Why Quranism Does Not Work & Hadith Are Historically Accurate!
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Thank you Mr. Bukhari
Why do you people keep saying "Bukhari" as if he has something to do with this? He wrote nothing, he simply collected what had been said by the Sahaba.
OK, thank you sahaba for saying such lies and thank you bukhari for collecting the lies.
AND YOU ALL IGNORE THE FACT THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO IGNORE HADITH, YOU MUST ALSO IGNORE THE QURAN BECAUSE IT WAS TRANSMITTED TO YOU BY THE SAME PEOPLE. My God, you are all mentally insane. You keep saying "Quran," but do you even know it?
Red Evidence expected from alQuraan.
May Allah protect us from fabrications, lies and guide us on His only path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam hadithete,
Who is dishonest?
Proven fact? Everything can be fabricated and it is not really like the person of the hadith is a righteous person.
If something is unrighteous and something else is not then you cannot equal them. Quran is a formidable narration and consistent. Your suggestion has to with the conjecture by dishonest clerics and scholars. Quran's real interpretation and that hadith do not even speak of the same thing, so how can you relate them?
Quran's traditional historical record is highly questionable and I am not sure how you can compare the coherent and wise language with that hadith. They are not even on the same level.
Emulate the prophet, well it is ALLAH you are supposed to emulate and the messenger/beacon. And the prophet of Quran does not teach anything deviating from what has already been taught. The prophet from that hadith is not really a role model but often unrighteous and hypocritical.
What do you mumble about? And we can wonder how is relaying foolishness.
Do you desire to follow a Pagan religion (sect) you are free to do so, but I like to be of the sound ones (Al-Muslimeen).
Yes I reject hadith as a historical source because it is just a pile of kufr'ed conjecture that throws dirt on the compilation called Quran of spiritual teachings.
Do you have the right or prerequisite to call yourself Muslim? Are you sound? Do you not follow a sectarian doctrine blindly? Do you even know what Quran teaches?
What is heresy? A human term to curse someone who chooses a way?
Call me stupid, heretic or whatever else you are about to say because that only shows how un-muslim you are and how little you understand about the spirituality conveyed by Quran. You focus on a worldly doctrine and it is what you will get. The Jinnah is appealing to you, watch out so you do not get Jehennah.
I urge you to tone down on your rhetoric considered the forum rules and for the sake of peace.
Salaam
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May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon you
Hadithe, u stated"
The only garbage here is Quranism that follows a garbage book with a garbage doctrine of heresy."Do you even know what book we want to follow? Its called the Quran. So why are you calling it garbage? Nobody is offering other books beside the quran except you.
The Quran is from God, complete, fully detailed, explaining everything small and big. Do you believe that? If not please go sell ur books somewhere else.
People are quoting Quran and what do you quote?
Is there any hadith better then the quran?
Please calm down and show us your proofs, is there another relevation beside the quran that came down on muhammad?
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Listen to what you can do, use the Ahadith ...
No can't do!
G-D is the only, relevant Lawmaker.
That's true, what relevance does that have to do with the validity of the Hadith?
The relevance comes into view when these spurious anecdotes of yours start inserting/adding (man-made) laws/rulings/rules of conduct and attributing them to our Master and/or His messenger/s; when in fact Legislation (م belongs to G-D alone (657, 1240, 1267, 1341, 1826, 550, etc)!
The so-called "sunna nabawiyah/prophetic tradition" (= a misnomer) that the Tagut conditioned us/you to acknowledge as sacrosanct was NEVER authorized by G-D! Our Master imparted no sanction for it"! Moreover, according to the Quran, the prophet followed and propogated the Divine inspiration alone.
Sectarian Traditionalists (like your-current-self) are too brainwashed to face the facts (of reality).
Unlike the Quran, the Hadith corpus does not qualify as "primary source" material in the first place since it was compiled hundreds of years after the written Quran (as evidenced by the manuscripts we have)!
Also, in the Quran it clearly says, "Obey God and obey the Messenger."
Shame on you, quoting G-D out of context (to misguide)!
~ I recommend you stop replying to me,
I'm not interested in shooting sitting ducks
not for now at least. -
Peace Hadithete.
What does Qoran say?
Qoran 1827] You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it.
Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
These are God's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?
Is it the law of the days of ignorance that they seek to uphold? Whose law is better than God's for those who have attained certainty?
If you do not agree with the translation, quote your own translation of these verses and see what GOD is saying to you here?
Was Mohammed allowed to add his own words or anyone elses words to Qoran?
This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.
Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.
Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed.
A revelation from the Lord of the universe.
Had he uttered any other teachings. We would have punished him.
We would have stopped the revelations to him.Sahih, Authentic or whatever you call it, Only Qoran is allowed as authority,the only hadith, authored by the Lord of the universe. !!!!!!
Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "God's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran* has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside God." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."
We are fully aware of everything they utter, while you have no power over them. Therefore, remind with this Quran, those who reverence My warnings.
GOD chooses His words carefully, if He( No gender intended) wanted us to follow other "Sahih/Authentic "hadiths he would have said "This Qoran and ...hadiths". Did he?!!!!
And finally
Let them produce a Hadith like this, if they are truthful.
Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?
God has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God's message. Such is God's guidance; He bestows it upon whoever wills (to be guided). As for those sent astray by God, nothing can guide them.
We would like to obey GOD and follow His Hadith, Qoran alone.
You also have the choice ,follow your hadiths.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I am tired of your apologetic excuses, you're on a lost cause when you cannot refute the fact that Quran was transmitted to you by the same companions that transmitted you the Hadith. This is a fact, not an opinion that you can disagree with. Feel free to watch this video https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Susl-QCNCjA
Who is dishonest?
You.
Proven fact? Everything can be fabricated and it is not really like the person of the hadith is a righteous person.
This is a proven fact. About "anything can be fabricated and no person of the hadith is a righteous person," I suppose this means Quran was all a fabrication made by a companion of Muhammad, most likely Uthman, am I correct? You do realize current Quran is in his designed chronology and then you still continue to believe Quran is a revelation that was not transmitted by those companions, yet disregard hadith that was? You make no logical sense, but that's the norm with the Quranists, they do not know any logic. The whole sect is founded on a misconception that can and has been debunked.
If something is unrighteous and something else is not then you cannot equal them. Quran is a formidable narration and consistent.
You claim this by putting history besides, surely you can claim "Quran is a formidable narration and consistent," but if you reject hadith as a fabrication of a mad man's imagination, then you should do the same to the Quran if you don't want to look like a stupid hypocrite. Also, Quran is not consistent in its current format, its chronology is absolutely incoherent and designed by how Uthman wanted to design the Quran as, Surat Yusuf is the only one consistent.
Your suggestion has to with the conjecture by dishonest clerics and scholars. Quran's real interpretation and that hadith do not even speak of the same thing, so how can you relate them?
Alright, I am going to explain this real easy, you blind-believing, dogmatic fool, this is not a "suggestion" based on "conjecture," yours is however. Mine is based on a simple historical fact, not by a clergy or scholar, but by historians, academics and others that know these stuff far more advanced than where your petty faith-knowledge goes. How I relate them? Because they come from the same historical source, God damn it. Are you too dull to understand this or what?
Quran's traditional historical record is highly questionable and I am not sure how you can compare the coherent and wise language with that hadith. They are not even on the same level.
Firstly, your choice of word here is "traditional." This is flawed and refuted by the orientalist Marshall Hodgson in his book The Venture of Islam. Secondly, you question the historical record, why? Those who do deny it is refuted by the majority of orientalists and amateurs like Christoph Luxenburgh are debunked heavily. We have empiric proof of the Sasaa manuscript which conforms with the "traditional" (factual) dating. Likewise, Hadith are (regardless of your acceptance) in the same level, the authentic ones that is. Truth hurts, I know, but that's how it is; your current stance on religion is flawed, but accept Hadith and go on the right path.
Emulate the prophet, well it is ALLAH you are supposed to emulate and the messenger/beacon. And the prophet of Quran does not teach anything deviating from what has already been taught. The prophet from that hadith is not really a role model but often unrighteous and hypocritical.
Another retardation of the Quranists is their outright denial of what is written in the Quran No credible scholar is a Quranist since that school of though is so weak it doesn't answer how many prayers a Muslim should pray a day or even how to pray properly. Having watched and read a lot of scholars of different schools, I never came across an honest genuine Quranist. Quranism also fails to put the Quran in its historical context when in fact a lot of verses in the Quran can only be reasonably understood in their context. That's with regard to scholars.With regard to the Muslim population, Quranists are strictly a Western Muslim phenomenon. They have very little support among Muslims in Muslim countries. Muslims who live the in the West tend to prefer "moderate" Islam. And Quranism can be seen as very "moderate." Sadly, it's also very non-Islamic. This concept is rejected by mainstream scholars.
The Quran itself cannot be interpreted by any one person in his own lifetime to its fullest when considering the language of traditional Arabic, the context of revealed verses, and the era it was revealed in. Tafseer (interpretation) may help aid a reader in some cases, but is not enough. It needs to be complimented by the actual life of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his day-to-day practices of the revelation.
For this many schools of thought have dedicated many generations of scholars to a lifetime of research in order to provide the most accurate way to implement the teachings of Islam.
Schools like Shafii Hanafi Hambali and Maliki have done the research for us, many of whom differ on details based on certain cases in the Prophet's (PBUH) life, however all are correct and acceptable to follow as defined guidelines.
People who choose not to follow a school of thought and think they can interpret the Quran the way they choose based on their own influences and dispositions in their current climate, may very easily take verses out of context or create a false premise based on an invalid assumption, and would be truly lost in faith.
Some may even justify an act of atrocity because they wanted to read a verse in such a way that it may suit their own stance, and that is leading away from the authenticity that Islam prides itself on. That is leading away from the straight path.
O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.
I suppose that you're not one who believes. And you're disgusting if you claim the man who brought the Quran is "unrighteous," this is heretical, which is why no orientalist relies on you people because you cannot provide any evidence and that which you have is from a book that you even desperately denies its own origins.
What do you mumble about? And we can wonder how is relaying foolishness.
O shut up, you're the stupidest person I have ever met.
Do you desire to follow a Pagan religion (sect) you are free to do so, but I like to be of the sound ones (Al-Muslimeen).
If you watch the video, you would understand that most Quranists have the same attitude as you do. I was one like you too, I thought I followed "true Islam" and not this materialized cult that the other Muslims followed, but you know what I realized? That history proves me wrong because if I was going to reject hadith I was going to reject Quran due to they were transmitted by the same source. I kept getting allegations from people like "Muhammad raped a 9 year old girl," or Muhammad beheaded many Jews in Bani Qurayza, I found this, as every Western Muslim, to be repulsive. I did not accept its authenticity, but seemingly most clerics accepted it to be valid. Thus, I thought that if I put my fingers inside my ears the facts will somehow disappear, but this is just one way before you know you loses faith and apostate. Recently, I have become rationalized and gone back to the path of God by refuting these Hadith's authenticity, but not rejecting them overall, which is not the ideal way and you must learn this if you want to be of the Muslimeen, right now, you're a Munkar.
Yes I reject hadith as a historical source because it is just a pile of kufr'ed conjecture that throws dirt on the compilation called Quran of spiritual teachings.
This is why you are historically, scientifically, religiously wrong and why you're on the wrong path and the only kufr here is you and the obvious conjecture of the Quranist in regards to the interpretations of Quranic verses and about the hard-core, factual Islamic history that outright deny (not reject, but deny, in the same sense, one denies Holocaust or Evolution). An excellent example of what happens when you're a Quranist is these wrong interpretations that conflicts with those already accepted by prophet Muhammad himself, such as Isa is in fact Jesus and who said this? Muhammad, but Quranists reject Hadith and quite possibly even the founder of Islam himself, therefore, who are you to understand? That's right, nobody, therefore you can come with the most stupidest heretical interpretations. And surely, I have a hard time accepting the second coming of Jesus Christ, but if you do an examination, you would find out the Ahadith on those subjects are unreliable, but not the whole Hadith.
Do you have the right or prerequisite to call yourself Muslim? Are you sound? Do you not follow a sectarian doctrine blindly? Do you even know what Quran teaches?
Yes, yes, no, yes. I will ask you the same thing here, do you?
What is heresy? A human term to curse someone who chooses a way?
No, s human term to describe someone choosing a blatantly wrong of faith accepted to not just be a minor differences of opinion, but a man who could very well be of another religion. If Muhammad was a Christian, he would be a heretic due to his Arian opinions in regards to the consensual interpretation. Not "a way," but a wrong way. Therefore, do not consider yourself Muslim, because you're not, you're a kaffir with Western background that is repelled by false images of Islam and tries to moderate it.
Call me stupid, heretic or whatever else you are about to say because that only shows how un-muslim you are and how little you understand about the spirituality conveyed by Quran. You focus on a worldly doctrine and it is what you will get. The Jinnah is appealing to you, watch out so you do not get Jehennah.
This is conjecture and a personal opinion scattered on me. Get the hell off me. I do understand the profound spirituality in Quran, which is why I reject materialist interpretation that Adam is 60 cubits tall or that he even existed, instead I see the parables and esoteric aspect of Quran, but this does not interfere with the Sunnah, also known as the way of life of a true Muslim, how to understand with context and learn about the history of Quran. I do not focus on an earthly doctrine instead I focus on a worldly or heavenly doctrine, I am a spiritual person, but I have an objection to stupid Quranists that thinks this is not possible without Hadith.You're dismissed, debunked, refuted. Goodbye.
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O Hadithete
You haven't proved that http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607369.msg365850#msg365850 have verses with different meanings. I am waiting for it. Come on, don't run away. Show it to us.I am tired of your apologetic excuses, you're on a lost cause when you cannot refute the fact that Quran was transmitted to you by the same companions that transmitted you the Hadith.
What do you mean by transmitted? Orally huh?
But it seems Quran tells us that the Prophet actually wrote it all down. To you, its a "garbage" book. Therefore, its verses might not make much difference in your opinion. Yet I am pasting them below.
These are tales from the past that he wrote down. They are being dictated to him day and night" 255
Read, and your Lord, Most Generous, teaches by means of the pen 963-4And it looks like there was no need for putting the Quran verses together.
And thus We have sent down to you the Qur'an. And those to whom We gave the Scripture believe in it. And among these are those who believe in it. And none reject Our verses except the disbelievers.2947Feel free to watch this video https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Susl-QCNCjA
Ah, this one video proved that Nouman Ali is a pure con artist. He was refuted here https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHvQhbIchaI
if you reject hadith as a fabrication of a mad man's imagination, then you should do the same to the Quran if you don't want to look like a stupid hypocrite.
Nah, actually Quran has enough evidence that its directly from Almighty Allah. Those who see god in scholars will never be able to see it.
Now please, refute http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607369.msg365850#msg365850
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I am tired of your apologetic excuses, you're on a lost cause when you cannot refute the fact that Quran was transmitted to you by the same companions that transmitted you the Hadith. This is a fact, not an opinion that you can disagree with.
Please prove it!
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
O Hadithete
You haven't proved that http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607369.msg365850#msg365850 have verses with different meanings. I am waiting for it. Come on, don't run away. Show it to us.
Take it in context, you fool. It's clear that it says something else in context, but non-Muslims likes to quote Quran out of context to let it suit their agendas https//primaquran.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/does-the-holy-quran-instruct-us-to-disregard-all-hadith/The only proof is to read, go and read the full thing.
What do you mean by transmitted? Orally huh?
But it seems Quran tells us that the Prophet actually wrote it all down. To you, its a "garbage" book. Therefore, its verses might not make much difference in your opinion. Yet I am pasting them below.
These are tales from the past that he wrote down. They are being dictated to him day and night" 255
Read, and your Lord, Most Generous, teaches by means of the pen 963-4
You shouldn't be too stupid to accept history confirming us the fact that it was written down by Uthman, a companion. The garbage book here is not Quran, but your interpretations of the Quran; which, of course, are not accepted by the majority of the scholars. Once again you are quoting out of context, you disgusting kaffir, do you not have any dignity? God clearly says that one who misrepresents him will be taking to Hellfire, the same did Muhammad say about fabricated Ahadith.Have you read the Quran or you just a dishonest liar, the Paul of Islam? 255 clearly says that the KUFFAR THINKS MUHAMMAD WROTE DOWN THE QURAN, in your own words, you think Quran was written by him, therefore you're a kaffir with support from Quran.
THE REAL VERSE AND NOT THE FAKE QURANIST VERSE And they say, "Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."
Can't you just admit to be on the wrong path and start to accept Hadith again and become a good Muslim?
The other chapter does not talk about the Prophet, you are a liar.
And it looks like there was no need for putting the Quran verses together.
And thus We have sent down to you the Qur'an. And those to whom We gave the Scripture believe in it. And among these are those who believe in it. And none reject Our verses except the disbelievers.2947
Ah, this one video proved that Nouman Ali is a pure con artist. He was refuted here https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHvQhbIchaI Nah, actually Quran has enough evidence that its directly from Almighty Allah. Those who see god in scholars will never be able to see it.
You're a stupid kaffir and the video is wrong. You're dismissed. -
That's common knowledge, go and read Islamic history from every orientalist and you would know.
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Making curries and chapatis is a common knowledge that does not make it Islamic.
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And when you made a claim for something, you have to prove it. If I say, this house belongs to me, then I have bring forward the documents, I cannot say go and check the municipal office for yourself.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
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Take it in context, you fool. It's clear that it says something else in context, but non-Muslims likes to quote Quran out of context to let it suit their agendas https//primaquran.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/does-the-holy-quran-instruct-us-to-disregard-all-hadith/
lol, the guy debunked nothing. He has only one verse which is
?But there are, among men, those who purchase lahwa alhadith (vain hadith), without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path) for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.? (Holy Qur?an 316)
This same verse is also used by your divine scholar to ban music.Unfortunately, Hadith books are fully idle talks because Science of hadith is flawed. Check here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607368.msg365943#msg365943
He didn't even dare to touchBy the way, has hadith of Abraham reached you means has story of Abraham reached you. Allah isn't saying in this if the Prophet heard the correct story.
And for your information, I visited that link before many times. So it isn't new to me.
The only proof is to read, go and read the full thing. You shouldn't be too stupid to accept history confirming us the fact that it was written down by Uthman, a companion. The garbage book here is not Quran, but your interpretations of the Quran; which, of course, are not accepted by the majority of the scholars. Once again you are quoting out of context, you disgusting kaffir, do you not have any dignity? God clearly says that one who misrepresents him will be taking to Hellfire, the same did Muhammad say about fabricated Ahadith.
Umm, its funny that a liar calls someone else liar.
These are your own words
Quran clearly says numerous of times we need to emulate from our Prophet. Therefore, Sahih Hadith are there to help us. The only garbage here is Quranism that follows a garbage book with a garbage doctrine of heresy. Sahih Hadith are the words of the Messenger and his exegeses represent the Quran.
We follow no book other than Quran and you are here to argue about it and hadith. There was no mention of any other book.Have you read the Quran or you just a dishonest liar, the Paul of Islam? 255 clearly says that the KUFFAR THINKS MUHAMMAD WROTE DOWN THE QURAN, in your own words, you think Quran was written by him, therefore you're a kaffir with support from Quran.
You can call me kuffar as much as you want. This doesn't have any effect in me, for it doesn't remove my devotion to Allah from my heart and plus, you are not him.
THE REAL VERSE AND NOT THE FAKE QURANIST VERSE And they say, "Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."
Actually legends, tales and fables are all synonym of one another.
Check
Sahih International And they say, "Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."Pickthall And they say Fables of the men of old which he hath had written down so that they are dictated to him morn and evening.
Yusuf Ali And they say "Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written and they are dictated before him morning and evening."
Shakir And they say The stories of the ancients-- he has got them written-- so these are read out to him morning and evening.
Can't you just admit to be on the wrong path and start to accept Hadith again and become a good Muslim?
The other chapter does not talk about the Prophet, you are a liar. You're a stupid kaffir and the video is wrong. You're dismissed.
I don't know whether I am a good Muslim. I try to be one. But in no way I will ever believe in hadiths because they seem to make people
Curse at others
Avoid Quran verses
Call it a garbage
Believe in men more than Allah
Can provide no proof of their belief
and the list continues.
If you haven't understood it, just look at yourself.And oh, why do you even care whether I am on the right path? I didn't send you marriage proposal. I don't live inside your body. I am not your slave.
As for history, never knew it ever told the full truth. hmm
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Salam Hadithete,
I disagree with your observations.
Firstly everyone?s spiritual path differs. No Quranists denies the prophet Muhammad as a historical figure. Besides being a hadithist doesn?t make you know ALL the information about him. Moreover according to hadith literature, Aisha refers to the prophet as the walking Quran.
Famous muslim scholars of the past have said if you find faults in a hadith not to follow it. If you feel spiritually closer to God by following ahadith of the prophet?s sunnah, there is no harm though to say it?s obligated is another thing all together. You seem to imply that the Quran mentions nothing about the prophet. Your view is very subjective.
In terms of uniformity within different rival sects, what sects do you mean and what practises? If you read into history many sects existed that do not exist today, politics and power had an influence on this. Another thing homogenisation of practises exists today because of many reasons. If majority of practise was the rule to salvation then sorry to say you?ve got a twisted view. Also if you?re so comfortable with following the majority of people because of their conformity of practises maybe you should read about the orientalists views of the ?living sunnah?, that might comfort your distressed heart.
Wakas made an interesting post some time back, which can help you see the logic of accepting the Quran?s authority over hadith.
The Quran = God's Word
Ahadith = man's wordThe Quran = 100% fact/truth/perfect
Ahadith = mix of truth and falsehood (hence weak and strong hadith)The Quran = recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet Muhammad
Ahadith = not recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet MuhammadThe Quran = written AND memorised word for word as soon as it was transmitted
Ahadith = no-one ever claimed to record and memorise ahadith word for word as soon as it was transmittedThe Quran = protected explicitly by God Himself as stated in The Quran
Ahadith = no such explicit protection statedThe Quran = no Muslim doubts its credibility
Ahadith = each sect has its own versions, weak & strong ones etcThe Quran = in-built verification mechanism, e.g. challenges others to find inconsistancy, bring a chapter like it etc.
Ahadith = no such in-built mechanism, full of inconsistancies etc.Not even a traditional muslim will argue with the Quran's authority over hadith. To say they are just the same because of the transmitters is an insult. It's not purely the glory of transmitters, it's the fastidious methodology. Hadith recording is no where near as meticulous.
Heretic interpretation can come from anyone, things you mention are not agreed by all ?Quranists?.
It?s interesting how you see orientalists as having a more valid account of historical accuracy to hadith than muslim scholars.
Congrats to you that you learn of the life of the prophet Muhammad. If you are true and genuine in your path to God, not just here to argue and prove a point then I recommend you to read.
http//www.scribd.com/doc/119660399/dialogues-of-hadith-different-perceptions-and-insights
Once you?ve read it, tell me your thoughts.
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Sure, you can reject Tafsir, which are garbage by the way, but it is absolutely stupid (and wrong) to reject Hadith. How can you accept Quran as a revelation when you reject Hadith? Don't you realize it was conveyed by the same Sahaba who gave you Ahadith? Tafsir, however, were first dominant in the eleventh century by Ibn Kathir, we can reject his interpretations, but Hadith are still history.
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That's true, what relevance does that have to do with the validity of the Hadith? Also, in the Quran it clearly says, "Obey God and obey the Messenger."
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What you say contradicts the Quran, where it says we should follow his lifestyle, but nowhere does it say anything about his laws. All we talks about is that Hadith are historical accurate.
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Yes, by the same people that gave you the Quran, correct? The same people who simply recited out of their memory.
Abrogation is against Islam, you Quranists are confusing Hadith over Tafsir... it's embarrassing.
The highlights bit, How do you obey God and Obey the messenger? It's quite simple. God's word was delivered to the messenger, The Prophet Muhammed. What is that message? The Quran of course! It's actually a very very very simple concept to grasp. The Prophet didn't have a book of hadith in addition to the message, so how was he able to be a practising muslim?? Since we know he did not seek to change or was never given permission to change any of God's laws. Yet your hadith says he went on the miraj, ascended the heavens and confronted God and bargained with him to change the amount of daily prayers for the believers. This is the most blasphemous thing I have ever read. If you believe this, then you are saying God does not know what is best for his creations?? That one among them needs to point out to God what is better for the people??? Then did God make a mistake? How can that be? When the Quran states that we have been given detailed and COMPLETE guidance.
Seriously do some critical thinking here.
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You can call me kuffar as much as you want. This doesn't have any effect in me, for it doesn't remove my devotion to Allah from my heart and plus, you are not him.
I don't know whether I am a good Muslim. I try to be one.
Peace,
bravo bravo bravo
May Allah grant you the best reward pr
mmKhan -
Quranist come in four main categories. 1. Follow quran and Islamic traditions that does not contradict the quran and Islamic rituals 2 Follow quran and Islamic rituals only 3 Follow quran and previous scriptures. 4 Follow quran only. All are acceptable as long as you reject abrogation of any verse of the quran, or any tradition that contradicts an explicit verse of the quran and not make binding what the quran did not do so through an explicit verse. Explicit verses are verses that the majority agree in its interpretation. Some quranist also follow other religion rituals that does not contradict or violate the quran. All are acceptable.
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Peace Hadithete
For one, it basically eradicates Muhammad as a historical figure or example to emulate or learn from. He just becomes some unknown shadow, a mere mouthpiece that dictated the Quran. That's what happens when you throw out all the information about him.
I suppose that this is true to some extent. I do think that the quran in this instance should be enough to lean on as a guide to the system, as it explains al/kitab , where there is no living embodiment of that system. I believe the rasool was more than a mere mouthpiece.
Also, if you regard Quran to be the Word of God, how do you reject Ahadith when Hadith were transmitted by the same Companions as those that transmitted you the Quran? This is some of the stupidity with Quranism.
Stupidity aside I think it is made plain that the quran was written not after the passing of the messenger but during his life .
Now, sure, some Hadith are unethical, but that's the reason why we need to verify them by orientalists as historical accurate (and we have a lot of them) and not some clergy of Saudi Arabia with all of his dogmatism.
"So in what hadeeth after this will they acknowledge?"
I do not believe that God sent down a system where his followers also had to sift through its lies, inaccuracies, or fabrications. God did ask that we be critical , sure, but I do not think the system He sent was supposed to be full of mistakes, lies, fabrications, inaccuracies, etc .
Evil persists in the pursuit to smash truth and thus one comes to lose . Truth shows fabrications for what they are and those submitting to it fear no power on earth save God's .
I learn from his wisdom, knowledge and ethical philosophies. I base this mystic, proverbial wisdom as a way of following his path, using him as an example as accorded to the Quran.
I think, in a way, the system is not necessarily his, though it is his to follow if he will . It is rather God's given to him and those who would heed and practice it. I do not think the messenger was a mere mouthpiece and I'm in agreement with you on this. He did not just come with the quran and say "Here take this, that is all." I think, however, it should be kept in mind that even in the quran the rasool has been admonished for his mistakes and corrected therein. I think that even if you care to follow the ahadeeth collections of his so-called followers then the quran should be the thing that at the very least shows if the practice is in line with its teachings or even necessary at all. Think about what I mentioned about the admonishment of the rasool in the quran.
Joe
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Salaam everyone,
Even though I disagree with the fundamental viewpoint of Hadithete and denounce the way he/she portrayed his/her personality and character, he/she does have one valid point which does not have any rebuttal at this time, and this point allows others to attack the very authenticity of the quran itself in discussions about al-quran and the so called "hadith".
It is a fact that there is no evidence that the current quranic text is exactly the same as the original quranic text revealed to prophet Muhammad. Just like there is zero evidence about authenticity of the unverifiable hearsay known as "hadith", there is zero evidence about the authenticity of the current quranic text as 100% divinely inspired.
If person A claims the current quranic text is 100% divinely inspired and is the same as the original quranic text revealed to the prophet, and person B claims it is not, the burden of proof lies on person A to present evidence proving the premise.
The quranic verses regarding such authenticity such as 159, 4142 cannot unfortunately be presented as evidence because of the fallacy of circular argument. The evidence has to be external to al-quran (4153) in order to be acceptable and presentable as valid rebuttal to the hadithist argument of the current text of al-quran being transmitted many years after the death of the prophet, by the same people who transmitted hadith.
Yes, according to the quran, it was written down in the time of the prophet but there are three problems with this argument
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This is a circular argument. The quran was written down in the time of the prophet because the quran says so is a circular argument and cannot be accepted as evidence that the current quranic text is the one that was written down in the prophet's time, or whether the quran was actually written down in the prophet's time.
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The original quranic text revealed to the prophet and written down in his time has not yet been discovered so there is no way to verify the authenticity of the current quranic text as per itself (4153).
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The Sanaa manuscripts come close to the smoking gun and the missing link, but the Sanaa palimpsests contain significant deviations and contradictions with the current quranic text, which opens up a whole new can of worms, and strengthens the hadithist argument.
Until the original quranic text is discovered, the only reasonable alternative we are left with is to use our inner compass/conscience, mind/reasoning, and real world evidence to ascertain the truth and distinguish it from falsehood, even if it claims to be allegedly divinely inspired.
Just my 2 cents.
Salaam
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