Hot/"ramadan" Answer
-
Peace Birdy,
I know hardly any Arabic, but what little I do know inspired me to fast for the duration of the full moon following the longest day. This is what I did last year. I shall be doing it again this yer on the 23rd June, God willing.
I would like to remind folk that God clearly states he doesn't want to make life difficult. Well, where I come from, this year, Muslims wii find life difficult trying to fast until nearly 11pm at night. Whatever, that cannot be right.
-
Peace dawngorgeous and all, sun
thank you for respond/s.
I think the same, as you've said, that some people have to fast long days and additionaly in summer when is very hot in some countries.
According to above, In my understanding I think the fasting time should be in the time of equinox and that is spring or autmn but it needs also full moon. The other indikation are 4 months that are restricted but for hunting of wild animals. if we take in considaration that in those 4 months the wild bear or are in the state of reproduction, then it is mostly in the rain time. and those are spring or autmn. Autmn is more appropiate because the months after are still better for hunting because they are not so hot as the months after spring( summer months).
Besides of my statment in this post I've thought why couldn't muslims fast each month 3 days by full moon but only if in those 4 restricted month we are allowed to fast, or the 4 months aren't in context in Koran with fasting anyway- I fall to see any context- if so, then all of us could fast in the same time and one part of us will have sometimes long days to fast and the others short days, also colder and hotter days and that s fair. I don't understand the verse that we have to complete the fast of 10 days, only few days- full moon appears for 1 day and to complete to few days means for me 3 days.
God Mercifully knows better.May God guide us to the stright path.
-
Peace All,
When I said 'that can't be right' in my last post, I was making reference to those Muslims who would be fasting for a whole month - especially until 11 pm at night, eat, then up again at 2am. They'll still be full from the night feast!
-
Peace,
I would say fast from when the sun rises up visibly in the sky until it disappears visibly, even if it never gets completely dark. It is the rule I applied in Sweden during Ramadan because I cannot believe we have to stop fasting and eating at 11 and then the only other opportunity is to have a meal right before 2 in the night.
With the above rule I think it becomes like 9-10pm to 3-4am time span to do whatever needs to be done until the fasting is on again.
I know how tough it is to work full-time on a demanding job and fast until very late in the night and then go up on more time after a few hours to topfill the stomach. The northern countries have a quite hard time during the fasting nights.
At least it is not the fast Youssef here on the forum undertook
God bless you
-
These days sunset is at near 10pm (daylight saving time).... but does it ever get really dark? No, dusk and dawn light merges... so the typical style of eating only when there is no white thread in the sky, just won't work. So what's going on here? Is the timing of fasting misplaced in the cycle of the solar year, or are there even greater misunderstandings going on? I find it hard to believe that God would instruct people to fast during certain times that are not even applicable at certain places during certain times of the year. Something is wrong here....
-
These days sunset is at near 10pm (daylight saving time).... but does it ever get really dark? No, dusk and dawn light merges... so the typical style of eating only when there is no white thread in the sky, just won't work. So what's going on here? Is the timing of fasting misplaced in the cycle of the solar year, or are there even greater misunderstandings going on? I find it hard to believe that God would instruct people to fast during certain times that are not even applicable at certain places during certain times of the year. Something is wrong here....
This is why you need Hadith. Without Hadith Quran will never make sense.
According to Hadith if there is a situation where there is continuous daylight or some other odd situation then you make an estimation or calculation for the timings of your acts of worship.
That means if you live in a place where there is continuous daylight or darkness, then you calculate using the township which is nearest to you which doesn't have that problem.
-
Thanks for your respons.
Right, I understand, and I've been following the same method, HOWEVER, let's be very clear here. What hadith does, is to patch up an unclear situation with a rule of exception. This doesn't address the issue at all. Actually, if we need hadith because the quran is not clear, then this is the same as saying that the quran is not complete, and hadith will complete it where needed. But again, this is not the situation. The real issue is not that information is lacking in the quran, which is then solved by information from hadith. The real issue is that we may have the incorrect understanding of the quran, and hence our understanding doesn't fit with reality/nature. See, these are two totally different situations. We must not confuse them and mix'em up.
Just to highlight again
-
The problem according to hadith proponents "The quran contains instructions, but further information from hadith is needed in order to make useful sense out of it all."
-
The problem according to me "The quran contains instructions that are exhaustive, complete and accurate, but our understanding is lacking which becomes apparent when it doesn't fit nature."
The key point to understand is that our current understanding 'clashes' with nature/reality (because it is faulty)... AND that hadith does NOT solve this clash... it just ignores it and gives you a way around it while the initial clash IS STILL THERE. So hadith did NOT solve the issue, nor did it clarify it by supplying missing information. This is important to understand. Hadith doesn't do what it claims to do. It just invents another instruction, which doesn't add any clarity or explanation to the quran... rather it ignores the quran and leads away from it!
So, we don't need to do symptom treatment by adding a layer of hadith on our faulty understanding, to get even further away from the quran... rather we need to make sure we have an accurate understanding in the first place. Actually, this is at one level a matter of faith.... of personal attitude and view of God. We simply have to choose whether we believe that the quran is accurate and complete, or not.
That's how I see it. And just because there is something I may not understand right now, it would be foolish by me to make up an artificial understanding to fill the void. Such an attitude just leads further away from truth.
Peace
-
-
Thanks for your respons.
Right, I understand, and I've been following the same method, HOWEVER, let's be very clear here. What hadith does, is to patch up an unclear situation with a rule of exception. This doesn't address the issue at all. Actually, if we need hadith because the quran is not clear, then this is the same as saying that the quran is not complete, and hadith will complete it where needed. But again, this is not the situation. The real issue is not that information is lacking in the quran, which is then solved by information from hadith. The real issue is that we may have the incorrect understanding of the quran, and hence our understanding doesn't fit with reality/nature. See, these are two totally different situations. We must not confuse them and mix'em up.
Just to highlight again
-
The problem according to hadith proponents "The quran contains instructions, but further information from hadith is needed in order to make useful sense out of it all."
-
The problem according to me "The quran contains instructions that are exhaustive, complete and accurate, but our understanding is lacking which becomes apparent when it doesn't fit nature."
The key point to understand is that our current understanding 'clashes' with nature/reality (because it is faulty)... AND that hadith does NOT solve this clash... it just ignores it and gives you a way around it while the initial clash IS STILL THERE. So hadith did NOT solve the issue, nor did it clarify it by supplying missing information. This is important to understand. Hadith doesn't do what it claims to do. It just invents another instruction, which doesn't add any clarity or explanation to the quran... rather it ignores the quran and leads away from it!
So, we don't need to do symptom treatment by adding a layer of hadith on our faulty understanding, to get even further away from the quran... rather we need to make sure we have an accurate understanding in the first place. Actually, this is at one level a matter of faith.... of personal attitude and view of God. We simply have to choose whether we believe that the quran is accurate and complete, or not.
That's how I see it. And just because there is something I may not understand right now, it would be foolish by me to make up an artificial understanding to fill the void. Such an attitude just leads further away from truth.
Peace
Salaamun alayka,
very nice bravo
Salaam,
Bender -
-
You say the real problem is that we are not understanding the Quran properly. Are you saying for 1400 years no one has even understood the Quran, which claims to be a clear book which contains no doubt and a guide for righteous??
I think your dilemma is quite simple. You are on one hand claiming Quran is an exhaustive book, fully detailed, not needing any kind of supplemental text or explanation, but then on the other hand you cant even figure out such a basic thing like how to observe a fast based only the info you got from Quran.
Time for you Quranists to get real and stop deluding yourselves.
-
Peace,
Need no hadith for the intention and performance of the fasting for a month. It is pretty clear what one should do. If you miss or day or two unintentionally because of your shortcomings it is fine as long as you fast for the duration of a month. Intention at heart is most important.
God bless you
-
You say the real problem is that we are not understanding the Quran properly. Are you saying for 1400 years no one has even understood the Quran, which claims to be a clear book which contains no doubt and a guide for righteous??
I say that there are some things in the quran we don't understand properly. I DO NOT say that there is no-one with the right understanding, and I DO NOT say that there has never been a correct understanding. But I wouldn't trust the majority, as also advised in the quran. The majority and main stream populace usually base its understanding on tradition and habit, and not on reason.
I believe that God guides us individually to the quran and wisdom in general. If we are not "connected" enough to God, i.e. pure of heart, we won't be blessed with insight into truth.
Also, one could say similar things about Christians.... how is it possible that they are wrong when they have been saying the same thing for longer than the quran has been around? Let's not appeal to time or numbers. Quantity will not do it if the quality is wrong.
I think your dilemma is quite simple. You are on one hand claiming Quran is an exhaustive book, fully detailed, not needing any kind of supplemental text or explanation, but then on the other hand you cant even figure out such a basic thing like how to observe a fast based only the info you got from Quran.
Time for you Quranists to get real and stop deluding yourselves.
That's the dilemma, you're right. But I'd rather admit lacking in certain understanding, and pray for guidance, instead of being over confident, ignoring the signs of discrepancy, and adopt instruction from other than God.
How about the cutting hands and smacking corpses with meat? People STILL uphold this as truth, even though it by simple logic and analysis of the quranic text can be explained in a wise, productive and sane way. So apparently there are plenty of things that already have been explained from the quran itself, while the insane version is still upheld by the majority.
-
How about the cutting hands and smacking corpses with meat? People STILL uphold this as truth, even though it by simple logic and analysis of the quranic text can be explained in a wise, productive and sane way. So apparently there are plenty of things that already have been explained from the quran itself, while the insane version is still upheld by the majority.
What are you trying to say? Cutting off the hands of the thief is not Quranic?
-
In addition to the points made by Zulf
I would add that the Quran constantly refers to human nature and the way in which mankind is very argumentative, ungrateful and that will effect the way the majority of people deal with the Quran. Take a look at the People of the Book and what they did. It should be evident what will then happen with guidance, it won't get fair treatment - it will just be something that people can use for power, control, glory etc. This is a corrupt thing to do and people know if they are trying to "use" the Quran or understand the Quran. But they never want to rid the current cultural customs. That can still be the case for some Quran only as well, but considering different interpretations is part of trying to understand the Quran.
-
Take out your cameras and post your pictures here.
https//lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dIzcwc_PPWc/UccTz2HsipI/AAAAAAAAAnM/OSxkm448CcE/w450-h300-no/image.jpeg
Not of your camera ofcourse but of the full moon. Make sure you don't miss it! At sunset or shortly thereafter is the ideal moment.
-
Not of your camera ofcourse but of the full moon. Make sure you don't miss it! At sunset or shortly thereafter is the ideal moment.
rotfl rotfl
-
Israfeel,
I'm afraid you are way off the mark. Years behind. The true understanding of the cutting of the hand was understood and accepted when the submitters first came to the fore years ago. We have moved on. I am afraid the situation is that Koran Aloners understand what you are saying, but unfortunately, what Koran Aloners are saying has absolutely no meaning to you. it is like a foreign language to you. It reminds me of what God points out in the Koran, that the blind cannot see and the deaf cannot hear. I am not mocking you, I am simply stating a fact - this is written in the Koran and you cannot argue with it, unless of course you are challenging God.
Dawn.
-
Peace.
I'm afraid we won't be able to witness the full moon over here. Very cloudy in Belgium and the Netherlands. We hope for the best. For those of you who are lucky enough to witness it http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg327565#msg327565
-
Peace Abdelilah.
Yes, very cloudy indeed over here at the border triangle Germany, Belgium, Netherlands. Nevertheless I am going to position myself on top of a nice hill and look out for the full moon rising. In a few minutes it is time to set forth. yay
Best wishes,
Timur
-
Beautiful moon over here in the Middle East.