Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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ASA to all,
I'm visiting FM after a long time, and I probably wouldn't even have posted except that I got into an argument with my family about Fasting. Suffice to say, it didn't end well for any of us, and I've put my family into a lot of stress because of my lack of clarity about my beliefs.
PeaceSalaam and welcome back
At least your family didn't abandoned you to some remote Island where you would have to wait for summer and then using a natural sundial cut from a coconut to keep track of time of day and the length of the shadow.
Afterwards you start looking for the full-moon. This full-moon will also be special because it will take a very low path accross the horizon and for the first few hours after it rises will appear reddish in color hail
! Next time you have argument with your family make sure you have a sundial or a gnomon or any tall vertical object for the solstice determination
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The orbit of the Earth is slowing down by a fraction of a second every year. The rotation of the Earth is also slowing each year, so they cannot be considered fixed or constant. Also, as the moon is receding from the Earth, it's orbit around the Earth is slowing.
Thanks Rev
Time to get meal ready to break fast so will catch up later insha'Allah
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Peace all,
So God can not use this term, He has to tell us start and end markers, and when ever he actually wanted to use the period a "lunar month", He used the term fasayamm shahreen. The days between two markers. what ever they turn out to be, 29 or 30.
siki
I agree...that's the only and easiest way for people all around the world, space and time, (even those stranded in farida's island) to have understanding of time frames without the use of any technical instrument for measuring.
Peace Rev..
If the earth and moon are slowing down by a fraction of second every year , the this would be insignificant in a human life. Moreover, the time frame between two solstices will still be a fixed year within this same humain life or even the whole human civilisation.
As Br.Ayman said in one of hiw posts, the time frame between 2 summer solstices has always been equal to a year , and will still be , in a million years from now. whether this year is 365.2xxx , 360,9xxx or 150,8xxx days.Salam
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Peace all,
I agree...that's the only and easiest way for people all around the world, space and time, (even those stranded in farida's island) to have understanding of time frames without the use of any technical instrument for measuring.
Peace Rev..
If the earth and moon are slowing down by a fraction of second every year , the this would be insignificant in a human life and still a year between two solstices will be fixed within this same humain life or even the whole human civilisation.
As Br.Ayman said in one of hiw posts, the time frame between 2 summer solstices has always been equal to a year , and will still be , in a million years from now. whether this year is 365.2xxx , 360,9xxx or 150,8xxx days.Salam
Yes this is true. I was just making the point that there is no such thing as a fixed point in space/time as everything in the universe is moving and speeds change. If you calculate back 1400 or 2000 years ago, it has made a difference in the time between two solstices and the time between the phases of the moon.
I agree that as far as humans are concerned, the change is not very significant within their lifetime.
peace -
Peace all,
I agree...that's the only and easiest way for people all around the world, space and time, (even those stranded in farida's island) to have understanding of time frames without the use of any technical instrument for measuring.
Peace Rev..
If the earth and moon are slowing down by a fraction of second every year , the this would be insignificant in a human life and still a year between two solstices will be fixed within this same humain life or even the whole human civilisation.
As Br.Ayman said in one of hiw posts, the time frame between 2 summer solstices has always been equal to a year , and will still be , in a million years from now. whether this year is 365.2xxx , 360,9xxx or 150,8xxx days.Salam
I agree, moreover Rev , As the civilization has progressed to a level where we have managed to discover the info regarding slowing down of orbits by a second, He in his infinite wisdom knew, that by then we will be able to make "week , hour seconds , nanoseconds etc, and use them. Does he restrict us to using his timing devices only?
siki
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I agree, moreover Rev , As the civilization has progressed to a level where we have managed to discover the info regarding slowing down of orbits by a second, He in his infinite wisdom knew, that by then we will be able to make "week , hour seconds , nanoseconds etc, and use them. Does he restrict us to using his timing devices only?
siki
Of course we have the ability to add a leap second or leap day here and there to adjust our man-made time keeping to fit in with the "natural" time on the Earth, but it does change our calculations of events in history or the future.
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Peace Ayman,
As you found out, the starting date of the new era has nothing to do with the supposed date of the Hijra. The Hijri era month 1 actually started about 56 days earlier. So the start date of this new era is a big lie that in reality has nothing to do with the event it claims to be based on. Had month 1 been based on the actual supposed date of Hijra or the closest new moon to it, then the entire era would have been pushed 2 months and this year's Ramadan would be in two months.
Moreover, your entire calculation is erroneous because it ignores that according to the same sectarian sources that you used to conjecture the dates of the various events, the intercalary month was abolished in the year when the prophet died. If you factor this then the 26 Safar date would occur about 89 days (three lunar months) earlier and your dates will be off. So you are essentially implying that the prophet always fasted on the wrong dates.
Again it is an indisputable fact that the present so-called Ramadan is 100% arbitrary and it depends on when some guy decided the era was to start and with which month it started and on the 100% manmade order of the months.
Yet you completely ignore the sun as if 105 didn't mention it. This also results in you completely ignoring 1712 as if the verse didn't exist.
Impossible (full-moon is affecting your mind), without the sun there cannot be moon phases.
Muslim calendar started 1st month Muharram in 622 CE
Hijrah event was in the 3rd month Safar that same year- Cannot fast a full-moon
- Cannot tell a full-moon from a 98% full-moon
- Cannot apply full-moon illusion
- Hunting restriction swings by a month from June 21 to July 20
- Widows wait different time lengths depending on date of event
- Men fast different time lengths for same offense depending on date of event
- The blind, those with poor vision, and those living in cloudy weather cannot fast
- No mention using full-moon calendars and denies all prior lunar new crescent calendars
- Denies history only 10 years after events
PERF 558, basic logic, and history completely destroys the full-moon fantasy.
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handshake quickduck sun
In the past we used to get responses in support of Ayman from the eloquent ones now it?s been switched to a different category. yeah
Farida , peace
Ya. yeah ,, Most definitely that calls for an alarm on your end that even the beginners have started to digest it with a relative ease.
But As HE said, It would never penetrate, where the hearts are sealed , and ears are locked. because they would always follow what their elders followed, what their preachers preached, but do ponder , what if they were wrong?
siki
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Peace Rev,
Of course we have the ability to add a leap second or leap day here and there to adjust our man-made time keeping to fit in with the "natural" time on the Earth, but it does change our calculations of events in history or the future.
Yes, but when Ayman said that the summer solstice is in june 21th, they accused him of using man made calendar to apply god's timing system. I see no evil at using weeks, hours, minutes and seconds in our practical daily life, although they have no basis in the quran. But the evil will be ignoring God's timing system for the religious duties. That's the main point.
salam
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Peace Rev,
Yes, but when Ayman said that the summer solstice is in june 21th, they accused him of using man made calendar to apply god's timing system. I see no evil at using weeks, hours, minutes and seconds in our practical daily life, although they have no basis in the quran. But the evil will be ignoring God's timing system for the religious duties. That's the main point.
salam
Yes I understand. But the only time most people understand is our man-made, inaccurate calenders and time keeping. Time is relevant to where you are and how fast you are travelling. So there can never be an accurate fixed time
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Sorry, Siki... I might not be understanding you correctly, but when I say "Month", I don't mean the conventional Gregorian month or any other organized month for that matter. I'm just using a generalized one-word term for "Shahar", which basically seems to me as the time frame between 2 consecutive same moon phases, used in the same sense as 936. Not attributing a fixed number to them. It's a count from one marker to the other, right?
When God uses the term shahar, He wants us to wait, and then take reference from his marker to start, Not , that we start next day what ever moon shape we see till it returns.
Because next day we might not find the moon. What if it is the thinnest waxing crescent,and is not visible , or may be he does not want us to stay awake whole night, looking for it, if it is the thinnest waning crescent, which only has a very small visibility just before dawn.Nor does he want us to count more than Ayaam ul Madoodat (a few days which could be easily remembered and tracked on both hands fingers) , because people were uneducated and could mess up the count.
He had to recommend something which could not be missed, so that one could see it, start, forget about the count , continue the practice, and finish when one saw the same bright marker again.
I hope this helps.
siki
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Br. Siki,
We're probably on the same track but I think there still might be a communication gap. Let me try and break this down. Your understanding is,
1 - "Shahar" = Full Moon.
2 - 936 mentions 12 Full Moons.
3 - 1 Shahar is the time between 2 Full Moons.Am I correct?
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Peace Rex,
Peace Ayman,
Impossible (full-moon is affecting your mind), without the sun there cannot be moon phases.
Muslim calendar started 1st month Muharram in 622 CE
Hijrah event was in the 3rd month Safar that same year- Cannot fast a full-moon
- Cannot tell a full-moon from a 98% full-moon
- Cannot apply full-moon illusion
- Hunting restriction swings by a month from June 21 to July 20
- Widows wait different time lengths depending on date of event
- Men fast different time lengths for same offense depending on date of event
- The blind, those with poor vision, and those living in cloudy weather cannot fast
- No mention using full-moon calendars and denies all prior lunar new crescent calendars
- Denies history only 10 years after events
PERF 558, basic logic, and history completely destroys the full-moon fantasy.
i'll try to answer your 9 points as of my understanding after reading this thread
1- but you cannot either have witnessed (past tense ) the hole "month" and then fast it.
2- yes but the main point is not witnessing all the "almost full moons" , it's about witnessing the first one that rises after sunset (even if it is only 95% full moon). then you fast until the crescent phase (max 10 days).3- i think point 2 answers this ...
4- Not only swings , but it is also very different for both hemispheres. But one thing is a fact the wildlife follows a lunar-seasons system. you cannot ignore that.5- what do you think is the purpose for widows to wait?? isn't for making sure that they're not pregnant if they decide to marry again ?? that seems logical for me that they don't wait the same time depending on their menstruating cycle. because as we all know, the menstruating event alters chances of pregnancy.
6- It's not true !!! Men fast exactly the same time frame between Two consecutive "shahrayn" . if a man do the offense, so he must wait until he sees the full moon , then start fastin until the next full moon . All the Men fast the same time length !!!!!!!!!!! A B C ...easy like 1 2 3 ...
7- in my understanding, the arabic word "shahida" doesn't strictly means "witness by sight". It also means to attend/to be present at. (i.e the olympic stadium "shahida" a great game) (i.e n?2, this forum is "yash'hado" a great debate about ramadan issue). So if the blind person is not living alone in farida's lost island, he will probably know by someone else that the moon is "full" tonight.
8- i'll be pleased to comment this point if i first understand what you mean by it.
9- History may deny the full moon theory, but not the 8 points above.
salam
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Peace sharp001
Br. Siki,
We're probably on the same track but I think there still might be a communication gap. Let me try and break this down. Your understanding is,
1 - "Shahar" = Full Moon.
2 - 936 mentions 12 Full Moons.
3 - 1 Shahar is the time between 2 Full Moons.Am I correct?
1 - Yes, "shahar" seems to mean "full moon".
2- Yes, 936 told us to count EXACTLY 12 "full moons" every year. And as the year is solar dependant (the only definition of the year that fits the quran is the year is the time frame between 2 shortest/longest day/night, i.e summer solstices or winter solstices). So a "solar" year must contain only 12 full moons, yhe occasional 13 th full moon must be skipped.
3- No, 1 "humain month" is the time between 2 full moons. like a ''humain hour" is the time frame that last 60 " humain minutes" or 3600 "humain seconds". No quranic basis for humain "month" ,"hour" "minutes" nor "seconds"Salam
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3- No, 1 "humain month" is the time between 2 full moons. like a ''humain hour" is the time frame that last 60 " humain minutes" or 3600 "humain seconds". No quranic basis for humain "month" ,"hour" "minutes" nor "seconds"
You lost me here, QD... What is a "Humain month"?
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Salam,
7- in my understanding, the arabic word "shahida" doesn't strictly means "witness by sight". It also means to attend/to be present at. (i.e the olympic stadium "shahida" a great game) (i.e n?2, this forum is "yash'hado" a great debate about ramadan issue). So if the blind person is not living alone in farida's lost island, he will probably know by someone else that the moon is "full" tonight.
THAT'S THE WORD SHA HI DA not BA SHO RO... Everyone here can make SHAHADA to The God.. So everyone here can SHA HI DA shahru romadhona without actually seen it and fast...
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salam sharp
You lost me here, QD... What is a "Humain month"?
A "humain month", (like humain hour , minutes, seconds, etc..) are man made tools for timing humain life matters and not religious ones. The only timing devices that have basis in the quran are the day (yawm), the night (layl), the moon phases including it's more obvious state (the full moon = shahr) and the years (sanat or 3am). Also there are the words (7awl = Cycle) . a humain month it's the time frame believed to be as "shahr". But when you realize that "shahr" means "full moon" you'll start understanding