Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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2726 ?And I found her and her people prostrating to the sun instead of God! And the devil had made their works appear good to them, so he kept them away from the path, for they are not being guided.?
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Peace Ayman,
Quote from Ayman, Aug 2009 "....the first full-moon after the summer solstice will always occur within 1-29 days after the summer solstice."
Quote from Ayman, Nov 20, 2004, 35830 PM "The full-moon of scorching heat would be 0-30 days after that."
First you say 0-30 days, now you say 1-29 days. Do you even realize that this is a contradiction. You have so many of them that you lost count of it. Any speech that comes out of your mouth is a contradiction. You are so good at it. Therefore, I am awarding the Ph.D degree to you for generating the most contradictions in a small article. You are the only winner of such certificate.
Quote from Ayman "Thanks once again for helping further discredit the traditional timing and for proving that the timing based on the great reading is best."
Perhaps you didn't get the message, I was discrediting Ayman solstice timining system. One interval has about 354 days and other interval has about 383 days. Then you tried to discount the 13th moon to maintain sanity.
There is no traditional timing but there is such thing as Ayman's timing system where you haphazardly integrated two of God's system in violation of Quranic verses which say that the sun and the moon not to catch each other. You are trying catch them and bring them together. In doing so, you have produced an inconsistent timing system. You are the master compromiser, like the one who tried to bring the idolatry and monotheistic religion together or the one who follows two different sources. People like you tried to divert Prophet Muhammad but failed
1773 - They almost diverted you from the revelations we have given you. They wanted you to fabricate something else, in order to consider you a friend.
1774 - If it were not that we strengthened you, you almost leaned towards them just a little bit.
Our timing system is based on Quranic verse 105 - "He is the One who rendered the sun radiant, and the moon a light, and He designed its phases that you may learn to count the years and to calculate. GOD did not create all this, except for a specific purpose. He explains the revelations for people who know." We use moon because it has phases to count number of years unlike the sun. Therefore, Our system is consistent with God's commandment.
Quote from Ayman "It will thus always be in the same season and will never haphazardly move within the year."
Oh, now you are calling the God a haphazard designer of lunar system. How low can you get.
Quote from Ayman "The interval between summer solstices by definition is the number of days between solstices. So your calculation is irrelevant."
There is nothing wrong with the summer solstice as we know it, but your sun/moon solstice is totally screwed-up.
Quote from Ayman "What fraction? Where did I use a fraction? You are a liar because I never used a fraction and I always count exactly 12 full-moons every single year."
The fraction associated with the solar cycle 365.2xxx; you are ignoring it.
Quote from Ayman "Where did I say anything about an 8 year cycle or any number of years cycle? You are lying and building a strawman because you are clearly desperate."
This the system you produced. You don't even know your own silly creation. Your system begets 8 years cycle.
Quote from Ayman "Your false question simply demonstrates your ignorance of the indisputable fact that by definition the solar cycle is the interval between solstices."
This definition does not apply to Ayman solstice. You have a screwed-up timing system
Salaam guest,
It is so good of you to give us previous references but one thing would really help if you could paste with these exhibits page number as well as reply number so that we can all check it easily
Many thanks
peace -
Peace,
Quote from Ayman "Hence, the vast majority of people never sees the new-moon crescent and only sees the 1-2 day old crescent"
Ayman says that an error of 1-2 days is possible with new moon based timing system. Since his so called system is better than the new moon timing system, his system must produce an error less than a day.
Quote from Ayman "...This is the simplest and most straightforward method that would generate the least discrepancies no matter how primitive or advanced a society is ......."
In one of his post he cited the full moon date of July 6, 2009 which is in fact an error of more than a day thereby disproving his own system. But that's not the end of it, I am going to show if this system is used by the primitive people they would make an error of 30 days or more.
If you look at the sun rise/set time in the table below, you will find sun rise and sun set times are the same for days 20-22 under June column (0443 & 1937 hrs). What does this means. It means Ayman system cannot pinpoint the longest day accurately. Therefore, it is not a clear marker as he claimed to be. Determination of longest day is critical because the full moon sighting is dependent on it per Ayman theory. We need atomic and quartz timing standard to find the longest day. With the aid of modern technology we know this day to be 21 June of each year. How would the primitive people know when the longest day is? How would have they resolve the minute variation in the length of days around June 21? If they were forced to use Ayman theory, some community would have used June 20, another community would have used June 21, and other communities would have used June 22. The one who used June 20 summer solstice (full moon is also on 20 June) will make an error of 30 days. This is because Ayman's theory does not allow the use of full moon prior to summer solstice i.e. June 20 full moon. Please note that such problem does not exist with the new moon timing system
Salaam guest
This is a brilliant observation bravoAs a side note, we want Ayman to talk/write as much as possible. Because every time he write he contradicts a fact or his previous writing. Even a child will detect his shortcomings. And we find people (mature?) following him. How sad is that? Ayman, please don't stop writing, we look forward to your contradictory statements. It makes my day. Thank you.
peaceGood idea but his repeated ranting drives me mad brickwall It reminds me of very annoying people I have to deal with all the time,
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Peace Guest and others blindly following the arbitrary sectarian calendar,
As expected, you have evaded answering this question and none of the sectarians on this thread could help you
Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".
You will NEVER be able to answer because just like everything else in your manmade useless unintelligent system, your timing for "hajj" is 100% arbitrary and it neither starts nor ends with the crescent.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Rami,
I have a way to resolve the issue.
A year is a count of 12 lunar cycles.
4 are restricted.
Ramadan is the hottest lunar cycle.
No need for any intercalation, determining solstices or misnomers.
Pure, simple and straightforward.This is actually pretty complicated since now you have to measure temperature first and find the hottest cycle then go back in time and fast it. This also doesn't solve the logical absurdity that results from "shahr" meaning "month" or "cycle" which implies that you would have to witness the month/cycle first and then go back in time and abstain. The ONLY way to resolve this is if "shahr" was an event. There is simply no other way.
On the other hand, the summer solstices are fixed so they are pretty easy to determine using the clear method in 1712. This is the ONLY way to apply 1712. Next, all you would have to do is to count exactly 12 full-moons between solstices as per 936 and skip the occasional 13th full-moon. This effortlessly and automatically adjusts the cycle to match the seasons without relying on corrupt religious authorities who arbitrarily delay and abrogate the hunting restriction as the sectarians do. This is the ONLY and simplest fool-proof way to use the lunar cycle while maintaining it in sync with the seasons.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Everyone,
Please make a note of Ayman's method which is in line with that of the rejectors in 937
Please pay perticular attention to 937 (B) below
A-936. The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous
check all the calculations from Rex and make a note of his question to quickduck page 80 ? Reply #1185 on August 25, 2009, 055646 AM ?
Rex Why forbidden to kill an animal on June 22 in one year and OK to kill same animal until July 20 in a different year?
He again raised that question with Ayman here on page 81 ? Reply #1202 on August 26, 2009, 042940 AM
Rex Again, why forbidden on June 22 one year and OK to kill the animal until July 20 in a different year?
Both ignored this very valid Question which is the core as described in 937.
Now Read 937
B- 937 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; , thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people
peace
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Peace Farida,
A-936. The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous
Now Read 937
B- 937 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; , thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting peopleRex Why forbidden to kill an animal on June 22 in one year and OK to kill same animal until July 20 in a different year?
Please notice that Rex didn't say "the next year" or "one year and one year" (consecutive years) as 937 says. He said "one" year and a "different" year. He knows that when the full-moon after the summer solstice falls on June 22, the one after it will never be on July 20. It will be approximately on July 10. So it is not an "additional month" every year even according to your false translation of 937. As I have indicated to Rex, even across millions of years the hunting restriction will always still be within the same time frame (early summer-early fall). On the other hand, let?s put your arbitrary sectarian timing to the test using your OWN understanding of 936-37
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The arbitrary sectarian hunting restriction that you and Rex blindly follow is not even four ?months? in blatant violation of 936-37. It is only a few days during your so-called Hajj from 8th of Dhu Al-Hijja to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijja and the few days before it when you reach the vicinity of Mecca and do the so-called Ihram. So it is not even a week, let alone a month or four months per your own understanding. So you are hypocritically violating even your OWN understanding.
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Your arbitrary restricted ?months? are months 11, 12, and 1 and then you suddenly haphazardly jump to month 7 (Rajab). This clearly contradicts 95 which confirms that the restricted period is consecutive.
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This is all in addition to the fact that your translation of 936-37 is false. The word nasi? in Arabic doesn?t mean ?month?, it means ?delay? or ?falling behind in something?. This year your restricted four ?months? will be about 21 October - 19 January and then you jump ahead six months to sometimes in June. So it is completely haphazard. Next year they will be just as haphazard and so on. So essentially you are delaying one of the four months and messing up the timing every year and not just one year out of two as the Arabs did at the time 936-37 was revealed. So you are even worse than the rejecters in 937.
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The timing of the restricted four months is 100% arbitrary and has nothing to do with the very wild life it is supposed to protect (which follows the solar cycle).
These are just four examples of your hypocrisy where you quote 936-37 but forget to apply them to yourself. On the other hand, I follow 936 to the letter and count exactly 12 full-moons every single year. This automatically results in 937 not being violated and the hunting restriction always falling in the same timeframe even a million years from now.
It is no wonder that neither you, Rex, Guest, Progressive, or any other hypocrite sectarian will ever be able to answer how your so-called Hajj, which like everything about your mindless system, arbitrarily takes place from 8 to 13 of Dhu Al-Hijjah despite 2189 being absolutely clear that the crescents must be used to time ?hajj?. Here is the question again that you are hypocritically evading and hoping that people forget about
Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".
I guarantee that you will NEVER be able to answer.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman,
I have regards for you in respect of scholarly research works in matters of Islam.
Please can you tell in a single line how one must abstain when it comes to Shar Ramadhan as per your research and understanding. I have not yet read your article fully and objectively. I'm asking this question to just know your contention in a nutshell.
Is is abstinence only on a full moon day in summer solstice?
Yours truly,
K.Vivekanandan
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Peace Vivek,
I have regards for you in respect of scholarly research works in matters of Islam.
Please can you tell in a single line how one must abstain when it comes to Shar Ramadhan as per your research and understanding. I have not yet read your article fully and objectively. I'm asking this question to just know your contention in a nutshell.
Is is abstinence only on a full moon day in summer solstice?Basically, witnessing "shahr ramadhan" means witnessing the scorching full-moon. Per 2184-185, when we witness the scorching full moon we abstain the abstinence for the complete count (10 days) of a few days (3-10 days). The scorching full-moon is the full-moon after the summer solstice. The interval between solstices is how years are determined as per 1712. The lunar cycle is kept in sync with the solar cycle by counting exactly 12 full-moons in the solar year (as per 936). Thus, we would skip the occasional 13th full-moon and this would automatically and effortlessly align the lunar cycle with the solar cycle. It is the perfect system.
I hope this very short summary helps.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Farida,
Please notice that Rex didn't say "the next year" or "one year and one year" (consecutive years) as 937 says. He said "one" year and a "different" year. He knows that when the full-moon after the summer solstice falls on June 22, the one after it will never be on July 20. It will be approximately on July 10. So it is not an "additional month" every year even according to your false translation of 937. As I have indicated to Rex, even across millions of years the hunting restriction will always still be within the same time frame (early summer-early fall). On the other hand, let?s put your arbitrary sectarian timing to the test using your OWN understanding of 936-37
Peace Ayman,
Ok let?s put our timing to the test; Please provide us with YOUR detailed calculations,(no indication or as *) like the recent contributors have done below
Page 68 Eid Abdullah - Reply #1024 on Reply #1005 on August 09, 2009, 123931 AM and Reply #1011 on August 10, 2009, 052759 AM ??AM
Page 68, Guest- Reply #1009 on August 09, 2009, 080345 PM
Page 70 Gues - Reply #1037 on August 16, 2009, 042005 PM ?Disproved your theory
The length of days between July 6, 2009 and June 25, 2010 is 354 days. This is lunar based timing system which does not synch up with the seasons.
Page 76 Rex?s Reply #1136 on August 23, 2009, 015700 PM ? Rolled back calculations for the Muslim(not Islamic) calendar
Page 78 Rex -Reply #1163 on August 24, 2009, 074701 PM ? calculations showing it is Impossible without the sun there cannot be moon phases.
Page 81 Rex?s Reply #1202 on August 26, 2009, 042940 AM ? about your "Hot Moon Fantasy"...
page 84 Guest with his detailed calculation ? Reply #1253 on August 29, 2009, 080443 PM ?
With no 13th moon, we loose 8 year periodicity. And if we add all the years we get 361.233. No connection to solar cycle. Re? Contradiction.
where is the connection between solar year and the solstice interval satisfying the condition ?absolutely clear that the year is solar??-
The arbitrary sectarian hunting restriction that you and Rex blindly follow is not even four ?months? in blatant violation of 936-37. It is only a few days during your so-called Hajj from 8th of Dhu Al-Hijja to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijja and the few days before it when you reach the vicinity of Mecca and do the so-called Ihram. So it is not even a week, let alone a month or four months per your own understanding. So you are hypocritically violating even your OWN understanding
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Your arbitrary restricted ?months? are months 11, 12, and 1 and then you suddenly haphazardly jump to month 7 (Rajab). This clearly contradicts 95 which confirms that the restricted period is consecutive.
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This is all in addition to the fact that your translation of 936-37 is false. The word nasi? in Arabic doesn?t mean ?month?, it means ?delay? or ?falling behind in something?. This year your restricted four ?months? will be about 21 October - 19 January and then you jump ahead six months to sometimes in June. So it is completely haphazard. Next year they will be just as haphazard and so on. So essentially you are delaying one of the four months and messing up the timing every year and not just one year out of two as the Arabs did at the time 936-37 was revealed. So you are even worse than the rejecters in 937.
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The timing of the restricted four months is 100% arbitrary and has nothing to do with the very wild life it is supposed to protect (which follows the solar cycle).
These are just four examples of your hypocrisy where you quote 936-37 but forget to apply them to yourself. On the other hand, I follow 936 to the letter and count exactly 12 full-moons every single year. This automatically results in 937 not being violated and the hunting restriction always falling in the same timeframe even a million years from now.
This is just your opinion we want proof
It is no wonder that neither you, Rex, Guest, Progressive, or any other hypocrite sectarian will ever be able to answer how your so-called Hajj, which like everything about your mindless system, arbitrarily takes place from 8 to 13 of Dhu Al-Hijjah despite 2189 being absolutely clear that the crescents must be used to time ?hajj?. Here is the question again that you are hypocritically evading and hoping that people forget about
Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".
Big and bold writings cannot obscure that this thread is about Ramadan not hajj, fftopic there is another thread going on to discuss hajj etc yes
I guarantee that you will NEVER be able to answer.
Peace,
Ayman
Haven?t we read this many times before, same old same old; here are your recent samples;
- Even if you go for a Million years into the future, you will find that the first full-moon after the summer solstice will always occur within 1-29 days after the summer solstice. It will thus always be in the same season and will never haphazardly move within the year. muscle You will NEVER be able to answer because just like everything else in your manmade useless unintelligent system, your timing for "hajj" is 100% arbitrary and it neither starts nor ends with the crescent..
& I don?t want to go into a million years nor am I going for hajj brickwall
peace
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Peace,
Please notice that Rex didn't say "the next year" or "one year and one year" (consecutive years) as 937 says. He said "one" year and a "different" year. He knows that when the full-moon after the summer solstice falls on June 22, the one after it will never be on July 20. It will be approximately on July 10. So it is not an "additional month" every year even according to your false translation of 937. As I have indicated to Rex, even across millions of years the hunting restriction will always still be within the same time frame (early summer-early fall).
937 But the postponement an increase in the disbelief, those who disbelieved become misguided with it, they permit a year and they forbid a year, to agree to (the) term (that) God prohibited, so they permit what God prohibited, and (the) evil (of) their deeds was beautified for them, and God does not guide the people the disbelieving.
Full Moon Makkah, Saudi Arabia
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=2013&n=151
2013 23-Jun 233 PM daytime
2016 20-Jul 157 AM28 days difference end date included
Basically, witnessing "shahr ramadhan" means witnessing the scorching full-moon. Per 2184-185
How do you fast a full moon?
How do you see a full moon with poor vision or if blind?
How do you see a full moon if living in cloudy weather?
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Ayman, you are ignoring my points... (
Nothing new, I guess...There is no more escaping with your childish comments above.
I said
Quote from progressive1993 on Yesterday at 050409 PM
Also, another question for ayman
How can the Quran have been sent down IN a moon?
Just to recap, it actually says "in".. too bad, eh?
2185 The month of Ramadan, is the month in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion...
2185 Shahru ramadana allatheeonzila feehi alqur-anu hudan lilnnasiwabayyinatin mina alhuda waalfurqanThen you said
It is the same as when someone tells you I am sitting in the scorching full moon or in a bright sun or in a cloudy afternoon. This is perfectly normal in regular speech. It doesn't mean that they traveled to the sun and are sitting on its surface!
There you go..you directly answered my question "how can it be reveled IN the MOON of Ramadan." Stop making excuses and baseless accusations like you always do.
Anyways, ayman, just a question
what sounds more logical to you
- The Quran was revelaed IN THE MONTH OF RAMDAN
or - The Quran was revealed IN THE MOON OF SCORCHING HEAT?
Put the whole Ramadan issue aside - which one sounds more logical to you language-wise?
From submission.org/fasting-bible.html
Jeremiah 366. "Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the Lord in the ears of the people in the Lord's house upon the fasting day and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities." Here we find a definite practice of fasting. The following verses will show that this is not just a day of fasting, but precisely a month. More detail on this day of fasting is given in verse nine "And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the Lord to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem." This is not a special fast proclaimed by a religious ruler, because this particular king was wicked. Nevertheless, he did follow the formality of what was practiced the month of fasting. The time given for this fasting is stated to be the ninth month.
The season of the fast in this particular year, thought by many scholars to be 604 B.C., is stated to be in the winter. Jeremiah 3622, "Now the king sat in the winter house in the ninth month and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him." Now the present Jewish calendar adds a thirteenth month from time to time to match the solar year, so that the ninth month of the civil year (used in the dates of kings' reigns) falls in May or June, summer in Palestine. If we project the lunar calendar presently used in the Middle East back in history, we find that the ninth month falls in November of the year 604 B.C. It appears that during Bible times a purely lunar calendar was used, and the ninth month was a month of fasting.
Indeed, God did not lie when he said
2183 O you who acknowledge, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you that perhaps you may be righteous/aware.
Ayman, do you have any evidence of monotheists having fasted after witnessing the "moon of scorching heat"?? Do you have ANY evidence? I showed you my evidence for the real Ramadan - not the fabricated, one-third "Ramadan" of yours. Are you still going to reject the real Ramadan, and not fast for a full month - not just your lousy 10 days?
To hard to counter/answer?
- The Quran was revelaed IN THE MONTH OF RAMDAN
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Everyone, including the sects and traditionalists are right except Ayman and his "cronies."
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Everyone, including the sects and traditionalists are right except Ayman and his "cronies."
rotfl what makes you say that?