Whether God could create a God?
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Salam MoF
It is good to see that another has begun to see the right interpretation of salateh. It is indeed hard to put an exact word for a word that has been followed by deception for over thousand years. When I made the proper realization I put it as behavior (October 2014 apparently) and later changed it to "ways" after criticism on ambiguity due to the neutral meaning and lack of precision overall.
2256
Sahih International
There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.DO we have to translate salateh with one word? I have found that it refers to following whatever is mentioned in the context.
2238 for example is embedded between details of divorce and salawate is in plural form referring to all the commands in the context. salat-ul-wusta is singular which refers to the prime duty in regards to the commands i.e. protecting dignity/rights of females during the divorce process. There has been debates to find out which prayer is salat-ul-wusta. But verses before and after make it wide clear what salateh means here.
My argument is that the root means "Follow/perceive To " where the last is entirely depending on word usage such as in which reflects upon the character of the context. An example is just in 1187 where it says instead of . The is merely a compound of and . In it reflects upon Shu'ayb's perception.
No second opinion comes to my understanding here. Yes refer to what Shu'aib was following (GOD's commands) and asking his community to follow in my humble understanding.
The question for me is which English word is best to use for translation of salateh rather than what it actually means which is already clear to me. Do you personally have any suggestion for "Perceive/conceive/follow To Be" in English?
The term salateh becomes clear to everyone who wants to see it in the context without following the ritualistic interpretations made during past 14 centuries. My personal understanding is what I said earlier that salateh is a comprehensive term referring to follow what is in the context. Primarily for me it means to follow closely.
I am not sure if you share my optimism concerning "innate letter meanings" but you may want to ponder upon the lonely letters that begin certain chapters followed by a clear conjunction (و.
There could be meanings to the individual letters but I have no source available to me in this regard. But understanding Qur'an requires a clean mind without any background music of interpretations and stories and then GOD helps you understand the true message.
...... amr could mean that the salatek makes Shu'ayb determined, i.e. his perception on being causes him to see this as a must.
Of course when one understand what GOD has commanded to follow then one becomes very determined.
It does still lack the connection meaning which many people propagate. I deem the connection part to be conjectural input into lexicons. The only "connection" you may have is by having the right perception.
Let others interpret it as connection. With sincerity they will come to the truth at some time. I took me about five long years to find out the meaning of salateh with the help of GOD through His Book. We are not the only ones coming to this conclusion but the voice of those who reached the same understanding in the past, had been silenced by the majority. It will remain like this because once meaning of salateh is understood then all control and authority on masses and resourses is lost which is not acceptable to the supressors (Far'oans, Hamans and Qaroons of any time). Muttiqeen will keep on following their salateh like Sho'aib and Kuffar will continue to repeat history unless GOD wills differently.
Salaam
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Salaam Novice,
I would probably also have said "what the heck" four years ago. Connection is not accurate, but it does not really matter since a person is supposed to follow in the footsteps (do not take literally) of the spirit of the Sustainer anyway.
It is only that I do not wish people to succumb to the Pagan delusion of a timed ritual connected to the word salateh in their ignorance and I wish to help them get out of that delusion. It is hard indeed to do that however due to the hard coded imprint that it has left. But I try to collect as many substantial signs as possible and hope someone is convinced eventually.
I am actually in a learning process myself still and I do not know Quran perfectly in its corrected version. However certain words I am beyond doubt sure about and salateh is one of them. It is no timed ritual.
Salaam
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Peace Novice,
I agree that meaning of saad-laam-wa depends on context.
In 11114, 1778, 2458, 4102, 629 it clearly means a method of "turning towards" the God for remembrance and reflection on God's signs to seek guidance at certain time/period, and not "following God's commands". Following God's commands is CONTINUOUS for 24 HOURS A DAY, and not limited to certain times of the day.
Also in 3356 God and angels don't follow the Prophet closely.
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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I am actually in a learning process myself still and I do not know Quran perfectly in its corrected version. However certain words I am beyond doubt sure about and salateh is one of them. It is no timed ritual.
Salaam Mam of Faith
Everyone is in a learning process. No one is perfect and no one can claim that he knows Qur'an perfectly because its a living book and its understanding will keep on changing with increase in human knowledge. But the fundamentals of DEEN will remain the same. And it is for sure that timed ritual cannot be established from Qur'an. One has to follow human hadith, history and tafseers to practice ritual prayer. Have faith and keep on giving your understanding because truth always prevail.
Salaam -
Salaam truthseeker11
Thanks for your kind reply. I will try to learn from your understanding in yasha Allah.I agree that meaning of saad-laam-wa depends on context.
handshake
In 11114, 1778, 2458, 4102, 629 it clearly means a method of "turning towards" the God for remembrance and reflection on God's signs to seek guidance at certain time/period, and not "following God's commands". Following God's commands is CONTINUOUS for 24 HOURS A DAY, and not limited to certain times of the day.
Agreed following GOD's commands is continuous and same is for remembering him and seeking his guidance. Please look at the context of all the verses mentioned above and try to figure out what means here. I need some time to discuss them one by one.
If it is referring to time bound ritual then Allah knows that it cannot be practised at certain regions on the earth or on the space station orbiting earth multiple times a day.
Also in 3356 God and angels don't follow the Prophet closely.
No they are not following the prophet closely because word used is not but
which is form II verb meaning to support.Are Allah and malaika doing a timed ritual on the prophet? Please reflect on the context to see what support is referred to in this verse.
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
Salaam -
Salaam Novice,
Thank you for your insightful reply. Likewise I would like to learn from your understanding if the infinite Creator wills.
Agreed following GOD's commands is continuous
handshake
and same is for remembering him and seeking his guidance. Please look at the context of all the verses mentioned above and try to figure out what means here. I need some time to discuss them one by one.
I will await your insight on those verses.
If it is referring to time bound ritual then Allah knows that it cannot be practised at certain regions on the earth or on the space station orbiting earth multiple times a day.
Agreed. I raised a similar point about north of Arctic Circle elsewhere on this forum in past.
I agree that "aqimi al-salat" is not a ritual just like taking a shower after exercising and then drinking a cup of green tea every morning is not a ritual. Why is it not possible that "aqimi al-salat" refers to a method of "turning towards" the infinite Creator periodically (not timed by solar system or a ritual) for remembrance and seeking guidance?
Why do 11114, 1778, 2458 clearly refer to certain times of the day when that is not possible in certain geographical locations? Could it be possible that certain verses in the current quranic text have been tampered with because they don't make any sense taking real world evidence into consideration (4153)?
Al-zikr being protected (159) does not necessarily refer to the current text but could refer to the original text that was sent down. The original text of al-zikr must be somewhere on Earth due to it being divinely protected/preserved and will be discovered one day.
No they are not following the prophet closely because word used is not but
which is form II verb meaning to support.handshake
I was just trying to expose that saad-laam-wa does not mean "behavior" or "ways" as Man of Faith claims using his secret innate letter meanings.
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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Truth,
You will not in the long run be able to prove against the truth concerning .
And 11114, 1778 do not particularly "clearly" give a timed ritual if one is honest to themselves. I did not have to spend much time to expose those passages.
2458 is more tricky but also that one is a hoax. It speaks of making sure that your family is aware of three important matters concerning life. I do not yet have a perfected translation of that passage, but I have enough to expose the traditional interpretation as bogus. The interpreters used the common multiple meanings dishonest technique in comprehending the passage.
Eventually, when I have unraveled more I will also be able to provide a full explanation of 2458 so that it has less points to comment on by people who lack understanding.
But my work is, if God permits, ongoing, so I will find more signs against you so you will not be able to testify against me for considerably long unless you are dishonest and stubborn and wish to cling unto falsely derived inferences.
Salateh refers to one's vision/perception/way of life, and I shall continue to struggle hard to show it. And as long as you are mindful of your view of life then you are on track. Being aware of your own actions and deeds is the essence of faith. After that you can know better what course of action to take.
The timed connection/prayer/ritual is part of a Pagan mindset and has nothing to do with the real Quran that shall emerge.
You need to comprehend that it has been a millennium of deception in terms of interpretation, but taking the easy way you take religious rituals you seem oblivious to this fact.
The connection to God is constant if you get near and you need no focused sessions. Prayers and meditation exist, but they are to clear your mind and to do as you would talk to anyone else and ask your rabb for something. The connection is constant. If you call for something to God then you use the Arabic word du'a which means to pray/call for.
Salaam
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Salaam Man of Faith,
While being in the physical illusion of separateness, the physical being needs to "aqimi al-salat" to turn towards the infinite Creator periodically for remembrance and to seek guidance and to constantly remind oneself that the separateness is just an illusion. Once the illusion of separateness is removed in higher state of existence and the physical, astral, and mental body has been shed, then there will no longer be any need for "aqimi al-salat".
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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And you blame me for conjecture...
The connection establishment is a gradual progress and depends on your determination to make changes in life. This salateh is just that, i.e. to be aware of how you lead your life, but it is not some ritual of sorts but plainly becoming self-aware.
There are other terms in Quran which speak of similar phenomena as what you speak of, but you clearly look for the wrong vocabulary. Yet it is affinity and realization in God which will bring you closer to your Rabb.
The Rabb will simply let you in, and it is a gradual process even if it goes faster for some people and slower for others, and some people (actually most) never get in.
But if you treat the Rabb separately from yourself and you look somewhere separately for that phenomenon, then you already affirm that you are far away.
If you can live in the spirit/consciousness of God then you can have nearness, it is a spiritual assimilation and you need no rituals or rites for it.
Salaam
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Peace Man Of Faith.
The "Unity" you are talking about sounds strange and "foggy"!
Reverencing GOD means validating His truth by promoting His teachings, and upholding His commands
Those who deliver God's messages, and who reverence Him alone, shall never fear anyone but God. God is the most efficient reckoner.
Qoran serves as a road map with clear guidance and laws - God has assured us that His scripture is straightforward except for allegorical verses (37), His teachings are easy (5417, 5422, 5432, 5440), perfect (111, 182, 2252), complete (6115), detailed (12111, 63, structured without any ambiguity (392 and have all that we need for salvation (651, 6153).
With these facts in mind, once we practice our freedom and choose God's verifiable guiding scripture as the only ultimate reference, there is not very much room left for disagreements.
We thus achieve the unity that God calls for by holding fast to His one consistent source. We unite with God and become His allies.
Satan,however, mostly hides under the exact catchy banners we adore and appreciate, "freedom of choice" - " unity" - "tolerance" - "best possible manners" - "kindness" - "patience" etc.... He thus misleads us, under these banners, into the thinking that after believing in God's verifiable word, we still have the option to disagree with each other about His straightforward teachings of Qoran.
This is his clever scheme for us to accommodate him and mix up his logic with God's. We then become united with Satan thinking we are on the right path!!!!
Tolerating ideas that oppose God's straightforward standards and systems in Qoran for the sake of unity is idol worship by definition.
No other entity but Satan would introduce us to that. We sink in his deception and without perceiving, we let go of the one unifying rope of God, while tolerating Satan instead.We trade away the real unity dictated by God and welcome a Satanic one
This is because you used to rejoice in false doctrines, on earth, and you used to promote them.
We have to make sure and be very careful
We will deal with the dividers.
They accept the Quran only partially.
By your Lord, we will question them all,
about everything they have done.But of course ,if you know better and have the truth,who can tell you any different?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Lena,
Please feel free to discard anything I say that doesn't make any sense or doesn't harmonize with your inner compass/conscience (3030), reasoning (611, 644 etc.), or real world evidence (4153, 1736).
But God is perfect. Can we ever reach an absolute state of perfection and have Gods qualities?
Yes, we are part of the infinite Creator and eventually when we reach the 8th density state of existence, the illusion of separateness will disappear and we all will merge back with the infinite Creator.
Density is the closest word in English that I can think of to express the state of existence. You can substitute it with "level" if "density" doesn't make sense.
The Creator is infinite (2115). The logical implication is that everything is part of the infinite Creator. If anything is not part of the Creator then the Creator would be finite because the Creator would end somewhere and that thing will begin somewhere. Since the Creator is infinite then everything is part of the infinite Creator.
2115 And to God belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is the face of God. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
All creation is physical manifestation of a tiny part of the infinite Intelligent Energy (the Infinite Creator). Energy and matter are inter convertible (E = m times c squared). Quantum physics proposes that all sub atomic particles are fundamentally formed from vibrations of strings of energy.
http//www.universetoday.com/114617/a-fun-way-of-understanding-emc2/
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCkGD76OEwA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
In our current 3rd density physical state of existence we are in an illusion of separateness from the infinite Creator. We will progressively go through higher density states of existence (the hereafter or heaven) until we reach the 8th density and merge back with the infinite Creator.
3rd density humans will eventually be transformed into 4th or higher density beings. Please reflect and meditate on the following verses
5660 We have predetermined death for you. Nothing can stop us
5661 From transforming your forms, and establishing you in what you do not know.This worldy life is nothing but an illusion/deception
5720 ............This worldly life is no more than an illusion/deceiving enjoyment.
Earth, air, water etc, are at 1st density state of existence; no consciousness, no free will.
Animals and plants are at 2nd density state of existence. They have consciousness but they don't have free will to choose between service to self (STS) or service to others (STO) path. Some animals such as cats and dogs are at a higher 2nd density state of existence, close to 3rd density.
Humans are at 3rd density state of existence. They have consciousness and free will to choose between STS or STO path.
Jinns (aliens, spirit guides, angels etc.) are at 4th or higher density states of existence. They have all the above plus their sub atomic particles are made of strings of energy vibrating at a different frequency than the lower densities so their "bodies" look different, with different physical properties. For example they can cloak themselves from the lower densities, have ability of telepathic communication, materialize as 3rd density being, exist as a collective, exist on planets that are uninhabitable to lower density entities etc. Their bodies become less and less dense and more and more light as the densities increase.
3rd density beings have 4 bodies - Physical body
- Emotional body
- Mental body
- Spiritual body
In 4th density, the physical body is shed and the other 3 remain. There is no physical suffering possible then, but only emotional, mental and spiritual suffering is possible.
In 5th density, the emotional body is also shed and only the other 2 remain.
In 6th density onwards, the mental body is also shed and only the spiritual body remains and they are "light beings".
In 7th density, preparation is made to merge back with the infinite Creator and they supervise lower density beings.
In 8th density, merging back with the infinite Creator occurs, termed as "return to your Lord" by al-quran.
228 How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? Then He makes you die, then He brings you to life, then to Him you return.
Some of these higher density entities have been given control by the infinite Creator over various matters and they are what al-quran refers to as "malaika"/controllers.
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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well, jedi
salaam all,
well, there's something wrong about my purposed based on this question.
OK, I will make it clear.If you're believe God is almighty, Whether God could create a God?
I think an ordinary man (or say let's think with a child's mind) will consider the results of the 2 thoughts below
- If could, there's will be 2 God(s) would be control this universe.
- If couldn't, certainly God is NOT almighty.
Can we answer this question clearly?
salaam.. )
Yes and the results will still be one God..
As + =
You will not think of such question, if you don't view God as a (finite) object or a being..
Infinity plus Infinity is still Infinity...
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Not being created is a feature of God that should point out the original question of this thread is self-contradicting. If God would create a god, by definition it wouldn't be God because of being created.
Can one break something unbreakable?
Can one see something invisible?Both are examples that contain a similar contradiction in the question itself - similar to the question "can God create a god".
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The Creator is infinite (2115). The logical implication is that everything is part of the infinite Creator. If anything is not part of the Creator then the Creator would be finite because the Creator would end somewhere and that thing will begin somewhere. Since the Creator is infinite then everything is part of the infinite Creator.
2115 And to God belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is the face of God. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
All creation is physical manifestation of a tiny part of the infinite Intelligent Energy (the Infinite Creator). Energy and matter are inter convertible (E = m times c squared). Quantum physics proposes that all sub atomic particles are fundamentally formed from vibrations of strings of energy.
Is God a physical entity? Can we perceive Him as infinite Intelligent Energy?
4211 Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
1124 Nor is there to Him any equivalent.
When you call Him infinite Intelligent Energy You are perceiving/equalizing Him with something which is not in accordance with above verses.
My humble understanding is that God is a consciousness that we can feel but we cannot perceive Him like anything. The moment we call Him something it is no more God as per above verses.
Peace
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Jafar put up a very good point about infinity.
No matter how you put it there is just one grand consciousness everything exists within.
Salaam
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Give any perception to God? What are you telling?
We ought to follow the perception as relayed by prophets/knowledgeable/insightful men and women, unless we have something better ourselves.
That is what be attentive to salateh means.
Salaam
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Peace Novice,
Is God a physical entity?
Strawman fallacy.
I never called It "a physical entity". Infinite Intelligent Energy is not a physical entity. All physical entities are a manifestation of a tiny part of the Intelligent Infinity, but the Intelligent Infinity as a whole is not a physical entity.
Can we perceive Him as infinite Intelligent Energy?
4211 Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
1124 Nor is there to Him any equivalent.
When you call Him infinite Intelligent Energy You are perceiving/equalizing Him with something which is not in accordance with above verses.
My humble understanding is that God is a consciousness that we can feel but we cannot perceive Him like anything. The moment we call Him something it is no more God as per above verses.
When you say "Him" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say "consciousness" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say "we can feel" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say God you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.By your logic we cannot use any human word as an attribute of the Intelligent Infinity because it will be perceiving like something.
There is nothing else in existence that can be equalized with the combination of the 3 words "Infinite Intelligent Energy".
I didn't say "intelligent" alone; that would be equalizing with something.
I didn't say "energy" alone; that would be equalizing with something.
I didn't say "creator" alone; that would be equalizing with something.I called It the "Infinite Intelligent Energy", or the "Infinite Creator", an attribute just like "al-rahman" or "al-raheem".
You can call it the "Infinite Consciousness" but not "consciousness".
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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Peace truthseeker11
It is always a pleasure to talk to thinking minds. I appreciate your understanding.
Strawman fallacy.
I never called It "a physical entity". Infinite Intelligent Energy is not a physical entity. All physical entities are a manifestation of a tiny part of the Intelligent Infinity, but the Intelligent Infinity as a whole is not a physical entity.No strawman fallacy.
I asked a question "Is God a physical entity, not that you call Him a physical entity.When you say "Him" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say "consciousness" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say "we can feel" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say God you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.By your logic we cannot use any human word as an attribute of the Intelligent Infinity because it will be perceiving like something.
When I said "Him" I used an English word for "HUA" which is used in Qur'an e.g. in 1121
Sahih International
Say, "He is Allah , OneWhen I say "consciousness" or "we can feel" I understand it as awareness and not an object.
When I said "God" I used an English word for as used in Qur'an
There is nothing else in existence that can be equalized with the combination of the 3 words "Infinite Intelligent Energy".
I respect your understanding.
I didn't say "intelligent" alone; that would be equalizing with something.
I didn't say "energy" alone; that would be equalizing with something.
I didn't say "creator" alone; that would be equalizing with something.I called It the "Infinite Intelligent Energy", or the "Infinite Creator", an attribute just like "al-rahman" or "al-raheem".
Al-Rahman and Al-Raheem are among the attributes of The Creator made known to us in Qur'an but "Infinite Intelligent Energy" is not.
I respect your understanding and gave my humble opinion and I pray to The Creator to help us understanding His book.
Peace.
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Hello RG Marshall,
welcome
Well .. Some questions can be put wrong, like how God is created, or how God created himself, or like your question, can God create a God. These questions are logically wrong because they assume that logic existed before God, and that of course is a wrong assumption. God created logic, He was there before logic and reason existed, so how could we discuss the existence of God based on something He made exist?