The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
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Fruit comes with both sexes. That's what is meant.
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Peace hawk99
Flowering plants,
including fruit trees, require pollination before fruit is producedNot all. Please see my second post in this treath.
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Peace progressive1993
Fruit comes with both sexes. That's what is meant.
But there aint such thing. Or?
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Peace hawk99
Not all. Please see my second post in this treath.Peace NielsJacob, I agree not all, as I was only referring to your question regarding the
verse and its implications/meaning and not trying to decipher the exceptions or variances.God bless you
peace
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Peace all,
Fruits NEVER come in both sexes. Some plants or flowers, however, come in both sexes.
The quran actually claims that all fruits come in pairs (133, "al-thamaraat" includes all fruits), with the intended meaning that there is male and female fruit, not just for a couple of plants, but every fruit is either male or female, and from each fruit there exists the male and the female kind. This is obviously false and creates a contradiction right away. There are no male and female apples, male and female strawberries, etc. Fruits do not have a gender. In its literal understanding, this statement of the quran is not a scientific miracle, it is a total scientific failure.
However, this statement is so wrong, that one can hardly imagine that it really talks about fruits as such. Maybe we have to allow for poetic license and al-quran simply used the literary device of synecdoche, speaking pars pro toto, and by saying "fruit" really meant "the plant that bears the fruit". Even if that is the case, there still appears to be a contradiction with real world evidence.
Some plants have perfect flowers. "Perfect" in a botanical sense means that each flower has both male (stamens) and female (carpel) parts in the same structure. A "perfect" flower may be described as "bisexual" or "hermaphroditic". Lilies, roses, and apple flowers are perfect.
It is obvious that perfect flowers don't occur in pairs which contradicts and falsifies 133. Calling such flowers "pairs" would be same as calling hermaphrodite earthworms "pairs".
This does seem to be a serious contradiction in al-quran with real world evidence, unless "zawjayn" is interpreted as "pair of gametes". Is that interpretation possible, staying within Arabic linguistics?
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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Gods peace amin
But doesn?t that make it all pretty complicated. Like there is some hidden meaning?
I think that the messeage shouldn?t be that distinct, or?Maybe its because I dont get the meaning then....
Salam NielsJacob,
Verse 13/3
And it is He who spread the earth and placed therein firmly set mountains and rivers; and from all of the fruits He made therein two mates; He causes the night to cover the day. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.The sign I see is about God, that some of the things cannot be changed or they are created by God, like the setup of the earth with mountains and rivers, the fruits that are made in two pairs and the night that will cover/follow the day.
so my idea of fruits = action and reaction could fit in here directly.
but the "fruits" when taken literally needs better explanation.
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Peace all,
I think the proper translation/interpretation of 133 would be as follows
133 ....... and from/"min" all the fruits It made in it/"fiha" pairs (of gametes) ..........
This resolves the contradiction.
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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I find that it is an intriguing formulation from the Qur'an. "sawjain ethnain" is weird. If I analyse it logically it would mean two (one and one) members of two different couples (or pairs) zawjain ethnain.
"And from among all the "thamaraat" (he-it-she) put in it (the earth) zawjain ethnain.
Salaam
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Peace,
by Kathy Imbriani
Some types of fruit trees require two trees to insure a fruit crop -- but not all do. Flowering
plants, including fruit trees, require pollination before fruit is produced. When pollen, the male
contribution, finds its way to the female structure, fertilization occurs and a fruit is born. Whether
or not two trees are needed depends on whether the plant produces both male and female
flowers or only one of the two.Housing for One or Two
In the plant world there are two kinds of flowering plants monoecious and dioecious. A
monoecious plant has male and female flowers. This allows pollination with only one tree.
A dioecious plant has either male or female flowers. A good way to remember this "mono"
means one in Latin and "ecious" means "house." Conversely, "di" means two in Latin.Fruit Trees with One House
Some monoecious fruit tree flowers are often referred to as "perfect" flowers, meaning both
the female and male parts are contained in the same flower. Others monoecious fruit trees
have separate male and female flowers but on the same tree. Two examples of monoecious
fruit trees are most peaches, (Prunus spp.), hardy in U.S. Department of Agriculture plant
hardiness zones 5 through 8, and apricots (Prunus armeniaca), hardy in USDA zones 5 through 7.Fruit Trees with Two Houses
Fruit trees that are dioecious require a male and a female tree in close proximity to produce
fruit, usually less than 100 feet, but the closer they are the more apt pollinating insects will
visit both. Some dioecious fruit trees include persimmon (Diospyros spp.), hardy in USDA
zones 5 through 11, and pistachio (Pistacia vera) -- Chinese pistachio (Pistacia chinensis)
thrives in USDA zones 6 through 9.The terms "male" and "female," though used to describe trees, fit as awkwardly as
someone else's shoes. Although the flowers of trees need to be fertilized with pollen
to produce fruit, the geography of plant sexuality is less rigid than that traditionally
described in humans.Complex Sex
Tree sexual reproduction is much more nuanced, however. Some trees have flowers
that contain both male and female parts, and some flowers have sexual parts that
don't function or that function only occasionally. Likewise, some trees change sex
from season to season while others change once or twice during their lifetime. In
short, tree gender is a complex and ever-evolving phenomenon that biologists
continue to study.http//i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02107/prune1_2107335b.jpg
http//homeguides.sfgate.com/DM-Resize/photos.demandstudios.com/getty/article/142/28/87513892_XS.jpg?w=360&h=360&keep_ratio=1
God bless
peace
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Peace hawk99
Although the flowers of trees need to be fertilized with pollen
to produce fruit,It could be true in the case of fruit trees, but not always in general fruit production.
(I posted before)Sometimes the fruit can be produced without the male as parthenocarpy (literally meaning virgin fruit) http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenocarpy
The plant do so sometimes because it can have some use of producing without seeds. The seedless fruits are easier to produce and some animal prefer them so the seeded ones are not the one there are being eated.
But the plant therefor don't do so with all the fruits
Sometimes the production can be without pollen. Its used often in the production of cucumbers where then no bees are needed.Anyway the fruitree always have male and female parts. This could be the pairs referring to in 133
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Peace
What about this simple explanation
There are no such thing as single fruit production.
On the tree there are always more than one fruit.
Not like for instant a carrot which isn?t a fruit and therefor appears alone.If the production of fruit is limited to one its only due to human hand interference.
This explanation seems to simple but could be the case. (Please I need respond on this one)
God bless you..
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Anyway the fruitree always have male and female parts. This could be the pairs referring to in 133
Agreed
Thank you NielsJacob for this very enlightening subject, I am enjoying it very much.
The implications of this subject are very broad and sets the stage for the examination
of "pairs" throughout creation.5149 And of all things We created two mates; perhaps you will remember.
3636 Exalted is He who created all pairs - from what the earth grows and from
themselves and from that which they do not know.God bless
peace
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Peace hawk99
Thank you NielsJacob for this very enlightening subject, I am enjoying it very much.
)The implications of this subject are very broad and sets the stage for the examination
of "pairs" throughout creation.Yes you are right. It could be nice to exam it well.
I saw some at Answering-Christanity but I didn?t found their explanation complete.Did you see my last post
What about this simple explanation
There are no such thing as single fruit production.
On the tree there are always more than one fruit.
Not like for instant a carrot which isn?t a fruit and therefor appears alone.If the production of fruit is limited to one its only due to human hand interference.
This explanation seems to simple but could be the case. (Please I need respond on this one)
If this a fact it could be really amassing.
Have you seen a single fruit on any plant?
I now truing to see if thats the case. So for I haven?t found any fruit that are produced alone.
God bless you too.
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Peace Niels Jacob,
Anyway the fruitree always have male and female parts. This could be the pairs referring to in 133
As huruf pointed out, the problem is 133 doesn't say "pair" referring to 2, but says "two pairs" referring to 4.
What about this simple explanation
There are no such thing as single fruit production.
On the tree there are always more than one fruit.
Not like for instant a carrot which isn?t a fruit and therefor appears alone.If the production of fruit is limited to one its only due to human hand interference.
This explanation seems to simple but could be the case. (Please I need respond on this one)
Same problem. 133 says "two pairs" meaning a total of 4. Are fruits always produced in fours?
Back to square one; this seems to be a serious contradiction in the quran.
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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No, I did not say four, I said one plus one each of them from a different pair. One from one pair or couple, another from another pair or couple. The ithnain is there to assert that it is just two we are considering, not four. Two members of a pair but not of th same pair but from different pairs.
It may sound unusual as a formulation but quite logical.
At least I do not see any reason that makes impossible that understanding. It is also a formulation which is used in legal and accounting parlance at least in Spanish.
Salaam
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Peace Trurhseeker.
Where do you get "four" from.
In fact the verse insist that it is " Ithnain" Look
Does "Zoujain" " Ithnain" mean four to you?
To me it means in pairs of two-Males and females"!
GOD bless you.
Peace."
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Peace all,
My mistake! I misunderstood what huruf said earlier.
Question Why add "ithnain" to "zawjayn" when "zawjayn" itself means 2 mates?
It still doesn't make any sense. Do plants have "one plus one, each of them from a different pair"?
Why only "zawjayn" in 5149 and not "zawjayn ithnain"?
Peace