Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Shahr is night or Moon ?
Your logic goes something like this little knowledge of an ignorant teachers who told the students "HEN means Darkness". One of those student was memorising this meaning at home. When his father heard ,father told the son that HEN is the name of a domestic bird.It is not DARKNESS.
Next day the child told the teacher that HEN does not mean Darkness but it is a domestic bird. Now teacher had his own Logic saying " When the hen spreads its feather ,is there not darkness below the feathers ?" The student said "yes it is".The teacher said "It means HEN is Darkness"
Use common sense.
Regardsnight = time period between sunset and sunrise
Moon = Earth's only natural satellite and the fifth largest satellite in the Solar System.
full moon = a lunar phase that occurs when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun.
Now , full moon = the most obvious phase of the moon = marker = shahr.so please stop going in circles ! we've already discussed this 111 pages ago. if you dont agree, it's your problem...
P.S No one in this thread has said nor understand that "shahr " is the "moon", except YOU. so whether you are lying or you cannot read !
Peace
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night = time period between sunset and sunrise
Moon = Earth's only natural satellite and the fifth largest satellite in the Solar System.
full moon = a lunar phase that occurs when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun.
Now , full moon = the most obvious phase of the moon = marker = shahr.so please stop going in circles ! we've already discussed this 111 pages ago. if you dont agree, it's your problem...
P.S No one in this thread has said nor understand that "shahr " is the "moon", except YOU. so whether you are lying or you cannot read !
Peace
What is Shahro Ramdhan then ? If Shar is not moon .
Regards -
Slow down a bit have you ever heard of the atomic clock? have you ever heard of the USA Navel Observatory?
How about GPS satelite or astronomy for that matter. One of the problems that we face in our community is our
backward thinking. THE POSITIONS OF THE CELESTIAL BODIES CAN BE CACULATED TO THE MINUTE. The new moon appeared at 602 am thursday the 20th of August therefore the first of Ramadan began friday the 21st. We have no problem using a newspaper or some other source to find out sunrise or sunset but we forget that the same applies to
all the heavenly bodies.Peace
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Peace all,
for those who wish to carry on following the sectarian way of fasting, be my guest.
Jesus came to bani israeel to ease some of the burden of the laws of the torah, and i believe so
Mohamed (extended to all of humanity).
You wish to make matters harder for yourself and Mankind, fine, your accounting is with Allah who, as
He said to the People of the Book "...do not exaggerate in your deen..."...
Now I guarantee, that if the Ulamaa of the Sunna and Ijmaa gathered in the Azhar mosque and decided
with the approval of the so called "muslim" governments particularly Saudi Arabia, and the blessing of some
powers that be (I won't cite these lest I risk being in trouble as this is a public forum), so if they decided that
let us change the calendar to a luni-solar one, and use the first full moon after the summer solstice as being the start
of the calendar, and all the rest of it, with the only reason that it is more convenient, you will align yourself like little sheep that you are, because you do not follow the truth, but what you are told, you do not use your brain, but use Tabari, Shafie, the other scholars and all the other Khalifs past's Brains who made the decisions for you in years past.
You are the cattle...
No amount of evidence will convince you, you do not follow one God, but many gods, the gods who manipulate your views... -
This is called "Lie has no memory"
Which phrase and word you and Ayman have been translating as "Full Scorching Moon"?
I am sure you will run and avoid as Ayman has been doing in certain other discussions.
RegardsLMAO rotfl
Follow quickduck's advice...
Read from page 1
To make it easy for you in case you are to lazy to read or cannot read at all 'shahr ramadan' has been translated as 'full moon of scorching heat' by Ayman...
sigh.. QS... nope
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Peace,
for those who wish to carry on following the sectarian way of fasting, be my guest.
What you are referring as the sectarian way of fasting is the right way of fasting which is in synch with the Qur?an. Your way of fasting is the same as Ayman?s way of fasting which is unquranic. What you have demonstrated is a blind following another blind.
?because you do not follow the truth, but what you are told, you do not use your brain, but use Tabari, Shafie, the other scholars and all the other Khalifs past's Brains who made the decisions for you in years past.
Your truth = Ayman?s truth = FALSEHOOD
Ayman tells you to jump, and you say how high ? miserable decision/judgment indeed.
Your brain = Ayman?s Brain = Empty vessel - less than a bird brain. Even a bird would detect this simple falsehood.
You use quickduck (quack, quack) and Ayman as your scholar ? They are making decision for you.
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From what I understand, if it says to abstain two 'shahr', we would abstain from the first full moon and end on the next full moon. The only question I have is that if shahr = full moon, why does the Qur'an mention the word consecutive to describe the two full moons in 492 and 584. If the word consecutive wasn't there, we would get the same meaning.
If shahr = month, then the word consecutive would make a difference because it is possible to fast two months that aren't consecutive. I don't see any way you can fast two full moons that aren't consecutive. I am just wondering because it is hard for me to accept that the word contribute to the meaning of these verses.
peace
Unfortunately, the English translation for the word "Muttatabeainne" as consective is not very accurate.
the root is Ta ba ain, which is "tabiae" the correct meaning of this root is , to follow , walking behind, succession of one to another,and when you have succession of one to another that can also mean to convey as consective.
If the translator has preconceived "shahareen" as two months, then he will always choose consective for Muttattabeainne, but it is actually conveying ,
Start Fasting after seeing a shahar, and follow it up to the next/second shahar.
This command is ensuring, That you start your fast only with the shahar using it as a marker, so that you do not make a mistake in counting, and then finish it up when you see the next shahar (full moon)
I hope it helps.
siki
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Peace,
Start Fasting after seeing a shahar, and follow it up to the next/second shahar.
This command is ensuring, That you start your fast only with the shahar using it as a marker, so that you do not make a mistake in counting, and then finish it up when you see the next shahar (full moon)
I hope it helps.
siki
Helps clearly see that all these verses are NOT applicable for blind men/women according to hot moon illusion...
2185 ?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it
2226 For those who swear away from their women, waiting four months?
2234 ?they wait with themselves four months, and ten
492 ?and who killed a believer mistakenly, so freeing a believing neck
?so who does not find, so fasting two months following each other584... so who did not find, so fasting two months following each other (continuous)
Peace all,
for those who wish to carry on following the sectarian way of fasting, be my guest.
Jesus came to bani israeel to ease some of the burden of the laws of the torah, and i believe so
Mohamed (extended to all of humanity).
You wish to make matters harder for yourself and Mankind, fine, your accounting is with Allah who, as
He said to the People of the Book "...do not exaggerate in your deen..."...
Now I guarantee, that if the Ulamaa of the Sunna and Ijmaa gathered in the Azhar mosque and decided
with the approval of the so called "muslim" governments particularly Saudi Arabia, and the blessing of some
powers that be (I won't cite these lest I risk being in trouble as this is a public forum), so if they decided that
let us change the calendar to a luni-solar one, and use the first full moon after the summer solstice as being the start
of the calendar, and all the rest of it, with the only reason that it is more convenient, you will align yourself like little sheep that you are, because you do not follow the truth, but what you are told, you do not use your brain, but use Tabari, Shafie, the other scholars and all the other Khalifs past's Brains who made the decisions for you in years past.
You are the cattle...
No amount of evidence will convince you, you do not follow one God, but many gods, the gods who manipulate your views...2855
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Peace,
Another commandment is to listen to what is said and follow what is best,
Peace,The precondition for this commandment is all involved in the discussion are believers. The big question is are you, Ayman, quickduck, and all who follow you are believers or not. If you are believers or even muslims then why don't you all accept the challenge i gave you. Because you know the outcome is a defeat for you. And this negates you all as believers.
So I think the approach was sound, and we have a good work done,
The approach is one of the worst in the history of mankind and work done is misleading. Of course it is good for satan but not for humans. You don't have clue as to what a good approach is.
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Peace,
What if my children read the site? We should always correct our mistakes publicly in the same way that we give our opinion publicly. As we are now people of the book we bear a heavy burden to reveal it to people. The god has surrounded us all and at the end we can only be saved by his mercy. May the god help Eid, Farida, Guest, Q_Student and help us all for we were once like them.
Yes, you will mislead your children. You try to cover-up your mistakes! This is clearly evident in your posts.
Just worry about your own neck. You need not worry about us. You really do need to worry about yourself.
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Peace guest,
You have no clue what you are talking about.
The appreciation of my islam and my state of belief is between me and Allah.
Unlike you I will not dare to make comments on yours.
You are indeed an extremist as you are quick to condemn.
Why do you think Allah most of the time refers to the Believers in the past? (Ya ayooha alladhina amanoo)
Why do you think Allah never refers to the Muslims in the past tense?
I do not agree with Ayman's lack of diplomacy towards you, but since you are singling me out, this is slandering
and I will not take it.
Beware, perchance I am a better Muslim and I am closer to Allah than you ever will be... -
Peace,
Your truth = Ayman?s truth = FALSEHOOD
Ayman tells you to jump, and you say how high ? miserable decision/judgment indeed.
Your brain = Ayman?s Brain = Empty vessel - less than a bird brain. Even a bird would detect this simple falsehood.
You use quickduck (quack, quack) and Ayman as your scholar ? They are making decision for you.
one off topic question How old are you ?
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Holy eff you guys...keep it up...actually, this thread will be locked in a few minutes...lol (actually I don't know)
Eid/Rex/Noob/whatever (I guess you're the devout anti-19 spam-a-whole-lot-of-numbers-using-apostatesofislam-website-and-forget-my-username-and/or-password-every-other-week inhales freeminder) I was being sarcastic when I said Ayman won, though this is basically his thread. No one should have posted after his long first posts which I'm sure not even half the people read (who the crap would?)
And LMAO @ guest saying "coran".....WTF??!?!?!?!? rotfl rotfl bravo
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Peace guest,
I am sorry to have offended you... you did escalate the "offense" though by bringing in Satan,
and non-muslim, non-believer accusations, a trait very typical of the violent extremists...
All prophets came and challenged the status quo.
Jesus was hated by the organised rabbinate (and his messengership cut short), and so were the other prophets before him with the organised religions of their day, why, because humans have a tendency to grab for themselves what Allah has bestowed
them.
So with nowadays Ulamah, they do not want us to understand the Quran on our own, they want us to use them
as filters, so they can manipulate us and keep the message to themselves to accommodate their patrons (guess who).
The Ulamah in Sunni Islam have replaced the Ayatollah in Shia and Priests in Christiandom and Rabbis in Judaism, and
Shamans in Witchcraft.
If you are not getting this, then I am sorry, you are in deep trouble...931 They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides All?h (by
obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without
being ordered by All?h), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while
they were commanded [in the Taur?t (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to
worship none but One Il?h (God - All?h) L? il?ha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but
He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with
Him)."but you are still a Muslim, just that you are in great danger of losing your faith, because you are putting your trust
in people who do not deserve it.
I for one, never ever will follow any human, including Ayman that you accuse me of.
Allah has blessed me with some intellect, the ability to read arabic, english and french, and a logical and rational mind,
and I trust the events in my life (I am mature enough), and the signs I have witnessed have given me enough experience to appreciate and be careful and measured in what I am talking about. -
Peace,
I am sorry to have offended you... you did escalate the "offense" though by bringing in Satan,
and non-muslim, non-believer accusations, a trait very typical of the violent extremists...You do not call this satanic ?you do not follow one God, but many gods, the gods who manipulate your views...?
Please tell me who follow many gods?
Your accusation is non conditional, whereas my accusation is conditional. And there is a big difference between them, if you only knew.
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Peace to all, I see messages of people are as the title of the subjet very HOT.
As we have seen we have the pro's and con's about Ayman's definition of when fasting as per Quran alone. Indeed it is an answer.
My question is for the cons
When do you fast by using Quran alone?
Do you need an extra source to define it (fasting month)?
How long do you fast by Quran alone?This is not meant to offense any point of view, but to go further in the debate.
best regards
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Peace guest,
What is more conditional than sticking to Allah's Quran?
and in any event we, like any other beings in this universe are submitted to Allah unconditionally,
humans and jinns having been endowed with free will are required by Allah as a test, a condition
they agreed to upon their creation, in exchange for this endowment, to acknowledge this willingly
mentally, with their hearts and in their deeds.
To help them out, Allah sends Messengers with Messages.
The current Message to the whole of US is the Quran, no if's, no but's , no extra's, no less, no more...
What we need to know and do is all contained in the Quran, fulfilling Allah's will and the Prophet's work
is being guided by the Quran.
Allah takes it upon Himself to explain it to us through Signs in our environment, i.e. it is a work in progress
until the Day of Judgment.
And this is what the Ayat in my Signature clearly says.
Now stop mocking about guest, if you want to have Yousuf Alquardawy or Ali Khameini decide for you fine by me,
but do not try and impose it on me, oki? -
Peace Eid,
Yes, I did change my mind on code 19 after figuring out that it was all random, could not find any consistency, you pointed out some like flipping verses and did a lot of my own work looked into thoroughly was finding multiples everywhere which was the main reason I came back with Holiday, Pseudo, and Eid to dispel all that nonsense which you can easily search my user names and see that most of my posts were to refute the nineteen obsessed...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3466;sa=showPosts
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3633;sa=showPosts
What you do Ayman when proven wrong instead of repenting and make your mistakes right, you deny clear evidence, attack the messengers that brought you the contradicting news about your hot moon; you cannot let go of your ego which is the same that infected nineteen cult. You belittle people, build a straw man/woman call them ignorant, say they babbling, lying, etc., all one has to do is search your posts and you even stoop low as in the above PM example not telling truth what actually transpired. Tell people about your PM to me and what you requested about my work/posts in the 19 forum.Yes you did good work on debunking Code 19 numerology. But after the PM you didn?t recant and correct what you posted in colors and great fanfare here on this sticky thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597669.msg190690#msg190690
Someone reading the above post and then finding no correction from you on the thread might be misguided.
I was proven wrong many times and I even proved myself wrong many times without anyone telling me. For example, right here on this thread, I have corrected my understanding of ?hajj? and there is a fierce debate (mild compared to this one) with Wakas who now holds my previous view.
It is the same thing here. I used to blindly believe the traditional timing exactly like you and then I believed in a fixed 30 day month as Anwar believes. I was defending that ?shahr? means 30 day month when a Sunni fellow pointed to me the fact that one of the meanings of ?shahr? is moon. Indeed, when I looked in the dictionary, I found the meaning of full-moon right there and this was the breakthrough. I didn?t tell the guy ?your #%&* moon? and dismissed it. This would be the ignorant ego-driven thing to do since the poor fellow didn?t travel back in time and conspire with the dictionary author against me. Knowledgeable people know not to dismiss something without researching. Letting the ego take over is a sign of ignorance. Same thing with the word ?ramadhan? and you making fun of the meaning of ?hot? or ?scorching? since if you took 1 minute to check a Classical Arabic dictionary, you would have seen that it is the PRIMARY meaning of the word. The god doesn?t choose his words haphazardly so you are in fact making fun of the god?s words.
As for saying that you are lying or saying irrelevant info, please look at your own words below
On this hot moon topic you are more lost, obsessed, and illogical than those infected with fitna of 7431.
Hopefully you'll explain to your children why people don't fast who live in cloudy weather or the blind.Your claim above is a demonstration of what I am talking about. Please copy and paste where I said ?people don't fast who live in cloudy weather or the blind?. What do you say about someone who consistently misrepresents what you said? You would say that he is either deliberately lying or has not understood what you said and is therefore giving irrelevant info. I would suggest that if you want to talk about what I said then just copy and paste it or put it in a quote.
Hopefully they'll see a picture of the globe that it is the same night in both Hemispheres and you won't call them ignorant or accuse them of babbling and lying when they ask you to explain why Qur'an was descended in a night not TWO Nights and TWO Ramadans.
- Ha.-Mim
2 By the manifest Book (this Qur'an) that makes things clear.
3 That We descended it (this Qur'an) down on a blessed night, that We are ever warning.
Please copy and paste where I accused you of lying or babbling when you said what you are saying above.
Do you know of any night where people suddenly stop killing each other and there is zero crime in the world? What is this night and how is this night peaceful then? You need to ponder on the signs of the god with the objective of learning, not with the objective of debunking me.
All best wishes to you and your children; may they grow up reading the Book, attain wisdom, and know the truth.
Same to you and your family and may the god have mercy on us all.
PS Here is something that I quickly put together and that I hope you would find beneficial
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599057.0
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
- Ha.-Mim