Why Quranism Does Not Work & Hadith Are Historically Accurate!
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Watch this please with a rational mind and you would start to accept true Islam again, this will make you incorporate Hadith in your life and hinder you from going astray.
I have read much about you people, and it's safe to say that you are heretics, isn't that quite humorous? Out of all the Muslims, you, the fundamentalists of Quran are being the most heretical.
Quranists start with uncontroversial observations that the hadith literature cannot be taken as 100% authentic in its entirety, that some of it may be exaggerated or fabricated. That's fine. But then they lurch like a drunken sailor in the opposite direction, and throw everything out. It's a blunt approach, lacking all nuance. This creates all sorts of problems. For one, it basically eradicates Muhammad as a historical figure or example to emulate or learn from. He just becomes some unknown shadow, a mere mouthpiece that dictated the Quran. That's what happens when you throw out all the information about him.
Another thing to note is that although the Muslim community underwent civil war and doctrinal schism a mere 50 years after Muhammad's death, a schism that lasts to today, there is remarkable uniformity in terms of much of the details of description of Muhammad's words and deeds. Quranists have no real explanation for why that is that, that rich common picture, across rival sects.
Also, if you regard Quran to be the Word of God, how do you reject Ahadith when Hadith were transmitted by the same Companions as those that transmitted you the Quran? This is some of the stupidity with Quranism.
The problem with Quranists is that they can have all heretical interpretation of the Quran, Jesus is not Isa? Well, Hadith, common sense, Gospels and all other things refute the lies of yours.
Now, sure, some Hadith are unethical, but that's the reason why we need to verify them by orientalists as historical accurate (and we have a lot of them) and not some clergy of Saudi Arabia with all of his dogmatism.
Listen to what you can do, use the Ahadith as historical narratives of the life of a man known as Muhammad, I learn from his wisdom, knowledge and ethical philosophies. I base this mystic, proverbial wisdom as a way of following his path, using him as an example as accorded to the Quran.
Ahadith may be historical true, but this does not canonize them into the dogma or political affairs. For example, I do not care how much authentic an unethical Hadith says that killing apostates is allowed, I'm not doing that nor do I support it... talking about whether a person should acquire a custom of Muhammad into themselves, such as standing in the rain, is perfectly fine and it resonates with me.
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No can't do!
Because
- G-D is the only, relevant Lawmaker.
- A messenger of G-D does not invent laws (he's just an emissary/mediator).
- The hadith corpus is a post-quranic collection of apocryphal anecdotes!
PS Can you, as an advocate of hadith, explain the doctrine of abrogation ( خ to the advocates of Qurnism?
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1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord in the Quran alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
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He he...
It is fun being called heretic. Do you know any other word? It is like sticking out, right?
Those who discovered that a lot of Quran's interpretation was a sectarian hoax have made progress.
Quran is a phenomenon of revelation and cannot be compared with the garbage called hadith which has little to no consistency.
About not being the traditional Jesus I can agree with though. Not enough to call someone heretic however, what is a heretic anyway? Some invented label.
Salaam
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The question can and should be extended to
"Why Ideas Conveyed By Religion Is Not Accurate Compared With Reality".Having said that.. I'm not aware that there is a religion called / named "Quranism".
Thus no wonder that it doesn't works as Religion (such as Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc..) supposed to work..In similitude the question is similar as "Why Toyota Prius doesn't fly"..
Well because it's not a plane or helicopter in the first place.. -
Watch this please with a rational mind and you would start to accept true Islam again, this will make you incorporate Hadith in your life and hinder you from going astray.
I have read much about you people, and it's safe to say that you are heretics, isn't that quite humorous? Out of all the Muslims, you, the fundamentalists of Quran are being the most heretical.
Quranists start with uncontroversial observations that the hadith literature cannot be taken as 100% authentic in its entirety, that some of it may be exaggerated or fabricated. That's fine. But then they lurch like a drunken sailor in the opposite direction, and throw everything out. It's a blunt approach, lacking all nuance. This creates all sorts of problems. For one, it basically eradicates Muhammad as a historical figure or example to emulate or learn from. He just becomes some unknown shadow, a mere mouthpiece that dictated the Quran. That's what happens when you throw out all the information about him.
Evidence from alQuraan was expected.
Another thing to note is that although the Muslim community underwent civil war and doctrinal schism a mere 50 years after Muhammad's death, a schism that lasts to today, there is remarkable uniformity in terms of much of the details of description of Muhammad's words and deeds. Quranists have no real explanation for why that is that, that rich common picture, across rival sects.
Also, if you regard Quran to be the Word of God, how do you reject Ahadith when Hadith were transmitted by the same Companions as those that transmitted you the Quran? This is some of the stupidity with Quranism.
Evidence from alQuraan was expected.
The problem with Quranists is that they can have all heretical interpretation of the Quran, Jesus is not Isa? Well, Hadith, common sense, Gospels and all other things refute the lies of yours.
Now, sure, some Hadith are unethical, but that's the reason why we need to verify them by orientalists as historical accurate (and we have a lot of them) and not some clergy of Saudi Arabia with all of his dogmatism.
Listen to what you can do, use the Ahadith as historical narratives of the life of a man known as Muhammad, I learn from his wisdom, knowledge and ethical philosophies. I base this mystic, proverbial wisdom as a way of following his path, using him as an example as accorded to the Quran.
Evidence from alQuraan was expected.
Ahadith may be historical true, but this does not canonize them into the dogma or political affairs. For example, I do not care how much authentic an unethical Hadith says that killing apostates is allowed, I'm not doing that nor do I support it... talking about whether a person should acquire a custom of Muhammad into themselves, such as standing in the rain, is perfectly fine and it resonates with me.
brickwall
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His only path pr
mmKhan -
1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord in the Quran alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
Salaam,
Beautiful aayat, but little correction needed in the above translation.
1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord alone in the Quran, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
I am just a servant of my boss. . He told me that he would give me a great reward in the future if I follow what he says. I found it quite attractive. He told me to stick to our business guidelines according to which I was not to follow hadith books but Quran. So if you really wanna have a debate do it with him. He told me some things which I am posting here. So refute him instead of me and my colleagues in this forum.
6114 - "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed" Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
1689 - And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
12111 - There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.
413 - A Book, in which the verses are explained in detail; A Quran in Arabic, for (those) people who understand;
1037 - And this Qur?an is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the Book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds.
3923 - God has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God?s message. Such is God?s guidance; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. As for those sent astray by God nothing can guide them.
752 - We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
5417 - And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
2159 - Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear in the Book for men, these it is whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them too.
7516-19 Do not move your tongue with it to make haste. It is for Us to gather and relate it. So when We relate it, you shall follow its revelation. Then it is for Us to explain it.
God condemns the Hadith by name, and tells us the only book needed is the Qur?an.
*Note, the actual Arabic word used here is Hadith.456 - These are Gods revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?
7185 - Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which Hadith, beside this, do they believe in?
316 - Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of God without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.
7750 - Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?
1746 - We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Qur'an alone, they run away in aversion.
6944-48 - Had he uttered any other teachings. We would indeed have seized him by his right hand. And would have cut off his main vein. None of you could have helped him. This is a reminder for the righteous.
1015 - And when Our clear revelations were recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said "Bring a Qur'an other than this, or change it!" Say "It is not for me to change it of my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great Day!"
7221 - "Say O Muhammad, 'I possess no power to harm you, or benefit you through guiding you.''
551-2 - The Almighty. He has taught the Qur?an.
661 - O you prophet, why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Merciful.
16105 - The only ones who fabricate false doctrines are those who do not believe in God's revelations; they are the real liars.
394 - Those who fabricate false prohibitions after this, and attribute them to God, are truly wicked.
587 - O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by God, and do not aggress; God dislikes the aggressors.
6119 - Why should you not eat from that upon which God's name has been mentioned? He has detailed for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors.
6140 - Losers indeed are those who killed their children foolishly, due to their lack of knowledge, and prohibited what God has provided for them, and followed innovations attributed to God. They have gone astray; they are not guided.
732 - Say, "Who prohibited the nice things God has created for His creatures, and the good provisions?" Say, "Such provisions are to be enjoyed in this life by those who believe. Moreover, the good provisions will be exclusively theirs on the Day of Resurrection." We thus explain the revelations for people who know.
5103 - God did not prohibit livestock that begets certain combinations of males and females, nor livestock liberated by an oath, nor the one that begets two males in a row, nor the bull that fathers ten. It is the disbelievers who invented such lies about God. Most of them do not understand.
6144 - Regarding the two kinds of camels, and the two kinds of cattle, say, "Is it the two males that He prohibited, or the two females, or the contents of the wombs of the two females? Were you witnesses when God decreed such prohibitions for you? Who is more evil than those who invent such lies and attribute them to God? They thus mislead the people without knowledge. God does not guide such evil people."
16116 - You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to God. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to God will never succeed.
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Those who discovered that a lot of Quran's interpretation was a sectarian hoax have made progress.
Sure, you can reject Tafsir, which are garbage by the way, but it is absolutely stupid (and wrong) to reject Hadith.
Quran is a phenomenon of revelation and cannot be compared with the garbage called hadith which has little to no consistency.
How can you accept Quran as a revelation when you reject Hadith? Don't you realize it was conveyed by the same Sahaba who gave you Ahadith? Tafsir, however, were first dominant in the eleventh century by Ibn Kathir, we can reject his interpretations, but Hadith are still history.- G-D is the only, relevant Lawmaker.
- A messenger of G-D does not invent laws (he's just an emissary/mediator).
- The hadith corpus is a post-quranic collection of apocryphal anecdotes!
PS Can you, as an advocate of hadith, explain the doctrine of abrogation ( خ to the advocates of Qurnism?
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That's true, what relevance does that have to do with the validity of the Hadith? Also, in the Quran it clearly says, "Obey God and obey the Messenger."
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What you say contradicts the Quran, where it says we should follow his lifestyle, but nowhere does it say anything about his laws. All we talks about is that Hadith are historical accurate.
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Yes, by the same people that gave you the Quran, correct? The same people who simply recited out of their memory.
Abrogation is against Islam, you Quranists are confusing Hadith over Tafsir... it's embarrassing.
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Reel, don't be stupid. You take things out of context and Hadith means statements... they have different definitions and it makes no sense how that fits to the verse by its current standard.
Also, Hadith are historical facts... try to disprove this to the orientalists that accept it. You people are unbelievable, Hadith are more reliable than Old Testament and the Gospels, yet, you choose to believe them over Hadith. You need guidance, it becomes clear you are all going astray from God's true and pure path, the path of Salaf.
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peace
Watch this please with a rational mind and you would start to accept true Islam again, this will make you incorporate Hadith in your life and hinder you from going astray.
Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah)
Bukhari Book 7 Volume 62 Hadith 172
Narrated JabirI was with Allah's Apostle in a Ghazwa, and when we returned, I wanted to hurry, while riding a slow camel. A rider came behind me. I looked back and saw that the rider was Allah's Apostle . He said (to me), "What makes you in such a hurry?" I replied, "I am newly married." He said, "Did you marry a virgin or a matron?" I replied, "(Not a virgin but) a matron." He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl with whom you could play and who could play with you?" Then when we approached (Medina) and were going to enter (it), the Prophet said, "Wait till you enter (your homes) at night (in the first part of the night) so that the ladies with unkempt hair may comb their hair, and those whose husbands have been absent (for a long time) may shave their pubic hair." (The sub-narrator, Hashim said A reliable narrator told me that the Prophet added in this Hadith "(Seek to beget) children! Children, O Jabir!"
The above hadith has certainly saved me from straying. Thank you Mr. Bukhari
Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah
Bukhari Book 9 Volume 92 Hadith 464
Narrated AtaI heard Jabir bin 'Abdullah in a gathering saying, "We, the companions of Allah's Apostle assumed the state of Ihram to perform only Hajj without 'Umra." Jabir added, "The Prophet arrived (at Mecca) on the fourth of Dhul-Hijja. And when we arrived (in Mecca) the Prophet ordered us to finish the state of Ihram, saying, "Finish your lhram and go to your wives (for sexual relation)." Jabir added, "The Prophet did not oblige us (to go to our wives) but he only made that legal for us. Then he heard that we were saying, "When there remains only five days between us and the Day of Arafat he orders us to finish our Ihram by sleeping with our wives in which case we will proceed to 'Arafat with our male organs dribbling with semen?' (Jabir pointed out with his hand illustrating what he was saying). Allah's Apostle stood up and said, 'You (People) know that I am the most Allah-fearing, the most truthful and the best doer of good deeds (pious) from among you. If I had not brought the Hadi with me, I would have finished my Ihram as you will do, so finish your Ihram. If I had formerly known what I came to know lately, I would not have brought the Hadi with me.' So we finished our Ihram and listened to the Prophet and obeyed him." (See Hadith No. 713, Vol. 2)
Thank you Mr. Bukhari for the above hadith otherwise we would have gone ASTRAY
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Salaam,
Beautiful aayat, but little correction needed in the above translation.
1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord alone in the Quran, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan"Deaf, dumb, blind. They do not understand."
Too bad that you have shields around your mind and deafness in your ear. -
Reel, don't be stupid
This can get you banned. Refrain from name calling.
You take things out of context and Hadith means statements... they have different definitions and it makes no sense how that fits to the verse by its current standard.
Also, Hadith are historical facts... try to disprove this to the orientalists that accept it. You people are unbelievable, Hadith are more reliable than Old Testament and the Gospels, yet, you choose to believe them over Hadith. You need guidance, it becomes clear you are all going astray from God's true and pure path, the path of Salaf.
If you think the anti hadith verses of Quran have different definitions PROVE IT. Majority of the members here gave you evidence right from the holy book, but you gave us nothing from it. You are just doing "fill up" shallow talks. Is it all you have hadith follower in addition to name calling?
Hadiths have been debunked too many times. I'll give them to you. But we are just a bit too aware of the deceptions you guys exhibit by staying away from those Quran verses while emphasizing the "importance" of hadiths. No no, I aint falling for it. First do what is asked above. If you can't then umm, you know where you are -X.
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It's a shame that sectarian "muslims" seem to ignore the Qu'ran - it's no wonder why Muhammad's only complaint about his people is "They have abandoned this Qur'an"!! (2530)
Consider this....
I am willing to stake that ALL of the problems in the muslim lands are a direct consequence of NOT following the Qur'an, NOT obeying Allah (SWT). We are commanded to obey God and His messenger, who delivered the messege; the Qur'an.
The Message instructs us
- Do NOT be of those who divide into sects.
If you claim to be "sunni", "shia", "salafi", "sufi" etc. these are sects, YOU are being part of the PROBLEM not the solution. You are breaking the law, you are disobeying. This means problems are going to be comming your way.
The only way to obey this command is to say "I am muslim - there are no sects in Islam". Which is the truth of the matter.
But then you are presented with a challenge...
Different "sects" have different beliefs...
However ALL the differences come from hearsays which we are forbidden from following anyway.
- Obey ONLY the Qur'an as a religious source.
Yes, the torah and injeel come from Allah - but they are dated and the words have been changed. The Qur'an is pure and protected.
About haddiths - Allah uses the examples of the jews and their mistake in ignoring the Torah and following traditions...
AND Allah uses His famous rhetoric to warn about not following the haddith.
You see - obeying the 2nd rule makes obeying the 1st rule very easy - the muslim lands would be united - there would be no "muslims fighting muslims".
Don't be deaf, dumb and blind - open your eyes and read the words written in the scripture - it is easy to understand, don't be fooled.
Peace and blessings be upon you all,
Y.S - Do NOT be of those who divide into sects.
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Muslim = Mentally sane
Salaam
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Thank you Mr. Bukhari
Why do you people keep saying "Bukhari" as if he has something to do with this? He wrote nothing, he simply collected what had been said by the Sahaba.
AND YOU ALL IGNORE THE FACT THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO IGNORE HADITH, YOU MUST ALSO IGNORE THE QURAN BECAUSE IT WAS TRANSMITTED TO YOU BY THE SAME PEOPLE. My God, you are all mentally insane. You keep saying "Quran," but do you even know it?
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Salaam hadithete,
No. You should not ignore Quran for it was not transmitted by the same lying tongues and it is a masterpiece and contains riddles showing its authenticity.
And hadith cannot be compared to Quran due to the fact they are all collected afterwards even generations after the alleged events.
What do you even need that garbage for? It helps with nothing. You can hear the wrath of its hate and deception through the tone of compilation. Okay. I understand if you like a Pagan religion you can always follow the hadith a.k.a. Judaism 2.0. (Isa) turned down sectarian dogma like that long ago and exposed sectarianism but people indoctrinated did not heed and the history repeated itself, and most people follow the same today. If a prophet came now he would just shake his head and say "do you never have faith?"
Salaam
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Salaam hadithete,
No. You should not ignore Quran for it was not transmitted by the same lying tongues and it is a masterpiece and contains riddles showing its authenticity.
Prove it, you dishonest preacher. It is a historical fact that Quran was compiled by the Sahaba during Uthman's reign. Are you calling these people for "lying tongues"? Call the Quran the same because it's no different from the Hadith.What you need to grow up and understand from your feeble mind is that a Hadith have narrators, some were recorded by the child of the Sahaba, the most reliable. And others were recorded from Gossip, such as "A said to B said to C said to D said to Y said to X said to H said to B again that he had heard F say to the Prophet..." these are unreliable and we should not take note from this.
Got that? Therefore Sahih Hadith are as reliable as the Quran. If you ignore Sahih Hadith, it is futile to accept Quran, it was transmitted by the same "lying tongues," it is you who need to prove otherwise.
And hadith cannot be compared to Quran due to the fact they are all collected afterwards even generations after the alleged events.
Similarly, Quran was recorded 30 years after Muhammad's death with an equal reliability to the Hadith due to the fact they were recorded by the sons of the Sahaba.What do you even need that garbage for? It helps with nothing.
Quran clearly says numerous of times we need to emulate from our Prophet. Therefore, Sahih Hadith are there to help us. The only garbage here is Quranism that follows a garbage book with a garbage doctrine of heresy. Sahih Hadith are the words of the Messenger and his exegeses represent the Quran.You can hear the wrath of its hate and deception through the tone of compilation.
Such as? Quote from a Sahih Hadith by the closest Sahaba and strong chain of narration.
I understand if you like a Pagan religion you can always follow the hadith a.k.a. Judaism 2.0.
This is another stupidity of yours, just because there are some intolerant Hadith, they do not represent the majority of Hadith. A person need to reject Hadith that contradicts Quran, but when you reject Hadith altogether, you basically put your fingers in your ears because you cannot make a rebuttal to the fact that there is a (weak) Hadith saying Muhammad had sex to a 9 year old girl, because you cannot defend yourself you make the weak excuse, "Hadith... 200 years after... we not supposed to follow it." Shut up, hell yes you are supposed to obey the Messenger of your Lord as recorded in his Hadith.Are you even Arab? It's clear you are some Western heretic trying to "moderate" yourself, but you don't like the term "moderate," so you try to say "I'm just a follower of Quran." Well, when you outright deny the history of Islam, you are a heretic and have no right to call yourself Muslim.
(Isa) turned down sectarian dogma like that long ago and exposed sectarianism but people indoctrinated did not heed and the history repeated itself, and most people follow the same today. If a prophet came now he would just shake his head and say "do you never have faith?"Re-read my first post. I made it clear no one is speaking of law, we are speaking of following the rules of our Messenger, as in accordance to the Quran. Do you also reject Sirat? Disgusting. Then what do you think Surat Al-Fil is all about? Do you think Lokman exists? Well, it is factual he did, but you cannot take notes from Hadith, so you must trying to find an alternative way. The whole historicity of many of the figures in Quran are only recorded in Hadith.
AND YOU REJECT HADITH AS A HISTORICAL SOURCE, WHEN IT IS A FACT BY EVEN ORIENTALISTS DAMN IT! THAT HADITH ARE RELIABLE SOURCES.