Hot/"ramadan" Answer

Q_student

Peace,
in my view, the western scholars constrain themselves to the realm of the Seen (athahir), whereas a true muslim Alim will endeavor to look at reality from a more extended view, including the Unseen (ghaib/baattin).
but if one wishes to use the word Alim loosely, there are levels of Ilm, from the Seen to the Unseen, and it is better to not be exclusive in the definitions, as the Quran does not seem to be, as in the Ayat "... above every one who who is endowed with 'Ilm, (Allah makes) one more Alim (knowledgeable) - and I dispute that this definition is only about Deen as the sectarian religious scholars want to force feed...
so yes, that also includes john, joshua, joaquim and michael, together with umar, reza, abu hanifa and ayman

Ayman? How ? a person who does not know abc of Quranic language ,you are considering him among Ulamaa.Look at our discussion of diptotes. Ask him what a diptote is and whether if the word Ramadhan is used as a diptote in the Quran or not.
He will run away as usual which is his very obvious methodology.
Regards

siki

DVD is 1995 technology. Therefore, Prophet Muhammad couldn?t have passed DVD to us. As usual, this is another of your illogical and contradictory statement.

DVD as an industry standard was announced in November 1995 and backed by major players in the CE, IT and movie industry. The first players appeared in Japan in November, 1996, followed by U.S. players in March, 1997. To produce DVD players, one needs to license a range of patents, owned by different companies. A number of these companies (Philips, Sony, Matsushita and Toshiba) have decided to license the necessary patents through one licensing agent. Philips has been selected to take up this administrative role. Matshusita, was the company mainly responsible for the development of DVD as it is today. Philips, one of the first companies to make CD players, was the first to make a DVD player. The invention of DVD cannot be attributed to one person or one company.

So, in such a scenario, when you dont have a footage of prophet Mohammad's life , let me say that, You have chosen to follow the word of mouth practices corrupted by scholars through 30 odd generations.

No wonder you are totally disregarding the clear evidences from the only incorruptible source left by our prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

So think again, Are you following the prophet, or Are you following scholars who have corrupted the practices over a period of time?

siki

ayman

Peace Guest,

I was responding to your false accusation. This is my God given right. People who are against God would most certainly take that right away from good people. Ayman, stop acting like a child, improve your behavior, and hold fast to God?s light.
The above quote is very interesting since you are equating repeating behavior to 5 year old child. Now, how many time have you repeated this quote of yours my dear Watson ?How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.?, 5 times, 10 times, or 20 times? The answer is numerous times. Therefore, by your own definition, you are a 5 years old child, who is repeating the same thing mindlessly. You have condemned yourself, ignorantly.
It will be very interesting to play chess with you because it would take only few moves to defeat you (checkmate) since you are incapable of thinking ahead even a single move (as demonstrated by your quote above). Ayman, truly you do make my day. Please keep it up. Thank you.

My question has to do directly with the issue which has over 2000 posts and over 34000 views. On the other hand you mindlessly repeating "I am a believer while you are not a believer, na na......na na na" is typical of spoiled undisciplined playground children. Even my little kids have been raised to be disciplined and mature enough and they don't act like you.

I have many scholars but I will just name one for you Prophet Muhammad. And you are proudly calling Prophet Muhammad and his follower morons. This is a despicable act of yours. Initially people used their innermost thought to accept Prophet Muhammad?s message as there were no written Quran to go around. Quran was not canonized yet. You and your followers must be very proud for labeling Prophet as a moron.

What you are saying is the same thing that Christians say about their prophet. They say ?Prophet Jesus said I am the son of god". You are in reality following satan and you are misguided. You are a liar just like your idiot scholars who attributed the false Sunna to the prophet. If you are not a liar then please quote where Prophet Mohammed said the following things, which your false manmade timing is based on

O believers, take the date of the Hijra to start the calendar.
O believers, sorry but forget about point #1 above and don't take the actual supposed date of the Hijra to start the calendar but instead start the calendar from 3 months prior to the Hijra.
O believers, the order of the months is Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-awwal, Rabi' al-thani, Jumada al-awwal, Jumada al-thani, Rajab, Sha'aban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah.
O believers ignore 95 because the restricted "months" are not consecutive but are the arbitrary Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab.
O believers ignore 2189 and perform your Hajj from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah.
O believers ignore 1712 and don?t use day and night to determine the number of years and instead use the moon alone, which is not mentioned at all in 1712.
O believers ignore the meaning of the word ?ramadhan? and take it as meaningless nonsense.
O believers ignore 936 and instead count ?months? forever and don?t stop at 12, thereby making every month in your calendar dependent on when month 1 started. However, trick people into thinking that you are counting 12 by recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names.

My dear Watson, we are not debating my theory here. We are debating you theory. Why don?t you have the capability to keep this in mind when you are writing and asking questions?

You have no answers to my questions and so of course you cowardly don?t want to debate your nonsensical theory about the traditional timing and want us to follow it blindly like cattle like you and your forefathers.

Please put you theory in the above format (i.e. 1. your marker, 2. when you start Ramadan, 3. how you count years, etc) and I will (God willing) disprove it again via contradiction. And to show contradiction in your theory is merely a child play.

Read post 1. It is now over post 2000 and almost 5 years later and no one has been able to disprove it. It is safe to say that someone with your demonstrated low level of knowledge and intelligence can never do it.

Peace,

Ayman

guest

So, in such a scenario, when you dont have a footage of prophet Mohammad's life , let me say that, You have chosen to follow the word of mouth practices corrupted by scholars through 30 odd generations.

How would you know the authenticity of the DVD i.e. how do you know that it hasen't been tampered with. This is also true of the classical dictionary. DVD = word of mouth. You are facing the same dilema. You need to think slowly and logically. All matter comes down to the innermost thought.

No wonder you are totally disregarding the clear evidences from the only incorruptible source left by our prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

Not at all. I am disregarding Ayman's twisted words and the definition of arabic dictionary. Thats all.

ayman

Peace Q_student,

Ayman? How ? a person who does not know abc of Quranic language ,you are considering him among Ulamaa.Look at our discussion of diptotes. Ask him what a diptote is and whether if the word Ramadhan is used as a diptote in the Quran or not.
He will run away as usual which is his very obvious methodology.
Regards

You sound a little jealous ) . Maybe you are still mad that I proved you to be a shameless blatant liar when you said that Thamuda didn't have a final Alif, which I am sure that you will now remember for the rest of your life whenever you read the occasional occurrences of Thamuda with an Alif in the great reading. Instead of being obsessed with me, why don't you try to answer the question

How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.

We will now see who will cowerdly run from answering the question like all the other blind sectarians defending the indefensible traditional calendar on this thread.

Peace,

Ayman

Q_student

Peace Q_student,

You sound a little jealous ) . Maybe you are still mad that I proved you to be a shameless blatant liar when you said that Thamuda didn't have a final Alif, which I am sure that you will now remember for the rest of your life whenever you read the occasional occurrences of Thamuda with an Alif in the great reading. Instead of being obsessed with me, why don't you try to answer the question

How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.

We will now see who will cowerdly run from answering the question like all the other blind sectarians defending the indefensible traditional calendar on this thread.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace
There is no confliction. Give the definition of Diptote and its signs to recognize it. And tell every one whether Ramadhan is used as Diptote in the Quran or not. Why are you running away. Prove your Classical Arabic efficiency. Why Reluctant as usual.

NABSTER !! please note he has evaded the diptote question. I foretold you.This is what I wanted to prove.

Regards

guest

Peace, Ayman,

My question has to do directly with the issue which has over 2000 posts and over 34000 views.

Finally, the real Ayman really stood up. His true motive is number of posts and views and NOT THE TRUTH.

What you are saying is the same thing that Christians say about their prophet. They say ?Prophet Jesus said I am the son of god".

I didn?t tell you to follow wicked people. I told you to follow believers like Prophet Muhammad. Use your innermost thoughts to decipher good from the bad. You are consistently using satanic view as an example. That is your style. No wonder why your theory so polluted.

Read post 1. It is now over post 2000 and almost 5 years later and no one has been able to disprove it. It is safe to say that someone with your demonstrated low level of knowledge and intelligence can never do it.

You are unable to comprehend even a simple matter. This happens when one is under the spill of satan. For your information, post 1 is not in the format I requested. I knew you aren?t going to do that because then you will expose your own falsehood. Go ahead provide your concept in the requested format and I will defeat it in no time. You are too slick to do it. I will disprove your so called Ramadan theory again and then send you to the BORG. And you what they do best.

Q_student

Peace, Ayman,

Finally, the real Ayman really stood up. His true motive is number of posts and views and NOT THE TRUTH.

I didn?t tell you to follow wicked people. I told you to follow believers like Prophet Muhammad. Use your innermost thoughts to decipher good from the bad. You are consistently using satanic view as an example. That is your style. No wonder why your theory so polluted.

You are unable to comprehend even a simple matter. This happens when one is under the spill of satan. For your information, post 1 is not in the format I requested. I knew you aren?t going to do that because then you will expose your own falsehood. Go ahead provide your concept in the requested format and I will defeat it in no time. You are too slick to do it. I will disprove your so called Ramadan theory again and then send you to the BORG. And you what they do best.

Peace Guest
You are just wasting your time. Look at this Quranic Principle .

(6)

Regards

noble

Peace Q_student
what are you on about with your diptotes and triptotes bs?
these are grammatical classifications made for convenience after the fact like for any and all languages...
you happen to read something somewhere and now you are a linguist?
who cares?
I am interested in the meanings of the words in the Quran, especially words as important as Ramadhan since we
are having an issue here!!!
Well if it makes you happy, in the classification, any word that ends with an (aliph, nun) is a diptote, so according to this
the word ramadhan is a diptote, and so is the word ramadan (ashes)... happy now whatever

and to quote the definition, a diptote is a word which cannot be conjugated...
now you will have to do better in your debunking homework...
speaking of which, you are just debunking for the sake of debunking, you do not care about the Truth, or Salvation,
you are just a spoilt self righteous brat, and I am sure that at the time of the Prophet if you were to exist, you would have been the most argumentative pest there would have been, and would have kept with the People of the Book if you were among them, citing how the Torah was much better at explaining what Muhammed was sent for...
So be careful who you point your finger at as being the kafir...

belH

this is what Ibn Kathir Tafsir says about it

Qatadah said,.''

Ibn Jarir reported that Abu Bakr As-Siddiq said
"

Do I smell Hadith's argument? rotfl You can't quite being Imam.

Peace Belal,

If you want constructive criticism then here is the most constructive thing anyone here ever gave you Don't start from the sectarian calendar and desperetly work backwards to justify it and instead start from a pure mind free of preconceptions.

An argument can start both ways...You can start with the Quran to evaluate an argument or you can start with the argument backwards and see if it violates the Quran--Inductive and Deductive Reasoning.

The Altimate truths (My assumptions) that I used to evaluate your, Suni, and Layth's arguments are

The Four Restricted Moon Cycles are consecutive
War Is Prohibited during these Moon Cycles
There was a Battle that Prophet Mohamed was preparing for During Heat Season (summer)

Because the above assumptions are the Ultimate sound truth, Then the FOUR RESTRICTED MOON CYCLES HAVE TO START FOUR MOON CYCLES BEFORE SUMMER.
Therefore, YOUR HYPOTHESES THAT RAMADAN IS IN SUMMER TIME IS NOT TRUE !

Accusing my argument to be based on Baseless assumption is far from truth.

When I used the same above true assumption to evaluate Layth's argument, the result is as I said before "Layth's argument is not violating the True and sound assumptions--The Quran.

Q_student

Do I smell Hadith's argument? rotfl You can't quite being Imam.

Peace
For this group every thing "ibne kathir " Ibne Jarir " are ok provided it may help them from some remote interpretation.
Such type of contradiction is a clear indication of lack of knowledge and arguement .
It happens when "A drowning man catches at a straw".
Regards

arista

Salam,

War Is Prohibited during these Moon Cycles
There was a Battle that Prophet Mohamed was preparing for During Heat Season (summer)

You still not getting the big picture.... There was a battle BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DEFEND THEMSELF... read again Al-Quran, The God never allowed aggression....

belH

Peace all,

Ayman, please allow me to evaluate another argument of yours

One of the factors that affects when present-day so-called Ramadan starts depends on when the start of the so-called Islamic calendar was set. For example, had its start been set for three years earlier, then this year the dating of Ramadan would have been a month earlier. As I mentioned above, we know from verifiable archeological evidence that the new calendar was established around 638 AD, long after the prophet's time. Several generations later, a story circulated that Omar decided after consultation with others to make the year of the "hijra" the first date of the new era. So the timing of Ramadan today is dependent not only on the sighting of the new crescent moon but on an arbitrary decision that was made many centuries ago.

If Omar started to change from Solar Calender to Lunar in year 638 AD is TRUE
And if the Prophet used to Fast During July Month and his companion up to year 637 AD before Omar Change the Calender (Scorching Moon) Is TRUE
Then Ramadan Month Should have been in July, 638AD, and then started to change gradually due to Omer Calender.

Now is the above hypotheses (the underlined part) is TRUE based on the un-disputable date fact?

The result is NO.
Monday 3 Rajab 17 A.H. falls on July 21, 638

Now, can you see why I do not agree with your hypotheses...Simply because your hypotheses can't be validated using sound and un-disputable data.

I hope you can understand my argument my position now...it is never been about you or suni or any one, but it is about my God given brain that I have to use in order to reach the Truth.

belH

Salam,

You still not getting the big picture.... There was a battle BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DEFEND THEMSELF... read again Al-Quran, The God never allowed aggression....

Peace,
The prophet was ordered to wait until the four restricted months ended before starting the war...hence, he was not under attack, which would allow him to defend his town even if were during the Restricted Moon Cycles.
However, he was ordered to start wars in order to free the Holly Land, and in some wars to help the oppressed people whom were tortured due to their religion. And in all these kind of wars, He was never a transgressor.

Now, with respect to the war that is mentioned in 981, it is clear that it was not an immanent war, which He was under attack.
When reading 983, clairly it shows that the Prophet was at war away from the town in which he lived.

So, if God sends you back to a group of them, and they ask your permission to come with you, then say You will not come with me ever; nor will you fight any enemy with me. You had accepted staying behind the first time, so stay with those who remain behind.
983

Peace

noble

There was a Battle that Prophet Mohamed was preparing for During Heat Season (summer)

How do you know it was during the summer? , there was a heat wave and famine during the whole year of the (btw never to happen)
Battle of Tabuq...
As I lived in the Sahara desert, I was born there, I know what I am talking about...

I have unignored you temporarily.

Tell your other slanderer mate that to be a student, he needs to be ready to learn, an attribute he seems to lack and so do you, and you are both very selective in the reading of posts, just groping at what dazzles you and running away building arguments (usually flawed at that) against it.

Also I was seduced by Layth proposal, but it loses out on several grounds...

ayman

Peace Arista,

You still not getting the big picture.... There was a battle BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DEFEND THEMSELF... read again Al-Quran, The God never allowed aggression....

Thank you for pointing out the obvious that should have been clear to anyone who has read the great reading. If you have been following this discussion then you probably know by now that Belal never read 2217 and is hopelessly unaware of the fact that, as you said, fighting is ALWAYS allowed in self-defense (even during the restriction period) and is NEVER allowed in agression.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Ayman, please allow me to evaluate another argument of yours
If Omar started to change from Solar Calender to Lunar in year 638 AD is TRUE
And if the Prophet used to Fast During July Month and his companion up to year 637 AD before Omar Change the Calender (Scorching Moon) Is TRUE
Then Ramadan Month Should have been in July, 638AD, and then started to change gradually due to Omer Calender.

Now is the above hypotheses (the underlined part) is TRUE based on the un-disputable date fact?
The result is NO.
Monday 3 Rajab 17 A.H. falls on July 21, 638
Now, can you see why I do not agree with your hypotheses...Simply because your hypotheses can't be validated using sound and un-disputable data.
I hope you can understand my argument my position now...it is never been about you or suni or any one, but it is about my God given brain that I have to use in order to reach the Truth.

You are forgetting that there was no month Rajab and no month called Ramadhan, etc. and no present order of the months prior to Umar or whoever made up the calendar. All these were invented sometime after the death of the prophet (who we don't know when he died). So everything that you are saying is just conjecture based on more conjecture.

Peace,

Ayman

siki

How would you know the authenticity of the DVD i.e. how do you know that it hasen't been tampered with. This is also true of the classical dictionary. DVD = word of mouth. You are facing the same dilema. You need to think slowly and logically. All matter comes down to the innermost thought.

Not at all. I am disregarding Ayman's twisted words and the definition of arabic dictionary. Thats all.

confused My dilema in your case is that , "On one side you have the intellect to question the authenticity of the footage recorded on a disk, but then you blindly follow the scholar's passed on practices in the name of Islam , in gross violation of Quran ???

'( I just cant understand above. hypno Will you help me out here , as to how you accomplish this?

wow So you are zipping through this life with the help of innermost thoughts tempt only, and Quran has nothing to do with guidance in your case hmm

siki

belH

You are forgetting that there was no month Rajab and no month called Ramadhan, etc. and no present order of the months prior to Umar or whoever made up the calendar. All these were invented sometime after the death of the prophet (who we don't know when he died). So everything that you are saying is just conjecture based on more conjecture.

Peace,

Ayman

Ayman, are you fooling us or yourself...Where did I assume that prior to 638 AD the Prophet used the Lunar Calender? In order to be fair when evaluating your hypotheses, I ignored this fact, which I believe is true.

as you said, fighting is ALWAYS allowed in self-defense (even during the restriction period) and is NEVER allowed in agression.

Again, your argument violates the ultimate truth of 95. And as I said before, the wars that were ordered by God are not aggressions but to help other societies whom lived under oppression.

How do you know it was during the summer? , there was a heat wave and famine during the whole year of the (btw never to happen)
Battle of Tabuq...

If it was not the Summer season, how would they have predicted that there will be a heat wave in the future? Even today, no one can predict the weather for the coming two months (which is about the time for preparing and traveling to the land in which the battle will take place) with all the technology we have.
It seems that you are giving up in being logic, and instead, you want to live in the state of mind when you were Imam.

Ayman and Nabster, you are running away from using your God Given Brain, and soon you will loose it. Unless you build your argument on a solid assumptions as I did, you are making fool of yourselves.

justice

Salam co-believers, my post here is just an advice, and it goes more to the proponents of Ramadhan=HOT month. Pls we should stop calling each other names simply because someone refuses to believe in what u feel is right or better, we know how people react to ideas they don't like or can't comprehend. Pls the proponents of this topic should be aware that they are like messengers who are trying to deliver the people from error and ignorance and so have to do that with wisdom. For it is far better to see someone in paradise because u were able to convey a message to his heart than seeing him in hell because you show him the truth and he refused to believe. And lastly the forgone sectarian scholars are gone and unaware of us and we are not liable to what they did, so why insulting them as morons and nonsense scholars? All these insult will not revart the corruption upon the religion. And moreover we are advice in the great reading not to insult the idols worshiped by the idolaters.