Hot/"ramadan" Answer

ayman

Peace Farida,

Ok let?s put our timing to the test; Please provide us with YOUR detailed calculations,(no indication or as *) like the recent contributors have done below
Page 68 Eid Abdullah - Reply #1024 on Reply #1005 on August 09, 2009, 123931 AM and Reply #1011 on August 10, 2009, 052759 AM ??AM
Page 68, Guest- Reply #1009 on August 09, 2009, 080345 PM
Page 70 Gues - Reply #1037 on August 16, 2009, 042005 PM ?Disproved your theory
The length of days between July 6, 2009 and June 25, 2010 is 354 days. This is lunar based timing system which does not synch up with the seasons.
Page 76 Rex?s Reply #1136 on August 23, 2009, 015700 PM ? Rolled back calculations for the Muslim(not Islamic) calendar
Page 78 Rex -Reply #1163 on August 24, 2009, 074701 PM ? calculations showing it is Impossible without the sun there cannot be moon phases.
Page 81 Rex?s Reply #1202 on August 26, 2009, 042940 AM ? about your "Hot Moon Fantasy"...
page 84 Guest with his detailed calculation ? Reply #1253 on August 29, 2009, 080443 PM ?
With no 13th moon, we loose 8 year periodicity. And if we add all the years we get 361.233. No connection to solar cycle. Re? Contradiction.

You don't need a calculation to tell you that the moon cycle is 29-30 days and therefore the first-full-moon after the solstice will ALWAYS be 1-29 days after the solstice even in a MILLION years. It is not my problem that you are not intelligent enough to figure this out without a calculator.

where is the connection between solar year and the solstice interval satisfying the condition ?absolutely clear that the year is solar??

Please see 1712. The ONLY way 1712 can be used to know the number of years is if the year is solar and is measured as the interval between solstices. If you are not intelligent enough to read 1712 and understand its implications then let me know and I can provide a link to the last post where I explained this.

This is just your opinion we want proof

Why do I need to prove that the sectarian Hajj takes place from 8th of Dhu Al-Hijja to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijja? It is also a fact that your sectarian arbitrary restricted ?months? are months 11, 12, and 1 and then you suddenly haphazardly jump to month 7 (Rajab). This is what the people that you blindly follow do. Go ask Guest and Progressive and Rex if you don't believe me. It is an indisputable fact that wild life follow the solar cycle. Thus, they migrate and breed in accordance with the solar cycle, not the lunar cycle. It is not my problem that you are so ignorant that you don't know these basic facts or even your own crap that you are following.

Big and bold writings cannot obscure that this thread is about Ramadan not hajj, fftopic there is another thread going on to discuss hajj etc yes

The thread is about the timing. Of course, in your arbitrary world nothing is related and nothing makes sense. You brought 936-37 into your argument, which have to do with "al-ashhur al-haram", which in turn have to do with "hajj". It is again not my problem that you ignore these basic facts and are not intelligent enough to see a connection. As Is said neither Rex, Guest, Progressive, or you will EVER be able to answer this question

Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".

Haven?t we read this many times before, same old same old; here are your recent samples;

Even if you go for a Million years into the future, you will find that the first full-moon after the summer solstice will always occur within 1-29 days after the summer solstice. It will thus always be in the same season and will never haphazardly move within the year. muscle You will NEVER be able to answer because just like everything else in your manmade useless unintelligent system, your timing for "hajj" is 100% arbitrary and it neither starts nor ends with the crescent..
& I don?t want to go into a million years nor am I going for hajj brickwall

You are a hypocrite and a coward. Just get a spine and admit that you don't know the answer. At any rate, thank you for continuing to prove me right with your lame excuses and evasiveness and thank you Rex, Guest and Progressive too for proving me right with your complete silence on this question. Indeed truth destroys falsehood.

Peace,

Ayman

farida

Peace,

937 But the postponement an increase in the disbelief, those who disbelieved become misguided with it, they permit a year and they forbid a year, to agree to (the) term (that) God prohibited, so they permit what God prohibited, and (the) evil (of) their deeds was beautified for them, and God does not guide the people the disbelieving.

Full Moon Makkah, Saudi Arabia

http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=2013&n=151

2013 23-Jun 233 PM daytime
2016 20-Jul 157 AM

28 days difference end date included

How do you fast a full moon?

How do you see a full moon with poor vision or if blind?

How do you see a full moon if living in cloudy weather?

Salaam brother

Nice to see that you are back to handle your part in this thread and, hopefully you won't be driven away by cheap tactics. I see you have three questions above along with 937; I just have one suggestion for you and everyone else, that is could we discuss one topic at a time? That way we can fully exhaust the issue before moving to the next so we may discuss in anorderly manner for everyone interested in this thread.

peace

ayman

Peace Progressive,

Ayman, you are ignoring my points... (
Nothing new, I guess...
To hard to counter/answer?

I ignore you becaue I already answered this. Here are my answers again

There you go..you directly answered my question "how can it be reveled IN the MOON of Ramadan." Stop making excuses and baseless accusations like you always do.

I never said such thing. I said it was descended in a scorching full-moon. This is the same as saying it descended in a blazing sun or a cloudy day, etc. Just like all the phases of the moon, the scorching moon is an entirely optical phenomenon.

what sounds more logical to you

The Quran was revelaed IN THE MONTH OF RAMDAN
or
The Quran was revealed IN THE MOON OF SCORCHING HEAT?
Put the whole Ramadan issue aside - which one sounds more logical to you language-wise?

The great reading is about consistency. The great reading was descended in a scorching full-moon is more logical because it is consistent with the rest of the passage and other passages. For example, it is consistent with the following facts

The great reading was revealed in the night of measure (1 night not a whole month).
If you scan all the occurrences of the word "measure" then you will realize that the night of measure is connected to the moon. Specifically, we are told that the moon is measured in descending stages until it becomes the crescent shape. Since the passage is talking about descending stages then it is impossible for the measure to start from anything other than the full-moon. So the night of measure is essentially the same time as the scorching full-moon.
The false understanding of ?month? creates an insurmountable logical absurdity since ?shahid? (witnessed) is in the perfect past tense so this implies that you have to witness the month and then go back in time and fast. Thus even the staunchest Sunnis admit that this passage is talking about witnessing an event (they claim to be the new moon crescent) and not a month. Rex and you can try to change the words of the passage to make it say ?witness the first day of the month? or whatever but this is not what the passage is saying.

From submission.org/fasting-bible.html
Jeremiah 366. "Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the Lord in the ears of the people in the Lord's house upon the fasting day and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities." Here we find a definite practice of fasting. The following verses will show that this is not just a day of fasting, but precisely a month. More detail on this day of fasting is given in verse nine "And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the Lord to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem." This is not a special fast proclaimed by a religious ruler, because this particular king was wicked. Nevertheless, he did follow the formality of what was practiced the month of fasting. The time given for this fasting is stated to be the ninth month.
The season of the fast in this particular year, thought by many scholars to be 604 B.C., is stated to be in the winter. Jeremiah 3622, "Now the king sat in the winter house in the ninth month and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him." Now the present Jewish calendar adds a thirteenth month from time to time to match the solar year, so that the ninth month of the civil year (used in the dates of kings' reigns) falls in May or June, summer in Palestine. If we project the lunar calendar presently used in the Middle East back in history, we find that the ninth month falls in November of the year 604 B.C. It appears that during Bible times a purely lunar calendar was used, and the ninth month was a month of fasting.
Indeed, God did not lie when he said
2183 O you who acknowledge, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you that perhaps you may be righteous/aware.
Ayman, do you have any evidence of monotheists having fasted after witnessing the "moon of scorching heat"?? Do you have ANY evidence? I showed you my evidence for the real Ramadan - not the fabricated, one-third "Ramadan" of yours. Are you still going to reject the real Ramadan, and not fast for a full month - not just your lousy 10 days?

This is just some ignorant crap as typical from Submission.org. The fast in the Bible is prescribed as one day and not a whole month. If you believe in the Bible then you might as well go ahead and idolize Jesus. An example of a Jewish fast is that of Taanit Bkhorot which happens on the day before the full-moon. Also, the 9th month of the Hebrew Calendar is Kislev which occurs in the November-December timeframe.

There is no evidence of a month called Ramadan, let alone a 10 day period called Ramadan. I never said that it is a name so you are, as usual, building a strawman. I said that it is a common noun. The burden of proof is on you to show that there was a pre-Islamic month called Ramadan. I know you can?t prove it.

Peace,

Ayman

farida

Peace Farida,

You don't need a calculation to tell you that the moon cycle is 29-30 days and therefore the first-full-moon after the solstice will ALWAYS be 1-29 days after the solstice even in a MILLION years. It is not my problem that you are not intelligent enough to figure this out without a calculator.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman

Let me tell you I have mice in my kitchen, each of which outshines you, intelligence-wise . I will give you this though; you are way above me in one respect...you'll never guess. Anyone?... Thaaat's right Arrogance!
Btw. so you do admit that the full lunar cycle is 29 to 30 days whether after the solstice or not.

Please see 1712. The ONLY way 1712 can be used to know the number of years is if the year is solar and is measured as the interval between solstices. If you are not intelligent enough to read 1712 and understand its implications then let me know and I can provide a link to the last post where I explained this.

I would really appreciate if you realised that I am not in the mood to jump from one topic to another so let's just do one at a time. OK?

Why do I need to prove that the sectarian Hajj takes place from 8th of Dhu Al-Hijja to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijja? It is also a fact that your sectarian arbitrary restricted ?months? are months 11, 12, and 1 and then you suddenly haphazardly jump to month 7 (Rajab). This is what the people that you blindly follow do. Go ask Guest and Progressive and Rex if you don't believe me. It is an indisputable fact that wild life follow the solar cycle. Thus, they migrate and breed in accordance with the solar cycle, not the lunar cycle. It is not my problem that you are so ignorant that you don't know these basic facts or even your own crap that you are following

No one is asking you to discuss "the sectarian Hajj". We are on free minds discussing free minds-understanding, not YOURS . Btw this wild life preservation seems to be a good excuse for you to mess up everybody's understanding. Even at the expense of killling innocent, unarmed people it is not your concern. Right?

The thread is about the timing. Of course, in your arbitrary world nothing is related and nothing makes sense. You brought 936-37 into your argument, which have to do with "al-ashhur al-haram", which in turn have to do with "hajj". It is again not my problem that you ignore these basic facts and are not intelligent enough to see a connection. As Is said neither Rex, Guest, Progressive, or you will EVER be able to answer this question

Yes we would come to hajj too but, for now, let's sort out the basic warning of making no adjustment in order to circumvent the count, which includes adding or substracting the 13th month to get YOUR desired result. Am I right? Course I am!

Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".

I don't need to tell anyone anything you have taken upon yourself to tell, on my behalf in big bold script, despite knowing very well that I DO NO FOLLOW YOUR "traditional arbitrary calendar"

You are a hypocrite and a coward. Just get a spine and admit that you don't know the answer. At any rate, thank you for continuing to prove me right with your lame excuses and evasiveness and thank you Rex, Guest and Progressive too for proving me right with your complete silence on this question. Indeed truth destroys falsehood.

yeah One more thing; take a piece of soap to to your tongue and scrub it well. Now can we go back to discussing all issues one at a time and progress to final picture in an orderly manner? Please.

peace

ayman

Peace NunHolidayPseudoEidRex,

Wait I got to take my breath after pronouncing your name.

OK, let?s continue. )

937 But the postponement an increase in the disbelief, those who disbelieved become misguided with it, they permit a year and they forbid a year, to agree to (the) term (that) God prohibited, so they permit what God prohibited, and (the) evil (of) their deeds was beautified for them, and God does not guide the people the disbelieving.

Exactly, they permit a year and they forbid a year, permit a year and they forbid a year, and so on. The passage is talking about alternating a practice by doing it one year and not doing it another. This results from not following 936. This means that the problem in 937 results from not counting EXACTLY 12 ?shahr? every year, out of which 4 are inviolable.

Full Moon Makkah, Saudi Arabia
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=2013&n=151
2013 23-Jun 233 PM daytime
2016 20-Jul 157 AM
28 days difference end date included

Why did you deliberately not show 2014 and 2015? Because you know that the difference from a year to a year and so on is NEVER a lunar cycle or even close to it. If you were honest then you would have shown the whole data. Also, even if you go a million years, the scorching full-moon will always be in early summer (1-29 days after the summer solstice).

On the other hand, you can NEVER answer the following according to 936-37

You arbitrarily POSTPONE one of your supposed restricted months (Rajab) for six months after the other 3.
Your restricted period moves around all over the year.
You violate 936-37 and 1712 which clearly indicates that the year is solar by counting 12.3 months in a year and not EXACTLY 12.
You will also never be able to answer how your arbitrary so-called Hajj from 8 to 13 of Dhu AlHijjah is timed using the crescents as per 2189.

How do you fast a full moon?

Please learn to read. I already answered this here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg218453#msg218453

The Arabic third person masculine pronoun "hu", consistently with the preceding "hu" refers back to "the abstinence"

O you who believe, the abstinence has been decreed for you like it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.
A few days and if any of you is ill or traveling, then a count of different days; and as for those who tolerate it (with difficulty), they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you abstain it is better for you if you knew.
A scorching full-moon, is when the great reading was descended; as a guide to the people and a clarification from the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever from you witnessed the full-moon, then he shall abstain it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then a count of different days. The god wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and complete the count, and glorify the god for what he has guided you, that you may be thankful.

It is normal in the Arabic of the great reading that pronouns can refer to something which was mentioned in a prior verse. For example, the pronoun "hiya" at the end of 7431 refers to "saqar" all the way back in 7426.

How do you see a full moon with poor vision or if blind?
How do you see a full moon if living in cloudy weather?

It is not my problem that you are not intelligent enough to see that the words ?man shahid minkum? (whoever from you witnessed) imply that some from you will not witness. Otherwise, saying ?whoever from you? is completely redundant if everyone just fasts without witnessing anything.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Farida,

Let me tell you I have mice in my kitchen, each of which outshines you, intelligence-wise . I will give you this though; you are way above me in one respect...you'll never guess. Anyone?... Thaaat's right Arrogance!
Btw. so you do admit that the full lunar cycle is 29 to 30 days whether after the solstice or not.
I would really appreciate if you realised that I am not in the mood to jump from one topic to another so let's just do one at a time. OK?
No one is asking you to discuss "the sectarian Hajj". We are on free minds discussing free minds-understanding, not YOURS . Btw this wild life preservation seems to be a good excuse for you to mess up everybody's understanding. Even at the expense of killling innocent, unarmed people it is not your concern. Right?
Yes we would come to hajj too but, for now, let's sort out the basic warning of making no adjustment in order to circumvent the count, which includes adding or substracting the 13th month to get YOUR desired result. Am I right? Course I am!
I don't need to tell anyone anything you have taken upon yourself to tell, on my behalf in big bold script, despite knowing very well that I DO NO FOLLOW YOUR "traditional arbitrary calendar" yeah One more thing; take a piece of soap to to your tongue and scrub it well. Now can we go back to discussing all issues one at a time and progress to final picture in an orderly manner? Please.

You have no choice. You can't answer and you will NEVER answer even if you wanted to. I know it and you know it. So you are screaming mad and making all this noise to divert people's attention from this reality.

BTW, you might want to learn something from your mice because even mice are intelligent enough to follow the solar cycle and know that the fully lunar calendar is completely uselss (and get an exterminator because mice are not good for your family's health).

Peace,

Ayman

guest

Peace,

Can some body please tell me how to paste an Microsoft object (image/picture) in a post. I tried the image icon but didn't work. The text pane will not accept the object. If you know, please give me the steps. Sorry for posting this help request on this thread. Thank you in advance.

hope4

Peace,

Can some body please tell me how to paste an Microsoft object (image/picture) in a post. I tried the image icon but didn't work. The text pane will not accept the object. If you know, please give me the steps. Sorry for posting this help request on this thread. Thank you in advance.

Peace Guest

Apparently you need to witness it first ;D

Peace

Hope

ayman

Peace Guest,

Can some body please tell me how to paste an Microsoft object (image/picture) in a post. I tried the image icon but didn't work. The text pane will not accept the object. If you know, please give me the steps. Sorry for posting this help request on this thread. Thank you in advance.

Save your image as a GIF or JPEG.
Upload to an image sharing site such as
http//tinypic.com/
Paste the URL in an "img" tag.

I hope this helps (hopefully the picture has the answer to how your Hajj on 8th-13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah is timed using the crescents as per 2189).

Peace,

Ayman

farida

Peace Farida,

You have no choice. You can't answer and you will NEVER answer even if you wanted to. I know it and you know it. So you are screaming mad and making all this noise to divert people's attention from this reality.
Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman,

You want me to discuss with you the feast style Hajj on this thread before we fininsh with the subject of the month/moon of fasting pr Dr Ayman can't see further than preserving the wild life and devouring poor animals during Hajj that's all. Oh sorry I forgot about the ten days fast, provided it's not cloudy and you are able to see. You are obviously not blind given that blind people seem to have a sixth sense whereas you, apparently, have no sense.

(and get an exterminator because mice are not good for your family's health).

What about preserving the wild life ??? o

peace

farida

Peace Guest

Apparently you need to witness it first ;D

Peace

Hope

Not witness but "witnessed"(Past Tense) Shahr.

hmm Isn't it silly that often you get an announcement card for the birth of an infant, the teany weany new arrival, not much different from other babies, all babies look the same.
A cleaver idea is that the proud parents should wait till the child reaches full age, burning with desire just like a "full scorching moon"=Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous
peace

ayman

Peace Farida,

You want me to discuss with you the feast style Hajj on this thread before we fininsh with the subject of the month/moon of fasting pr Dr Ayman can't see further than preserving the wild life and devouring poor animals during Hajj that's all. Oh sorry I forgot about the ten days fast, provided it's not cloudy and you are able to see. You are obviously not blind given that blind people seem to have a sixth sense whereas you, apparently, have no sense.

You give yourself too much credit. I don't want to discuss with you. Everyone with even a little bit of intelligence can see that you hypocritically ignore even your own understanding of 2189 and mindlessly follow your traditional timing on 8th-13th of Dhu-Alhijjah for "hajj" (regardless of what "hajj" means). This is why you will NEVER be able to answer this question

Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".

The reason why you won't dare to answer is that you know (and everyone with any intelligence knows) that your timing for Hajj and your entire calendar is 100% arbitrary and has nothing to do with the crescents in blatant violation of 2189. You are not fooling anyone except those who are so lost like you that they can't understand anything from the god's message anyway.

PS (For the benefit of everyone who uses their god-given brain) The ONLY way that the crescent can be used to time "hajj" is if "hajj" started on the full-moon. There is simply no other way to time a 10 day period using the crescent.

Peace,

Ayman

farida

Peace Farida,

You give yourself too much credit. I don't want to discuss with you. Everyone with even a little bit of intelligence can see that you hypocritically ignore even your own understanding of 2189 and mindlessly follow your traditional timing on 8th-13th of Dhu-Alhijjah for "hajj" (regardless of what "hajj" means). This is why you will NEVER be able to answer this question

Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".

The reason why you won't dare to answer is that you know (and everyone with any intelligence knows) that your timing for Hajj and your entire calendar is 100% arbitrary and has nothing to do with the crescents in blatant violation of 2189. You are not fooling anyone except those who are so lost like you that they can't understand anything from the god's message anyway.

PS (For the benefit of everyone who uses their god-given brain) The ONLY way that the crescent can be used to time "hajj" is if "hajj" started on the full-moon. There is simply no other way to time a 10 day period using the crescent.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman,

I am sorry; your ranting has gone sooo boring that I don't even bother to read your full reply...you are like a kid who, wanting to have the last world, puts his fingers in his ears and, with eyes closed repeats you you you you you.
You know what; I understand the reason that gave birth to Muslim and Bukhari. It was because of people exactly like you, who were hell bent on destroying the deen, that the need arose for hadiths ... and again a disguised satan, in the form of Abu Huraira, sneaked in there too like in movie the "Devil's advocate".

peace
Ps In fact you have given yourself too much credit in believing that you can replace the Prophet.

unknownuser

Peace Ayman,

Exactly, they permit a year and they forbid a year, permit a year and they forbid a year, and so on. The passage is talking about alternating a practice by doing it one year and not doing it another. This results from not following 936. This means that the problem in 937 results from not counting EXACTLY 12 ?shahr? every year, out of which 4 are inviolable.

Not counting is called skipping which you are doing with your 13th full moon called no-name.

Why did you deliberately not show 2014 and 2015? Because you know that the difference from a year to a year and so on is NEVER a lunar cycle or even close to it. If you were honest then you would have shown the whole data. Also, even if you go a million years, the scorching full-moon will always be in early summer (1-29 days after the summer solstice).

To show your kill season drifts; kill them until June 23 in 2013 then kill them until July 20 in 2016.

Do animal mating habits drift by a lunar month every 3 years?

Likewise all the verses drift in hot moon, as men who swear away their wives start fasting immediately not next full moon.

583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must fast two successive months before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poor

On the other hand, you can NEVER answer the following according to 936-37

You arbitrarily POSTPONE one of your supposed restricted months (Rajab) for six months after the other 3.
Your restricted period moves around all over the year.
You violate 936-37 and 1712 which clearly indicates that the year is solar by counting 12.3 months in a year and not EXACTLY 12.
You will also never be able to answer how your arbitrary so-called Hajj from 8 to 13 of Dhu AlHijjah is timed using the crescents as per 2189.

No, I count exactly 12 and nothing to do with 365.242199 days in a year, impossible to have .242199 days.

Last year you were ranting about full moon illusions and having a big debate and now it's a feast to entice people to spend $2,000 for flight and hotel so they can get a free $5 meal listen to your nonsense. If you want to discuss hajj drop your contradictory hot moon and apologize to people for misleading them and accept the clear evidence of PERF 558 and history.

Please learn to read. I already answered this here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg218453#msg218453

The Arabic third person masculine pronoun "hu", consistently with the preceding "hu" refers back to "the abstinence"

O you who believe, the abstinence has been decreed for you like it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.
A few days and if any of you is ill or traveling, then a count of different days; and as for those who tolerate it (with difficulty), they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you abstain it is better for you if you knew.
A scorching full-moon, is when the great reading was descended; as a guide to the people and a clarification from the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever from you witnessed the full-moon, then he shall abstain it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then a count of different days. The god wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and complete the count, and glorify the god for what he has guided you, that you may be thankful.

It is normal in the Arabic of the great reading that pronouns can refer to something which was mentioned in a prior verse. For example, the pronoun "hiya" at the end of 7431 refers to "saqar" all the way back in 7426.

Wrong both cases?

7431 it (Qur?an) is not except a reminder to the human (illa thikra lilbashari)
690 it (Qur?an) is except a reminder to the creations altogether (illa thikra lilAAalameena)

It is not my problem that you are not intelligent enough to see that the words ?man shahid minkum? (whoever from you witnessed) imply that some from you will not witness. Otherwise, saying ?whoever from you? is completely redundant if everyone just fasts without witnessing anything.

No, you definitely have issues; not intelligent means you are calling me and others that disproved your hot moon fantasy stupid -- so everyone living in cloudy weather, stuck indoors, in prison or without a window to see the full-moon which pops for a moment at all hours and anyone with poor vision or the blind don?t fast.

Ever think it simply means those who make the ?intention? -- faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu?

Hope you abandon the Bad Moon http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYnySGM9dQA&

Peace upon you,

N

noble

Salam all,
It will be nice if we kept civil in our exchanges...
Now Ayman you have hit on something good with the solstice idea combined with the moon cycles.
Layth however argues that the month of Ramadan starts at the beginning of the winter Solstice, and he gave an interesting argument too.
You base your argument on breaking down the word Ramadan and rooting out the meaning scorching heat.
Well I have another more obvious meaning (as I come from an area where the arabic was very close to that of the arabs in the time of the prophet in North Africa, where the children of Hassan fled persecution from their "brethren" in Syria and the Jazeerah)-
Ramadan = Ashen (from Ramad = Ash)
like ashes - dull silver, a colour seen of the moon in winter.
So here we go one could combine this with Layth angle and put Ramadan at the end of December, from the winter solstice beginning.
Of course if I were to be cynical I would prefer this, as Ramadan in winter will be easier to fast , but joke aside, we need more evidence than just names.
But I am certain, something will turn up, Allah will get the truth out, but we must keep an open mind, and expect it, and this means stop acting like what we say is written in stone.
God bless.
Nabster

ayman

Peace NunHolidayPseudoEidRex,

Not counting is called skipping which you are doing with your 13th full moon called no-name.

You can only count 12 so you have to skip the 13th. You are also giving me too much credit since it is the god who made the moon cycle, including the full-moon, so it is not "mine".

To show your kill season drifts; kill them until June 23 in 2013 then kill them until July 20 in 2016.

It is ALWAYS in early summer, whether you like it or not. On the other hand, how about your arbitrary nonsense timing which drifts all over the place and even within the same year you have 3 months together and then Rajab floating all by itself? As usual, you can't answer.

Do animal mating habits drift by a lunar month every 3 years?

Animal mating and birthing habits are in line with the seasons. The timing for the restriction will always be from early summer to early fall. On the other hand, no animal gives birth in the summer and gives birth earlier by 11 days every year until about a dozen years later it gives birth in the winter per your nonsense.

Likewise all the verses drift in hot moon, as men who swear away their wives start fasting immediately not next full moon.
583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must fast two successive months before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poor

You are ignorantly mistranslating. The word "siyam" is a noun not a verb.

583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poor

No, I count exactly 12 and nothing to do with 365.242199 days in a year, impossible to have .242199 days.

No you count 12.3 in a 1712 solar year. As for the rest of your nonsense you are clearly lost and thus you can't answer

You arbitrarily POSTPONE one of your supposed restricted months (Rajab) for six months after the other 3.
Your restricted period moves around all over the year.
You will also never be able to answer how your arbitrary so-called Hajj from 8 to 13 of Dhu AlHijjah is timed using the crescents as per 2189.

You skip these facts because you know that your timing is nonsensical and arbitrary and you have no answer.

Last year you were ranting about full moon illusions and having a big debate and now it's a feast to entice people to spend $2,000 for flight and hotel so they can get a free $5 meal listen to your nonsense. If you want to discuss hajj drop your contradictory hot moon and apologize to people for misleading them and accept the clear evidence of PERF 558 and history.

You can't even read PERF 558. Please show where the word "hijri" occurs in PERF 558.

As for spending $2,000 for flight and hotel you don't need to spend that to go to a harvest feast where you witness benefits and remember the god on livestock and eat from it and feed the poor. Remember that the "house" as per 2226 is any place where no partners are set with the god and not the pagan circus in Mecca. As for nonsense, say this to yourself when you spend your $2,000 for flight and hotel so that you can dress in a towel and kiss and fondle a worthless stone set in a vagina-shaped enclosure and mindlessly spin around a worthless cube to satisfy your pagan fetishes.

Wrong both cases?
7431 it (Qur?an) is not except a reminder to the human (illa thikra lilbashari)
690 it (Qur?an) is except a reminder to the creations altogether (illa thikra lilAAalameena)

Go learn Arabic and more importantly logic. The word "quran" is masculine while " " in 7431 is feminine (referring to the feminine "saqar&quot while in 690 " " is masculine referring to the "quran". You are in way over your head and this entire discussion is clearly beyond your intellectual capacity if you can't even grasp those basic concepts. You are sounding more and more like ignorant 19ers who also confuse the feminine " " (on it) in 7430 as talking about the masculine "quran" and not the feminine "saqar". (not surprising since they too believe and blindly follow your manmade arbitrary traditional calendar by the way and they even made a Code for it as Progressive1993 can show you http//www.islamrevolution.org/thenightofdestiny.htm ).

No, you definitely have issues; not intelligent means you are calling me and others that disproved your hot moon fantasy stupid -- so everyone living in cloudy weather, stuck indoors, in prison or without a window to see the full-moon which pops for a moment at all hours and anyone with poor vision or the blind don?t fast.
Ever think it simply means those who make the ?intention? -- faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu?
Hope you abandon the Bad Moon http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYnySGM9dQA&

You are dreaming up your own scripture because 2185 doesn't say "those who make the intention". Instead of wasting your energy in dreaming up excuses for the 100% manmade and arbitrary traditional timing, try to follow the timing based 100% on the great reading. Others such as Layth and Anwar have reached a different conclusion than me based on the great reading. It doesn't matter if you also reach a different or even a wrong conclusion. Just base it 100% on the great reading and not on desperately trying to justify what you found your forefathers doing. As for "not intelligent", there is no passage in the great reading that says that those who try to understand based 100% on the great reading are not intelligent but there are many passages that describe as not intelligent those who blindly follow traditions like cattle.

It doesn't matter what conclusion you reach as long as your starting point is not trying to justify traditions. It is entirely your choice, stupid or intelligent?

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace theNabster,

It will be nice if we kept civil in our exchanges...

Thanks for the reminder. May the god give me patience.

Now Ayman you have hit on something good with the solstice idea combined with the moon cycles.

All good comes from the god. Many people contributed to this understanding and hit on good things. Even those who are against this understanding have inadvertently helped to solidify it and further discredit the traditional timing. The solstice idea is based on 1712.

Layth however argues that the month of Ramadan starts at the beginning of the winter Solstice, and he gave an interesting argument too.

I had posted a quick summary of the various theories some 70 pages ago

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg177608#msg177608

In there, I explain why I don't agree with Layth's timing. However, I am open to agree if he can bring more evidence that shows that his timing is more in line with the great reading.

You base your argument on breaking down the word Ramadan and rooting out the meaning scorching heat.
Well I have another more obvious meaning (as I come from an area where the arabic was very close to that of the arabs in the time of the prophet in North Africa, where the children of Hassan fled persecution from their "brethren" in Syria and the Jazeerah)-
Ramadan = Ashen (from Ramad = Ash)
like ashes - dull silver, a colour seen of the moon in winter.
So here we go one could combine this with Layth angle and put Ramadan at the end of December, from the winter solstice beginning.

Although they sound similar in English, the Arabic word "ramad" for ash is actually not the same as "ramaDh" for scorching. The first is spelled with a Dal and the second is spelled with a Dhad. They are two different roots and meanings.

Of course if I were to be cynical I would prefer this, as Ramadan in winter will be easier to fast ), but joke aside, we need more evidence than just names.

Exactly. Names are meaningless and anyone can arbitrarily call anything a certain name. The correct understanding is not arbitrary but connects everything such as "hajj", fasting, hunting restriction, etc. and automatically makes them fall into place. So far, only the "scorching full-moon" understanding does that.

But I am certain, something will turn up, Allah will get the truth out, but we must keep an open mind, and expect it, and this means stop acting like what we say is written in stone.

I agree. All we can do is follow the best understanding based 100% on the great reading. Right now the "scorching full-moon" understanding is the best available and it is based 100% on the great reading. If a better understanding that is also based 100% on the great reading arises in the future then I am all for it. But the best understanding will never come out from trying to justify the 100% arbitrary traditional calendar and fantacizing to be following the messenger while ignoring the message and following arbitrary manmade traditions.

Peace,

Ayman

noble

Bro Ayman, Salam,
and thank you for the distinction between ramad and ramadh.
my "arabic" has become very rusty as i rarely use it for apart from reading the Quran,
my two main other languages being french and english.
It is sad because as I said I was brought up among people who spoke pristine sahraoui
arabic (also known as sharif arabic in north africa).
Indeed I followed the development of your ideas since I joined free-minds since 2003.
In fact joining free-mind was as a result of a prayer to The God from me.
I have been very lucky though because I never felt an urge to study or get near the hadith.
To summarise, I think in my opinion you are very close to the correct answer regarding the positioning of Ramadan,
and the way the months fall into place when The Prophet realigned them onto a luni-solar calendar which
they were not following, however, since they (the Arab conspirators) pushed the birth of The Prophet a few decades
forward (2 or more), they argued the opposite and said that The Prophet actually re-instated a pure lunar calendar.
I do believe that the lunar calendar was instated after the death of the prophet as an act of reversal into idolatry (Moon God
connection), akin to the other pagan customs such as the Cube and black stone and pagan rituals in Makkah...
Makkah existed, but it certainly was not the Makkah of today, it was Petra (Petra is a roman name, it is a nabatean/arabic town, so what was its arabic name?), and it is referred to in the Quran.
Jerusalem contains the Ka'aba.
It all fits as part of the conspiracy, so for those who are worried about Lunar Ramadan being destroyed, we have no foundation to start with, apart from the Quran that is, so what are you on about?
May The God make us Peace Makers and Reasonable in our endeavours and not shirk from the Truth even if we think it is painful.

Samia

Ps In fact you have given yourself too much credit in believing that you can replace the Prophet.

Salaam farida )

In fact, Ayman is repeating the hadith of the prophet, which is They (the crescents) are but signs to mark fixed periods of time for (the affairs of) people, and for hajj. (source 2189). You are the one who refuses to acknowledge this very "sahih" hadith or discuss it. ;D
Refusing to discuss it because it's about hajj is no excuse, since the discussion is about a shahr of the "Islamic" calender, and the two issues are very much linked.
BTW, why didn't the quraan tell us the name of the month for hajj? And why, in this verse (2189) there's no mention of "Ramadan" if it has to do with "crescents"?

farida

Bro Ayman, Salam,
and thank you for the distinction between ramad and ramadh.
my "arabic" has become very rusty as i rarely use it for apart from reading the Quran,
my two main other languages being french and english.
It is sad because as I said I was brought up among people who spoke pristine sahraoui
arabic (also known as sharif arabic in north africa).
Indeed I followed the development of your ideas since I joined free-minds since 2003.
In fact joining free-mind was as a result of a prayer to The God from me.
I have been very lucky though because I never felt an urge to study or get near the hadith.
To summarise, I think in my opinion you are very close to the correct answer regarding the positioning of Ramadan,
and the way the months fall into place when The Prophet realigned them onto a luni-solar calendar which
they were not following, however, since they (the Arab conspirators) pushed the birth of The Prophet a few decades
forward (2 or more), they argued the opposite and said that The Prophet actually re-instated a pure lunar calendar.

Peace theNabster,

It's always good to see the original members of the free-minds coming to rescue Ayman. However we on this thread are not interested in your Arabic background, your upbringing, your prayers or your luck. We expect evidence that;

The Prophet realigned ?them? onto a luni-solar calendar
(the Arab conspirators) pushed the birth of The Prophet a few decades forward (2 or more),

Any study or article to backup would do, even like the one quickduck produced on behalf of Ayman in his Reply #1246 on August 28, 2009, 075503 PM ?page 84 )(reminded me of Bush coming up with his explanation for the? I wrack? war) I would love to make mincemeat out of likes of Ben Abrahamson and Joseph Katz voodoo

I do believe that the lunar calendar was instated after the death of the prophet as an act of reversal into idolatry (Moon God
connection), akin to the other pagan customs such as the Cube and black stone and pagan rituals in Makkah...
Makkah existed, but it certainly was not the Makkah of today, it was Petra (Petra is a roman name, it is a nabatean/arabic town, so what was its arabic name?), and it is referred to in the Quran.

I do believe = just your opinion

Jerusalem contains the Ka'aba
It all fits as part of the conspiracy, so for those who are worried about Lunar Ramadan being destroyed, we have no foundation to start with, apart from the Quran that is, so what are you on about

I have come across few studies which points to the political and financial interests involved in the conspiracy to shift Ka'aba away from Jerusalem and I earnestly pray for that day when I can go to Jerusalem for my Hajj without any hindrance. pr

May The God make us Peace Makers and Reasonable in our endeavours and not shirk from the Truth even if we think it is painful.?

handshake