Hot/"ramadan" Answer

Kadeen

Peace belH,
Not trying to be rude or answer for ayman,but it seems like the same people keep asking the same questions over and over when the answers have already been given in the same thread more than one time....
This easy to understand concept has been answered in this thread and others several times. Ayman and others have explained that the restriction is different between northern and southern hemispheres. So the restriction,hajj and fasting/abstinence in the southern hemisphere would be different or opposite of when people peform them in the northern hemisphere. In the southern hemisphere when its Winter here, people would be keeping the restrictions,hajj and fasting and we will not be, and when its winter there, we would be keeping them. And its been explained in this thread why this is possible or allowed. And there would be No need for two different calendars, as they are mainly used for secular reasons and not for Quranic festivals etc. We can use them or have them, but they are not required to observe the times given to us in the Quran, as also has been explained over and over in this thread and others, we use the moon and sun for counting and observing what God wishes us to do, not calendars.
Hope that helps.
Peace
Kadeen

Peace Ayman
I would like to comment on this

Beging quote

No solar year has 12 constant months. 936 is talking about "counting" exactly 12 full-moons every single year and therefore skip counting the occasional 13th full-moon that we would get every few years. This would automatically adjust the lunar cycle with the solar cycle so that the hunting restrictions are not violated.

End Quote

According to your argument, in order to not violate the hunting restriction all over the earth, you will need different calender for each part of the earth. As you know, for example, when it is summer in Saudi Arabia, it is winter in south Africa, and therefore hunting season would be violated in south Africa if you do not have different Calendar for them.
In other words, if June, July, August, and September are the Hunting restriction time because of animal matting time (Fall) and animal heat exhaustion (summer), then, people in South Africa will be free to hunt from October to June period, in which animal matting time and heat exhaustion are current (violating hunting rules).

Peace

Pseudo

Peace Ayman,

The formula is wrong. There is no calendar system that has 280+730 = 1010 days in 30 months or 33.67 days per month.

An equation is given

3114 and his weaning ?in less than two years?
4615 and his weight/pregnancy with him, and his weaning 30 full-moons

Solving using substitution

30 full-moons (856 to 886 days) ? his weaning (< 730 days or 2 yrs) = weight/pregnancy
18 to 22+ weeks = weight/pregnancy

Lunar months

(29.53059 x 30) 885.9177 days ? his weaning (< 730 days or 2 yrs) = weight/pregnancy
22+ weeks = weight/pregnancy

The main issue with full-moon, it violates equality for same offense depending on date of oath

2226 For those who swear away from their women (wives), waiting four months

Peace

ayman

Peace Belal,

According to your argument, in order to not violate the hunting restriction all over the earth, you will need different calender for each part of the earth. As you know, for example, when it is summer in Saudi Arabia, it is winter in south Africa, and therefore hunting season would be violated in south Africa if you do not have different Calendar for them.
In other words, if June, July, August, and September are the Hunting restriction time because of animal matting time (Fall) and animal heat exhaustion (summer), then, people in South Africa will be free to hunt from October to June period, in which animal matting time and heat exhaustion are current (violating hunting rules).

Animals follow the solar cycle so their hunting restriction period must be different in the Northern and Southern hemispheres. As Kadeen kindly pointed out, this was explained in details on this thread and it is precisely because the restriction is about hunting that this confirms that the timing of the restriction period must be different between the Southern and Northern hemispheres.

On the other hand, sectarians have abrogated the hunting restriction because they only restrict it for pilgrims during the few days of their so-called Hajj (which, by the way, is not timed by either the full-moon or any phase of the moon but starts arbitrarily on the 8th of the Dhu Al-Hijja). So they are blatantly violating even their own false interpretation of "ash-hur" as "months" and that the waxing crescent times the beginning of the "hajj". So what sectarians are currently doing as far as timing goes is wrong by any measure, even their own measure. It is not surprising that their timing is completely disconnected from the god's creation in the heavens and the earth and from the god's sayings. Indeed, whoever the god misguides then there can be no guide for

Did they not look in the dominion of the heavens and the earth and everything that the god has created, and perhaps that their own term has drawn near? So with which saying after this do they have faith in?
Whoever the god misguides, there can be no guide for and he leaves them aimlessly wandering in their tyranny.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Kadeen,

7-What do you mean exactly by enjoying our prosperity? The text suggest we can keep umrah at other times, but may keep umrah during hajj.

The word "umrah" is a common concept that can mean "prosperity" or "prospering", etc. So it is used in 918, for example, do indicate that the institutions of authority ("masajid&quot of the god "prosper" only with those who have faith.

I think that the "prosper" part of the feast has to do with the purpose of the feast of witnessing benefits (222. Naturally, because people are gathered from all over for the feast, this is an opportunity to conduct business and commerce, all of which would result in prosperity. So if one enjoys prosperity in the course of the feast then one should donate whatever you can of livestock to contribute to the feast.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Pseudo,

An equation is given
3114 and his weaning ?in less than two years?
4615 and his weight/pregnancy with him, and his weaning 30 full-moons
Solving using substitution
30 full-moons (856 to 886 days) ? his weaning (< 730 days or 2 yrs) = weight/pregnancy
18 to 22+ weeks = weight/pregnancy
Lunar months
(29.53059 x 30) 885.9177 days ? his weaning (< 730 days or 2 yrs) = weight/pregnancy
22+ weeks = weight/pregnancy

As I explained above, while 3114 tells us "less than two years", 2233 more specifically tells us that the weaning is two cycles (which for newborns is 10 full-moons). So the equation is as follows

4615 = .

As you can see, the two sides are equal.

The main issue with full-moon, it violates equality for same offense depending on date of oath
2226 For those who swear away from their women (wives), waiting four months

There is no violation and this is perfectly consistent with 2228

2228 And the divorced women wait for three menstruations...

Notice that here too there is no equality since depending on when the divorce happens (right before or right after a menstruation), the waiting period will similarly vary. In fact, 2226 and 2228 confirm that the way we count menstruations and the waiting period are the same (notice the same Arabic word "tarabus" used in both). So this means that like menstruations, "shuhur" are also "events" the only way this can be possible is if "shahr" meant "full-moon".

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Peace Belal,

Animals follow the solar cycle so their hunting restriction period must be different in the Northern and Southern hemispheres.

Peace Ayman

All I'm trying to do is to show why I disagree with you, in order to reach a common ground in which we all would be united.

Please read the following verses, which you might read 100 times before, so you would understand why I'm not agreeing to having different times for Northern and Southern Hemispheres.

Hunting is restricted while a believer is "Hurum"--under restriction

51 O you who believe, honor your contracts. Made lawful for you are all the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you, and what you are not allowed to hunt of the game while you are under restriction. God decrees as He pleases.
51
52 O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Sacred Dwelling; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when it is permitted (when the restriction is over after Hejj) for you, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Sacred Temple; make you aggress. And bond together in piety and righteousness, and do not bind together in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for God's retribution is severe.
52

If hunting restriction is violated, then the believer will have to do the following in a Certain place--Kabba

595 O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whosoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kaaba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whosoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595

Therefore, if one violated the hunting restriction in Southern hemispheres, according to the verse, he will have to travel to Kabba. And that is where I do not agree; I believe that Hunting restriction is during Hajj time.

Moreover, if a believer from Southern hemispheres wanted to perform Hajj, He or She will either have to travel during the Northern hemispheres gathering time or during the restricted period of the Southern hemisphere; if He would perform Hajj during Northern time, He will have to restrict himself from hunting, which means that he would be restricted twice in one year (one time during the Southern period and one time during Hajj); and if he would choose to perform Hajj during Southern time, then he would be restricted from hunting in a time that is not animal matting season nor animal heat exhaustion time in Northern part (violation of your theory).

I believe that the four restricted months period is the same in northern and southern hemisphere; and I believe that hunting restriction is only during Hajj time (5-95). And that is why I believe that Ramadan and Hajj time will rotate in season, hence, Lunar Year.

Ayman, I'm not trying to start another discussion nor aggravate any of you; God is my Witness that it makes me sad to see Submitters and Believers divided, and therefore, I'm trying to unite our understandings.

Peace
Salam

ayman

Peace Belal,

All I'm trying to do is to show why I disagree with you, in order to reach a common ground in which we all would be united.
Please read the following verses, which you might read 100 times before, so you would understand why I'm not agreeing to having different times for Northern and Southern Hemispheres.
Hunting is restricted while a believer is "Hurum"--under restriction
51 O you who believe, honor your contracts. Made lawful for you are all the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you, and what you are not allowed to hunt of the game while you are under restriction. God decrees as He pleases.
51

Exactly. 51 clearly says "under restriction" and not only if you are attending the "hajj" in the same way that "honoring your contracts and eating all the livestock, except that which is being recited to you" is an obligation not only if you are attending the "hajj".

52 O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Sacred Dwelling; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when it is permitted (when the restriction is over after Hejj) for you, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Sacred Temple; make you aggress. And bond together in piety and righteousness, and do not bind together in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for God's retribution is severe.
52

Please read the Arabic and see that the "hajj" is nowhere mentioned in 52. The underlined part are false words inserted based on preconceptions from Hadiths.

If hunting restriction is violated, then the believer will have to do the following in a Certain place--Kabba
595 O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whosoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kaaba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whosoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595
Therefore, if one violated the hunting restriction in Southern hemispheres, according to the verse, he will have to travel to Kabba. And that is where I do not agree; I believe that Hunting restriction is during Hajj time.

Again, in 595 there is absolutely no mention of "hajj". The god doesn't refer to the pagan stone cube in Mecca. The word "al-kaaba" in Arabic means "the base". The inviolable house is the base and its location is clearly given in 2226 as any place where partners are not setup with the god. It doesn't matter if it is in the Northern Hemisphere or the Southern one or anywhere.

Moreover, if a believer from Southern hemispheres wanted to perform Hajj, He or She will either have to travel during the Northern hemispheres gathering time or during the restricted period of the Southern hemisphere; if He would perform Hajj during Northern time, He will have to restrict himself from hunting, which means that he would be restricted twice in one year (one time during the Southern period and one time during Hajj); and if he would choose to perform Hajj during Southern time, then he would be restricted from hunting in a time that is not animal matting season nor animal heat exhaustion time in Northern part (violation of your theory).

If you travel to the US during the hunting restriction period in the US then you would be restricted from hunting in the US. You are not going to tell the police when they arrest you that you are from Downunder and therefore you follow the hunting restrictions there. Since their purpose is to protect wildlife, the hunting restrictions are a function of the location where the hunting is taking place. So even if you didn't travel to the US and while in Sydney you remotely triggered a gun that killed a deer in the US during the hunting restriction then you still violated the hunting restriction.

I believe that the four restricted months period is the same in northern and southern hemisphere; and I believe that hunting restriction is only during Hajj time (5-95). And that is why I believe that Ramadan and Hajj time will rotate in season, hence, Lunar Year.

595 doesn't mention "hajj" at all. As you admit, the god clearly tells us that the restricted period is "four shahr". So even by your incorrect definition of "shahr" as "months", the restriction on hunting should be for four of your months. So you are essentially contradicting and violating your own understanding.

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Again, in 595 there is absolutely no mention of "hajj". The god doesn't refer to the pagan stone cube in Mecca. The word "al-kaaba" in Arabic means "the base". The inviolable house is the base and its location is clearly given in 2226 as any place where partners are not setup with the god. It doesn't matter if it is in the Northern Hemisphere or the Southern one or anywhere.

Peace Ayman

The Kabaa is the place that Abraham built and called the Humans for Hajj 22-27.
And the verse I quoted clearly shows that any one violates the Hunting restriction will have to kill an equal animal in Kabba (5-95).
Please read 5-97 and you will know what is Kabba

597 God has made the Kaaba to be the Sacred Dwelling; to enforce for the people, and for the restricted month, and for the donations, and for regulation; that is so you know that God knows what is in heavens and what is in Earth, and that God is aware of all things.
597

If God did not mention Kabba as the place in which hunting violators will have to kill an equal animal as a punishment, I would have agreed with you that Hunting restriction is during the four restricted months.

Ayman, I believe that God has declared four months out of the twelve and called them Hurm "Restricted" (9-36).
And if one choose to perform Hajj in one of them, then he becomes under restriction "Hurm" from many things including Hunting. But when done with hajj, the restriction of hunting is no longer valid.

2197 The Pilgrimage months are made known. So whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage therein, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor baseless argument in the Pilgrimage. And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O people of understanding.
2197 .

Peace

ayman

Peace Belal,

The Kabaa is the place that Abraham built and called the Humans for Hajj 22-27.

Abraham didn't build any pagan stone cube. The present stone cube in Mekka was built by the Saudis in 1996. This is an indisputable fact.

And the verse I quoted clearly shows that any one violates the Hunting restriction will have to kill an equal animal in Kabba (5-95).
Please read 5-97 and you will know what is Kabba
597 God has made the Kaaba to be the Sacred Dwelling; to enforce for the people, and for the restricted month, and for the donations, and for regulation; that is so you know that God knows what is in heavens and what is in Earth, and that God is aware of all things.
597
If God did not mention Kabba as the place in which hunting violators will have to kill an equal animal as a punishment, I would have agreed with you that Hunting restriction is during the four restricted months.

Again, no mention of "hajj" here. The real "kaaba" doesn't suddenly cease to exist when there is no "hajj". In fact, the word "qiyama" for all people describing "kaaba" means maintenance or persistent, in other words it is not just for a specific time or only for the specific people who are attending the "hajj".

Ayman, I believe that God has declared four months out of the twelve and called them Hurm "Restricted" (9-36).
And if one choose to perform Hajj in one of them, then he becomes under restriction "Hurm" from many things including Hunting. But when done with hajj, the restriction of hunting is no longer valid.
2197 The Pilgrimage months are made known. So whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage therein, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor baseless argument in the Pilgrimage. And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O people of understanding.
2197 .

Notice that 2197 doesn't say "no hunting". The reason that 2197 doesn't mention anything about hunting or being "restricted" is because the hunting restriction has nothing to do with "hajj". Even if no one in the world went to the "hajj", the four inviolable/restricted "shahr" would still be "inviolable/restricted". This is a fact.

Peace,

Ayman

Kadeen

Peace Ayman,
Okay that makes since, thanks!

God Bless,
Kadeen

Peace Kadeen,

The word "umrah" is a common concept that can mean "prosperity" or "prospering", etc. So it is used in 918, for example, do indicate that the institutions of authority ("masajid&quot of the god "prosper" only with those who have faith.

I think that the "prosper" part of the feast has to do with the purpose of the feast of witnessing benefits (222. Naturally, because people are gathered from all over for the feast, this is an opportunity to conduct business and commerce, all of which would result in prosperity. So if one enjoys prosperity in the course of the feast then one should donate whatever you can of livestock to contribute to the feast.

Peace,

Ayman

farida

Notice that 2197 doesn't say "no hunting". The reason that 2197 doesn't mention anything about hunting or being "restricted" is because the hunting restriction has nothing to do with "hajj". Even if no one in the world went to the "hajj", the four inviolable/restricted "shahr" would still be "inviolable/restricted". This is a fact.

Peace,

Ayman

Salaam

This is because there is no single calendar and in the Quran the moon is held out as the one for keeping counts of days, the secret months are not to keep the count of time but a set of months when hunting is prohibited, which is a seasonal event in the different part of the world which can at time come within the month of fasting or Hajj if it falls in those months when wild life need to be preserved.
peace

belH

Peace Belal,

Abraham didn't build any pagan stone cube. The present stone cube in Mekka was built by the Saudis in 1996. This is an indisputable fact.

Peace
That is where I believe the Kabba is

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=anyer2hHVRs&feature=related

I would love to hear more about 1996 buliding of The Cube.

As far as the Hunting restriction, I still believe it is during the Hajj time while the believer is Hurm.
Peace

Tlepsh

As far as the Hunting restriction, I still believe it is during the Hajj time while the believer is Hurm.
Peace

In 5.95 God commands the believers not to kill wildlife when they are restricted and explains to us how one shall be punished (or how he shall compensate) if he doesn?t obey to this restriction.

In 5.96 God tells us that there are two kinds of wildlife that in water and that on land. We do not have to impose any restrictions on water game but we must impose some restrictions to protect the wildlife on land.

If hurumun means a state of sacredness during the hajj which begins after the appointed places named miqat, which are places around and some kilometres away from Mecca, this means that God doesn?t know that there is no sea around Mecca and he allows us to kill wildlife in the seas around Meca while we are in a state of hurum.

Samia

.

In 5.96 God tells us that there are two kinds of wildlife that in water and that on land. We do not have to impose any restrictions on water game but we must impose some restrictions to protect the wildlife on land.

If hurumun means a state of sacredness during the hajj which begins after the appointed places named miqat, which are places around and some kilometres away from Mecca, this means that God doesn?t know that there is no sea around Mecca and he allows us to kill wildlife in the seas around Meca while we are in a state of hurum.

This is a very good point.

Tlepsh

This is a very good point.

Thank you Samia,

In this respect I have a question. I will be thankful to you if you explain to me the following.

In Lanes Lexicon page 2616 ka3b (&#1576 means ?eminence, or nobility, and glory.

Rajul 3aliy al-ka3bi ( &#1576 means a man eminent, or noble, and successful in his enterprises.

So in the same way can we say (rajulun hadyan baligha alka3bati) ( &#1616 man who reached glory in guidance?

5.95 ? ?..

Pseudo

Peace Ayman,

There is no violation and this is perfectly consistent with 2228

2228 And the divorced women wait for three menstruations...

No ?shahr? in verse.

Notice that here too there is no equality since depending on when the divorce happens (right before or right after a menstruation), the waiting period will similarly vary. In fact, 2226 and 2228 confirm that the way we count menstruations and the waiting period are the same (notice the same Arabic word "tarabus" used in both). So this means that like menstruations, "shuhur" are also "events" the only way this can be possible is if "shahr" meant "full-moon".

Woman waits 3 menstruations (not months) - Start day of divorce
End day of 3rd menstruation since divorce

Man waits 4 months (not menstruations) - Start day of oath
End exactly 4 months later

Menstruations are variable/inconsistent one-time events.

Month is fixed consistent ?time? between two events. This is basic logic.

Peace

Pseudo

In 5.95 God commands the believers not to kill wildlife when they are restricted and explains to us how one shall be punished (or how he shall compensate) if he doesn?t obey to this restriction.

In 5.96 God tells us that there are two kinds of wildlife that in water and that on land. We do not have to impose any restrictions on water game but we must impose some restrictions to protect the wildlife on land.

If hurumun means a state of sacredness during the hajj which begins after the appointed places named miqat, which are places around and some kilometres away from Mecca, this means that God doesn?t know that there is no sea around Mecca and he allows us to kill wildlife in the seas around Meca while we are in a state of hurum.

Peace,

It means God knows the habitat is scarce in land wildlife; a few thousand people would eat everything.

Mecca is only 40 miles to the Red Sea abundant with fish to stock up with

http//maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=mecca+saudi&ie=UTF8&ll=21.473518,39.814453&spn=1.290712,1.917114&t=h&z=9

http//www.hurtigruten.com/Global/Images/Greenland/580x235b/grnlDryFish_580x235.jpg

This is a logistics issue and viable option for having a large meeting of thousands or millions of people anywhere in the world especially in the Arabian Peninsula. How else to advise solving the problem for people traveling to the area or any place?

596 Permitted for you is the sea's hunting/fishing, and its food, enjoyment to you and to the caravan/people often moving, and forbidden on you the land's hunting?

ayman

Peace Pseudo,

Woman waits 3 menstruations (not months) - Start day of divorce
End day of 3rd menstruation since divorce
Man waits 4 months (not menstruations) - Start day of oath
End exactly 4 months later
Menstruations are variable/inconsistent one-time events.
Month is fixed consistent ?time? between two events. This is basic logic.

This is not basic logic. This is your pseudo logic.

http//www.truthpizza.org/logic/badlogic.htm

You are essentially building a circular argument saying that "shahr" means "month" because "month is fixed consistent "time" between two events". As you can see, it is circular and begs the question because the assumption of "shahr" meaning "month" (the very thing you are trying to prove) is in your premise.

The other pseudo logic in your argument is that the premise itself is false since actually "month is NOT a fixed consistent "time" between two events". For example, February is not consistent with January, etc.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Pseudo,

It means God knows the habitat is scarce in land wildlife; a few thousand people would eat everything.
Mecca is only 40 miles to the Red Sea abundant with fish to stock up with
http//maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=mecca+saudi&ie=UTF8&ll=21.473518,39.814453&spn=1.290712,1.917114&t=h&z=9
http//www.hurtigruten.com/Global/Images/Greenland/580x235b/grnlDryFish_580x235.jpg
This is a logistics issue and viable option for having a large meeting of thousands or millions of people anywhere in the world especially in the Arabian Peninsula. How else to advise solving the problem for people traveling to the area or any place?
596 Permitted for you is the sea's hunting/fishing, and its food, enjoyment to you and to the caravan/people often moving, and forbidden on you the land's hunting?

Please see my replies to Belal above. Again, 596-97 don't mention "hajj" at all so your argument is completely irrelevant to begin with. Your argument is based entirely on preconceptions from Hadiths that abrogate the clear hunting restriction and make it for the period of 8th of Dhu Al-Hijja to the 12th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and only for the area around Mecca. On the other hand, we are indisputably told in the great reading that the period is FOUR "shahr" and there is absolutely no mention of Mecca or any specific town where only there the hunting is restricted and no where else. So regardless of what you think "shahr" means, you are violating your own understanding by following what sectarians do. The god has made this clear, so don't dispute the god's restrictions and allow what he had made restricted based on your Hadiths preconceptions.

Peace,

Ayman

Tlepsh

Mecca is only 40 miles to the Red Sea abundant with fish to stock up with

Peace Pseudo,
The following information is taken from the official site of the Ministry of Hajj Saudi Arabia for your information. The restricted area is shown in green color in the map given at the site. This area is called Haram (restricted area) and everywhere outside this area including the Red Sea is called Al-Hill (Free Area).

Location of Miqats
There are five places some distance from the Holy City of Makkah which pilgrims must not cross before they are in a state of Ihram if they intend to enter al Masjid al Haram for Umrah or Hajj. These points or stations are called Miqats. For map, see Location of Miqats

Dhu'l-Hulayfah This miqat is about 9 kilometers from Madinah and about 450 kilometers from Makkah. Dhu'l-Hulayfah is the miqat for those who live in Madinah and for those who approach Makkah from that direction.
Juhfah This miqat is about 190 kilometers to the northwest of Makkah. This is the miqat for the people who come from the direction of Syria.
Qarn al-Manazil This miqat is a hilly place about 90 kilometers to the east of Makkah. This is the miqat for the people of Nejd or for those coming from that direction.
Dhat Irq This miqat is about 85 kilometers towards the northeast side of Makkah. This is the miqat for the people of Iran, Iraq and for those coming from that direction.
Yalamlam This miqat is a hilly area about 50 kilometers to the southeast of Makkah. This is the miqat for the people of Yemen and others coming from that direction. It is the miqat for many of the pilgrims from China, Japan, India, Pakistan who come by ship.
The area outside the Haram, the holy land on which the City of Makkah stands, is called al-Hill. Muslims who enter the Haram area on business or for other purposes need not do the ihram before entering the Holy City of Makkah unless they have the intention to perform Umrah or Hajj. Muslims coming to Makkah with the intention of performing Umrah or Hajj must not cross a Miqat without first entering into the state of Ihram, unless they live within the area between Miqat and the Haram. In this case they do Ihram either at home or just before entering the Haram area.