Hot/"ramadan" Answer
-
If God tells us "that he revealed Quran in the night of shahrr" ( Full moon) and that particular Shahrr (1 out 12) was the Ramadhan one (Red moon) , so fast for days who so ever witnesses it,,,
we will start calling that particular shahrr, as the Ramadhan one
Over a period of time, we will name that particular month as "Ramadhan" and its original meaning would be lost, And all what would come down to us would be a "month of Ramadhan". Which , when started rotating, completely lost its Marker(Red moon) and hence its original meaning bite dust.
peace
siki -
Peace All,
Is FULL MOON called badr or shahr in Arabic? Can somebody explain the difference please?
Moon has different stages. The cresent stages , and the Badr stages, when it is like a cresent (6-8 days) wanning or waxing, it could be called Ahillat(cresent) then we have a roundish figure for about 6-8 days in total (The badar stages) Out of these Badars, One is Full moon known as Shahrr, which could serve as marker for month count.(GOd's choice)
A very logical choice indeed, we cant miss it , it is available for Maximum possible time , and is The brightest.
And now, go find The cresent moon , specially the one which is running after the sun and vanishes almost along the sun ???
Like every year, last night, there has been a mess up here in pakistan for locating this so called cresent moon, The Met had declared, "As the moon is on zero deggree, so there is absouletly no chance of its sighting"
The Four comitties consisting of dozens of Mulllahs sitting on top of towers with telescopes , declared officially at 8 PM that no moon sighting, fast tomorrow ,hence people went for salat ul Taraweeh, came back and slept.
At 2315 hrs we were woken up by the news that the moon has been sighted by some one , hence the Govt has declared Eid tomorrow, The Govt, probably did it under pressure from the Fact , "That how can there be a difference of two days between Saudi Eid and pakistani Eid?
I picked up my sleeping kids, threw them in the car, and left for my family home (in another town) at 1 AM, and reached at dawn.
The sleeping shopkeepers rushed to their shops and opened them for this so called "Chand Raat"(Moon night) where as this "Chand Raat" should be the Full bright moon night. Not the NO Chand Raat
What a total nonsense this is. If we don't have the ability to decipher GOd's words with logic and reason , sure we will be messed up.
peacesiki
-
Anti Ayman camp! I wish you peace and tranquality.
How do you witness a man made arbitrary month? Do you think God used this word (witness), "Just casually" I think you guys have stayed in the forum long enough to witness , "That His choice of words is absoutely precise and Delibrate".
The wisdom behind each usage, "sometimes we know, and some times we find" ! But is NEVER, NEVER CASUAL, and when we dont find (wisdom) "please keep striving to find" , because his words are balanced to perfection.
Evidences are just too many, "Come on friends, If you still stick with the traditonal fast, I think your logic circuit is either shut down or due for a major Overhaul.
siki
-
Dear Ayman
The more I dig this subject, the more proofs pop out in fovour of your thinking line . But remember , i am not with you , I am with the truth, and looking for a chance to hop over to otherside the moment I get an undisputable proof OTHERWISE.
If you recall , all these years , I never approved , nor opposed your Red moon thinking, because it deserved a fair chance for verification. On the other hand, when , like all/any of us mortals, you fell , and illogically defended your logic on differnt subjects, I pounded you.
But so for , I think , you pulled this one Right, and hence deserve pat on your back for the hard work and perseverence.
Two thumbs up for Dr Ayman handshake
siki
-
Peace all,
The more I dig this subject, the more proofs pop out in fovour of your thinking line . But remember , i am not with you , I am with the truth, and looking for a chance to hop over to otherside the moment I get an undisputable proof OTHERWISE.
These are also my exact sentiments and why I am still following this thread as long as there are comments. I continue to see more and more evidence that 'shahr' is 'full moon'.
To anwar,
Quote
If shahr means "30 day month", then how can we witness such an 30-day month as per 2185?The discussion on the meaning of shahida was fruitless to me. The word can be used to mean to vouch for, to experience, to witness, to see etc. etc. We are all witnessing September right now and we are going to witness October tomorrow. What does that mean in the context of 2185? If you are going to be alive and able for 30 days during your summer to fast, then fast those 30 days. There is no need to try to make shahida witness in a way that we only witness a day when we complete it. That is just not good sense. You witness the day as it begins. You can vouch for it as well if you know of it beforehand, and you can witness to its passing and your having lived through it afterwards. But to make shahida a witnessing that is something magical, special or something that can only be done after the minute, hour or day has passed is an incorrect limitation of the word."
I'm only replying because I was part of that discussion and I would like to ask, how do you ignore that the reading CLEARLY uses the verb 'shaheda' in different ways? I gave those examples. How can that be fruitless? I know that arranging similar verses is KEY to trying to properly understand how the god is using certain terminology and not that I just put what I want to be there, that would not be a just investigation of the truth would it? To me, this is one of the big supports for 'full moon' and if this is considered a non-issue by those who say month and they don't care how the reading uses this verb, I simply cannot accept that it doesn't matter and it shows me the weakness of this stance.
Another point that came to mind, it may have been mentioned before, is how do we reconcile in 2184 the god begins with "ayyaam ma'duudaat" and the interpretation of 'month? There was a point about just the form of the word ma'duudaat provides a clue since this form is used for representing a count from 3 - 10. Numbers over 10 until 20 and from 20 to 99 and so on use different forms when using them in expressions. The duals have their own form. I love the preciseness of arabic. Check this out for yourself in the great reading. Can we say that the arabic here doesn't matter, that the arabic grammarians know arabic better than the Creator? I'd like honest answers since I am keeping the door open.
Umm Tariq
-
quote by farida
Salaam,Working toward taqwah fasting for 30 days.
Tired, worn out, yet happy.
Time to reflect what we achieved and celebrate.
A special greetings to those who upheld the true fast;D peace ;D
! Ever wonder, why should God render us useless for 1/12th of our lifetime?
If you have ever been in any islamic country, specially in an arabian state during the so called month of Ramadhan, you would know it.
Cycling for 10 days in extreme sun weather during a longest possible day , should be good enough.
hmm Just my thoughts.siki
-
;D
-
quote by farida
Salaam,Working toward taqwah fasting for 30 days.
Tired, worn out, yet happy.
Time to reflect what we achieved and celebrate.
A special greetings to those who upheld the true fast! Ever wonder, why should God render us useless for 1/12th of our lifetime?
If you have ever been in any islamic country, specially in an arabian state during the so called month of Ramadhan, you would know it.
Cycling for 10 days in extreme sun weather during a longest possible day , should be good enough.
hmm Just my thoughts.siki
Month of Ramadan is a Festive season here the nights are full of enjoyment try if you don?t trust me
eat -
Month of Ramadan is a Festive season here the nights are full of enjoyment try if you don?t trust me
eatYa right, eat and drink eat the whole night, literally as per his commandment in 2-185 and then sleep it off during the day.
pr Thanks to Allah for his gift of black gold, Me worry , Never, enjoy till the stocks last, or captured by Americans, in that case I/we shall ride back to deserts, long live our dear old friends camels.
siki
-
Umm Tariq,
I'm only replying because I was part of that discussion and I would like to ask, how do you ignore that the reading CLEARLY uses the verb 'shaheda' in different ways? I gave those examples. How can that be fruitless? I know that arranging similar verses is KEY to trying to properly understand how the god is using certain terminology and not that I just put what I want to be there, that would not be a just investigation of the truth would it? To me, this is one of the big supports for 'full moon' and if this is considered a non-issue by those who say month and they don't care how the reading uses this verb, I simply cannot accept that it doesn't matter and it shows me the weakness of this stance.
I take this stance because I do not believe that the Quran defines words. It uses Arabic words in the same ways that can be used outside of the context of the Quran. So examples on how the Quran defines the verb shahida or any other verb or noun from its usage is futile and a mute methodology to me because the Quran uses its words and verbs in the same way the Classical Arabic language (represented by pre-Quranic and early Islamic Arab society) can use them, not the other way around. The comment was not meant to offend you, but definitions of words based solely on interpretations of Quranic usages of those words is fraught with holes, potential problems and room for abuse. I only need remind of the Salat as connection or method theories to prove my point. The Quran is not a dictionary.
Another point that came to mind, it may have been mentioned before, is how do we reconcile in 2184 the god begins with "ayyaam ma'duudaat" and the interpretation of 'month? There was a point about just the form of the word ma'duudaat provides a clue since this form is used for representing a count from 3 - 10. Numbers over 10 until 20 and from 20 to 99 and so on use different forms when using them in expressions. The duals have their own form. I love the preciseness of arabic. Check this out for yourself in the great reading. Can we say that the arabic here doesn't matter, that the arabic grammarians know arabic better than the Creator? I'd like honest answers since I am keeping the door open.
I dealt with the specifics of ma3dood/ma3doodah and the grammar of ma3doodaat. That definition of 3-10 was ONE possiblity of the meaning of the word and was not the deciding definition of the word. I showed in the very Arabic quoted here, by grace of Samia, from lisan al-3arab of how in the same parenthesis ma3doodaat had the general meanings of counted and numbered as well as the specific meaning of few. And I showed other examples of Classical Arabic grammar via the Quran where the feminine plural is used for plural inanimate objects, and specifically days. There is no preference for one form of ma3dood or another. These forms are grammatically stable and equal to the form numbered in English. In some cases it means few and in others it just means limited. I could tell someone that their days are numbered and be saying that they will die soon or I can be saying that they will die eventually as all our numbers are limited. That is great material for a a cryptogram or a cipher but it is only great material because it is true. And this is the same case with ma3dood. We see this in everyday usage of the word 'numbered' and we need to expect that when we read the Quran's words.
Making a competitive comparison between arabic grammarians and the quran is completely illogical. The fact is that the Quran never dedicated itself to explaining Classical Arabic words and grammar, it just used them to get its point accross. Grammarians made it a point to record how Classical Arabic words were used and how its grammar was used. So it is never a Quran vs. Grammarian scenario, that sort of scenario is completely nonsensical. The fact is that the Quran borrowed words and their meanings from Classical Arabic in order to get its points accross in the book, and the grammarians dedicated themselves to how the Arabs who most represented and who were most connected to pre-Quranic Arabia (the linguistic birth ground of the Quran), and how they used their words and grammar.
So I've never denied that ma3doodaat can mean few (although the meaning of 3-10 was more connected to the possibly innovated Islamic concept of pilgrimage or at very least the pre-islamic pagan origin of the pilgrimage which would give it more validity as a definition). I have also never denied that shahr can mean full moon after I saw it in the Classical Arabic dictionaries with my own eyes. But it can also refer to crescent moons, potentially any moon phase (As it can be synonymous with qamar and hilaal. And hilaal can mean any moon phase as well), or the period from waxing crescent to new waxing crescent, or 29 sunset to sunset days which equal 30 sunrise to sunrise days.
The question here is what does the Quran mean when it refers to shahr. I think it is clear from all I have presented in my previous posts that the Quran prefers the meaning of 30 sunrise to sunrise days in its context. And I think it is confirmed in the fact that using this conclusion we will always only have and be able to count only 12 shahr in the year, not a shahr more or less. And so I don't have to explain later, the naturally occurring extra 5 or 6 days after the 12th shahr are never to be ignored but the fact is that they will never constitute a shahr or an extension of any shahr because the Quranically preferred shahr is 30 (sunrise to sunrise) days. No more, no less.
And as always . . . .
sun Godbless,
AnwarI hope you understand my points. Whether you agree with them or not is your decision.
-
Peace Nun,
What menstruations are you talking about?
I was referring to 2228 in which "menstruations" is used for menstruating women in the same way as "shahr" is used i 654 for menopausal women whose menopause is in doubt. The usage of "menstruation" in 2228 implies it is a marker, hence the similar usage of "shahr" in the same context of determining interim after divorce in 654 implies that it is used as a marker also and the meaning of "full-moon" is more consistent with that kind of usage because both usages result in similar number of days.
The meaning of "month" in 654 would result in inconsistency because then the minimum waiting period for menstruating women would be the time period between 3 menstruations or approximately 56 days but the waiting period for menopausal women would be 90 days. Why can a menstruating woman wait for 56 days but a menopausal woman whose menopause is doubtful will have to wait 90 days?
Umm Tariq and Ayman have already addressed this issue before, and this is one of the points that proves that "shahr" most likely means "full-moon" in al-quran.
-
Peace Siki,
I will not trust you when you say this. I honestly believe that I know better, and I only say believe instead of know because since we all see things with our own eyes, if you can't see what I'm seeing then that is what you know as well. And there's no point in getting into a you're right and I'm wrong back and forth. I'd be glad to give you the main reasons why this method of taking the Quran as a dictionary is a mistake and a wrongful imposition onto the book but I'm sure I've already communicated those reason to you in most part in my previous posts. So in respect of your right to choose your own path but also to show serious concern for your choice I'll leave it at a hmmmmm hmm I'd be open to any private conversation you'd like to have on the issue. And in the meanwhile I guess I'll just pray for what I believe to be your enlightenment on this issue pr
As always . . .
sun Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Mr. progod,
Mr. Truthseeker11.
Preconceived notions; male chauvinism perhaps?
I find your repost of that issue to be quite disrespectful. To call them 30 day months and to deal with the issue as such is fine. But to call them Anwar months and to repost the wonderland comment is utterly disrespectful. Please take that Anwar month stuff out of there. It is a personal provocation towards me and I do not appreciate it.
I will take back the wonderland comment and apologize for that. As far as Anwar months is concerned, you should take pride in that. How is it disrespectful? Shahr has never meant "month that always has 30 days" in Classical Arabic. This idea is a new innovation by you and because you are the originator, it makes sense to call it "Anwar month". Einstein never got offended when people referred to his theory as "Einstein's theory" did he? What is wrong to refer to an idea by the name of the innovator? It makes it easier to refer to such an idea and I think you should be proud of that. However, I will refrain from using this term in our discussions.
And contradictions you have can be solved through seriously considering what you consider contradictions. I took the liberty in responding to the points below of taking out the disrespectful commentary.
Not replying to someone's constructive criticism when asked repeatedly to do so is also disrespectful, so thank you for finally responding.
This is not redundant God wants us to complete the month in fasting. It is an ecouragement to fast. Although God's book does repeat and clarify I don't find the book very redundant. But Classical Arabic does have seeminly redundant style but this is used for clarification of details as well.
Some redundancies are ridiculous. It is a ridiculous redundancy to say "complete the count" after saying "whoever among you witnesses the month of 30 days then fast it" (meaning fast for 30 days). The encouragement to fast is at the end of verse 2184 "And if you fast it is better for you if you knew". There is no clarification needed to complete the count if it is already stated to fast for 30 days. That is why "shahr" cannot mean "month of 30 days" in 2185 but can only mean "full-moon" because then there is no ridiculous redundancy.
Again this is not true. How many times have people, including Muslims said they were fasting the month of Ramadan? But are they fasting the nights as well? No. So are they lying? Are we lying when we say sunrise and sunset? So it is an expression that doesn't specifically have to mean to fast even the nights. Quranically, the Quran first says to fast the month and then clarifies on how to fast duriing it. Does to touch a person mean to touch their whole body? Same issue. Whatever confusion that would have been caused by this statement is cleared up in 2187.
You have given a wrong analogy. "Person" and "whole body" are different terms. When you say "fast for month of 30 days" it means fast non-stop for 30 days. "Fast it" does not mean "fast in it". If it had said "falyasum fihi", only then you had a point.
The other way it can make sense is if "shahr" is being used as a marker. For example I can say
"Independence day is July 4th, so celebrate it"
and then I can clarify to celebrate it by participating in a festival lasting 10 nights.
"Shahr" in 2185 is used in a similar fashion. It is used as an event or a marker which signals start of fasting and then it is clarified to fast for a few days. The only way we can fast it (the magical month of 30 days), in that sense, would be to start our fasting AFTER the 30 days are over. We will still fast for few days in the manner specified (dawn to sunset), but not for 30 days.
This question has been answered. Please refer to my previous posts. I will be glad to pm them to anyone interested or to post them again as quotes for those truly concerned.
No, this has not been answered. We can count a fraction of an object too in terms of that object. I know that 1/6 month is not a month but we can COUNT fractions of a unit in term of that unit. For example a hypothetical week can have 4 and a half days, so the count of days in that week will be 4 and 1/2 days. Similarly, if a month is always 30 days then the COUNT of months will be 12 and 1/6 months in a solar year and not 12.
If a month is 30 days then it cannot be 35 days. Hence the extra five days are not apart of any month. They are 5 days leading towards the end of the year. By coincidence this happened to be the old egyptian system. These days were not considered apart of any month. There are 12 months that are counted in the year and these last 5 days are just that, 5 days that conclude the year. The argument is mute because no one is saying that there will be a perfect 12 month system not even the Quran says that a year will be 12 months exactly. But whereas you have to in my opinion unquranically ignore the natural 13th moon in counting the full moons to calculate a year these 5 days are counted as what they are, 5 extra days, a transitionary period if you will. There is no unquranic 13th month here that has to be ignored and there are naturally just 12 months in the year.
We are asked to count 12 full-moons. It does not make a 13th full-moon unquranic. We just don't count it. The problem is that the extra full-moon cannot be a part of the previous full moon, but the extra 5 days can easily be a part of the previous month. It is you who is arbitrarily saying they cannot be a part of it. Thus there will be 11 months of 30 days in a year and the 12th month will have 35 or 36 days.
The Quran talks about the book being given to the last prophet all at once, and whereas most Muslims say it was over time I believe that verse is saying that it was revealed to him all at once, so 443 adn 971 pose a problem to traditional Islamic beliefs but not to mine. 876 and 7518 might be the clue to why a month is mentioned in 2185 as when the book was revealed. Any other verses i come accross that support this I will be sure to pass along. To me it would seem that the book was revealed to him the first night and repeated to him thoughout the 29 days afterwards.
876 and 7518 do not mention DESCENT. 2185 does not talk about repetition or compilation, it talks about DESCENT. 443 and 971 confirm that the DESCENT was in one night, so "shahr" in 2185 has to mean "full-moon" and not "month of 30 days"; otherwise you are creating a HUGE contradiction in al-quran. Therefore, "shahr" can only mean "full-moon" in al-quran.
The discussion on the meaning of shahida was fruitless to me. The word can be used to mean to vouch for, to experience, to witness, to see etc. etc. We are all witnessing September right now and we are going to witness October tomorrow. What does that mean in the context of 2185? If you are going to be alive and able for 30 days during your summer to fast, then fast those 30 days. There is no need to try to make shahida witness in a way that we only witness a day when we complete it. That is just not good sense. You witness the day as it begins. You can vouch for it as well if you know of it beforehand, and you can witness to its passing and your having lived through it afterwards. But to make shahida a witnessing that is something magical, special or something that can only be done after the minute, hour or day has passed is an incorrect limitation of the word.
I really don't see why they are magical? But if we are around for them then nash-hiduhum. We witness them. Not a big deal. In reality if we know about september of 2009 and when it will fall we nash-hiduhu (witness/vouch for it) also.
I find this argument somewhat silly knowing what shahida means. I don't really feel like this comment was made in order to recieve the obvious answer.
POINT # 1
As Ayman has pointed out already, your definition of "shahr" as a "month of 30 days" is completely arbitrary without any quranic backing. How can we witness an arbitrary man made time period of 30 days? This man made month of 30 days will fall on different days depending on when the month is arbitrarily started. You still haven't answered the question that Ayman asked When exactly will you start your arbitrary month of 30 days in the summer season? From what point will you start counting your 30 days? Please give quranic evidence for the exact time when you are going to start your arbitrary month.
POINT # 2
When you witness a day, yes you can witness it as soon as day starts becuse the end of the day is continuous with the start i.e. it is one unit. Month of 30 days, however, is different and made of 30 different units. You cannot witness a month of 30 days just on seeing the first day. ALL 30 DAYS HAVE TO BE WITNESSED IN ORDER TO WITNESS THE ARBITRARY MONTH OF 30 DAYS. The only way to fulfil 2185 will be to witness all the 30 days first and then start fasting, but then how long do we fast? If you start fasting during that 30 day month, then you will be violating the command to witness it first. Hence it is impossible witness the 30 day month before fasting AND fast during it. Therefore, "shahr" can only mean "full-moon" in al-quran.
No matter how many times you repeat your argument that fasting for one day is equivalent to feeding one person, it is not supported by al-quran. It does not matter what you believe. When we look at quranic evidence, according to 589 fasting for 3 days is equivalent to feeding 10 people so the ratio is 13.33. Hence, there is no fixed formula in al-quran for ratio of fasting to feeding people.
In 583-4, fasting and feeding people are both compensation for estranging one's wife, and are therefore EQUIVALENT. Similarly in 589, both fasting and feeding people are compensation for breaking oaths and are therefore EQUIVALENT. When things are equivalent, the order of mentioning them does not make any difference. No where in al-quran, other than 2184, is feeding people mentioned as a DIRECT COMPENSATION for fasting, so the formulas of 583-4 and 589 are not applicable to that situation at all, and thus cannot be used to derive an arbitrary man-made definition of a month.
Your definition of "shahr" also creates a major inconsistency in the interim after divorce. In 2228 "menstruations" is used for menstruating women in the same way as "shahr" is used in 654 for menopausal women whose menopause is in doubt. The usage of "menstruation" in 2228 implies it is a marker, hence the similar usage of "shahr" in the same context of determining interim after divorce in 654 implies that it is used as a marker also and the meaning of "full-moon" is more consistent with that kind of usage because both usages result in similar number of days.
The meaning of "month of 30 days" in 654 would result in inconsistency because then the minimum waiting period for menstruating women would be the time period between 3 menstruations or approximately 56 days but the waiting period for menopausal women would be 90 days. Why can a menstruating woman wait for 56 days but a menopausal woman whose menopause is doubtful will have to wait 90 days?
I do not believe that the Quran defines words. It uses Arabic words in the same ways that can be used outside of the context of the Quran. So examples on how the Quran defines the verb shahida or any other verb or noun from its usage is futile and a mute methodology to me because the Quran uses its words and verbs in the same way the Classical Arabic language (represented by pre-Quranic and early Islamic Arab society) can use them, not the other way around. The comment was not meant to offend you, but definitions of words based solely on interpretations of Quranic usages of those words is fraught with holes, potential problems and room for abuse.
On one hand you say the above, and then on the other hand you use al-quran to define "shahr" based on your faulty and defective deduction from 583-4 while ignoring 589. Is that not a hypocritical attitude to use al-quran to define a word (albeit in a faulty manner) and then ask others not to do it? NO CLASSICAL ARABIC DICTIONARY DEFINES SHAHR AS "A MONTH ALWAYS CONTAINING 30 DAYS". That is purely your novel innovation based solely on using al-quran in a faulty manner.
-
Peace Truthseeker,
No, this has not been answered. We can count a fraction of an object too in terms of that object. I know that 1/6 month is not a month but we can COUNT fractions of a unit in term of that unit. For example a hypothetical week can have 4 and a half days, so the count of days in that week will be 4 and 1/2 days. Similarly, if a month is always 30 days then the COUNT of months will be 12 and 1/6 months in a solar year and not 12.
Exactly, we all routinely use expressions such as "half a month" so certainly fractional units in a continuous measure such as "month" are possible and are to be counted. The only way to count exactly 12 is if they were not continuous but binary 0 or 1 events. There is no "1/6 of an event". In other words, either you have the full-moon event (1) or you don't (0). Only then there is no fraction.
As Ayman has pointed out already, your definition of "shahr" as a "month of 30 days" is completely arbitrary without any quranic backing. How can we witness an arbitrary man made time period of 30 days? This man made month of 30 days will fall on different days depending on when the month is arbitrarily started. You still haven't answered the question that Ayman asked When exactly will you start your arbitrary month of 30 days in the summer season? From what point will you start counting your 30 days? Please give quranic evidence for the exact time when you are going to start your arbitrary month.
Exactly, Anwar couldn't answer my question, because he can't.
Anwar, for the last time please tell us when your arbitrary 30 day scorching month starts and when it ends. Tell us also when your arbitrary four restricted 30 day months start and end. Remember, they can't be arbitrary, otherwise the restriction on hunting would be violated.
NO CLASSICAL ARABIC DICTIONARY DEFINES SHAHR AS "A MONTH ALWAYS CONTAINING 30 DAYS". That is purely your novel innovation based solely on using al-quran in a faulty manner.
Exactly, Anwar is lecturing Siki "I don't trust you when you say this" but then he turns around and trusts himself not just for saying it but for actually building his entire theory around it.
Peace,
Ayman
-
Peace,
Good double team AND assist! I envisoned Truthseeker11 going up with the ball and passing the assist to Ayman and BOOOM! It was a brick! Ah well, nice try. That was like an NBA Pippin/Jordan assist (I'm showing my age, sorry). I guess I should congratulate confused. But to come back to serious land for a bit, Mrs. (or is it Ms.?) truthseeker11, sorry about the assumption that you were a male. All i can really say is oops, my bad. Everyone is entitled to a simple mistake like that, but I do apologize. And why the male chauvinism comment? That wasn't necessary. I admit to a certain degree of chauvinism but I wouldn't try to make it too deep or try to push the point that I'm some sort of misogynist. You didn't but I got the vibe . .(for all that means, my vibes don't seem to be too accurate after getting your gender wrong).
Despite that I'll respond when I get the chance but I'll do my best not to write a book and just respond to the main points of both yours and Ayman's comments. Otherwise I'll be on the computer all day trying to basically reiterate and reword some of the things I've already said but which have not been understood. I'm pretty convinced now that if I haven't been understood by now I never will be. But I guess I feel the need to respond in order to pull my points out of the mud that has just been thrown on them. In any case I'll take my time on the response because seeing how this conversation has gone it has just become a very low number on my priority list. Take that as you will but I'd like to just clarify my points, I won't get personal like you guys want me to by continually calling me out by name (something I asked for restraint on and which I have done my best to avoid), and then I'll try (and I say that with an emphasis on the y) to withdraw from this very, very long-winded topic.
Again and as always I'll give that joyful farwell . . . (I'm trying to keep things upbeat)
sun Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam Anwar & everyone,
In the interest of everyone, can you just please answer the inquiries put forward by thruthseeker11 pointblank. Let the truth stands on its own merits.
Is there a way where we can download the thread on this topic in notepad/word form? Is there such a way? Any help is much appreciated.
O0 RAMON O0
*when i was barely 9 years old, i entered a church & then suddenly a healer-supposed-to-be-with-the-spirit-of-the-infant-jesus exclaimed "may kalabang pumasok (an enemy just entered)"... i never realized until these period in my life that I could have been viewed as an anti-Christ...but then Jesus is not God & there is no second coming except the Day of Resurrection of all. Does that make me an anti-Christ? Then, the fake healer is right all along. Sorry, this should be in the intro yourself thread...but couldn't resist validating the afro icon...wait till I get blind...is that on the left or right eye....? jedi
May God be with you all...SALAMUN ALAYKUM...
-
Peace Ramon,
Is there a way where we can download the thread on this topic in notepad/word form? Is there such a way? Any help is much appreciated.
A possible simple way that you can do right from you browser is to click File > Save As... and then in the dialog box go to the "Save as type" pull down menu and select "Text File (*.txt)". You can then open the text file in Notepad.
The problem is that you would have to repeat this for each page and there are now 42 pages as per my last count. A workaround this is to instead use the above procedure when you are posting a reply because when you post a reply all or most of the thread history appears in a single web page but it will be in reverse chronological order.
Either way you would need to do some cleanup in Notepad to end up with a nicely readable text by getting rid the menu labels and other generic page labels and because the images are going to appear as funny characters.
I am sure there are utilities or plugins out there that would allow you to do more but this is a simple thing that you can do right from your browser if all you need is a text file.
Peace,
Ayman