The ones who are deceived, led astray, etc.

You might think, "how can this be" because you might imagine it to be unjust. It is only as "unjust" as a fish being created for the sea, or a lion that eats a gazelle, it is as Allah wills it to be, just a creation of Allah, Allah is not bound to justice or what you might perceive to be justice or injustice, Allah is the decider.

So it is not known to me if they will be thrown in hell or not, but the Qur'an never says "because the evildoers are ignorant of what they say they will be spared, because ignorant people are forgiven for their ignorance in what they say" that is totally just comforting yourself, no, it is that Allah has created some for the fire and some for the paradise, just like Allah creates fish for the water and can make it different and create fish for the sky, and everyone would say "of course fish are made for the sky, everyone knows that" because Allah makes the reality, Allah makes the information, the power being all information is Allah, the direct creator of it all.

sushi1992

I call this "comforting yourself" because Allah repeatedly says those who are ignorant, who do not know, etc, will be brought to the hell fire. The ones who are deceived, led astray, etc.

You might think, "how can this be" because you might imagine it to be unjust. It is only as "unjust" as a fish being created for the sea, or a lion that eats a gazelle, it is as Allah wills it to be, just a creation of Allah, Allah is not bound to justice or what you might perceive to be justice or injustice, Allah is the decider.

So it is not known to me if they will be thrown in hell or not, but the Qur'an never says "because the evildoers are ignorant of what they say they will be spared, because ignorant people are forgiven for their ignorance in what they say" that is totally just comforting yourself, no, it is that Allah has created some for the fire and some for the paradise, just like Allah creates fish for the water and can make it different and create fish for the sky, and everyone would say "of course fish are made for the sky, everyone knows that" because Allah makes the reality, Allah makes the information, the power being all information is Allah, the direct creator of it all.

Show me verses where ignorant people (and only ignorant people) are directly said to be thrown in hell as you out it...

sushi1992

Anyway freedom, if you think I'm comforting myself then good for you. I believe in one universal system so I not concerned about others too much. May I point out to you that there are NO verses in the Qur'an that say ignorant people "will be thrown into hell". Your assumptions are painful. It is the people who are wicked who are condemned, the fabricators, the hypocritics and the deniers of truth lest they already know the truth but deny what is in their chest and hearts hidden... They say we believe in God, yet they plan and premeditate evil thoughts to misguided the ignorant.. these people are committing shirk and I believe they will get a painful retribution.

496 O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.

Don't throw everyone into one basket "jinn dude", as I'm sure others will not be agreeing with you. You can say things like, if someone helps 1000 people then God can send them to hell, but who are you to say God would or would not do that? The logical scenario is that God would not send them to hell but they will be in eternal bliss for such actions.

Do you have it in for anyone who hasn't "read" the Qur'an?? Do you see anyone who isn't a 'Muslim" a bad person? God is capable of all things and it can throw me you and anyone else into a life of eternal anguish, but we strive not to be ignorant. Close ourself off from the world and harden our hearts with faulty beliefs, that's what's going to get us nowhere. Seek to learn and we shall be stepping closer to knowledge and the straight path. Sure, perhaps ignorant people will be punished in one way or another, but they are not of the wicked people. Wicked people is NOT equal to ignorant people.

sushi1992

Also, your accusations of me comforting myself are tiresome and if anything enraging. Quite frankly if it boils down to it, if someone wants to worship 40,000,000 gods then knock yourself out. I know what I am and I have no fear when it comes to my current understanding of the reading. It is but a guide, nothing more. My views are quite closely related to how jafar puts quite a few things, I saw his views were very similar to mine a few years ago. He wrote something about shirk which I 100% agree with. But if you are blind, you will condemn to hell even the most innocent of people who are ignorant. An ignorant person by your understanding is thrown into hell by the creator (correct me if I'm wrong) as God can do whatever it wants to do. So say someone who has been suppressed in a country (I dunno... Let's say north Korea) who has been taught a strict set of rules and is forced to worship multiple deities but tries to remain humble, compassionate and humane to the people around them will also be thrown into anguish by your comments - I could be wrong and do not wish to put words in people's mouths as you seem to be doing for me.

A leaf out of jafars book...

"Shirk got nothing to do with "worshiping > 1 gods".... and/or monotheism...
Shirk is a bad traits which is a combination of lies, deceit, injustice, oppressive, hatred and greed..
Even the Devil is a monotheist...

The whole objective of the Quran is NOT to do "Gods consolidation".. from N into 1...

Many people here has also said the same thing.. the true God... is not a narcissistic 'being' who wanted to be worshiped. The true God loves justice, compassion, mercy, honesty more than He loves to be worshiped.

The whole objective of the Quran is to shed light / revelation to the society deeply embedded in darkness, myths, religion and mysticism...
The whole objective of the Quran is to expose the frauds, the corrupts, the priests, the scam artists and their fake dogma who has taken away so many of hard earned money from regular peasantry.
The whole objective of the Quran is to transform the society from the darkness of ignorance into the light of knowledge.

The kufr are not the 'disbeliever' and/or polytheists.. the kufr are those frauds, scam artists, mafias who tried everything in their power to stop the truth being spread out, as they've gained $$$, power and influence over the lies being spread out in the society.. The Kufr has forgotten about their commandment with their own creator thus they have 'shirk-ing' from it..

The Kufr (Kaffirin) and those whose Shirk (Mushrikin) CAN be a monotheist too..!

Salam / Peace"

If you are going to criticize me continuously and mock mine and other people's understanding purely because of their curiosity of the Qur'an, then don't even comment on my thread. If you're not prepared to be open minded as I am trying to be by actually asking for evidences that you provide then don't bother. From what I've seen from your other posts, your quotes from the Qur'an itself has been using poor translations at best. I think you need to research on certain understandings before criticizing others... But then you found the Qur'an 100% easy to understand of course....

FreedomStands

Show me verses where ignorant people (and only ignorant people) are directly said to be thrown in hell as you out it...

213
And when it is said unto them believe as the people believe, they say shall we believe as the foolish believe? are not they indeed the foolish? But they know not.
But God mocks them (makes a joke out of them) and allows them to sink deeper into evil and wander perplexed in their wickedness.
They are the ones who purchase error for the price of (in exchange for) guidance, so their trade did not profit them, nor were they guided.
Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see,
Deaf, dumb, blind - and they cannot turn back.
Or like a rainstorm from the sky, wherein is darkness, thunder and the flash of lightning. They thrust their fingers in their ears by reason of the thunder-claps, for fear of death, Allah encompasseth the disbelievers
The lightning almost snatcheth away their sight from them. As often as it flasheth forth for them they walk therein, and when it darkeneth against them they stand still. If Allah willed, He could destroy their hearing and their sight. Lo! Allah has power over all things.

2755
Must you really approach men with lust instead of women? Nay, but you are people without any awareness

6111
And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead had spoken to them and We had brought together all things before them, they would not believe unless Allah pleases, but most of them are ignorant (unaware).
In like manner We have sent for every prophet an opponent, Satans from among men and jinn, who make evil suggestions to each other by means of specious words in order to deceive had it been your Lords will, they would not have done so; so leave them alone to their fabrication,
That the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter may incline thereto, and that they may take pleasure therein, and that they may earn what they are earning.
Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.

6116
Now if thou pay heed unto the majority of those on earth, they will but lead thee astray from the path of God they follow but conjectures, and they themselves do nothing but guess.

635
And if their aversion is grievous unto thee, then, if thou canst, seek a way down into the earth or a ladder unto the sky that thou mayst bring unto them a portent (to convince them all)! - If Allah willed, He could have brought them all together to the guidance - So be not thou among the foolish ones.

6100
Yet they make the Jinns equals with God, though God did create the Jinns; and they falsely, in ignorance (having no knowledge), attribute to Him sons and daughters. Praise and glory be to Him! (for He is) above what they attribute to Him!

6102
That is Allah, your Lord, there is no god but He; the Creator of (absolutely) everything, therefore serve Him, and He has charge of all things.
No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.
Proofs have come unto you from your Lord, so whoso seeth, it is for his own good, and whoso is blind is blind to his own hurt. And I am not a keeper over you.
Thus do We display Our revelations that they may say (unto thee, Muhammad) "Thou hast studied," and that We may make (it) clear for people who have knowledge.
Follow that which is inspired in thee from thy Lord; there is no Allah save Him; and turn away from the idolaters.
Had Allah willed, they had not been idolatrous. We have not set thee as a keeper over them, nor art thou responsible for them.
Revile not those unto whom they pray beside Allah lest they wrongfully revile Allah in ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do.
And they swear a solemn oath by Allah that if there come unto them a portent they will believe therein. Say; Portents are with Allah and (so is) that which telleth you that if such came unto them they would not believe.
We would make their hearts and their eyes turn away, just as the first time they disbelieved, and leave them to flounder in their obstinacy.
And though We should send down the angels unto them, and the dead should speak unto them, and We should gather against them all things in array, they would not believe unless Allah so willed. Most of them are ignorant.

5211
Then woe that day unto the deniers
That play (and paddle) in shallow trifles. (19 19! God sits back and lets a Simulation run on its own power! Justice controls God! etc)
The day on which they shall be driven away to the fire of hell with violence.
"This is the Fire which you have been denying.
Was it, then, a delusion or is it that you fail to see?
Roast you in it! Then, have patience, or you endure patiently not, it is all the same to you. You will be only given recompense for what you had been doing (for what they "are", were "made" as)

6128
In the day when He will gather them together (He will say) O ye assembly of the jinn! Many of humankind did ye seduce. And their adherents among humankind will say Our Lord! We enjoyed one another, but now we have arrived at the appointed term which Thou appointedst for us. He will say Fire is your home. Abide therein for ever, save him whom Allah willeth. Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware.
And in this manner do We cause evildoers to seduce one another by means of their (evil] doings.
O ye assembly of the jinn and humankind! Came there not unto you messengers of your own who recounted unto you My tokens and warned you of the meeting of this your Day? They will say We testify against ourselves. And the life of the world beguiled them. And they testify against themselves that they were disbelievers.
your Lord would not destroy towns for their wrongdoing if they had not been warned.
For all there will be ranks from what they did. Thy Lord is not unaware of what they do.
Thy Lord is The Sufficient, Possessor of Mercy. If He wills, He will cause you to be put away and will make a successor after you of whomever He wills, just as He caused you to grow from offspring of other folk.
Lo! that which ye are promised will surely come to pass, and ye cannot escape.
They assign unto Allah, of the crops and cattle which He created, a portion, and they say "This is Allah's" - in their make-believe - "and this is for (His) partners in regard to us." Thus that which (they assign) unto His partners in them reacheth not Allah and that which (they assign) unto Allah goeth to their (so-called) partners. Evil is their ordinance.
And, likewise, their belief in beings or powers that are supposed to have a share in God's divinity makes the slaying of their children seem goodly to many of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God, thus bringing them to ruin and confusing them in their faith. Yet, unless God had so willed, they would not be doing all this stand, therefore, aloof from them and all their false imagery!
And they say Such cattle and crops are forbidden. No-one is to eat of them save whom we will - in their make-believe - cattle whose backs are forbidden, cattle over which they mention not the name of Allah. (All that is) a lie against Him. He will repay them for that which they invent.
And they say That which is in the bellies of such cattle is reserved for our males and is forbidden to our wives; but if it be born dead, then they (all) may be partakers thereof. He will reward them for their attribution (of such ordinances unto Him). Lo, He is Wise, Aware.
Those who have stupidly killed their own children without having any knowledge (ignorant) and forbidden something God has provided them with, have lost out through inventing things about God; they have gone astray and not accepted guidance.

3212
If only thou couldst see when the guilty ones will bend low their heads before their Lord, (saying "Our Lord! We have seen and we have heard Now then send us back (to the world) we will work righteousness for we do indeed (now) believe."
If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance but the Word from Me will come true, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."
So taste, because you neglected the meeting of this day of yours; surely We forsake you; and taste the abiding chastisement for what you used to do (and are).
The only people who believe in Our revelations are those whom when they are reminded by them, they fall prostrating, and they glorify the praise of their Lord, and they are not arrogant.

Prostrate, if this isn't enough for you, I will produce more.

FreedomStands

Sorry if you're angry, but I think its good to feel the rage! I didn't mean to insult you personally, I'm talking about anyone who comforts themselves with having "no fear".

sushi1992

I don't have no fear... That's a fact lol... Not when it comes to actually dying anyway.

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with those verses.

If the creator willed, people would all be one nation, but that's not the case because People will reject, and people will want greed and power, that is how it is. God could have willed there to be no darkness, but there is darkness so that we can distinguish light and dark... What's your point? I am ralready aware that if God willed, we would all be happy and all in heaven enjoying eternal bliss. Can you not see that God is saying people will ultimately reject because some people thrive on rejecting knowing that it is wrong??? All we are told about the ignorant is that they will return to God and God will make aware what they have done/said. The evildoers or wicked are described as ones who reject and aggress and are bent on the truth, that if they had all the signs in the world they will still reject. God has placed a cover over their hearts and made them deaf blind and dumb, the rejectors are happy to be in denial and are narrow minded and do not wish to open up with their own views. they also wish to cause corruption in the land, fabricating and causing upset... This goes further than ignorance... I can clearly see that someone who is ignorant and someone who causes corruption in the land and being SLY and knowing the truth but hiding and covering it in their hearts is far worse... Many verses prove this!

And it's cool, I will only become enraged if I feel someone is having a dig at me. Though I bring peace, I only attack in self defense so you're safe for the time being elektro

FreedomStands

1035
Say Is there any of your associates who guides to the truth? Say Allah guides to the truth. Is He then Who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed, or he who himself does not go aright unless he is guided? What then is the matter with you; how do you judge?Most of them follow not but conjecture. Assuredly conjecture can by no means take the place of truth. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do.
And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.
Or do they say, "He forged it"? say "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"
Nay, but they denied that, the knowledge whereof they could not compass, and whereof the interpretation (in events) hath not yet come unto them. Even so did those before them deny. Then see what was the consequence for the wrong-doers!
Some of them believe in it while others do not believe in it. Your Lord is quite Aware as to who are corrupt.
And if they call you a liar, say My work is for me and your work for you; you are clear of what I do and I am clear of what you do.
And of them are some who listen unto thee. But canst thou make the deaf to hear even though they apprehend not?
And of them is he who looketh toward thee. But canst thou guide the blind even though they see not?
1044
God does not make mistakes, people make mistakes.
And on the day when He will gather them as though they had not stayed but an hour of the day, they will know each other. They will perish indeed who called the meeting with Allah to be a lie, and they are not followers of the right direction.
Whether We let thee (O Muhammad) behold something of that which We promise them or (whether We) cause thee to die, still unto Us is their return, and Allah, moreover, is Witness over what they do.
Every nation has a messenger. Once their messenger has come, judgement will be passed upon them in all fairness and there will be no mistake
They say "When will this promise come to pass,- if ye speak the truth?"
Say "I have no power over any harm or profit to myself except as Allah willeth. To every people is a term appointed when their term is reached, not an hour can they cause delay, nor (an hour) can they advance (it in anticipation)."
Say "Have you ever considered if His chastisement were to befall you by night or by day? What could there be in that prospect that people lost in sin should wish to hasten?
Will you believe in it only after it has overtaken you, although it was your wish to hurry it on?
Then the evil-doers will be told, Taste the everlasting punishment. Have you not been rewarded according to your deeds (what you were, and what you are)?
And they ask thee to inform them (saying) Is it true? Say Yea, by my Lord, verily it is true, and ye cannot escape.
And if every individual that has done wrong had all that is in the earth, it would offer it for ransom, and they will manifest regret when they see the chastisement and the matter shall be decided between them rightly and there is no mistake
Lo! verily all that is in the heavens and the earth is Allah's. Lo! verily Allah's promise is true. But most of them know not.
It is He Who giveth life and who taketh it, and to Him shall ye all be brought back.
O MANKIND! There has now come unto you an admonition from your Sustainer, and a cure for all that may be in men's hearts, and guidance and grace unto all who believe .
Say "In bounty of God and in His grace-in this, then, let them rejoice it is better than all that they may amass!"
Say "Have you ever considered all the means of sustenance which God has bestowed upon you from on high -and which you thereupon divide into 'things forbidden' and 'things lawful? Say "Has God given you leave -or do you, perchance, attribute your own guesswork to God?"
But what do they think-they who attribute their own lying inventions to God-. on the Day of Resurrection? Behold, God is indeed limitless in His bounty unto men -but most of them are ungrateful.
AND IN whatever condition thou mayest find thyself, and whatever discourse of this thou mayest be reciting, and whatever work you may do - We are your witness when you enter upon it for, not even an atom's weight on earth or in heaven escapes thy Sustainer's knowledge; and neither is there anything smaller than that, or larger, but is recorded in clear decree.
No doubt with the faithful friends of God there will be neither fear in them nor will they feel remorse.
They who believed and have been fearing God;
Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter - There is no changing the Words of Allah - that is the Supreme Triumph.
And be not grieved by the sayings of those . Behold, all might and glory belong to God alone He alone is all-hearing, all-knowing.
Lo! is it not unto Allah that belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and whosoever is in the earth? Those who follow aught instead of Allah follow not (His) partners. They follow only a conjecture, and they do but guess.
He it is Who hath appointed for you the night that ye should rest therein and the day giving sight. Lo! herein verily are portents for a folk that heed.
They say Allah hath taken (unto Him) a son - Glorified be He! He hath no needs! His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. Ye have no warrant for this. Tell ye concerning Allah that which ye know not?
Say Verily those who invent a lie concerning Allah will not succeed.
This world's portion (will be theirs), then unto Us is their return. Then We make them taste a dreadful doom because they used to disbelieve.

FreedomStands

If anyone "knew the truth" they would not make corruption, because the truth is so horrifying. They certainly do not know. I showed the verses even that say they don't know, they guess, and showed you that Allah is controlling what they do and what they know and experience, just as he is you or me, and Allah does not make mistakes, he creates some for the fire, some for the paradise, just like Allah did not make a mistake creating the fish for the sea.

Not a single one "knows". The reason they are "blind" is because they aren't allowed to "see", the reason they are deaf is because they aren't allowed to hear, and the reason they are "without understanding" is because Allah does not give them understanding. That is clear, and the home of the ignorant ones is hell.

I tried to show you repeatedly, I can produce even more if you want because it is repeatedly in the Qur'an that they do not know, they do it out of ignorance, Allah has made them that way.

Are you even reading the full verses? I'm only bolding some parts, but read the whole thing please.

sushi1992

1035
Say Is there any of your associates who guides to the truth? Say Allah guides to the truth. Is He then Who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed, or he who himself does not go aright unless he is guided? What then is the matter with you; how do you judge?Most of them follow not but conjecture. Assuredly conjecture can by no means take the place of truth. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do.
And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.
Or do they say, "He forged it"? say "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"
Nay, but they denied that, the knowledge whereof they could not compass, and whereof the interpretation (in events) hath not yet come unto them. Even so did those before them deny. Then see what was the consequence for the wrong-doers!
Some of them believe in it while others do not believe in it. Your Lord is quite Aware as to who are corrupt.
And if they call you a liar, say My work is for me and your work for you; you are clear of what I do and I am clear of what you do.
And of them are some who listen unto thee. But canst thou make the deaf to hear even though they apprehend not?
And of them is he who looketh toward thee. But canst thou guide the blind even though they see not?
1044
God does not make mistakes, people make mistakes.
And on the day when He will gather them as though they had not stayed but an hour of the day, they will know each other. They will perish indeed who called the meeting with Allah to be a lie, and they are not followers of the right direction.
Whether We let thee (O Muhammad) behold something of that which We promise them or (whether We) cause thee to die, still unto Us is their return, and Allah, moreover, is Witness over what they do.
Every nation has a messenger. Once their messenger has come, judgement will be passed upon them in all fairness and there will be no mistake
They say "When will this promise come to pass,- if ye speak the truth?"
Say "I have no power over any harm or profit to myself except as Allah willeth. To every people is a term appointed when their term is reached, not an hour can they cause delay, nor (an hour) can they advance (it in anticipation)."
Say "Have you ever considered if His chastisement were to befall you by night or by day? What could there be in that prospect that people lost in sin should wish to hasten?
Will you believe in it only after it has overtaken you, although it was your wish to hurry it on?
Then the evil-doers will be told, Taste the everlasting punishment. Have you not been rewarded according to your deeds (what you were, and what you are)?
And they ask thee to inform them (saying) Is it true? Say Yea, by my Lord, verily it is true, and ye cannot escape.
And if every individual that has done wrong had all that is in the earth, it would offer it for ransom, and they will manifest regret when they see the chastisement and the matter shall be decided between them rightly and there is no mistake
Lo! verily all that is in the heavens and the earth is Allah's. Lo! verily Allah's promise is true. But most of them know not.
It is He Who giveth life and who taketh it, and to Him shall ye all be brought back.
O MANKIND! There has now come unto you an admonition from your Sustainer, and a cure for all that may be in men's hearts, and guidance and grace unto all who believe .
Say "In bounty of God and in His grace-in this, then, let them rejoice it is better than all that they may amass!"
Say "Have you ever considered all the means of sustenance which God has bestowed upon you from on high -and which you thereupon divide into 'things forbidden' and 'things lawful? Say "Has God given you leave -or do you, perchance, attribute your own guesswork to God?"
But what do they think-they who attribute their own lying inventions to God-. on the Day of Resurrection? Behold, God is indeed limitless in His bounty unto men -but most of them are ungrateful.
AND IN whatever condition thou mayest find thyself, and whatever discourse of this thou mayest be reciting, and whatever work you may do - We are your witness when you enter upon it for, not even an atom's weight on earth or in heaven escapes thy Sustainer's knowledge; and neither is there anything smaller than that, or larger, but is recorded in clear decree.
No doubt with the faithful friends of God there will be neither fear in them nor will they feel remorse.
They who believed and have been fearing God;
Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter - There is no changing the Words of Allah - that is the Supreme Triumph.
And be not grieved by the sayings of those . Behold, all might and glory belong to God alone He alone is all-hearing, all-knowing.
Lo! is it not unto Allah that belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and whosoever is in the earth? Those who follow aught instead of Allah follow not (His) partners. They follow only a conjecture, and they do but guess.
He it is Who hath appointed for you the night that ye should rest therein and the day giving sight. Lo! herein verily are portents for a folk that heed.
They say Allah hath taken (unto Him) a son - Glorified be He! He hath no needs! His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. Ye have no warrant for this. Tell ye concerning Allah that which ye know not?
Say Verily those who invent a lie concerning Allah will not succeed.
This world's portion (will be theirs), then unto Us is their return. Then We make them taste a dreadful doom because they used to disbelieve.

Again, what is the point you are trying to make. Yes I fear God in a sense. But we are told to fear God so we do not transgress or fall into the dark side. Not to sound arrogant but I don't fear God in the sense that I'll get struck by lightening or something like that as I thrive on being compassionate humble loving attentive and charitable continuously. So I don't fear my creator in many ways. I am fully aware that my creator can destroy me at will, or cause me to perish at will. I do indeed fear that my creator can terminate the lives of my parents... But again, I don't fear that because death is inevitable. Should one fear knowing that they have tried to be as good as possible and correct themselves if they have done a few mistakes in life? I have my own personal bond with my creator who knows what's in my heart, that it is open for all to see that I have no ulterior motives or sly or spiteful side to me. That I submit myself as much as possible. I love my creator and I bond with it everyday to keep me guided and on a straight path. To bestow peace protection harmony tranquillity and wisdom and bestow sustenance to the people who need it the most. I will fear my creator when I know I have done a bad thing and my ego causes me to continue it which, thank God, I have no done to this day. I have my morals and principles set in place and my creator knows my heart. What should I fear if my creator knows my heart? Should I fear that it knows my heart? I am not guilty of severe wrongdoings... So no... I trust my creator whole heartedly and I believe that regardless what I agree or disagree on with interpretations of books, that my creator is the best judge and will ALWAYS judge in fairness and equality. Justice will be served, I have no fear about that.

Peace

FreedomStands

Don't throw everyone into one basket "jinn dude", as I'm sure others will not be agreeing with you.

haha, just to make sure you understood my comments about the "jinn" thing.

The Qur'an says that the jinn are made out of fire while the humankind is made out of clay, the jinn are made before the humankind, the jinn are worshiped by people sometimes and associated with Allah as partners and sons and daughters, and the jinn can be Muslims or disbelievers. Allah has created some humans and jinn for disbelief and going to hell, and some for belief and paradise is for those who are Muslims.

Man of Faith says that the term jinn means faithless, even though it says there are Muslims among them and they believe in Allah, so I was saying that I am someone who has no faith, none whatsoever, if faith is to mean "blind faith", so that by his definition, I might be a "jinn".

I'm happy to be called "jinn" or "jinn dude" though, so that can be a nickname for me if you want haha.

I'm happy to be called a Shaitan, A Mad Man, A Liar, and whatever people might say, such were the epithets given to the Believers throughout the ages.

I am a Satan (meaning Enemy) to the disbelievers and miscreants who lie, the ones who make partners with Allah. Do you understand that the ancient "gods" were literally just words referring to natural things and concepts? "Justice" "Promise" "Faith" "Honor" "War" "Love" these are the things people used to associate and say Allah was bound to or partnered with and must abide by and must work with, that Allah is bound to love, Justice, etc, no Allah is not bound to anything, he creates whatever and all these concepts and controls them and controls everything, Allah is the authority, not Justice, these are the names of the "partners" literally, the "Gods" if you look up the meaning of their "names" are just words and connected to concepts.

I am a mad man, because I know that Allah creates my reality, none of this is stable or reliable or lasting if Allah wills to change it, in an instant it can be changed without any delay or process, its just information being fed to me, and whatever delusions are fed to me, and are fed to you, and even the actions we take and their results are all the creation of Allah, just information.

I am a Liar, because there is only one Eternal Truth, I myself am a transitory lie, I am not eternal, but I am only what Allah makes true, and then can make false. I am such and such, then I am such and such. The wood turned into a snake and the snake turned into the wood, which then is the truth regarding it? Is it a snake, or is it wood? Know then that Allah makes what is true, and Allah can change it, and Allah can turn truth into falsehood, falsehood into truth, and Allah has power over all things completely! Do you think you are a partner with Allah or the disbelievers are partners with Allah, that Allah rolls out the carpet under them like a servant where they "will" to go? No, where they "will" to go, is where Allah wills them to go, what they see, is what Allah makes them see, what they hear is what Allah makes them hear, and what they do is what they are made to do and be.

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds. SubhanAllah!

sushi1992

If anyone "knew the truth" they would not make corruption, because the truth is so horrifying. They certainly do not know. I showed the verses even that say they don't know, they guess, and showed you that Allah is controlling what they do and what they know and experience, just as he is you or me, and Allah does not make mistakes, he creates some for the fire, some for the paradise, just like Allah did not make a mistake creating the fish for the sea.

Not a single one "knows". The reason they are "blind" is because they aren't allowed to "see", the reason they are deaf is because they aren't allowed to hear, and the reason they are "without understanding" is because Allah does not give them understanding. That is clear, and the home of the ignorant ones is hell.

I tried to show you repeatedly, I can produce even more if you want because it is repeatedly in the Qur'an that they do not know, they do it out of ignorance, Allah has made them that way.

Are you even reading the full verses? I'm only bolding some parts, but read the whole thing please.

Of course I'm reading the full verses. I've read the Qur'an many times. I have not read the verses in such a way I.e. the translations. It gives me a headache tbh... You ever tried using quranix.org for your translations??????

So you are saying ALL ignorant people go hell. You also say that Allah controls us. So we have no freedom of choice in that case. I agree we may not have free will as such but then we don't have free choice according to your logic, because God has already determined they will not see the truth. What do you understand by this?

Let me test you.

I gave you a scenario about someone in North Korea. I don't want to repeat myself as I have to wake up for work in 3 hours. I'm sure you can read the scenario. Please, tell me what you think of it? I'm curious!

sushi1992