Hot/"ramadan" Answer

siki

Brother Ayman

salam

Any idea what 34-12 is trying to convey?

34-12 And (We made) the wind (subservient) to Sulaiman, which made a month's journey in the morning and a month's journey in the evening, and We made a fountain of molten copper to flow out for him, and of the jinn there were those who worked before him by the command of his Lord; and whoever turned aside from Our command from among them, We made him taste of the punishment of burning.

peace

siki

ayman

Peace Siki,

Any idea what 34-12 is trying to convey?
34-12 And (We made) the wind (subservient) to Sulaiman, which made a month's journey in the morning and a month's journey in the evening, and We made a fountain of molten copper to flow out for him, and of the jinn there were those who worked before him by the command of his Lord; and whoever turned aside from Our command from among them, We made him taste of the punishment of burning.

Umm Tariq and I had a brief discussion earlier on this. I don't think that we have reached anything conclusive. You may want to read her post and my reply

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg177971;topicseen#msg177971

Peace,

Ayman

truthseeker11

Peace Siki,

I had to jump in again to comment on 3412. The translation you quoted is incorrect. There is no word for journey in the verse. The following is more accurate

3412 And to Solomon the wind/breeze, its early morning one full-moon, and its blowing quickly/briskly/violently in evening one full-moon ......................................

What this verse is talking about is the blowing of the wind forcefully in early morning alternating with blowing forcefully in evening at the command of Solomon. In other words, all this verse means is that Solomon was given control over when the wind blew with force. "Its early morning" implies "its blowing quickly/briskly in early morning", when contrasted with the second phrase "rawahuha shahrun".

siki

Truth seeker. salam

It has been quite long that i have learnt not to trust any translation, and reached the conclusion, that one has to burn one's own oil for deciphering the arabic.
Actually , i wana always quote the arabic, but some how , i havent been able to find an easy tool on the forum to do that (any suggestions) So whenever you find a translated verse from my side , just take it easy, cause i have casually picked up any translation which i can cut and paste, to convey a refrence, or a theme , I may not agree with the translator.

Now coming to the verse it self , there is a word shahr in it , how do you fit in that?

peace

siki

truthseeker11

Peace Siki,

I was just trying to suggest a better translation and what I understood from the verse.

I think the usage of "shahr" here is idiomatic, referring to alternate time markers, implying that Solomon could order the wind to blow forcefully whenever he wanted, miraculously by God's permission. For example, to demonstrate a miracle from God, he could have told his people that he will command the wind to blow forcefully early in the morning this coming full-moon, and then the next full-moon after that he will command the wind to blow forcefully in the evening. God knows better!

To find out exactly what it means, we will have to travel back in time to Solomon's time or wait for Last Day and ask God or wait for Him to reveal its meaning before that. I think this verse is one of the "mutashaabihaat" (37).

(20114) http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

20114
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/PM/20/114

20114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Qur?an before its inspiration is completed to you, and say ?My Lord, increase my knowledge.?

For quoting Arabic, go to the websites I referenced above and just copy and paste the Arabic. Then you can use the font size button to increase the text size.

siki

Dear Ayman

salam

Anna , in another thread has asked a very pertinent question regarding fasting in the near vicinities of poles, to which wakas has refered her to one of your basic articles on the issue. He also recommends not to fast untill one sees the Ramadhan full moon, to which i agree. Now my question is , what is the anotomy of Red full moon in polar regions? Would we find there a schorching Red moon after summer solistice, or not?

siki

truthseeker11

Peace Siki,

Places on Earth North of 66.5 degrees will never see the full-moon during the Northern Hemisphere summer solstice. Hence the "shahru ramadhan" will not be witnessed in those locations.

http//curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=341

farida

Peace Siki,

Places on Earth North of 66.5 degrees will never see the full-moon during the Northern Hemisphere summer solstice. Hence the "shahru ramadhan" will not be witnessed in those locations.

http//curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=341

Salaam
Nor would they witness the new moon so, as I said in this thread earlier on that in the far Northern hemisphere the moon will not be witnessed in the summer and there is no dawn and no sunset so as I understand it people of those Northern countries do not have to fast.
Those who chose to artificially divide the day and fast do it to their own desire, but they would witness it when the Ramadanin falls in other seasons. Fasting in the month of Ramadhan is blessing for the whole mankind including the blind, no one is exempt except those mentioned in the Qur'an.
peace

Tlepsh

Peace Siki,

I had to jump in again to comment on 3412. The translation you quoted is incorrect. There is no word for journey in the verse. The following is more accurate

3412 And to Solomon the wind/breeze, its early morning one full-moon, and its blowing quickly/briskly/violently in evening one full-moon ......................................

What this verse is talking about is the blowing of the wind forcefully in early morning alternating with blowing forcefully in evening at the command of Solomon. In other words, all this verse means is that Solomon was given control over when the wind blew with force. "Its early morning" implies "its blowing quickly/briskly in early morning", when contrasted with the second phrase "rawahuha shahrun".

Salaam Truthseeker,

Since the primary meaning of ?SHAHR? is ?OBVIOUS?. Here can we say

3412 And to Solomon the wind/breeze, its early morning was obvious, and its blowing quickly/briskly/violently in evening was obvious??..

Maybe Samia can comment.

raginggaijin

Peace be unto you, brothers and sisters,

May God guide you to the righteous path, and may He shower you with blessings from Most High.

I found out the hottest month in the area I live in (SF/Bay Area) and fast during August 1-31.

God knows my heart.

Peace and blessings.

Kadeen

Peace and God's blesings be on you all!

I stoped reading after page 15. Sorry all the arguments and running in circles are not helping me try to understand any better.

I basically agree with Ayman's conclusions, as they make the most since to me as to what the Quran(reading) implies.

My questions are for Ayman or anyone that agree's with his consclusions.

Let me see if I got this right..

ramadhan(scorching fullmoon) begins on the fullmoon after the summer solstice.(2185)

The night of measure, is the night before the abstinence of the scorching moon(ramadhan) begins,Which lasts 10 days.

Abstinence occurs during the daylight periods of the 10 day period. For those with non believing families or cant afford to stay the whole 10 days may stay 3 at the gathering and then abstain for 7 at home.2196

The months of restriction are four months,beginning with the scorching fullmoon.(the restriction is against hunting during those months)

The Gathering(hajj), last 10 days, Fullmoon to the crescent and occurs durig one or any of the last 3 restricted months.The gathering is to be attended by all believing families, but for those who dont have believing families, they can leave after 2/3 days.(2184; 2203)

The year is solar and has 12 months.(936)

Is umrah the lesser gathering and when should it be done? Can you explain to me 2196-197?
And perform Hajj (the gathering) and Umrah (lesser gathering?) for Allah; and if you are prevented, send sacrifice whatever is available; and do not shave your heads until the sacrifice reaches its destination; so whoever among you is sick or has an ailment in the head, must pay a compensation by fasting or charity or sacrifice; then when you are in peace - and whoever takes the advantage of combining the Hajj and Umrah, it is compulsory for him to sacrifice whatever is available; and whoever cannot afford it, must fast for three days while on the pilgrimage, and seven when you have returned to your homes; these are ten in all; this decree is for him who is not a resident of Mecca; and keep fearing Allah and know well that Allah?s punishment is severe.
The gathering(hajj) is during the well-known months; and for one who intends to perform the Hajj in it - neither is there to be mention of cohabitation in the presence of women, nor any sin, nor a fight with anyone till the completion of Hajj; and whatever good you do, Allah knows it; and take provision along with you for the best provision is piety; and keep fearing Me, O men of understanding!

I know it says in 2185 that whoever witnesses the scorching moon should fast/abstain, does 2227 imply that even if we dont abstain, we should still attend the gathering(hajj)? It says it should be publicaly announced.
"And publicly announce the gathering(hajj) to all people ? they will come to you, on foot and on every lean she-camel, coming from every far distant journey."
In order that they may gain their benefit, and mention the name of Allah on the appointed days as He has bestowed the sustenance to them ? the inarticulate animals; therefore eat from them yourself and feed the distressed destitute.

If I am mixing up things and not understanding some things, please explain.

Thanks!
Kadeen

Thanks ayman for answering my questions the pm.

Kadeen

I meant to say "Thanks ayman for answering my questions from the pm that I sent you".

I still need clarification on some of the other questions.

Pseudo

2233 And the mothers breast feed their children two years complete

3114 and his weaning/separation in two years (fixed at 365 days x 2)

4615 and his weight/pregnancy with him, and his weaning/separation thirty months

Equation
weight/pregnancy with him + 730 days (365 x 2) breast feeding = 30 months

30 full moons can vary

1 lunar month = 29.53059 days
29.53059 x 30 = 885.9177 days
29.53059 x 29 = 856.38711 days

Therefore, weight/pregnancy has to vary in equation to compensate

Woman 1 becomes pregnant day after full moon;
Weight/pregnancy with him = 886 ? 730 = 156 days

Woman 2 becomes pregnant day before full moon;
Weight/pregnancy with him = 856 ? 730 = 126 days

Regardless if 2 months early, 9 months, or month late, if both woman are pregnant equal #of days, it would contradict to state that one woman was burdened 29 days longer.

Peace

ayman

Peace Pseudo,

2233 And the mothers breast feed their children two years complete

The Arabic word "hawl" doesn't necessarily mean year. It is better translated as "cycle" as one brother kindly pointed out a few months ago on this forum. For delivering a newborn, the cycle is normally 40 weeks or about 10 full moons.

So 2 cycles would be 2*10 full-moons. So pregnancy (10) + weaning (20) = 30. This is confirmed by 4615 that you quoted

4615 and his weight/pregnancy with him, and his weaning/separation thirty months

3114 and his weaning/separation in two years (fixed at 365 days x 2)

The passage actually says "within" two years. So it is saying "in less than two years". This is consistent with it being normally 20 full-moons or a few more full-moons in case the baby is born prematurely.

Equation
weight/pregnancy with him + 730 days (365 x 2) breast feeding = 30 months

The formula is wrong. There is no calendar system that has 280+730 = 1010 days in 30 months or 33.67 days per month.

30 full moons can vary
1 lunar month = 29.53059 days
29.53059 x 30 = 885.9177 days
29.53059 x 29 = 856.38711 days
Therefore, weight/pregnancy has to vary in equation to compensate
Woman 1 becomes pregnant day after full moon;
Weight/pregnancy with him = 886 ? 730 = 156 days
Woman 2 becomes pregnant day before full moon;
Weight/pregnancy with him = 856 ? 730 = 126 days
Regardless if 2 months early, 9 months, or month late, if both woman are pregnant equal #of days, it would contradict to state that one woman was burdened 29 days longer.

You are describing the same type of problem faced by doctors when they try to determine the due date for delivery. The lunar cycle provides an approximate estimate because it follows a cycle that generally resembles the woman's menstrual cycle. Similarly, doctors don't calculate the due date from the time of conception but from the time of a woman's last menstruation. This plus the fact that the length of pregnancies vary is why when doctors give a woman her due date, they tell her that it can vary within +/-14 days of that date (in other words a 28 days spread, which is close to your 29).

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Kadeen,

ramadhan(scorching fullmoon) begins on the fullmoon after the summer solstice.(2185)

Yes, "shahr ramadhan" literally means "scorching full-moon".

The night of measure, is the night before the abstinence of the scorching moon(ramadhan) begins,Which lasts 10 days.

The night of measure is the night of the full-moon itself. the abstinance lasts for 10 days starting from the break of the day (dawn) following the night of measure.

Abstinence occurs during the daylight periods of the 10 day period. For those with non believing families or cant afford to stay the whole 10 days may stay 3 at the gathering and then abstain for 7 at home.2196

The "scorching full-moon" marks the abstinance while the next three moons are for marking the feast. 2196 talks about the feast/"hagg".

The months of restriction are four months,beginning with the scorching fullmoon.(the restriction is against hunting during those months)

The word "month" doesn't occur in the great reading. The word "shahr" means "full-moon" the period between four-full moons is 3 lunar "months".

The Gathering(hajj), last 10 days, Fullmoon to the crescent and occurs durig one or any of the last 3 restricted months.The gathering is to be attended by all believing families, but for those who dont have believing families, they can leave after 2/3 days.(2184; 2203)

Yes, the feast/"hagg" lasts from the full-moon to the crescent and is marked by the three inviolable full-moons following the scorching full-moon.

The year is solar and has 12 months.(936)

No solar year has 12 constant months. 936 is talking about "counting" exactly 12 full-moons every single year and therefore skip counting the occasional 13th full-moon that we would get every few years. This would automatically adjust the lunar cycle with the solar cycle so that the hunting restrictions are not violated.

Is umrah the lesser gathering and when should it be done? Can you explain to me 2196-197?
And perform Hajj (the gathering) and Umrah (lesser gathering?) for Allah; and if you are prevented, send sacrifice whatever is available; and do not shave your heads until the sacrifice reaches its destination; so whoever among you is sick or has an ailment in the head, must pay a compensation by fasting or charity or sacrifice; then when you are in peace - and whoever takes the advantage of combining the Hajj and Umrah, it is compulsory for him to sacrifice whatever is available; and whoever cannot afford it, must fast for three days while on the pilgrimage, and seven when you have returned to your homes; these are ten in all; this decree is for him who is not a resident of Mecca; and keep fearing Allah and know well that Allah?s punishment is severe.
The gathering(hajj) is during the well-known months; and for one who intends to perform the Hajj in it - neither is there to be mention of cohabitation in the presence of women, nor any sin, nor a fight with anyone till the completion of Hajj; and whatever good you do, Allah knows it; and take provision along with you for the best provision is piety; and keep fearing Me, O men of understanding!

The word "hagg" means "feast" and "umrah" could be translated as something like "prosperity". So 2196 is talking about completing the feast and prosperity and enjoying/taking advantage of the feast and prosperity.

I know it says in 2185 that whoever witnesses the scorching moon should fast/abstain, does 2227 imply that even if we dont abstain, we should still attend the gathering(hajj)? It says it should be publicaly announced.
"And publicly announce the gathering(hajj) to all people ? they will come to you, on foot and on every lean she-camel, coming from every far distant journey."
In order that they may gain their benefit, and mention the name of Allah on the appointed days as He has bestowed the sustenance to them ? the inarticulate animals; therefore eat from them yourself and feed the distressed destitute.

If I understood your question correctly, then yes we should try to attend the feast, even if we didn't abstain. Abstinance is a different exercise.

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Peace Ayman
I would like to comment on this

Beging quote

No solar year has 12 constant months. 936 is talking about "counting" exactly 12 full-moons every single year and therefore skip counting the occasional 13th full-moon that we would get every few years. This would automatically adjust the lunar cycle with the solar cycle so that the hunting restrictions are not violated.

End Quote

According to your argument, in order to not violate the hunting restriction all over the earth, you will need different calender for each part of the earth. As you know, for example, when it is summer in Saudi Arabia, it is winter in south Africa, and therefore hunting season would be violated in south Africa if you do not have different Calendar for them.
In other words, if June, July, August, and September are the Hunting restriction time because of animal matting time (Fall) and animal heat exhaustion (summer), then, people in South Africa will be free to hunt from October to June period, in which animal matting time and heat exhaustion are current (violating hunting rules).

Peace

Kadeen

Peace ayman,
1-thanks!
Questions 2-6-Thats what I was trying to say.Thanks! )
7-What do you mean exactly by enjoying our prosperity? The text suggest we can keep umrah at other times, but may keep umrah during hajj.
8-Thats what I was thinking, thanks!

God Bless!
Kadeen