Pagan ,Salah or Namaaz the different positions.
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Salaams all,
just came upon this info certain names of the different Salah positons, but unfortunately not all are found within the quranSalaam.
? Al-A'raf (The Heights) >
? Hud (The Prophet Hud)>
? Al-'Ankabut (The Spider)>Al-A'raf (The Heights)
Faakhathathumu alrrajfatu faasbahoo fee darihim jathimeena
778 So the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay PROSTRATE in their homes in the morning!
Al-A'raf (The Heights)
Faakhathathumu alrrajfatu faasbahoo fee darihim jathimeena
791 But the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes before the morning!
Hud (The Prophet Hud)
Waakhatha allatheena thalamoo alssayhatu faasbahoo fee diyarihim jathimeena
1167 The (mighty) Blast overtook the wrong-doers, and they lay prostrate in their homes before the morning,-
Hud (The Prophet Hud)
Walamma jaa amruna najjayna shuAAayban waallatheena amanoo maAAahu birahmatin minna waakhathati allatheena thalamoo alssayhatu faasbahoo fee diyarihim jathimeena
1194 When Our decree issued, We saved Shu'aib and those who believed with him, by (special) mercy from Ourselves But the (mighty) blast did seize the wrong- doers, and they lay prostrate in their homes by the morning,-
Al-'Ankabut (The Spider)
Fakaththaboohu faakhathathumu alrrajfatu faasbahoo fee darihim jathimeena
2937 But they rejected him Then the mighty Blast seized them, and they lay prostrate in their homes by the morning.
Some other positions of Pagan Salah or Namaaz or what else they call it
Jathimeena == Prostration,
And from lanes (Aparently you can?t find these in the quran)(p380)
Jath == sitting upon his knees ,putting down his knees and raising his
Buttocks.
Ajthaha == He made him sit upon his knees.
Ajthoo == To fall upon ones knees.
Jathoo/Jathee==He sat upon his knees.
Jathfa ==fall upon his breast.interesting!
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Peace brother Mz357 and Ayman
"A timely reminder by brother mz357, for those who PROSTRATE PHYSICALLY"
YAA 'AYYUHAA AN- NAAS ITTAQO RABB -KUM 'INNA ZALZALAH AS- SAAcAH SHAY' cAZ.EM 221
O mankind! Fear your Lord and be dutiful to Him! Verily, the EARTHQUAKE of the Hour (of Judgement) is a terrible thing. 221
EARTHQUAKE = ZALZALAH
In Verse 778 / 91 and 2937 there is RAJFAH
In Verse 1167 / 94 there is SAY.HAH
RAJAFAH = Trepidation (FEAR, anxiety) Tremor, shudder, Convulsed. (not earthquake)
SAY.HAH = Scream, Cry, outcry, shout
It is not possible in an EARTHQUAKE or SCREAM that every one would die in a posture of prostration.
The disbelievers when seized by FEAR or SCREAM / SHOUT must have PROSTRATED PHYSICALLY (JAATHIM) to their gods, to save them, but the Angels of Death took their souls away while they lied in that posture (prostration) JAATHIM.
I have seen the Hindus, the Buddhists prostrating (JAATHIM) before their gods.
'A- LAM TARA 'ANNA 'ALLAAH YASJUD LA- -HU MAN FE AS- SAMAAWAAT WA- MAN FE AL- 'ARD. WA- ASH- SHAMS WA- AL- QAMAR WA- AN- NUJOM WA- AL- JIBAAL WA- ASH- SHAJAR WA- AD- DAWAABB WA- KATHER MIN AN- NAAS WA- KATHER H.AQQA cALAY -HI AL- cADHAAB WA- MAN YUHIN 'ALLAAH FA- MAA LA- -HU MIN MUKRIM 'INNA 'ALLAAH YAFcAL MAA YASHAA' 2218
See you not that to Allah PROSTRATES whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and Ad-Dawab (moving living creatures, beasts, etc.), and many of mankind? But there are many (men) on whom the punishment is justified. And whomsoever Allah disgraces, none can honour him. Verily! Allah does what He wills. 2218
WHOEVER is in the HEAVENS and WHOEVER is on the EARTH, and the SUN, and the MOON, and the STARS, and the MOUNTAINS, and the TREES, and AD DAWAAB, and MANY of MANKIND = PROSTRATION
IF MANKIND = PHYSICAL PROSTRATION, then
ALL OTHERS = PHYSICAL PROSTRATIONIF ALL OTHERS = SUBMISSION, then
MANKIND = SUBMISSIONThanks.
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Salaams Br-Ayman,Hafeez,
I agree what you have come up with hafeez - good going.
As Allah has said in these ayats
017.005
YUSUFALI When the first of the warnings came to pass, We sent against you Our servants given to terrible warfare They entered the very inmost parts of your homes; and it was a warning (completely) fulfilled.022.040
YUSUFALI (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah". Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will)..All these you have mentioned i don't beleive they where natural disasters,but the mistranslating is causing all the confusions.
Also
011.082
YUSUFALI When Our Decree issued, We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay, spread, layer on layer,-The baked clay was used in the early wars for fighting - like in a big sling shot - if you have seen old european movies you would know.(see my trans of a sura at the bottom)
And the scream in the olden days when a tribe attacks another they scream their heads off to frighten the party being attacked(this was mentioned in the QD)
Sura 105I think this sura is a part of the happening to lots people.(Though Allah knows best)
Tarmee = He shot or cast.
Tair(an) = moved in the air or flew.
ababeel = a company in a state of dispersion.105
Have not you seen how dealt your lord with the companions of the mean did not he make their plot go astray and he sent against them flying company ,in atate of dispersion shot at them of stones of baked clay.And made them like stubble,stalks devoured.
Sorry for going off topic.
Bye. -
Peace brother MZ,
As Allah has said in these ayats
022.040
YUSUFALI (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah". Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will)..Yusufali's translation of 2240 is not accurate. I don't think that there are any "monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques" in the verse.
I would appreciate your thoughts.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Salaams Br. Ayman,
Agreed,but we usualy use these mistranslations whilst we only look to a certain point in the ayat -i hope we come up with a better transI would love to waste my time correcting the quran for the future generations if there where others willing.But not many Brothers are willing or have the time - i think.God bless.
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Salam brothers,
Jatham in Qamus Muheet means a person that stays in his/her place and does not move. Whatever their position was lying /prostrating/on their face/ on their side.
It does not compare to Prostrating.
The Qamus Muheet meaning explains the AYAT better.
Salam
Hussein
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Salam brother mz 357,
Since you worry about the mistranslations regarding 2240, I will translate a small part of it
walawla dafAAu Allahi alnnasa baAAdahumbibaAAdin lahuddimat sawamiAAu wabiyaAAun wasalawatunwamasajidu yuthkaru feeha ismu Allahikatheeran
walawla dafAAu Allahi alnnasa baAAdahumbibaAAdin Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another
lahuddimat then were torn down/demolished
sawamiAAu plural of SAWMA'A and it means Monasteries
wabiyaAAun plural of Biya'ah and it means places of worship of christians
wasalawatun Plural of Salat
wamasajidu and places of Sujood/Submission
yuthkaru feeha ismu Allahikatheeran mentioned in them the name of GOD a lotI hope that this helps. I will ask you to beware of mistranslations that you don't like as much as you should beware of mistranslations that you may like.
Salam brother and may GOD be with you
Hussein
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Salaams latif,
here's someone else's version.I think i agree with that person.Salawaat=Advice(pl) ? I think.
Masaajido=(submissions)/(Allah?s)Acts carried out.
2240
BIYAc which is usually translated as a church/synagoguesame word throughout the quran e.g 2437 and 1431 and 2.254 so on.
is actually translated as a SALE OR BARGAINING.
SAWAMEUN - much or often abstaining.
La-HHada-Matt =Not ?Guided-would have been
These are from lanes lxicon and qd.
Hence nothing physical is being demolished.
HHADAYA= GUIDANCE (Lanes and qd)
LAHHAD - DECLINED / DEVIATED / FROM THE RIGHT COURSE
MAT - HE EXTENDED , or STRECTCHED OUT
- HE DREW , OR DREW UP
(from lanes)
2239 ,Permission is given to those who have been wronged(to fight)-----------who have been expelled from their homes---------
2240 ,---------And if it where not for mankind (in these cases)standing against one another ,then (you) would not receive benefits(of the guidance) from abstaining,bargaining,salawaat and submissions wherein Allahs name is mentioned much---------
Salaams.
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Salam brother mz357,
I do apologize that I have to disgaree strongly with certain parts of the translation that you are citing. I will point out why.
Salawaat=Advice(pl) ? I think.
What is your source here?
Masaajido=(submissions)/(Allah?s)Acts carried out.
I definitely disagree. Masajid is plural of Masjid and it CANNOT mean submissions. The word for Submissions is SAJDAT. my definition of MASJID is place of Submission.
2240 BIYAc which is usually translated as a church/synagogue
same word throughout the quran e.g 2437 and 1431 and 2.254 so on.
is actually translated as a SALE OR BARGAINING.
It is not the same word
2254 bayAAun, 1431bayAAun,2437 bayAAun
2240 biyaAAun
Notice the I between the B and Y. also notice the A between the Y and AA. Also notice how the word is identical in the other three AYAT. This difference disputes your point.SAWAMEUN - much or often abstaining.
The word that means Abstaining is SAWM and there is not a AIN in it. The word above has a AIN in it. You gave a wrong meaning.
La-HHada-Matt =Not ?Guided-would have been
These are from lanes lxicon and qd.
Hence nothing physical is being demolished.
HHADAYA= GUIDANCE (Lanes and qd)
LAHHAD - DECLINED / DEVIATED / FROM THE RIGHT COURSE
MAT - HE EXTENDED , or STRECTCHED OUT
- HE DREW , OR DREW UP
(from lanes)
Here you definitely played with the word to suit your desire. The word is
lahuddimat rather than La-HHada-Matt. You divided it into two words to suit your purpose when it is only one word. The root is HDM which means to demolish. You can find it at LANES or QD. Your translation is simply wrong.
Please understand that I don't mind anyone find a new meaning to the AYAT. I think that is important. One must, however, stick to the rules of the language and not play with it.
Salam
Hussein
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Salaams,
For God sake , don't some people ever use their akal,understanding,common sense.
Since when do they say Allahs name much in churches and monestries.
They prey to Jesus,if you don't know go to one and see with your God given senses.
ORIGINAL 2040
-----------in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure-----------
I am finished with this ayat,i think.
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peace to u mz n hlatif reading u,r posts here about the physicle part of salat i have one point to make we all know that Quran is written in the Quraish version of Arabic which is different from the arabic used now a days i wanna know wut is u,r source of translation here wut dictionary r u using so i can know how autantic u peoples r ?
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Salaam nexus,
I think we all use the existing translations MORE THEN ANYTHING ELSE.
I would recomand lanes first ,and quranic dictionary later(i use them),BUT that is just for words/ayats which seem not to make any sense or are out of context or for that matter out of reallity.
God bless.
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Salaams,
i have just changed the minimum number of words (only those in capitals having been changed)from the prog.translation - for God just see how it makes perfect sense.-it did to me.Salaams.2235Those who, when God is mentioned, their hearts revere, and they are patient to what befalls them, and they hold the assembly, and from what We provide them they spend.
36.And the plump animals for offering, We have made them for you as decrees from God, in them is goodness for you. So mention God?s name upon them while being orderly, so once their body becomes still, then eat from them and give food to the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.
37.Neither their meat nor their blood reaches God, but what reaches Him is the righteousness from you. It was thus that He made them in service to you, so that you may glorify God for what He has guided you to, and give news to the good doers.
38God defends those who believe. God does not like any betrayer, rejecter.
39.It is permitted for those who have been persecuted to fight. And God is able to give them victory.
40.The ones who were driven out of their homes without justice, except that they said ?Our Lord is God!? And if it were not for PEOPLE STANDING against one another, then ABSTAININGS ,TRADINGS,ASSEMBLIES,OBEYANCES WHEREIN the name of God is frequently mentioned would have CEASED. God will give victory to those who support Him. God is Powerful, Noble.
41.Those whom if We allow them authority in the land, they hold the assembly, and they contribute towards betterment, and deter from evil. And to God is the conclusion of all matters.Thanks.
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As'Salaamu Alaykum,
I am at a loss following this particular thread. Does the Qur'an forbid prostration or bowing?
I believe that each of us is endowed with an understanding of the Qur'an in our own proportion, so that we may approach Allah's Oneness through our individuated existence, without attachment to any particular form, including our sense of a "separate" self.
There are ayatul to be read that are not within the pages of the Qur'an, as stated within the Qur'an. Allah has placed ayatul within ourselves. Can we prescribe to each other how these signs are to be recognized and read, or does this knowledge come through the Rahman and Rahim of Allah.
This morning I read the Monday Morning Prayer of Ibn' Arabi and the following stood out to me, now I see why."O Allah, invest me in the garment of Glorious Praise! Clothe me in the robe of Supreme Might! Crown me with the diadem of Majesty and Glorification! Divest me of the attributes of dispersive frivolousness and constrictive rigorousness. Liberate me from the shackles of calculation and limitation, and from the pursuit of difference, deficiency and opposition.
O Allah, my non-existence in You is my very existence; my remaining with You is my very non-existence. Instead of the situation where Iam imagining I exist along with You, grant that I realise my true non-existence in You, and make me whole by annihilating me in You!"Is bowing and prostrating wrong because it belongs to a tradition that we are choosing to reject?
I don't understand, can someone explain to me why it is being made to seem like someone who chooses to prostrate is not in harmony with Allah's system and order?
Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Salam Olusanya,
I think I understand what you feel. For the last 20 years, since I became a muslim (or at least try to) I've been praying ritually to God alone. Since discovering the discussions going on here on freemind and veryfying for myself I adopted another way and pray only fajr and ishaa (actually prayers I have always "felt" more than the others, which is also why it all made sense to me). I do bow, I do prostrate and I don't think there is anything wrong with it as long as I don't impose on others and think that I am the one who is guided in the only way that could be right.
But we should not forget that these prayers often are a selfish, only for us and our well being, and that to be a real muslim, one has to fulfill his commitments to God by always trying to improve oneself as well as helping others. I do try to improve, sometimes I manage, sometimes not - but I know that for the "commitment to others in the name of God" I still have a long way to go.
Now, I'd like to apologize to the readers about always talking about how "I feel" and how "I do". I'm not lettered enough in Arabic to do the research work that many others are doing (and that I would like to do), but, given that God gives understanding in our hearts I think that this is just as important - and for sure, it is possible that to different beings he can give different understandings, which with time also evolve....
Elke
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Peace be upon you Osulanya,
There are ayatul to be read that are not within the pages of the Qur'an, as stated within the Qur'an
EXACTLY!
Regarding the rejection of the traditional prostration, we reject it because it is not true, just the same way we reject the tradition of people who worship a human that they say was named Jesus. WHile we respect all peoples path, we must uphold that which is true and beneficial for the mind. The God has never given us a sign in this reading or even in the horizons that we must stop what we are doing 5 times a day and put our faces on the ground (bowing to Him as if He is a physical object apart from us). Instead, we are to "prostrate within" and become one with the God. As you eloquently stated from Ibn' Arbi
"Instead of the situation where Iam imagining I exist along with You, grant that I realise my true non-existence in You, and make me whole by annihilating me in You!"
That realization happens within when we STOP the physical movements and are at PEACE. That is why Musa was told to remove His shoes when He talked to the God, there is no MOVEMENT required.
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Peace be upon you Osulanya,
There are ayatul to be read that are not within the pages of the Qur'an, as stated within the Qur'an
EXACTLY!
Regarding the rejection of the traditional prostration, we reject it because it is not true, just the same way we reject the tradition of people who worship a human that they say was named Jesus. WHile we respect all peoples path, we must uphold that which is true and beneficial for the mind. The God has never given us a sign in this reading or even in the horizons that we must stop what we are doing 5 times a day and put our faces on the ground (bowing to Him as if He is a physical object apart from us). Instead, we are to "prostrate within" and become one with the God. As you eloquently stated from Ibn' Arbi
"Instead of the situation where Iam imagining I exist along with You, grant that I realise my true non-existence in You, and make me whole by annihilating me in You!"
That realization happens within when we STOP the physical movements and are at PEACE. That is why Musa was told to remove His shoes when He talked to the God, there is no MOVEMENT required.
As'Salaamu Alaykum,
Idolfree1... I am in no form or fashion disagreeing what you say in regards to blindly following a tradition, but outward prostration did not begin, nor is it limited to Islam.
I am not speaking about the 5 times prayers. I am talking about physically humbling yourself in the "presence" of Allah (which is not limited to the times when one is still)
There is a harmony of mind and body that is produced and maintained through acts such as bowing and prostrating with our minds focused on Allah. If we practice only when we are still then how do we maintain this awareness when we walk, talk, run, while at work?O Allah, grant aid to my exterior and interior that I may attain Your Satisfaction, and grant light to my heart and innermost secret that I may be thoroughly aware of the ways of your "working."
Ibn ArabiAl-Kahf 1865
Fawajad AAabdan min AAibdin taynhu ramatan min AAindin waAAallamnhu min ladunn AAilm(n)
So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence.
My goal is to live in the Presence of Allah, at all times, while walking and sitting/standing still. I pointed out in a previous post that the physical aspects of what is being referred to as traditional prayer are a moving meditation, and is not limited to traditional Islam. There is great benefit in the conscious act of bringing your mind, body, and breath in harmony with each other, while maintaining awareness of Allah's Presence. In my studies I find that there is no spiritual tradition in existence that does not have such a practice within it.
Adh-Dhariyat 51 20- 21
Wafee al-ari ytun lilmooqineen(a)
Wafee anfusikum afal tubiroon(a)On the earth are signs for those of assured Faith,
As also in your own selves Will ye not then see?Sad 3827
Wam khalaqn a(l)ssama wa(a)l-ara wam baynahum bilan lika {th}annu allaeena kafaroo fawaylun lillaeena kafaroo mina a(l)nnr(i)
Not without purpose did We create heaven and earth and all between! that were the thought of Unbelievers! but woe to the Unbelievers because of the Fire (of Hell)!
An-Naml 2793
Waquli alamdu lillhi sayureekum ytihi fataAArifoonah wam rabbuka bighfilin AAamm taAAmaloon(a)
And say "Praise be to Allah, Who will soon show you His Signs, so that ye shall know them"; and thy Lord is not unmindful of all that ye do.
In my Qur'anic dictionary one of the meanings it shows for sajda is to humble oneself, this can be done both inwardly and outwardly, and in both niyat/intention is what makes it effective. If one, by refusing to prostrate, does so because of a feeling of superior intellect or understanding then no amount of reading will make their actions pious. If one prostrates, with the full intention/understanding that they are humbling themselves before Allah, then many blessings will be their reward. Words are never what they describe, so I do not allow myself to get to caught up in the meaning of a word. My saying, "I am going to humble myself", is not the same as the actual experience of humility.
In my humble opinion, we are here to share our experience of Allah, not to tell each other how to act or what to do, Allah instructs whomever Hu wills. It is my experience that through the practice of "moving meditation" I have gained the ability to experience "being" connected to Allah in stillness, and when moving.
Ta-Ha 20114
FataAAl Allhu almaliku alaqqu wal taAAjal bi(a)lqur-ni min qabli an yuq ilayka wayuhu waqul rabbi zidnee AAilm(n)
High above all is Allah, the King, the Truth! Be not in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to thee is completed, but say, "O my Lord! advance me in knowledge."
The Qur'an is still, in fact, being revealed to each one of us as we study it and seek to become closer to Allah's Presence as Hu manifests inside of us as well as outside of us, that is why we must practice "mindfulness/dhikr" of Hu's Presence at ALL times.
Any errors in this post are due to too much thinking with my head, not enough with my heart.
Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Peace be upon you Osulanya,
My understanding is that the inner submission we agree on, the outer submission would be the movements we make in our good deeds, whatever they might be. It would be non beneficial for a person to be able to "control" thier body in order to make it bow down on the ground, but cannot control it to make the hand reach into the pocket and give.
I can understand what you mean by a moving meditation, but I don't see the example in THIS reading of that, instead I see indication that we are not to prostrate to the sun or moon (physical prostration at day or night is to the moon), but instead to prostrate to the God who created them (within).
What are your thoughts on that?