Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace,
As Duck concurred, this period is named by God as the ARABIC WORD SHAHAR; not only in the Quran, but also in the Bible and Old Testament.
God gave the ONE Sun Cycle period the name "Yhom"--Day, The Moon Cycle period (29 to 30 days) the name "Shahar"--Month, and the 12 Moon Cycle Periods "Sana"--Year.
As you can see the Sun and the Moon have to be used to calculate the time periods, which can not be counted unless you use the Sun and the Moon Together, as per 10-5 and 17-12 instructions.Peace
He never said that God has named this period as shahar in quran, he said that we , the mortals have started to call this period ,as shahar too. Or to clarify , "shahar as month" is an evolved meaning in Arabic, and over a period of time has dominated the original meaning to an extent that the divine meaning has become extinct. Thanks to "Ayman and cronies "that they are trying to revive the original meanings after finding hints from the Quran.
Ok , my question is, why has not God named this period?
siki
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Peace all
The Sign of the Year is the Sun -
The Sign of the Month is the Full Moon -Some here remind me of the people of Bani Israeel in the 2nd Chapter of the Quran asking for more and more details
to Moses about the Calf they were asked to sacrifice.Also accusing others that they are followers of Ayman is slander, one follows the truth, and no one apart from Allah has
monopoly over it. In my view, all humans are amateurs.If you read ayat 105, the Sun is mentioned first, so it has higher emphasis than the moon, the order that Allah enunciate
his Signs is very important, and show level of importance as well as chronology...
The more we elaborate about this matter, the more I get convinced about it...Now talking about following Ayman, I do not, and the proof of the pudding is that I disagree with his on the Jinn cosmogony theory,
and with the fact of the absence of a geographical position of the kaaba, and that the kaaba is a base, as opposed to
a natural protruding rock situated in Jerusalem, and that Masjid Al Aqsa referred to in the Quran is not on Earth, etc.Salam
Noble
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Peace all
The Sign of the Year is the Sun -
The Sign of the Month is the Full Moon -Some here remind me of the people of Bani Israeel in the 2nd Chapter of the Quran asking for more and more details
to Moses about the Calf they were asked to sacrifice.Also accusing others that they are followers of Ayman is slander, one follows the truth, and no one apart from Allah has
monopoly over it. In my view, all humans are amateurs.If you read ayat 105, the Sun is mentioned first, so it has higher emphasis than the moon, the order that Allah enunciate
his Signs is very important, and show level of importance as well as chronology...
The more we elaborate about this matter, the more I get convinced about it...Now talking about following Ayman, I do not, and the proof of the pudding is that I disagree with his on the Jinn cosmogony theory,
and with the fact of the absence of a geographical position of the kaaba, and that the kaaba is a base, as opposed to
a natural protruding rock situated in Jerusalem, and that Masjid Al Aqsa referred to in the Quran is not on Earth, etc.Salam
Noble
+1
I repeat I don't follow Ayman. I follow what I am convinced of. i Use my reason/brain to figure out...
Ayman did a very good job on the Ramadan issue. if a had to give him a (logical/quranic) mark, it will be 9/10. Sectarian Ramadan (logical/quranic) Mark is 1/10.. that's it !!!
Ayman's Ramadan theory is so far his best work , although the most controversial one.Salam
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Peace,
We can?t count the days and use lunar months as a marker because 1712 doesn?t mention the moon at all.
1712 doesn't mention SUN either. Why aren't you highlighting this fact like you do for the moon. It doesn't talk about long day or short night, it simply says we rendered the night and the day two signs. The fact is day and night is caused by earth spin. Therefore, if the earth did not spin then half of it will be lighted and other half will remain dark all the time. We use night and day to calculated fractions of lunar month. And that is the proper use. Twelve months gives us one lunar year. The new moon serve as the beginning marker and it needs sunlight to perform this job. You are making hadith when you connect the night and day to the sun and use it to satisfy your imagination. Remember there is no sun in 1712. You are beating around the bush to make your point.
Also, there is nothing inherent in a lunar month that marks the year. One can make a lunar calendar with a year consisting of 10, 11, 13, 14, or 1000 lunar months,
The year is marked by 12 months = 1 year (lunar that is). As for the claim that ?One can make a lunar calendar with a year consisting of 10, 11, 13, 14, or 1000 lunar months...?, a disbeliever would do this kind of thing. A believer will use 12 months per 936.
1017 - Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies about GOD, or rejects His revelations. Certainly, the transgressors never succeed.
1019 - The people used to be one congregation, then they disputed. If it were not for a predetermined word from your Lord, they would have been judged immediately regarding their disputes.
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He never said that God has named this period as shahar in quran, he said that we , the mortals have started to call this period ,as shahar too. Or to clarify , "shahar as month" is an evolved meaning in Arabic, and over a period of time has dominated the original meaning to an extent that the divine meaning has become extinct. Thanks to "Ayman and cronies "that they are trying to revive the original meanings after finding hints from the Quran.
Ok , my question is, why has not God named this period?
siki
If you think so, can you answer it yourself; in other words, if Shahar is not the Authentic Arabic Word for Month, what is the One Authentic Word?
If you Search All the Arabic Dictionaries you will Find one Word--Shahar
I dare you, Ayman, and any one to Come with another Word but Shahar.
As far as the "Full Moon" in Arabic Words, please search all the Dictionaries and you will Find Many Authentic Arabic Words, of which Non is Shahar.Shahar = Full Moon is not a well-established nor a Valid Translation as Shahar= Month; The later has overwhelming evidences that can not be denied except by the Hypocrites--the ones who follow the non-well-established meaning to cancel out the well-established ones (3-7)
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Peace
You mean the one approved by the majority.
Since when approving with the majority made one a hypocrite, according to this definition all Prophets were hypocrites.
This is pathetic, lame, irrational, and whimsical reasoning.
LA TAFQAHUNA SHAIAH... YAWAILATA ALAIKUM... -
Peace Belal,
WHAT IS THE ARABIC WORD THAT IS EQUAL TO THE ENGLISH WORD MONTH
I dare you, Ayman, and any one to Come with another Word but Shahar.
It depends on which Arabic you are talking about. Are you talking about Pre-Islamic Arabic or Modern Arabic? I hope that you know that there is a difference.
In the case of the great reading, we are only concerned with Pre-Islamic Arabic. In Pre-Islamic Arabic, the Arabic word for month was ?yarkh? in Northern Arabian dialects and ?warkh? in Southern and Central Arabian dialects. On the other hand, ?shahr? was never used to mean ?month?. This is confirmed by the physical evidence of Pre-Islamic inscriptions
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Southern/Central Arabian dialect (see ?warkh? used to mean month)
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean.htm -
Northern Arabian dialect (see ?yarkh? used to mean month)
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/raqush.html
Also, please note that none of the Pre-Islamic inscriptions mention any of the sectarian months? names.
wow Can you teach us the correct meaning PLEASE, but after answering the above question as duck did.
Quickduck already provided you with the meaning and their meaning has nothing to do with the week. Now your turn please provide evidence from the great reading that the week is 7 days.
Ayman, after answering my BIG Question, can you also teach us the true meaning of 5-95, specially these ARABIC WORDS
Thank you for your effort in educating us ;D
First, do you agree that ?kaaba? doesn?t mean a stone cube?
Peace,
Ayman
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Quote from progressive1993 on September 09, 2009, 042633 PM
my 'understand/not understand/need clarification' lists
(Note for the reader these are only things I understand/dont understand from Ayman's article - they dont necessarily represent my own position).
First off, here are the things I understand- 'shahr Ramadan' = 'full moon of scorching heat'
- this full moon appears after the summer solstice
- the Quran was sent down during the night appearance of this full moon (laylatul qadr)
- the year is solar we should count 12 full moons in each of them, hence the calendar is luni-solar
- the crescents help us for the timing of the hajj, but also the fast, since it takes 10 days for the moon to go from its full moon phase into its crescent phase - the fasting and the hajj both take 10 days each.
- as exaplained above, the fasting is for 'ayyaman madoodatin', which means 'few days'. As per a hint from 7142, one can conclude that fasting is for 10 days.
- the count of the full moons in a year is 12. Although 13 might appear in some years, they shall not be counted, as per the command in 936.
Thank you for your excellent summary. You actually did a much better job than me in explaining in better and simpler terms.
progressive1993 omitted the most important purpose of Ayman's article i.e. his timing system will produce an error less than 1 day. Instead of correcting this error Ayman applaud progressive1993 for an excellent summary of his article. Does he not know that the most important part of his theory is missing from the summary. Maybe he doesn't want to bring it up because he knows that it produces an error of 30 days or more.
Here is Ayman's original quote "In the so-called Islamic calendar the start of Ramadan depends on the sighting of the new crescent moon. The sighting of the new crescent moon is not an easy task and only expert observers under optimal viewing conditions can see the new-moon crescent. Hence, the vast majority of people never sees the new-moon crescent and only sees the 1-2 day old crescent. This difficulty is a major reason for the annual dispute about the timing. What many people don't know is that the start of so-called Ramadan depends on a myriad of other factors other than the sighting of the new-moon crescent."
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Peace Guest,
I normally wouldn't reply to your antics, especially since they have been answered many times on this thread. I will give you this chance but if you can't understand this reply then it is useless to discuss with you.
1712 doesn't mention SUN either. Why aren't you highlighting this fact like you do for the moon. It doesn't talk about long day or short night, it simply says we rendered the night and the day two signs. The fact is day and night is caused by earth spin. Therefore, if the earth did not spin then half of it will be lighted and other half will remain dark all the time. We use night and day to calculated fractions of lunar month. And that is the proper use. Twelve months gives us one lunar year. The new moon serve as the beginning marker and it needs sunlight to perform this job. You are making hadith when you connect the night and day to the sun and use it to satisfy your imagination. Remember there is no sun in 1712. You are beating around the bush to make your point.
The day and night are determined by the sun and they have nothing to do with the moon.
The year is marked by 12 months = 1 year (lunar that is). As for the claim that ?One can make a lunar calendar with a year consisting of 10, 11, 13, 14, or 1000 lunar months...?, a disbeliever would do this kind of thing. A believer will use 12 months per 936.
1017 - Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies about GOD, or rejects His revelations. Certainly, the transgressors never succeed.
1019 - The people used to be one congregation, then they disputed. If it were not for a predetermined word from your Lord, they would have been judged immediately regarding their disputes.Tell this to yourself. Do you even understand what a count is? In order to count, you have to know the population that you are counting out of. Just recycling the names of the months every 12 months is not counting 12, especially since those names are meaningless anyway and so you could call those months anything. Therefore, the sectarians are now counting month # 17169 and haven?t stopped the counting at 12. If they took month 2 as month 1 then the present sectarian Ramadhan would have been month 17168 and they would be fasting next month. Because the sectarians haven?t stopped counting with 12 as ordered in 936 and instead kept counting, your present day month #17169 is tied to month 1 and can never be independent from it. So the sectarians have now been violating 936 for the past 17157 lunar months.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Belal,
It depends on which Arabic you are talking about. Are you talking about Pre-Islamic Arabic or Modern Arabic? I hope that you know that there is a difference.
In the case of the great reading, we are only concerned with Pre-Islamic Arabic. In Pre-Islamic Arabic, the Arabic word for month was ?yarkh? in Northern Arabian dialects and ?warkh? in Southern and Central Arabian dialects. On the other hand, ?shahr? was never used to mean ?month?. This is confirmed by the physical evidence of Pre-Islamic inscriptions
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Southern/Central Arabian dialect (see ?warkh? used to mean month)
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean.htm -
Northern Arabian dialect (see ?yarkh? used to mean month)
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/raqush.html
Also, please note that none of the Pre-Islamic inscriptions mention any of the sectarian months? names.
I could not find any reference to WARKH nor YARK in the links you provided.
Moreover, can you find if the word Shahar means Full Moon, and the Word Ramadan Means Scorching Moon in the Pre-Islamic Arabic. And once done, please share the results with us.Quickduck already provided you with the meaning and their meaning has nothing to do with the week. Now your turn please provide evidence from the great reading that the week is 7 days.
Duck still stumbling with the rest of my question--How many days are between two Sabet (Saturday)? A
First, do you agree that ?kaaba? doesn?t mean a stone cube?
I believe brother Layth has provided a clear defination to the word Kabba, which I believe is the most accurate, in his article.
Now, answer the question.
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Peace Ayman,
The day and night are determined by the sun and they have nothing to do with the moon.
The sun does not determine day or night. Its job is to generate and emit light, period. The earth makes day by presenting parts of itself to the sun. The part that is hidden from the sun in night. Likewise the part that moon exposes to the sun becomes day there. The moon reflect this sunlight towards us and lights part of the earth. So even at night we get sunlight, though not as strong as direct sunlight. How does sun determine the day and night? Is the sun flip-flopping its position back and forth between two sides of earth to give us night and day?
Please show us the word SUN in 1712.
Tell this to yourself. Do you even understand what a count is? In order to count, you have to know the population that you are counting out of. Just recycling the names of the months every 12 months is not counting 12, especially since those names are meaningless anyway and so you could call those months anything.
Don't tell me how to do counting using population. You have already demonstrated your ignorance by quoting the use of bathtub curve. I would have used the weibull distribution. Do you know why I would have chosen weibull instead of bathtub curve? I will save more discussion for latter.
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Peace Ayman,
The sun does not determine day or night. Its job is to generate and emit light, period. The earth makes day by presenting parts of itself to the sun. The part that is hidden from the sun in night. Likewise the part that moon exposes to the sun becomes day there. The moon reflect this sunlight towards us and lights part of the earth. So even at night we get sunlight, though not as strong as direct sunlight. How does sun determine the day and night? Is the sun flip-flopping its position back and forth between two sides of earth to give us night and day?There is no Quranic evidence for this neo-astronomy. In the Quran, the Sun moves and determines the day and night.
The phases of the moon comes from the fact that the Sun takes 24 hours to orbit the Earth while the moon takes 24 hr 50 minutes.
You either join us or die! P
I admit. offtopic
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Peace Belal,
I could not find any reference to WARKH nor YARK in the links you provided.
This is because you didn't read them carefully.
Read line (iii) 4th word and line (ix) 4th word in Abraha's inscription. (warkh)
Read the sixth line, second word in the Raqush inscription. (yarkh)Moreover, can you find if the word Shahar means Full Moon, and the Word Ramadan Means Scorching Moon in the Pre-Islamic Arabic. And once done, please share the results with us.
It looks like you were on "sabt"/rest through the 120 pages of this thread. Instead of lazily asking to be spoonfed the answers, read the thread properly and make an effort to look in Classical Arabic dictionaries and you will see that "full-moon" is one of the meanings of "shahr" and that "scorching" is one of the meanings of "ramadhan". So "shahr ramadhan" = "scorching full-moon".
Duck still stumbling with the rest of my question--How many days are between two Sabet (Saturday)? A
In Quranic Arabic, "sabet" doesn't mean Saturday so your question is pure nonsense.
If you are intelligent then tell us how many days in a week according to the great reading.
I believe brother Layth has provided a clear defination to the word Kabba, which I believe is the most accurate, in his article.
This is what Layth says
"The Kaba (cube) which was used as the center of pagan rituals, is an emulation of the Kaba of Abraham which the Nabataens may have certainly come to know through the call of Abraham to the pilgrimage many centuries ago."
He translates "kaaba" as "cube". Is that what you think? I think that any reasonable person would see that the cube has nothing to do with the god's inviolable house and this is nothing but nonsense.
Now, answer the question.
I don't think that anything can help you if you think that some cube is what the god meant by "kaaba".
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace everyone,
The sun does not determine day or night. Its job is to generate and emit light, period. The earth makes day by presenting parts of itself to the sun. The part that is hidden from the sun in night.
As everyone can see from his own contradictory words, Guest is either a hypocrite, mentally challenged or both (most likely).
Peace,
Ayman
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I don't think that anything can help you if you think that some cube is what the god meant by "kaaba".
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman
Sorry this may be a little off topic, but I am a little curious now to the meaning of 'Kaaba'. If you don't mind can you please explain. Thank you for your continued patients on this thread. May God be pleased with you.
Peace
Hope
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Peace everyone,
As everyone can see from his own contradictory words, Guest is either a hypocrite, mentally challenged or both (most likely).
Peace,
Ayman
You have a comprehension problem. You react without understanding a matter. This is why your concept and the article is flawed. The SUN does not decide where on earth the day is. It is determined by the earth. Hope you get this simple matter. Otherwise tell us how we get a day on earth.
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Peace Ayman,
The sun does not determine day or night. Its job is to generate and emit light, period. The earth makes day by presenting parts of itself to the sun. The part that is hidden from the sun in night. Likewise the part that moon exposes to the sun becomes day there. The moon reflect this sunlight towards us and lights part of the earth. So even at night we get sunlight, though not as strong as direct sunlight. How does sun determine the day and night? Is the sun flip-flopping its position back and forth between two sides of earth to give us night and day?sun does not determine day or night? o ,
let us see, there is no sun, what would it be on earth?
If earth does no rotate, but sun is still there, would there be day and night on earth?
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You have a comprehension problem. You react without understanding a matter. This is why your concept and the article is flawed. The SUN does not decide where on earth the day is. It is determined by the earth. Hope you get this simple matter. Otherwise tell us how we get a day on earth.
only Allah swt determines day and night. thanks
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You have a comprehension problem. You react without understanding a matter. This is why your concept and the article is flawed. The SUN does not decide where on earth the day is. It is determined by the earth. Hope you get this simple matter. Otherwise tell us how we get a day on earth.
Brother , if there was no sun, it will be all darkness, no day/night, where as if earth did not rotate , there will still be day and night (permanent) on earth.
siki