Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Ayman,
I have a problem
http//www.worldtravelguide.net/a/main/8f350f44-1a25-476a-9457-1c431cc20c8b/563a7dd0-d7f1-4216-8070-81dd4a9981d1/3e81277b-fe90-4d2d-a153-510e99409489.gif
As you can guess from the pic, the temperature here stays roughly the same throughout the year--but let's say, the hottest time in the year is around September (the driest is August). While the summer solstice for the Southern Hemisphere is in December. And i have yet to see which full moon is the brightest/clearest throughout the year (for 2010, local news said it (the brightest full moon) happened in January 30, Saturday night. Those in the northern hemisphere might have witnessed it in Friday night, January 29). That is, if this "perigee" full moon. Oh, and i found this Lunar Perigee and Apogee calculator. Seems that this "Lunar Perigee" has its own schedule (i.e., nothing annual).
Plus these are some info that i found contradicting your "scorching/orange/brightest full moon" explanation on the first page. I'm no astronomer, just a layman on this matter, but at least i can read between the lines...
The Moon at Perigee and Apogee
http//www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/figures/sidebyside.jpg
How Bright the Moonlight?
When the Moon is full near perigee, you'd expect it to be brighter than a full Moon near apogee and it is lots brighter; let's figure out how much. Since the Moon shines by reflecting sunlight (not very well?it reflects only about 7% of the light that strikes it, comparable to a lump of coal) the following two factors determine the intensity of moonlight at the Earth
- The intensity of sunlight striking the Moon.
- distance reflected light travels from the Moon to the Earth.
Since the difference between the minimum and maximum distance of the Moon, 50345 km, is an insignificant fraction of the average distance from the Sun to the Earth and Moon, 149597870 km, the intensity of sunlight at the Moon can be considered constant and ignored in this calculation. (Sunlight intensity at the Moon does vary, of course, due to the eccentricity of the Earth's orbit around the Sun, but we'll ignore that smaller annual effect here since we're concentrating on lunar perigee and apogee.)
The intensity of light varies as the inverse square of the distance between a light source and the observer, so taking the ratio between the perigee and apogee distances in the photographs above as typical, the distance at apogee was 1.1363 times the perigee distance, and hence the Moon's intensity at perigee was the square of this quantity, 1.2912 times brighter?about 30%. Using the long-term extremes plotted in the drawing in the previous section yields only a slightly greater intensity difference a distance variation of 1.1413, with the Moon shining 1.3026 times brighter at perigee.
Like the variation in angular size, few people ever notice this substantial difference in the intensity of moonlight at perigee and apogee because there's no absolute reference against which to compare them. If you could flick a switch and move the Moon back and forth between apogee and perigee, the difference would be obvious, though not as evident as you might expect from a 30% change in illumination due to the logarithmic response of the human eye. Another document on this site discusses the differences between the linear response of photographic film and electronic sensors as opposed to the human eye, and how computer image processing techniques can allow producing images that approximate visual perception.
source http//www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/moon_ap_per.html
And some bits of info which suggest that your "orange moon" theory needs some checking
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/78/Harvest_moon.jpg/300px-Harvest_moon.jpg
Times of appearance
The Harvest Moon comes soon before or soon after the autumnal equinox. It is simply the full moon closest to that equinox. About once every four years it occurs in October (in the northern hemisphere), depending on the cycles of the moon. Currently, the latest the Harvest Moon can occur is on October 7. Often, the Harvest Moon seems to be bigger or brighter or more colorful than other full moons. These effects are related to the seasonal tilt of the earth. The warm color of the moon shortly after it rises is caused by light from the moon passing through a greater amount of atmospheric particles than when the moon is overhead. The atmosphere scatters the bluish component of moonlight (which is really reflected white light from the sun), but allows the reddish component of the light to travel a straighter path to one's eyes. Hence all celestial bodies look reddish when they are low in the sky.
The apparent larger size is because the brain perceives a low-hanging moon to be larger than one that's high in the sky. This is known as a Moon Illusion and it can be seen with any full moon. It can also be seen with constellations; in other words, a constellation viewed low in the sky will appear bigger than when it is high in the sky.http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_moon
In short the hottest period of the year, the summer solstice, and the brightest/orange/scorching full moon, they don't mix so well -- i have trouble applying your proposition/theory into my situation. I was eager to put your timing theory into practice but now i'm just not sure.
Peace
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Peace San,
I have a problem
As you can guess from the pic, the temperature here stays roughly the same throughout the year--but let's say, the hottest time in the year is around September (the driest is August). While the summer solstice for the Southern Hemisphere is in December. And i have yet to see which full moon is the brightest/clearest throughout the year (for 2010, local news said it (the brightest full moon) happened in January 30, Saturday night. Those in the northern hemisphere might have witnessed it in Friday night, January 29). That is, if this "perigee" full moon. Oh, and i found this Lunar Perigee and Apogee calculator. Seems that this "Lunar Perigee" has its own schedule (i.e., nothing annual).
Plus these are some info that i found contradicting your "scorching/orange/brightest full moon" explanation on the first page. I'm no astronomer, just a layman on this matter, but at least i can read between the lines...
source http//www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/moon_ap_per.html
And some bits of info which suggest that your "orange moon" theory needs some checking
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_moon
In short the hottest period of the year, the summer solstice, and the brightest/orange/scorching full moon, they don't mix so well -- i have trouble applying your proposition/theory into my situation. I was eager to put your timing theory into practice but now i'm just not sure.What you are saying only applies for the regions around the equator, which are going to have relatively constant hot temperatures (as you can see from your graph). The term "ramadan" from the point of view of a pre-quranic Arab has to do with heat and red color. The link that you posted from Wiki explains that what gives the full-moon a reddish color is its low altitude. It doesn't say what causes the low altitude. As you may know, the sun and the moon are on opposite sides of the earth. So when the sun is high, the moon is low. Thus, the full-moon will always take the lowest path in the sky (and thus most reddish in color and this color lasting the longest) around the summer solstice (when the sun is at its highest).
Now as far as fasting, there are two ways to put this into practice
- Simply mark the fasting by the full-moon after the summer solstice in the southern or northern hemisphere depending on where you are (this is the approach I think is correct).
- This second approach was proposed by Truthseeker171. Since the event of the scorching full moon is associated with sending down the great reading, which happened in the northern hemisphere, then everyone fasts according to the timing of the northern hemisphere.
Keep in mind that even if you follow approach #2, this doesn't change when the restricted full-moons occur, which should be different between southern and northern hemispheres since the the wild life cycles will be different.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace
I do not agree with the second approach suggested by truthseeker171 approved by Aymen, due following reasons,
If God picked up the hottest and longest possible duration for us to fast, and He says , it is good for you only if you knew, it means that a certain duration or hardship is required for benefit, but when the people down under try and synchronise with the Northerners, they end up doing it in the most comfortable time of the year for a shortest possible time, and probably that wouldn't serve the purpose which Allah envisaged.
When Allah has clearly used the word Shahida (witness) for orange Moon, He means us to do it with our orange moon which would come in our scorching heat , giving us Hot and longest day .
Witnessing orange moon simply means " when you get your orange moon do it" Not when they get it .
siki
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Peace
I do not agree with the second approach suggested by truthseeker171 approved by Aymen, due following reasons,
If God picked up the hottest and longest possible duration for us to fast, and He says , it is good for you only if you knew, it means that a certain duration or hardship is required for benefit, but when the people down under try and synchronise with the Northerners, they end up doing it in the most comfortable time of the year for a shortest possible time, and probably that wouldn't serve the purpose which Allah envisaged.
When Allah has clearly used the word Shahida (witness) for orange Moon, He means us to do it with our orange moon which would come in our scorching heat , giving us Hot and longest day .
Witnessing orange moon simply means " when you get your orange moon do it" Not when they get it .
siki
Dear All,
Please visit www.aastana.com and download a book "Truth about Saum" by Dr. Qamaruzzaman. You may, may find some answers there!!
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Dear All,
Please visit www.aastana.com and download a book "Truth about Saum" by Dr. Qamaruzzaman. You may, may find some answers there!!
Selam mubashir55. Thanks for the link. The article makes a lot of sense and is well written. I am not an arabic speaker to varify his claims and will be hoping others with good arabic read it and let us know what they think. It is worth starting a thread on this article alone. May Allah guide us.
Peace
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Selam mubashir55. Thanks for the link. The article makes a lot of sense and is well written. I am not an arabic speaker to varify his claims and will be hoping others with good arabic read it and let us know what they think. It is worth starting a thread on this article alone. May Allah guide us.
Peace
It started off well but the rest... confused
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It started off well but the rest... confused
Selam
Yes I agree with you here. Seemed near the end to go off on a tangent with some very strong claims. It is for this reason I have asked for some people with good knowledge of arabic to read and maybe someone could start a thread on it to see if the claims are true or not.
Peace
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As you may know, the sun and the moon are on opposite sides of the earth.
This is not true.
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This is not true.
Tell this to NASA
Anytime the Moon is full the Sun and the Moon are on opposite sides of the Earth. If one is high in the sky, as the Sun will be near the beginning of summer, the other must be low.
From
http//science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2000/ast14jun_1/
Peace,
Ayman
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Yes, ONLY on the full moon.
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Salam,
There can only be one month of Ramadhan and that it is the winter month in which the Quran was revealed.
If you are not in the northern hemisphere (or on earth) then you cannot "witness" that month and the fast is not required of these believers.
Peace Bro
I read your article regarding Qadr/jesus conception/Ramadhan, and my opinion is that your winter Ramadhan postulate is not all convincing. I think Ayman's scorching full moon is the way to go.
siki
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Peace Siki,
I read your article regarding Qadr/jesus conception/Ramadhan, and my opinion is that your winter Ramadhan postulate is not all convincing. I think Ayman's scorching full moon is the way to go.
If I agreed with the scortching moon theory then I would not continue to post as I do on the winter timing P
Ramadhan from my analysis can only occur during the month of the longest night(s). The scortching moon theory is very shaky.
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Peace Layth,
If I agreed with the scortching moon theory then I would not continue to post as I do on the winter timing P
Ramadhan from my analysis can only occur during the month of the longest night(s). The scortching moon theory is very shaky.You would have a point if it wasn't for one minor inconvenience ), which is that in Arabic the word "ramadan" means "scorching heat". Perhaps according to your winter solstice theory it would have been not shaky if the god described it as /"baradan" (cold) instead of /"ramadan" (scorching heat). )
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Let's say someone woke up on an island like Hawaii or regardless if Anchorage Alaska observing sun and moon cycles.
Mauna Loa, Maui County, Hawaii (longitude W157.2, latitude N21.1)
10 October 2011 Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time
http//www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services/rs-one-day-usPhase of the Moon on 10 October 2011 waxing gibbous with 99% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.
Moonrise 519 p.m. (Full-moon before sunset repeats every 12 cycles)
Sunset 609 p.m.2185 full moon Ra-Miim-Dad = to be blasted by the sun. (both visible at same time)
http//oi53.tinypic.com/11s1hrp.jpg
Full moon is visible in the east while the sun is still visible in the west before sunset and cycle repeats every 12 cycles (e.g. next one is 28 September 2012) and no need for intercalation/adding a 13th every 3rd year which Qur'an prohibits or skipping count/ignoring..
The above seems plausible if not for existence of Archduke Rainer's Papyri Collection PERF 558
http//query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F40A12F83C5B10738DDDA10994DD405B8484F0D3
http//aleph18.onb.ac.at/F/IMQQS86YHSLXQQ4D4NABY25AGTLIUMBHDGXLI8CUFXQ2F1DMJB-51951?func=find-acc&acc_sequence=000011467
Grohmann worked out "30 Pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" to be 25th April, 643 CE. The date fits with two of the most commonly available conversion tables those of Caetani and of Freeman-Grenville.?? They make the last day of Jumada I equate with 26th April, 643 CE
21-Jul 439 PM New Moon
23-Jul Ramadan 1st Day
05-Aug Full moon 547 PM
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=643&n=214When calculating forward aligns with today's practice?
AH
22 0 0 643
23 354.36708 0.970224911 643.9702249
24 708.73416 1.940449822 644.9404498
.
.
.1431 499303.2157 1367.0469 2010.0469
1432 499657.5828 1368.017124 2011.017124CE AH First day Full moon
2011 1432 1 August 13 August 958 PMThis is Noon btw, had email/password issues and needed a new pseudo.
Peace
SEid -- Mr. Holiday -
Let's say someone woke up on an island like Hawaii or regardless if Anchorage Alaska observing sun and moon cycles.
Mauna Loa, Maui County, Hawaii (longitude W157.2, latitude N21.1)
10 October 2011 Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time
http//www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services/rs-one-day-usPhase of the Moon on 10 October 2011 waxing gibbous with 99% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.
Moonrise 519 p.m. (Full-moon before sunset repeats every 12 cycles)
Sunset 609 p.m.That's not it for the same holds true in prior and preceding months; might be a different pattern I've not had a chance to analyze throughly.
Here is PERF 558 which unless a forgery it clearly spells out that shahr was a lunar month at least in 643 CE...
http//oi52.tinypic.com/1zz5l4x.jpg
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Is it not possible that the verse where it says "black thread from the white thread" is a metaphorical reference towards truth becoming clear from falsehood. Further, eating and drinking may also mean consumption in a metaphorical sense.
In 1926, Mary has been eating and drinking while in a state of "fasting/sayam"
My personal issue with this is that how come "fasting" which is supposed to make us "righteous/mutaqeen", is used as a punishment by God throughout the Quran. There are many verses where it is said that we should fast based on a prohibited act.
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Peace Noon/Eid,
2185 full moon Ra-Miim-Dad = to be blasted by the sun. (both visible at same time)
Full moon is visible in the east while the sun is still visible in the west before sunset and cycle repeats every 12 cycles (e.g. next one is 28 September 2012) and no need for intercalation/adding a 13th every 3rd year which Qur'an prohibits or skipping count/ignoring..This is not how the god tells us to observe the full-moon
084.016
YUSUFALI So I do call to witness the ruddy glow of Sunset;
PICKTHAL Oh, I swear by the afterglow of sunset,
SHAKIR But nay! I swear by the sunset redness,
084.017
YUSUFALI The Night and its Homing;
PICKTHAL And by the night and all that it enshroudeth,
SHAKIR And the night and that which it drives on,
084.018
YUSUFALI And the Moon in her fullness
PICKTHAL And by the moon when she is at the full,
SHAKIR And the moon when it grows full,As per above here are the steps
Step 1 See the after glow of sunset
Step 2 See the night driving on from the opposite direction
Step 3 From that direction the symmetric full-moon will appear.So clearly the god tells us that the actual full-moon appears right after sunset.
The above seems plausible if not for existence of Archduke Rainer's Papyri Collection PERF 558
http//query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F40A12F83C5B10738DDDA10994DD405B8484F0D3
http//aleph18.onb.ac.at/F/IMQQS86YHSLXQQ4D4NABY25AGTLIUMBHDGXLI8CUFXQ2F1DMJB-51951?func=find-acc&acc_sequence=000011467
Grohmann worked out "30 Pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" to be 25th April, 643 CE. The date fits with two of the most commonly available conversion tables those of Caetani and of Freeman-Grenville.?? They make the last day of Jumada I equate with 26th April, 643 CE
21-Jul 439 PM New Moon
23-Jul Ramadan 1st Day
05-Aug Full moon 547 PM
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=643&n=214
When calculating forward aligns with today's practice?
AH
22 0 0 643
23 354.36708 0.970224911 643.9702249
24 708.73416 1.940449822 644.9404498
.
1431 499303.2157 1367.0469 2010.0469
1432 499657.5828 1368.017124 2011.017124
CE AH First day Full moon
2011 1432 1 August 13 August 958 PMIf you notice PERF558 doesn?t mention ?Hijri?. It just says ?the year 22?. So we don?t know what this calendar dating is based on. So we don?t know how many years had passed between the prophet?s death and the invention of the calendar or even the unknown event that it was based on.
Here is what we also know from manuscripts about Umar I the alleged inventor of the calendar (From the writings of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai around 680CE)
The second king who arises from Ishmael is a lover of Israel. He restores their breaches and the breaches of the Temple. He hews Mount Moriah, makes it level and builds a ?hishtahawaya? (temple) there on the Temple rock, as it is said "Your nest is set in the rock."
According to this physical evidence Umar I was a Zionist who championed the primary Zionist cause of restoring the temple. This is how his actions and their motivations should be viewed. The Hijri calendar uses the crescent like the Jewish calendar. So the months would start and end at the same time. However, for the Jews the intercalation is the function of the Rabbinical authority and the Jews were not going to give up this authority to the state. Umar ensured this by doing away with intercalation for the state calendar.
Here is PERF 558 which unless a forgery it clearly spells out that shahr was a lunar month at least in 643 CE...
We know that in pre-Islamic times the word used for ?month? is ?yarkh? or ?warkh?
552CE
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean.htm
Month = ?yarkh?, Month name = Zu A'allan326CE
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/namarah.html
Month = ?warkh?, Month name = Kaslul.267CE
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/raqush.htm
Month = ?yarkh?, Month name = TammouzSo we know that in PERF558 this is a post-Islamic meaning different to the pre-Islamic one (the great reading should be understood as a pre-Islamic text).
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Layth,
You would have a point if it wasn't for one minor inconvenience ), which is that in Arabic the word "ramadan" means "scorching heat". Perhaps according to your winter solstice theory it would have been not shaky if the god described it as /"baradan" (cold) instead of /"ramadan" (scorching heat). )
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
The word "Ramadhaan " cannot be translated because it is a "Proper noun" used by the Qurank. As a matter of principle proper nouns are never translated Keep this in mind.
