Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Ayman, I'm still waiting for a response..
There is no more escaping with your childish comments above.
I said
Quote from progressive1993 on Yesterday at 050409 PM
Also, another question for ayman
How can the Quran have been sent down IN a moon?
Just to recap, it actually says "in".. too bad, eh?
2185 The month of Ramadan, is the month in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion...
2185 Shahru ramadana allatheeonzila feehi alqur-anu hudan lilnnasiwabayyinatin mina alhuda waalfurqanThen you said
It is the same as when someone tells you I am sitting in the scorching full moon or in a bright sun or in a cloudy afternoon. This is perfectly normal in regular speech. It doesn't mean that they traveled to the sun and are sitting on its surface!
There you go..you directly answered my question "how can it be reveled IN the MOON of Ramadan." Stop making excuses and baseless accusations like you always do.
Anyways, ayman, just a question
what sounds more logical to you
- The Quran was revelaed IN THE MONTH OF RAMDAN
or - The Quran was revealed IN THE MOON OF SCORCHING HEAT?
Put the whole Ramadan issue aside - which one sounds more logical to you language-wise?
From submission.org/fasting-bible.html
Jeremiah 366. "Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the Lord in the ears of the people in the Lord's house upon the fasting day and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities." Here we find a definite practice of fasting. The following verses will show that this is not just a day of fasting, but precisely a month. More detail on this day of fasting is given in verse nine "And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the Lord to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem." This is not a special fast proclaimed by a religious ruler, because this particular king was wicked. Nevertheless, he did follow the formality of what was practiced the month of fasting. The time given for this fasting is stated to be the ninth month.
The season of the fast in this particular year, thought by many scholars to be 604 B.C., is stated to be in the winter. Jeremiah 3622, "Now the king sat in the winter house in the ninth month and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him." Now the present Jewish calendar adds a thirteenth month from time to time to match the solar year, so that the ninth month of the civil year (used in the dates of kings' reigns) falls in May or June, summer in Palestine. If we project the lunar calendar presently used in the Middle East back in history, we find that the ninth month falls in November of the year 604 B.C. It appears that during Bible times a purely lunar calendar was used, and the ninth month was a month of fasting.
Indeed, God did not lie when he said
2183 O you who acknowledge, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you that perhaps you may be righteous/aware.
Ayman, do you have any evidence of monotheists having fasted after witnessing the "moon of scorching heat"?? Do you have ANY evidence? I showed you my evidence for the real Ramadan - not the fabricated, one-third "Ramadan" of yours. Are you still going to reject the real Ramadan, and not fast for a full month - not just your lousy 10 days?
Peace
- The Quran was revelaed IN THE MONTH OF RAMDAN
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Peace Ayman, and everyone,
I know the game A-team are playing as I am a lawyer in the west so I know how the system of exhaustion works. But to help other let me explain; when you make a complaint you need to go through the grievance procedure from first stage to last and the replies you get are long but of no substance. Still you have to exhaust the departments and often, when someone at the top of the ladder is involved, the complaint fails to get sorted pr
Then you must take the complaint to the regulatory body and if the regulatory body sides with the culprit they first of all work on delay tactics being slow to reply. Often you will have to send them a reminder and after that they ask you the same old questions all over and reply to your very valid argument with long letters never answering or addressing your grievance. (
Again you have to draw their attention to the relevant points and then they ignore points and you are back to the same old arguments, at times each letter referring to each point on each line raised. And the process goes on and on until it goes to the top and the top executive may look with sympathy at your file and ask special investigators to look into it who again ask you the same old questions designed only to delay and exhaust. brickwall (I hope now everyone understands why > lawyers charge hefty fees)Ayman you are guilty of that same old tricks and long lecturing and none of us needs that. You did bring lots of valid arguments last year and we proved you wrong. Last year I genuinely thought you were sincere in your search for truth but, after giving all the evidence from the Quran and Language I was surprised to see no change in the views of you or your cronies. This confirmed to me that you are not in search of the truth but on a mission to deconstruct our Ramadan,
Everyone can see for themselves that last Ramadan, from page 8 to 28 of this thread how genuine I was hoping to learn and exchange knowledge but sadly it seems you people have a hidden agenda. You know very well that most in this forum are disgusted with hadith based teaching and I don?t blame them for hating the mullah culture, but to take advantage of this situation to promote your own warped version is even worse.
Now I will paste below references from your posts and prove to everyone that you do nothing but lecture and repeat yourself and whenever you do that I will go back to the thread and dig out your previous posts even if it means ignoring rest of my work.Peace Farida and everyone who is having a panic attack as a result of the indisputable fact that their traditional calendar is 100% arbitrary,
Me and "my cronies" used to be in the same exact place as you. A few years ago I used to believe in the arbitrary sectarian Ramadan that has ZERO basis in the great reading exactly like you do. No matter what the result is, trying to determine the timing purely based on the great reading is better than ignoring the great reading and mindlessly following the chain of tradition. People who try to follow the truth in the great reading will always have the higher moral and logical ground over those who blindly follow arbitrary and false manmade traditions. This might seem like arrogance to you but it is because you have no real faith in your so-called Ramadan and this explains all the anger and inferiority complexes that you demonstrated on this thread. All that you proved is that your house is made of cards and this is why you get so mad when anyone shakes it.
AymanYou have given similar lecture in this thread I give you page numbers for your convenience Page 16 Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer Reply #234 on September 08, 2008, 042443 AM ?
Exactly, this is what the verse says. We have been taught otherwise by the Mullahs. Since I was in elementary school we were told that ......... Its a long similar lecture. Check it and let me know if I am wrong &There are 84 pages on this thread of evidences and sources. Despite all the noise you are making, you have not provided even one valid or invalid argument.
Lets see your last yrs post first
[b For etymology note here your blabbling on Page 16 and
Of course the etymology of "shahr ramadan" points to the red moon after the summer solstice.... page 81 Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer Reply #234 on September 08, 2008, 042443 AM ?
Now See My Month Etymology below pg 81
Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #1213 on August 27, 2009, 042925 PM ?
Month Etymology Since Urdu is nearest to Arabic culturally so let me start with Urdu "Mahina", also called "Mah" and moon too is called "Mah" (Mahjabeen) in Swedish, the word for month is M?nad (from M?ne=moon) in Icelandic M?nu? (from M?ni=moon) and, as pointed out in my earlier post, in
Middle English < Old English mna? < Proto-Germanic *mn?- < Proto-Indo-European *me(n)ses- (moon, month), probably from PIE base *m?- (to measure), referring to the moon?s phases as the measure of time. Cognate with moon.
? Cognates include Ancient Greek (mn), Armenian (amis), German Monat, Old High German mnd, Middle High German mnt, Old Irish m?, and Old Slavic(msncĭ. http//en.wiktionary.org/wiki/monthAll you have done is be a cheerleader for Guest or Progressive1993 or anyone who comes along repeating the same old stale arguments for the sectarian arbitrary timing that we all know (remember we all have been there and done that). At least those people tried and made an effort even if they were unsuccessful and their own arguments turned against them.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that and try to fool others evey one can check here what we said
Up to page 28 you had several post form belH Anwar Nun but you ignore themn and Nun, Pseudo, EId, or Rex gave you scores of picture as evidence including that of the crescent But you kept saying in your response where the picture of the crescent I would like everyone to see for themselves here on page 19 this several post including this one Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #273 on September 10, 2008, 044131 PM ?
The new moon waxing crescent (D in DOC) stands out as does waning crescent C...but you keep coming back with accusation that he did not supply you with the picture ..dont hide the truth
I summed up my evidence from the Qur?an on page 19 in response to your theory the root question Hot/Ramadan or The Month of Ramadan. I would suggest we all do our own verification by looking into.91-5 and 81Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #277 on September 10, 2008, 094900 PM ?You started ignoring my post see page 19 Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #284 on September 11, 2008, 123243 AM ?When you saw that I bowed out you came back with same old rhetoric so I came back with further evidence on page 20 Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer ? Reply #298 on September 11, 2008, 090417 PM ?
You summed up yet again on here page 22 Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #327 on September 13, 2008, 043310 AM ?Samia came to support you and of course truthseeker11 with his duel ID, not to forget Umm Tariq yay
On page 25
Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #379 on September 15, 2008, 094133 PM ?
And yours is not a simple explanation, not even logically sound I paste here what I wrote earlier
as Nun says in his last post "Time is continuous " so the event continued from then onward and has been revolving around the globe so everyone can witness that night as it falls in their region. This is the simple logic and this is the truth for those who reflectHere you go again Quote
I think that everyone who doesn't have an inflated ego knows that the traditional timing has ZERO support in the great reading and This is fine but until a better understanding is found, we should follow the best available understanding at this stage and which keeps getting better and more confirmed (see 3918).And I provided you with all the evidence in my post to AW.. see below
Quote from farida on September 09, 2008, 092227 PMFinger prints, DNA sample from your skin can bear witness and are used in this life Now!
This is how i summed up
Quote from farida on September 09, 2008, 092227 PM
Salaam Anthony and everyone,Indeed!! As I understand from the verse above, there is no undue expectations on the physically impaired and, performing within their capacity will earn them a reward on par with that of the able.
However the argument was ?how can one witness a month?? so it must, here, imply the scorching moon, "shahr ramadan".
As we learn from verses 4120, 21, 22, it is confirmed that the skin is capable of witnessing and will testify.
One can witness a month simply by being present in that month, as the skin is in touch with the atoms/molecules , water vapor mixture of gases, temperature etc., present at such a time. In this world one?s finger prints and DNA can also testify against a person, but just imagine a blind one saying to God, on the Day of Judgement, ?I did not witness the month of Ramadan?. His skin will then speak out against him.b.? those amongst you who witnessed?? exclude only those who are mentally incapacitated.
These verses also made me realise that the deaf, the dumb and the blind are not excluded from testifying.
How does a deaf or dumb person bear witness?
By the use of eyes and skin, which would include using sign language, as well as employing writing tools. In both cases the skin is used to bear witness. Similarly a deaf person, capable of speaking, may use his sight and his lips/skin .
A blind person can use the skin (to feel with), along with the ears to witness and, regarding the month of Ramadan, a blind person has witnessed it simply by being present in his body, in that month .This, in my opinion, is conclusive evidence, but I would welcome any input from others.
I hope we can now look into a timing device, using the sun and the moon, as a next step forward
Whether you like it or not, the fact that your Ramadan is 100% arbitrary and is not based on the great reading is true and you can?t prove otherwise. As for lies, there are plenty of examples. For example, those desperately trying to save the traditional timing on this thread have argued using 2189, which talks about the ?crescents? being used as a timing device for the ?hajj?, but they are lying because their arbitrary timing for ?hajj? completely disregards the crescent and instead your pagan ?hajj? starts on the 8th of Dhu Al-Hija and not with any crescent and ends on the 13th of Dhu Al-Hija and not with any crescent. On the other hand, the timing that I found based on the great reading ends the ?hajj? with the crescent. Remember what I said about your house being a house of cards. I would suggest that you try to solidify your house and make a solid foundation for it before worrying about what others think. Start with something simple like 2189 that everyone agrees on and try to time your ?hajj? accordingly
.You can see duplicate of your this lecture hereRe Hot/"ramadan" Answer page 14 For today?s identical reply
? Reply #201 on September 06, 2008, 025412 AMThere is no difference between what you are saying and what Hadithists say. You might as well dip some fresh flies in your food and drink some warm Camel urine to cure all your ills. Instead of following the message, you fanaticize that you are following the messenger when you are in fact following your misguided forefathers. Your chain is tied around your neck.
This is what I consider below my standard and your too I hope you can see. nope
Indeed. This is why you are so upset.
Look in your above quote and see who is upset yes
This is also why many people like me who used to follow the traditional timing have disregarded falsehood and are now following the timing according to the great reading. On the other hand, you have not convinced anyone to go back to following the 100% baseless and arbitrary traditional timing.
You can see all this ranting along with TS11 joined you pg 27 to further repeat and support you with his duel ID and my responses
Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #402 on September 16, 2008, 082623 PM ?
Peace faridaRe Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #373 on September 15, 2008, 062405 PM ?
Peace Farida,
Quote from faridaTo make it easy for you go to page 28 there lot of evidence given by me check it now and 29 pg 30 31 and 32 this replay
Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #405 on September 16, 2008, 092856 PM ?I repeat again O0
I think you are completely exhausted and "stuck in paralysis" after working on your Summer Solstice Scorching Full Moon Theory and could not contribute further but No worries just look at all the brilliant minds on free-minds and outside free-mind I'm sure the best calculations will be reached in due time.
peace
Ps Long search so if any mistakes, please do point out.This thread is a black hole. Just link me to your killer post.
At your service see above ;D
peace
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Peace Farida,
I know the game A-team are playing as I am a lawyer in the west so I know how the system of exhaustion works....
Judging from your long but useless post that fails to bring any evidence, you must be a really lousy lawyer. Please show any real evidence that your Ramadan is based on the great reading and is not 100% arbitrary. If Ramadan was your client, he would have fried by now elektro )
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Guest,
As a side note, we want Ayman to talk/write as much as possible. Because every time he write he contradicts a fact or his previous writing. Even a child will detect his shortcomings. And we find people (mature?) following him. How sad is that? Ayman, please don't stop writing, we look forward to your contradictory statements. It makes my day. Thank you.
Listen Guest, you have already demonstrated that you ignore even the basics (for example that the solar year is the interval between solstices) so instead of parading your ignorance on the forum and focusing on me, please answer this ONE question
Free-Minds Translation
2189. They ask you regarding the crescent moons, say ?They are a timing mechanism for the people as well as for the Pilgrimage.? And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whomever is righteous and come to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed.Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons to time the "hajj".
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman,
Quote from Ayman, Aug 2009 "....the first full-moon after the summer solstice will always occur within 1-29 days after the summer solstice."
Quote from Ayman, Nov 20, 2004, 35830 PM "The full-moon of scorching heat would be 0-30 days after that."
First you say 0-30 days, now you say 1-29 days. Do you even realize that this is a contradiction. You have so many of them that you lost count of it. Any speech that comes out of your mouth is a contradiction. You are so good at it. Therefore, I am awarding the Ph.D degree to you for generating the most contradictions in a small article. You are the only winner of such certificate.
Quote from Ayman "Thanks once again for helping further discredit the traditional timing and for proving that the timing based on the great reading is best."
Perhaps you didn't get the message, I was discrediting Ayman solstice timining system. One interval has about 354 days and other interval has about 383 days. Then you tried to discount the 13th moon to maintain sanity.
There is no traditional timing but there is such thing as Ayman's timing system where you haphazardly integrated two of God's system in violation of Quranic verses which say that the sun and the moon not to catch each other. You are trying catch them and bring them together. In doing so, you have produced an inconsistent timing system. You are the master compromiser, like the one who tried to bring the idolatry and monotheistic religion together or the one who follows two different sources. People like you tried to divert Prophet Muhammad but failed
1773 - They almost diverted you from the revelations we have given you. They wanted you to fabricate something else, in order to consider you a friend.
1774 - If it were not that we strengthened you, you almost leaned towards them just a little bit.
Our timing system is based on Quranic verse 105 - "He is the One who rendered the sun radiant, and the moon a light, and He designed its phases that you may learn to count the years and to calculate. GOD did not create all this, except for a specific purpose. He explains the revelations for people who know." We use moon because it has phases to count number of years unlike the sun. Therefore, Our system is consistent with God's commandment.
Quote from Ayman "It will thus always be in the same season and will never haphazardly move within the year."
Oh, now you are calling the God a haphazard designer of lunar system. How low can you get.
Quote from Ayman "The interval between summer solstices by definition is the number of days between solstices. So your calculation is irrelevant."
There is nothing wrong with the summer solstice as we know it, but your sun/moon solstice is totally screwed-up.
Quote from Ayman "What fraction? Where did I use a fraction? You are a liar because I never used a fraction and I always count exactly 12 full-moons every single year."
The fraction associated with the solar cycle 365.2xxx; you are ignoring it.
Quote from Ayman "Where did I say anything about an 8 year cycle or any number of years cycle? You are lying and building a strawman because you are clearly desperate."
This the system you produced. You don't even know your own silly creation. Your system begets 8 years cycle.
Quote from Ayman "Your false question simply demonstrates your ignorance of the indisputable fact that by definition the solar cycle is the interval between solstices."
This definition does not apply to Ayman solstice. You have a screwed-up timing system
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2185 Shahr ramadan, in which the Qur?an was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month...
Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous (in a bad or good sense), hire/contract for a month, stay a month, month old, month, new moon, moon, full moon, any evil thing that exposes its author to disgrace, a vice/fault or the like, big & bulky, reputable/eminent.
Source http//www.studyquran.co.uk/19_SH.htm
Ra-Miim-Dad = to be burning, heat, be blasted by the sun. ramaDda - to sharpen (a spear) between stones, roast, pasture on a burning ground, burn. ramDda - scorching heat, burning hot (ground). ramadzan - the ninth month of Islamic calendar, the month of fast.
Source http//www.studyquran.co.uk/17_RA.htm
I don't get why some people so DESPERATELY want to believe in the "Islamic calendar". It's the dumbest calendar ever because it serves absolutely no practical purpose. The seasons occur in different months of the "Islamic calendar" over just a few years. Also, it's next to impossible to know the precise date when a month of the "Islamic calendar" starts. Wouldn't an infinitely wise god would give us better ways of determining times of year? Understanding shahr ramadan as the Flower Moon is much, much more sensible because the Flower Moon is obvious, it's occurrence is independent of the decisions that were taken by previous generations and there's no evidence that the "Islamic calendar" was instituted by the god. Only those who secretly think the god is stupid can believe that the god instituted the "Islamic calendar" and therefore those who believe It did will probably go to Hell.
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Peace Farida,
Judging from your long but useless post that fails to bring any evidence, you must be a really lousy lawyer. Please show any real evidence that your Ramadan is based on the great reading and is not 100% arbitrary. If Ramadan was your client, he would have fried by now elektro )
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman,
Thank you, "the Judge",, as always but at least your post is short and precise. As for me being a lousy lawyer. yes
peace
3510 The one whose evil work is adorned and he sees it as being good. God thus misguides whom he wills, and He guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing. -
Peace Guest
Our timing system is based on Quranic verse 105 - "He is the One who rendered the sun radiant, and the moon a light, and He designed its phases that you may learn to count the years and to calculate. GOD did not create all this, except for a specific purpose. He explains the revelations for people who know." We use moon because it has phases to count number of years unlike the sun. Therefore, Our system is consistent with God's commandment.
Once again you are trying to use a twisted Translation to prove your (false claims).
Rachad khalifa's translation is not authorized by god.Please read the arabic version wa-qaddara-hu-manazila = and-measured/designed-IT-(into) phases. Notice that the "hu" refers to the moon itself.
you will accuse me of adding the ''into'' in my translation, but as everyone knows, in that case (and many others) the "into" is usesless in arabic .
Ex wa-qaddara-hu-manazila is the same as wa-qaddara-hu-ila(into)-manazilin. But because the first form is untranslatable, we use the "into".The reverse translation of "your and RK's 105", should be wa-qaddara-manazila-hu. (and-measured/designed-its-phases.) Notice that unlike the original arabic, the "hu" here refers to the phases of the moon, not the moon itself.
And that's clear corruption of the quran (unless the one in everyone's hands is false, and you, lucky you, have the only genuine version).So once you understand this, i'll go back to my favorite example the knife AND the fork with 4 spears, to cut AND pick the meat. muscle
Salam,
P.S wave your hand and say "hello" to every arabic speaking person who are right now laughing at you.
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So it all boils down to this...
Is the year a period of 12 lunar cycles or a run through the seasons?
Is Ramadan moving through the seasons or is the seasons moving through Ramadan?
And why is Ramadan that particular lunar cycle? What is the definition of that particular cycle?
Peace.
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Don't be rude or I will elektro
Right before I voodoo
2185 Shahr ramadan, in which the Qur?an was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month...
Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous (in a bad or good sense), hire/contract for a month, stay a month, month old, month, new moon, moon, full moon, any evil thing that exposes its author to disgrace, a vice/fault or the like, big & bulky, reputable/eminent.
Source http//www.studyquran.co.uk/19_SH.htm
Ra-Miim-Dad = to be burning, heat, be blasted by the sun. ramaDda - to sharpen (a spear) between stones, roast, pasture on a burning ground, burn. ramDda - scorching heat, burning hot (ground). ramadzan - the ninth month of Islamic calendar, the month of fast.
Source http//www.studyquran.co.uk/17_RA.htm
I don't get why some people so DESPERATELY want to believe in the "Islamic calendar". It's the dumbest calendar ever because it serves absolutely no practical purpose. The seasons occur in different months of the "Islamic calendar" over just a few years. Also, it's next to impossible to know the precise date when a month of the "Islamic calendar" starts. Wouldn't an infinitely wise god would give us better ways of determining times of year? Understanding shahr ramadan as the Flower Moon is much, much more sensible because the Flower Moon is obvious, it's occurrence is independent of the decisions that were taken by previous generations and there's no evidence that the "Islamic calendar" was instituted by the god. Only those who secretly think the god is stupid can believe that the god instituted the "Islamic calendar" and therefore those who believe It did will probably go to Hell.
Agree with this except for the last statement. What the hell says people who believe in the traditional ramadan will go to hell?
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Meteora,
The traditional understanding of ramadan is dumb and to attribute something dumb to the god is to imply that the god is dumb, which is irrational and untrue. It is the god's law that people who don't rid their minds of irrationality and falsehood will end up in Hell.
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Right before I voodoo
jedi I will do it before you do!
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2185 Shahr ramadan, in which the Qur?an was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month...
Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous (in a bad or good sense), hire/contract for a month, stay a month, month old, month, new moon, moon, full moon, any evil thing that exposes its author to disgrace, a vice/fault or the like, big & bulky, reputable/eminent.
Source http//www.studyquran.co.uk/19_SH.htm
Ra-Miim-Dad = to be burning, heat, be blasted by the sun. ramaDda - to sharpen (a spear) between stones, roast, pasture on a burning ground, burn. ramDda - scorching heat, burning hot (ground). ramadzan - the ninth month of Islamic calendar, the month of fast.
Source http//www.studyquran.co.uk/17_RA.htm
I don't get why some people so DESPERATELY want to believe in the "Islamic calendar".
Peace Supernaut,
You are talking of the calendar adopted by 'Umar ibn al-Khattab as he in his wisdom felt it necessary to have a calendar so as to fix the dates.
For the Quranic approach understand reference A & B below
A-936. The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record......
Now if you seriously want to seek the truth then go back to Rex?s post on page 80? Reply #1185 on August 25, 2009, 055646 AM ?
In response to point 4 quickduck Now pay attention to a very important question raised by Rex Why forbidden to kill an animal on June 22 in one year and OK to kill same animal until July 20 in a different year?He again raised that question to Ayman here page 81 ? Reply #1202 on August 26, 2009, 042940 AM
Again, why forbidden on June 22 one year and OK to kill the animal until July 20 in a different year?Both ignored this very valid Question which is the core as described in 937.
B- 937 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; , thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people
It's the dumbest calendar ever because it serves absolutely no practical purpose. The seasons occur in different months of the "Islamic calendar" over just a few years. Also, it's next to impossible to know the precise date when a month of the "Islamic calendar" starts. Wouldn't an infinitely wise god would give us better ways of determining times of year?
What you?re talking of now is your view/opinion and I as a lawyer should ignore it but I have time, as long as you don?t repeat your questions, or else be ready to pay my fee > .
I can see that you use http//www.studyquran.co.uk so it may add to everyone?s knowledge if you study the two terms for years used in the Qur?an and share this knowledge with us. I give you a few examples below
The year 3am( ا is used for carrying out our obligations to God, and the term Seeneen ( ) is also year especially in connection with land,
526 Land be out of reach 40 yrs
1247,48, year of draught and harvesting ,
105 The sun and the moon are both used when referring to Sineen
1712 where for daily seeking bounty from land sineen is used
926 wish to live life thousand seeneen,So clearly there are two types of years in the Quran.
The calendar you or Meteora are referring to is the official calendar, adopted by 'Umar ibn al-Khattab to fix the dates. This did NOT disturb the month of fasting.(just as the ?sunni? in my blue lagoon scenario see?s Ramadan as the 12th month, of his migration yet he fast on same occasion as the rest whose calendar see this month as the 9th)
Understanding shahr ramadan as the Flower Moon is much, much more sensible because the Flower Moon is obvious, it's occurrence is independent of the decisions that were taken by previous generations
Good of you to select ?the Flower moon ?from the Wikipedia collection since what, in English, is called the full moon is actually half of the moon cycle.
and there's no evidence that the "Islamic calendar" was instituted by the god. Only those who secretly think the god is stupid can believe that the god instituted the "Islamic calendar" and therefore those who believe It did will probably go to Hell.
We do not fast according to your ?stupid" Islamic calendar, we fast according to the cycle started by the prophet per the event when the Qur?an was revealed to him, and he surly knew more than your dictionaries if it was during burning, heat/ blasted by the sun. yes
As ?guest? pointed out on page 80 ? Reply #1192 on August 25, 2009, 070849 PM ? The Quran says Prophet Muhammad was given wisdom. Nowhere in the Quran have we found that Ayman was given wisdom. On the contrary the Quran warns us about people like you who twist God?s words hmm
So Alhumdullilah, despite all failed attempts to knock unconscious true Muslims in order to make re-arrangements, the cycle established by the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is rock solid and is going on till this day without any discontinued intercalation or frozen commutation. hail
peace
Ps An example of Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous The announcement (Cards) proud parents convey about the birth of their infant... sun -
Peace Ayman
Quote from Ayman ?(for example that the solar year is the interval between solstices)?
Solar year can be defined between two March equinoxes, between two June solstices, between September equinoxes, and between two December solstices.
The issue at hand is not the solar year but your convoluted solar/lunar timing system. You have produced a timing system that is neither solar nor lunar. Yet you claim that it in synch with 365.2xx. I have exposed the truth about your timing system (354/383 days). If it is strictly solar or strictly lunar timing system then you (Ayman) is irrelevant. You (Ayman) come into picture because of integrated single solar/lunar timing system.
Now, please refute the below statement and tell us how primitive people determined the summer solstice accurately.
Unlike the equinox, the solstice time is not easy to determine. The changes in Solar declination become smaller as the sun gets closer to its maximum/minimum declination. The days before and after the solstice, the declination speed is less than 30 arcseconds/day which is less than 1/60th of the angular size of the sun, or the equivalent to just 2 seconds of right ascension.
This difference is hardly detectable with indirect viewing based devices like sextant equipped with a vernier, and impossible with more traditional tools like a gnomon or an astrolabe. It is also hard to detect the changes on sunrise/sunset azimuth due to the atmospheric refraction changes. Those accuracy issues render impossible to determine the solstice day based on observations made within the 3 (or even 5) days surrounding the solstice, without the use of more complex tools.
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Ayman...
There is no more escaping with your childish comments above.
I said
Quote from progressive1993 on Yesterday at 050409 PM
Also, another question for ayman
How can the Quran have been sent down IN a moon?
Just to recap, it actually says "in".. too bad, eh?
2185 The month of Ramadan, is the month in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion...
2185 Shahru ramadana allatheeonzila feehi alqur-anu hudan lilnnasiwabayyinatin mina alhuda waalfurqanThen you said
It is the same as when someone tells you I am sitting in the scorching full moon or in a bright sun or in a cloudy afternoon. This is perfectly normal in regular speech. It doesn't mean that they traveled to the sun and are sitting on its surface!
There you go..you directly answered my question "how can it be reveled IN the MOON of Ramadan." Stop making excuses and baseless accusations like you always do.
Anyways, ayman, just a question
what sounds more logical to you
- The Quran was revelaed IN THE MONTH OF RAMDAN
or - The Quran was revealed IN THE MOON OF SCORCHING HEAT?
Put the whole Ramadan issue aside - which one sounds more logical to you language-wise?
From submission.org/fasting-bible.html
Jeremiah 366. "Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the Lord in the ears of the people in the Lord's house upon the fasting day and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities." Here we find a definite practice of fasting. The following verses will show that this is not just a day of fasting, but precisely a month. More detail on this day of fasting is given in verse nine "And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the Lord to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem." This is not a special fast proclaimed by a religious ruler, because this particular king was wicked. Nevertheless, he did follow the formality of what was practiced the month of fasting. The time given for this fasting is stated to be the ninth month.
The season of the fast in this particular year, thought by many scholars to be 604 B.C., is stated to be in the winter. Jeremiah 3622, "Now the king sat in the winter house in the ninth month and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him." Now the present Jewish calendar adds a thirteenth month from time to time to match the solar year, so that the ninth month of the civil year (used in the dates of kings' reigns) falls in May or June, summer in Palestine. If we project the lunar calendar presently used in the Middle East back in history, we find that the ninth month falls in November of the year 604 B.C. It appears that during Bible times a purely lunar calendar was used, and the ninth month was a month of fasting.
Indeed, God did not lie when he said
2183 O you who acknowledge, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you that perhaps you may be righteous/aware.
Ayman, do you have any evidence of monotheists having fasted after witnessing the "moon of scorching heat"?? Do you have ANY evidence? I showed you my evidence for the real Ramadan - not the fabricated, one-third "Ramadan" of yours. Are you still going to reject the real Ramadan, and not fast for a full month - not just your lousy 10 days?
Your response is awaited.
Peace,
have a nice Ramadan. - The Quran was revelaed IN THE MONTH OF RAMDAN
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Meteora,
The traditional understanding of ramadan is dumb and to attribute something dumb to the god is to imply that the god is dumb, which is irrational and untrue. It is the god's law that people who don't rid their minds of irrationality and falsehood will end up in Hell.
What if they humbly believe it's not dumb? What if they're not implying that God is dumb?
Point is God won't trick. Yes surely those who think God is dumb (like those dumb enough that they thought ones with enough knowledge of the Quran will think the ahadith are God-and-messenger-supported) are condemned i.e. enemies of the prophet.
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2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast as those before you, it could be that you are fearful and obedient.
2184 A designated term; so whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number at other times; and as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor, and whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him, and it is best that you fast, if you are able.
2185 The Quran was sent down in the month of Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between Right and Wronge. So one should fast the month, whoever of you witnesses it. And whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number on other days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the term, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.