Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Belal,
Ayman, why should you be ashamed from being an Egyptian? confused
Any way, let me explain to you how God can empower us to name our calender months and how calculate.
The Prophet and his followers understood the following Quranic rules about their Calender
It shall be 12 Months per year
We shall use the Sun and the Moon to calculate the length of the year
READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY
Because we cannot use the sun to calculate the month because there is no obvious Markers to mark the Month Boundary (Beginning and End), nor we can not use the sun to calculate the day boundary (Beginning and End) because the Moon is not available every day. Thus, no brainier, we use the Moon to calculate the month because of its obvious cycle allows us to do so (beginning of the Month and End), and the sun to calculate the day because of its obvious cycle allow us to do so.
We shall use the Moon to calculate the Month and the sun to calculate the day.
Now Relax for a minute and then
READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY
Because the Month in which the Quran was revealed is known to the prophet, then all the prophet had to do is to count 11 months after this month in order to reach the month in which the Quran was revealed Anniversary .
Therefore, that is how he counted, "Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (One year from Ramadan ends), Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7..........
DO YOU GET IT
Now, is the prophet or even any of his believers empowered to use names (except of the name Ramadan) instead of numbers to keep track of the 12 moon cycles? Sure, they are because God did not give names to them. THUS, THE ARABIC CALENDER WAS CREATED USING ITS CURRENT NAMES.
Now Relax EGYPTIAN MAN, and think it over before replying.I am relaxed. I am not the one holding a grudge against a specific nationality.
"Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (One year from Ramadan ends), Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7..........
So you admit that if this is the case then "ramadhan" would be the FIRST "month" (or first "full-moon" and not the 9th month. Thank you for admitting what I have been saying all along and confirming that the Islamic Calendar is messed up and the placing of your so-called Ramadhan as the 9th month is 100% arbitrary.
Hopefully, I am not increasing your level of frustration and hate for Egyptian men.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Belal,
I am relaxed. I am not the one holding a grudge against a specific nationality. )
"Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (One year from Ramadan ends), Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7..........
So you admit that if this is the case then "ramadhan" would be the FIRST "month" (or first "full-moon" and not the 9th month. Thank you for admitting what I have been saying all along and confirming that the Islamic Calendar is messed up and the placing of your so-called Ramadhan as the 9th month is 100% arbitrary.
Hopefully, I am not increasing your level of frustration and hate for Egyptian men. )
Peace,
Ayman
And say ?The Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.? We send down (stage by stage) in the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss. (Surah Al Isra? 1781-82)
ME whatever D
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Peace Ayman,
Peace everyone,
I think that the example that Guest brought illustrates a fairly simple and obvious issue with all manmade calendars
The above would apply not only to the sectarian manmade calendar but also to any manmade calendar. For example, in the Gregorian calendar when February occurs also depends on manmade arbitrary decision about which month 1 the calendar started from. So had the Gregorian calendar been made to start a month later then January would be the present day February and February would be March and so on
Gregorian 2---3----4----5----6---7---8---9---10--11--12--1
Alternate 1---2----3----4----5---6---7---8---9---10--11--12The same also applies to the arbitrary order of the months. The arbitrary manmade order of the months determines when February occurs in the same exact way that the arbitrary manmade order of the months in the sectarian calendar determines when so-called Ramadan occurs. There is ZERO logic to the order of the months in the sectarian calendar in the same way that there is ZERO logic to the order of the months in the Gregorian calendar. This is why the god doesn?t use manmade calendars for timing but uses clear cosmic phenomena that are independent of arbitrary manmade decisions. This is the simple issue that some here such as Guest, Eid, Belal and perhaps others following this thread have been struggling to grasp. Once everyone grasps this simple reality then the rest is easy.
Peace,
Ayman
As usual, Ayman doesn?t know what he is talking about. He turns a simple matter into a complex and complicated thing. This is his nature. I will illustrate Ayman?s ill thinking using a simple concept that uses Prophet Muhammad as the reference point. Other prophets can be used just as well.
Arbitrary Months 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12
(Pre Quranic)Prophet Muhammad 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12
(Receive revelation)Prophet Muhammad 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12
(Defines Calendar)Prophet Muhammad has the authority to define the arbitrary pre-Quranic months into Islamic months/calendar. Thus, Prophet Muhammad establishes the Islamic calendar with 9 as the month of Ramadan because that?s when he received the revelation from the God. Henceforth, by definition the calendar cannot be called arbitrary anymore. Thus, the Islamic calendar has been canonized by Prophet Muhammad.
Now, guest wants to establish an Islamic calendar with new initial point (mark or month 1)
Islamic Calendar 10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6----7----8----9
Guest Calendar 1---2----3----4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12As a God fearing person, I would have to maintain synch with Prophet Muhammad defined month of Ramadan. Therefore, in Guest calendar, Ramadan is performed in the month 12. This way I have a different calendar, yet fasting in the same physical timeframe, even though Guest month is 12 and Islamic month is 9. Similarly, I can move the initial point to any point in time without compromising the calendar defined by Prophet Muhammad.
This is so simple, yet, Ayman doesn?t get it.
223 - Among the people, there are those who argue about GOD without knowledge, and follow every rebellious devil.
224 - It is decreed that anyone who allies himself with him, he will mislead him and guide him to the agony of Hell.
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And say ?The Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.? We send down (stage by stage) in the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss. (Surah Al Isra? 1781-82)
Indeed.
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Now, guest wants to establish an Islamic calendar with new initial point (mark or month 1)
Islamic Calendar 10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6----7----8----9
Guest Calendar 1---2----3----4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12Peace all,
Good and simple illustration, may God reward you for your efforts.
"Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (One year from Ramadan ends), Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7..........
So you admit that if this is the case then "ramadhan" would be the FIRST "month" (or first "full-moon" and not the 9th month. Thank you for admitting what I have been saying all along and confirming that the Islamic Calendar is messed up and the placing of your so-called Ramadhan as the 9th month is 100% arbitrary.
I hope Guest illustration is enough to fix your logic...otherwise, you are experiencing "LACK OF INTELLIGENT" .
Now, I take it that you agree with my other points
The Prophet and his followers understood the following Quranic rules about their Calender
It shall be 12 Months per year
We shall use the Sun and the Moon to calculate the length of the yearBecause we cannot use the sun to calculate the month because there is no obvious Markers to mark the Month Boundary (Beginning and End), nor we can not use the sun to calculate the day boundary (Beginning and End) because the Moon is not available every day. Thus, no brainier, we use the Moon to calculate the month because of its obvious cycle allows us to do so (beginning of the Month and End), and the sun to calculate the day because of its obvious cycle allow us to do so.
We shall use the Moon to calculate the Month and the sun to calculate the day.
Ayman, Stop acting like the 19ers...Follow the Quran well-established guides, and stop twisting the Non-well-established meanings to cancel out the Well-Established Ones
It is well-established that the Year Has 12 Months
It is well-established to use the Moon and the sun to calculate our timings, Year, Day, and Month.Otherwise, 3-7 speaks about you.
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4057 The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of
mankind know not.2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers; and they said We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny.
2286 God does not burden a soul except with what it can bear. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as You have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bear; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; You are our patron, so grant us victory over the disbelieving people. -
Salam Bilal,
Peace all,
Ayman, why should you be ashamed from being an Egyptian? confused
...........................
) Now Relax EGYPTIAN MAN, and think it over before replying.
Peace
Since When Nationality or race has to do with one's belief ?
I'm happy you didn't ask for our skin color too bravo
What do you think about the moroccans, the pakistanis, the australians? I want to know....
I think every reader now would give you no more credibility, if he already gave you any btw...
brain sickness have no nationality, you should know it...think it over before replying ;D
Salam
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Salam Bilal,
Since When Nationality or race has to do with one's belief ?
I'm happy you didn't ask for our skin color too bravo
What do you think about the moroccans, the pakistanis, the australians? I want to know....
I think every reader now would give you no more credibility, if he already gave you any btw...
brain sickness have no nationality, you should know it...think it over before replying ;D
Salam
rotfl
Duck, where did I say that Egypt produces Fake prophets (or sects leaders) except for Rashad Kalifa and Ayman...Did I say that because Ayman is from Egypt, then he is Fake, or did I say Ayman, the Egyptian Man, is Fake as Rashad Kalifa, the Egyptian Man.
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Peace belH,
May the verses you sent guide us all to what Allah wishes.
These verses are very important and again emphasize that we need to focus on the Quran as a basis for our understanding. Now if you combine that with the verse of my signature, the environment needs to be studied, and with other verses Allah urges to study our environment, together as what is within ourselves, and then verify for ourselves, by any means at our disposal, that indeed what is said in the Quran is indeed the Truth.
This is supposed to be ongoing, it has not stopped with Imam Shafie, or Ibn Taimia, Hassan Al Banna, Syed Qutb or Muhamed Abdu (to cite Arab "reformers".
I would think that after a long period of stagnation, it is overdue to look into every single thing that deals with the faith, and verify everything as far back as the first schisms in Islam happened.
Allah is very patient, but He has a plan, and no one can stop His plan, so if we are not worthy, He will destroy us and find others more worthy to carry His plan.
There are already people who have the correct attitude, but not the correct belief, they are misled by the "muslims" themselves (which is a crime against Allah) because they present to them a bad image of Islam.
Read this for instance, this is a beautiful example of someone who should have been a Muslim doing his job of working to unravel the secrets of God's creation, and in the process finding something useful to help mankind. Now when he succeeds, how many "muslims" will be saved by his efforts. And how many "muslims" will also be punished because he was not exposed to the true message of Islam?
http//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6859344.ece
In the same way Mr Ayman is making an effort to understand the Quran, I was easily convinced from the start by him because I was not brought up by a sectarian (my father was a muslim), and because I strongly believe that Allah gave us logic, geometry and understanding of patterns (mathematics) to make pronouncements, and if you look at the way the {Allah,} are related to one another, you will use a luni-solar calendar as it takes into account of all the parameters that Allah describes in the Quran...
You can look at it as an opinion, or you can be honest and dig deep in your heart and find out who are you doing it for (clinging to a pure Moon calendar), just ask Allah, without anticipating your correct answer...
it might take some time, after all it took me seven to ten years to get out of the sunni hell hole...2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers; and they said We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny.
2286 God does not burden a soul except with what it can bear. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as You have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bear; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; You are our patron, so grant us victory over the disbelieving people. -
Peace belH,
May the verses you sent guide us all to what Allah wishes.
These verses are very important and again emphasize that we need to focus on the Quran as a basis for our understanding. Now if you combine that with the verse of my signature, the environment needs to be studied, and with other verses Allah urges to study our environment, together as what is within ourselves, and then verify for ourselves, by any means at our disposal, that indeed what is said in the Quran is indeed the Truth.
This is supposed to be ongoing, it has not stopped with Imam Shafie, or Ibn Taimia, Hassan Al Banna, Syed Qutb or Muhamed Abdu (to cite Arab "reformers".
I would think that after a long period of stagnation, it is overdue to look into every single thing that deals with the faith, and verify everything as far back as the first schisms in Islam happened.
Allah is very patient, but He has a plan, and no one can stop His plan, so if we are not worthy, He will destroy us and find others more worthy to carry His plan.
There are already people who have the correct attitude, but not the correct belief, they are misled by the "muslims" themselves (which is a crime against Allah) because they present to them a bad image of Islam.
Read this for instance, this is a beautiful example of someone who should have been a Muslim doing his job of working to unravel the secrets of God's creation, and in the process finding something useful to help mankind. Now when he succeeds, how many "muslims" will be saved by his efforts. And how many "muslims" will also be punished because he was not exposed to the true message of Islam?
http//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6859344.ece
In the same way Mr Ayman is making an effort to understand the Quran, I was easily convinced from the start by him because I was not brought up by a sectarian (my father was a muslim), and because I strongly believe that Allah gave us logic, geometry and understanding of patterns (mathematics) to make pronouncements, and if you look at the way the {Allah,} are related to one another, you will use a luni-solar calendar as it takes into account of all the parameters that Allah describes in the Quran...
You can look at it as an opinion, or you can be honest and dig deep in your heart and find out who are you doing it for (clinging to a pure Moon calendar), just ask Allah, without anticipating your correct answer...
it might take some time, after all it took me seven to ten years to get out of the sunni hell hole...If you want to provide a constructive argument, please answer to this
The Prophet and his followers understood the following Quranic rules about their Calender
It shall be 12 Months per year
We shall use the Sun and the Moon to calculate the length of the yearBecause we cannot use the sun to calculate the month because there is no obvious Markers to mark the Month Boundary (Beginning and End), nor we can not use the sun to calculate the day boundary (Beginning and End) because the Moon is not available every day. Thus, no brainier, we use the Moon to calculate the month because of its obvious cycle allows us to do so (beginning of the Month and End), and the sun to calculate the day because of its obvious cycle allow us to do so.
We shall use the Moon to calculate the Month and the sun to calculate the day.
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If you want to provide a constructive argument, please answer to this
The Prophet and his followers understood the following Quranic rules about their Calender
It shall be 12 Months per year
We shall use the Sun and the Moon to calculate the length of the yearBecause we cannot use the sun to calculate the month because there is no obvious Markers to mark the Month Boundary (Beginning and End), nor we can not use the sun to calculate the day boundary (Beginning and End) because the Moon is not available every day. Thus, no brainier, we use the Moon to calculate the month because of its obvious cycle allows us to do so (beginning of the Month and End), and the sun to calculate the day because of its obvious cycle allow us to do so.
We shall use the Moon to calculate the Month and the sun to calculate the day.
Prohphet(pbuh) understood this and had correct system. God would ensure that he understood correctly, if he did not , HE guided him, The system got corrupted gradually after his death, but we have the system preserved in the great reading , we have to take clues and info from Quran and then use our God given ability of logic and reason, to restore what God originally intended it to be. We must not let our brain logic be over ridden by corrupted baggage that we have been carrying along since our childhood.
We should use sun for day, and years, and as these are two units far apart, we need to split the bigger unit (year) into smaller units taking help of the moon. As the moon has different geometry/orbit , not in sync with sun, so it cannot split the bigger unit into accurate exact units. So God does not make this unit as a month because of inherent inaccuracy , but tell us to take help from a marker to split it into approximate units for keeping count. Also, the different shapes give us some idea where we are in that period (man made month)
Month is not quranic, nor is week hour, minute or second.
Main question is what to use for a year? and it looks like you are getting on track. Year is solar, because the life on earth is being governed by sun, not by moon. Moon is just a help to split the bigger unit into intermediate count.
siki
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Prohphet(pbuh) understood this and had correct system. God would ensure that he understood correctly, if he did not , HE guided him, The system got corrupted gradually after his death, but we have the system preserved in the great reading , we have to take clues and info from Quran and then use our God given ability of logic and reason, to restore what God originally intended it to be. We must not let our brain logic be over ridden by corrupted baggage that we have been carrying along since our childhood.
We should use sun for day, and years, and as these are two units far apart, we need to split the bigger unit (year) into smaller units taking help of the moon. As the moon has different geometry/orbit , not in sync with sun, so it cannot split the bigger unit into accurate exact units. So God does not make this unit as a month because of inherent inaccuracy , but tell us to take help from a marker to split it into approximate units for keeping count. Also, the different shapes give us some idea where we are in that period (man made month)
Month is not quranic, nor is week hour, minute or second.
Main question is what to use for a year? and it looks like you are getting on track. Year is solar, because the life on earth is being governed by sun, not by moon. Moon is just a help to split the bigger unit into intermediate count.
siki
Let no one underestimate The Lord; There is no inaccuracy in our Lord's created System, rather, it is in the Humans' logic, which when failing to grasp the wisdom of the system, they call it inherent Inaccuracy.
The Bigger, the year, should be split into 12 Moon Cycles, as per our Lord Instruction.Peace,
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Let no one underestimate The Lord; There is no inaccuracy in our Lord's created System, rather, it is in Humans Brain which when failing to grasp the wisdom of the system, they call it inherent Inaccuracy.
The Bigger, the year, should be split into 12 Moon Cycles, as per our Lord Instruction.Peace,
Peace
exactly, you need to have something to split first, the thing to split is the solar year...
think, use this amazing one kilo computer between the ears that the Almighty Allah has given you.
and the Moon helps you do the splitting (counting / segmenting) exactly like cutting a dessert pie... -
Let no one underestimate The Lord; There is no inaccuracy in our Lord's created System, rather, it is in Humans Brain which when failing to grasp the wisdom of the system, they call it inherent Inaccuracy.
The Bigger, the year, should be split into 12 Moon Cycles, as per our Lord Instruction.Peace,
As the moon cycle is 29,53 days, hence it would visibly return to the same shape for an earth bound observer either in 29 or sometimes in 30 days, hence a month can not be a fixed period. I am not talking about inaccuracy in God's system.
And yes , you should count 12 moons in a year as per our God's instruction , and ignore the thirteenth when it arrives every 3rd year.
Remember , God does not say that 12 moon cycles make it a year, but it is worded , "count only 12 in a Year" He is not making a year out of 12 moon cycles , but telling you to count 12 moons only in a year cycle which you know. And what is a year? orbit of earth around sun , is a year.
siki
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Salam siki,
As the moon cycle is 29,53 days, hence it would visibly return to the same shape for an earth bound observer either in 29 or sometimes in 30 days, hence a month can not be a fixed period. I am not talking about inaccuracy in God's system.
And yes , you should count 12 moons in a year as per our God's instruction , and ignore the thirteenth when it arrives every 3rd year.
Remember , God does not say that 12 moon cycles make it a year, but it is worded , "count only 12 in a Year" He is not making a year out of 12 moon cycles , but telling you to count 12 moons only in a year cycle which you know. And what is a year? orbit of earth around sun , is a year.
siki
Well written, but it's still too complicated for them to get it. Try to make it more simple. O0
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And yes , you should count 12 moons in a year as per our God's instruction , and ignore the thirteenth when it arrives every 3rd year.
do you mean that the thirteenth Moon is the inherent Inaccuracy? thus, we should ignore it...Thus what would you call this Moon, would you call it "God's System Inherent Inaccuracy"? or to be more polite, GSII Moon?
Remember , God does not say that 12 moon cycles make it a year, but it is worded , "count only 12 in a Year" He is not making a year out of 12 moon cycles , but telling you to count 12 moons only in a year cycle which you know. And what is a year? orbit of earth around sun , is a year.
Show me where in the Quran that God says the Year Should be calculated by using the Gorginian Calender or any other similar Calender?
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Peace belH
it is ok, I am not a patient man, but here goes, i will ask you this question"imagine you only have a pure lunar calendar, how if the need arises would you point to a month that is contained in one season, like winter or autumn, spring or summer?"
take your time...
also surely the Quran does talk about the seasons, so you cannot say it is not Quranic...
Salam
Noble
You need a WELL-ESTABLISHED proof from Quran, about the above assumption, before proceeding with your argument.