Most beautiful Explanation of Quran only Muslims
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Found something interesting online today. Its a post that describes those who follow Quran only. Its beautifully done and thus, I thought it deserves a read. I am pasting it below. Not sure if the person is one of us from here. Before you read this note that he keeps calling us Quranists and describes a division. It may offend you.
There is a perception by Muslims that the Quran can be understood in its entirety. This is impossible. There is no person in the world that can understand the Quran in its entirety. The Quran says so itself. The difference between Quranist and Sunnis is that Quranist know their limitations. The Quran tells us that all we need to know is there but the Quran has its secrets. Some of them are made as baits to see what spin people try to use to distort its teachings.
The bottom line is, as a Quranist my interpretation of the Quran is based on the actual reading of the Quran while Sunnis and Shias follow stories and narrations and most of their deen is not Quranic. A Quranist may not bother eating with his right hand or making 7 tawwaf, but for a Sunni or Shia its very important. The fact that its very impoprtant for them but it is not something you can actual read in the Quran says a lot about the place the Quran has with these sects. Which is not much. The reality is 90% of the teachings of these sects is not Quranic. They say the Quran is the first source, yet rarely does the first source agree with what they say.
No Quranist can accept abrogation since this means that there are verses in the Quran that are useless and have no value. Then what its doing there? This is something thats unacceptable for a Quranist and its a way once again to marginalize the Quran.
Lastly a Quranist has different approaches to the deen. A Quranist will see the rituals as a means to an end while the sects see the rituals as an end by itself. The Quranist will see universality in faith in God while the sects see faith as sectarian. A Quranist will believe in freedom while the sects believe in religious dictatorship. The Quranist believe his job is to invite while the sects believe their job is to enforce and by violence if necessary. The Quranist will see prophet Muhammad as a prophet and messenger while the sects see him as the message itself. A Quranist see the Quran as a book of guidance while the sects see it as a book of reference and ritual. A Quranist believes that God is seperate from human while the sects see God as connected to human through the prophet Muhammad. The Quranist sees the prophet Muhammad as a human being who has the authority of a human being while the sects see him as a human with the authority of God.
I think the biggest difference is the concept of freedom and individuality. The Quranist believe every man is responsible for his own salvation and the Quran is his guide, while the sects believe the community and state and clerics are responsible for man's salvation and the Quran must not be approached by man on his own.
Big difference and its hard to see how these differences can be reconciled but its also hard to see how someone can claim he is following the Quran and the Sunnah. One has to win over the other since they are mutually exclusive. For the Quranist the Quran is final while for the sects the Sunnah is final.
Either the prophet had a split personality or this Sunnah is not his. There is no third option. The Quranist and the sects can never ever get along. The Quranist believe in freedom but the sects are dictatorial. It might lead to an ugly confrontation, but the Quranits will be ready. We will never abandon the Quran.
Quran is peace!
Source http//pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/questions-to-the-quranist-1
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Though, i prefer to be called "Muslim", am not offended by the term Qur'anist. I don't see us as a sect, even when we are tagged "Qur'anists", because we don't have a clergy or pre-written codes and dogmas like typical sects do.
I think that is a good write-up.
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The description of a muslim in the Quran is the one who believes in 'one and only unseen God and does good work.' And nothing else is required.
Waman ahsanu qawlan mimman daAAaila Allahi waAAamila salihan waqalainnanee mina almuslimeena (4133)
Who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who are muslimeen." (4133)
Wawassayna al-insanabiwalidayhi ihsanan hamalat-hu ommuhukurhan wawadaAAat-hu kurhan wahamluhu wafisaluhuthalathoona shahran hatta ithabalagha ashuddahu wabalagha arbaAAeena sanatan qala rabbiawziAAnee an ashkura niAAmataka allatee anAAamta AAalayya waAAalawalidayya waan aAAmala salihan tardahuwaaslih lee fee thurriyyatee innee tubtuilayka wa-innee mina almuslimeena (4615)
We instructed the human being to honor his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his weaning lasts thirty months. Until he has attained his maturity, and reaches forty years, he says "My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do righteousness that pleases You. Let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who are muslims." (4615)
All other requirements are for the 'Mumins". The next stage. Not everyone can easily achieve the status of being a 'mumin'.
Wa-itha yutla AAalayhim qalooamanna bihi innahu alhaqqu min rabbinainna kunna min qablihi muslimeena (2853)
If it is recited to them, they say, "We acknowledge it. It is the truth from our Lord. Indeed, we were muslims before it." (2853)
When such people decide to take the next advanced step and uphold the traits of the 'Faithful' in the Book, they attain TWICE the reward
Ola-ika yutawna ajrahum marrataynibima sabaroo wayadraoona bialhasanatialssayyi-ata wamimma razaqnahum yunfiqoona (2854)
"To these We grant twice the reward for that they have been patient. And they counter evil with good, and from Our provisions to them, they give." (2854)
Mumins are described as follows
Innama almuminoona allatheenaamanoo biAllahi warasoolihi thumma lam yartaboowajahadoo bi-amwalihim waanfusihim fee sabeeli Allahiola-ika humu alssadiqoona (4915)
"Mumins (believers) are those who have faith in God and His messengers and attain the status of having no doubt whatsoever and Strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones.
Innama almuminoona allatheenaitha thukira Allahu wajilat quloobuhum wa-ithatuliyat AAalayhim ayatuhu zadat-hum eemananwaAAala rabbihim yatawakkaloona (82)
"The true faithful are those whose hearts tremble when GOD is mentioned and when His revelations are recited to them, their faith is strengthened and they trust in their Lord"
Allatheena yuqeemoona alssalatawamimma razaqnahum yunfiqoona (83)
"They help establish salla (the divine system) and from Our provisions to them they spend."
Ola-ika humu almuminoona haqqanlahum darajatun AAinda rabbihim wamaghfiratun warizqunkareemun (84)
"These are the true believers; they will have high ranks with their Lord and a forgiveness and a generous provision." (84)
Most of us are not able to differentiate and we call ourselves 'muslim' just because we pray five time a day and follow other rituals.
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The description of a muslim in the Quran is the one who believes in 'one and only unseen God and does good work.' And nothing else is required.
Waman ahsanu qawlan mimman daAAaila Allahi waAAamila salihan waqalainnanee mina almuslimeena (4133)
Who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who are muslimeen." (4133)
Correct it's a definition of a muslim but it's not the definition of "The Quran Only Muslim".
Most of us are not able to differentiate and we call ourselves 'muslim' just because we pray five time a day and follow other rituals.
Of course, name and ritual doesn't really matter, there are Jewish muslim, Christian muslim, Buddhist muslim, Chinese muslim, Taoist muslim, Coptic muslim, Slavic muslim, Thai muslim Quran Only muslim, Sunni muslim, Shiite muslim etc.. etc...
When Jesus found unbelief on their part he said "Who will be my helpers to God?"
Said the disciples "We are God's helpers, We believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are muslim".
(350)So "what is the proper label" for the disciple of Jesus?
Jews? Christian? Muslim? or "Jewish Christian Muslim"?
Doesn't really matter.. devise any label that you want... it's the deed that matter..Salam / Peace
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Though, i prefer to be called "Muslim", am not offended by the term Qur'anist. I don't see us as a sect, even when we are tagged "Qur'anists", because we don't have a clergy or pre-written codes and dogmas like typical sects do.
I think that is a good write-up.
I have the same opinion. I guess when someone wishes to show the difference between the followers of Quran and followers of hadiths its much easier to use the word "Quranist". It saves time P But as far as I know its the hadith followers who began using this term on us. I cannot confirm it though.
Correct it's a definition of a muslim but it's not the definition of "The Quran Only Muslim".
Fully agree
The description of a muslim in the Quran is the one who believes in 'one and only unseen God and does good work.' And nothing else is required.
True, but this is what sometimes confuses me a lot. What about partnering Allah with a human or another being? The post I gave above seems to have captured the big picture. I missed it before coming across this writing. Now I see how sects have turned Islam into a human worshiping cult. A sunni has to copy a human to get his salvation. He must eat, dress and do most stuffs like Prophet Muhammad. That's similar to idolizing a celebrity and how Christians say that salvation is received through Jesus. That's like going back to square one.
peace
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I have the same opinion. I guess when someone wishes to show the difference between the followers of Quran and followers of hadiths its much easier to use the word "Quranist". It saves time P But as far as I know its the hadith followers who began using this term on us. I cannot confirm it though.
Interestingly true, as per definition, there isn't much of a difference between Quranist and Hadithist..
Both parties worships a book (or a series of books).
And both parties share the same 'mindset'..
It's understandable given the majority of the Quranist has Hadithist cultural background.True, but this is what sometimes confuses me a lot. What about partnering Allah with a human or another being?
Partnering Allah with a human or another being?
I assume that include a book?Now I see how sects have turned Islam into a human worshiping cult. A sunni has to copy a human to get his salvation. He must eat, dress and do most stuffs like Prophet Muhammad. That's similar to idolizing a celebrity and how Christians say that salvation is received through Jesus. That's like going back to square one.
It's the definition of a sect / religion / cult..
And starting a new sect / religion / cult will not solve the problem caused by sectarianism, religionism or occultism.."We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein
Salam / Peace
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.. there isn't much of a difference between Quranist and Hadithist..
Both parties worships a book (or a series of books).
And both parties share the same 'mindset'..
It's understandable given the majority of the Quranist has Hadithist cultural background.Partnering Allah with a human or another being?
I assume that include a book?I beg to differ,
sensibly following Divine Guidance ain't the same as blindly following apocrypha !
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I beg to differ,
sensibly following Divine Guidance ain't the same as blindly following apocrypha !
Well there are lot of "Hadithist" who are also following "Divine Guidance" and not blindly following the book of hadiths, Quran or Cleric's command and instruction.
Not much of a difference.. -
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Peace Jafar.
Please give these so called "dilluded" persons a solution.
Are they to throw "Qoran" away? Have you got a better book they can follow?Are you the authority they should seek for guidance?
Where did you get your "better ways" from? Are they the blinds and you are the seer? Bring your "light" for them?
It is easy to claim a "wrong" ,but show them where and how?
What do you follow? Your own opinion? Who s opinion ,if not yours?
Please ,please bring your "book/authority/...wisdom...etc" to enlighten these poor folks that are astray!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Interestingly true, as per definition, there isn't much of a difference between Quranist and Hadithist..
Both parties worships a book (or a series of books).
And both parties share the same 'mindset'..
It's understandable given the majority of the Quranist has Hadithist cultural background.Nay, we use the book to worship Allah. They use their books to worship the Prophet. According to their belief, you can't go to heaven until you copy him. And according to the owner of answering christianity, sunni sect is the only saved sect. All others are false.
I don't think we have the same mindset. They are holding onto a bunch of books even after knowing that all the hadiths might not be true in them. We aren't declaring death fatwa for those who hold onto sects. Yes, if we are seen in Afghanistan we are to be killed. The guy who made the post I showed above tells the difference between us and them quite well. Feel free to reread it and see the big picture.
Partnering Allah with a human or another being?
I assume that include a book?Hope you read what hicham9 said about it.
It's the definition of a sect / religion / cult..
And starting a new sect / religion / cult will not solve the problem caused by sectarianism, religionism or occultism.."We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein
True, thats why we prefer to be known as Muslims and that's why I said in my first post that those who don't like the term Quranist may get offended by it. We don't want another sect. But umm, bad news is that hadith lovers have already declared that we are a sect ???
I don't think anyone here is starting a new religion though. Instead we are trying to go back in time. Prophet didn't have Bukhari's hadith books to follow.
But religionism is here to stay. Without it, its pretty difficult to make ethical laws. I don't say it; my professors do.
I see naught but an appeal to ambiguityequivocation!
~ Reword your point for me, plz.
Brother, if Jafar is saying that there are good Muslims among many sectarians then I have to agree with him. We all know not all of them are out to be savage. The bounded rationality is what sets the limit in their thinking. They are good Muslims, but they don't have the keywords like "anti hadith verses in Quran" to know if the mainstream Islam is truly what Allah wanted us to follow. Scholars did an excellent job of keeping Quran away from them.
peace
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By the way, I know the discussion look very generalized because of the term sectarians. As I said earlier, there are good people among them. But my words are actually directed towards those who reject the truth even after coming to know about it. To make things worse, when they can't defend their position they either spread rumors about us or send us to jail.
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True, thats why we prefer to be known as Muslims and that's why I said in my first post that those who don't like the term Quranist may get offended by it. We don't want another sect. But umm, bad news is that hadith lovers have already declared that we are a sect ???
There is another term which hadith lovers coined for us; "Hadith rejectors". Personally, i think it is a term derived to stigmatize and to excommunicate Qur'an only Muslims without learning their own side of the story. Once you are branded an Hadith rejector by traditionalists, you will be disregarded and avoided like a plague most witnesses. Have this ever occurred to u?
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There is another term which hadith lovers coined for us; "Hadith rejectors". Personally, i think it is a term derived to stigmatize and to excommunicate Qur'an only Muslims without learning their own side of the story.
rotflOh yes, we are hadith rejectors also. But thats where their logic fail. According to their "official story", Bukhari rejected hadiths too. So in a way he is also a rejector.
Once you are branded an Hadith rejector by traditionalists, you will be disregarded and avoided like a plague most witnesses. Have this ever occurred to u?
Yep, saw that D. We argued with our relatives too about following Quran v hadith. In the end, they decided to not talk to us about this topic anymore. But I am not sure why its getting difficult for me get along with sectarians outside. I guess there is a big difference now in the thinking process? For instance, last quarter, I was assigned a group in which one of the members was Sunni. She asked me if I were Muslim and I said yes. I didn't feel the need to tell her about my belief. In our first paper, we did excellent. So the girl went on saying "I am proud of what we did". I avoid the word "pride" and its feeling because in Quran we are told clearly that this thing can get us in hell. She made a big deal out of my "no comment" neutrality. But then things got sour and I had to tell her "if you want to be proud good for you, I tend to avoid it". I didn't want to bring up Quran into it. After that things got fully cold between us. According to my sis, my comment got the girl embarrassed.
peace
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Interestingly true, as per definition, there isn't much of a difference between Quranist and Hadithist..
Both parties worships a book (or a series of books).
And both parties share the same 'mindset'..
It's understandable given the majority of the Quranist has Hadithist cultural background.To much of the credit of brother Jafar, he has a quite valid point here. Many of the folks who claim to follow Qur?an only ideology has only made a nominal transition from blind faith in traditions to blind faith in a book (or a specific interpretation of the book). Rejecting the nonsensical traditions has not empowered them to shed the baggage of sectarian mentality ? they continue to indulge in Jew bashing, Christian bashing, Hindu bashing, Shia/Sunni bashing, Ahmadiya bashing, Chinese bashing, atheist bashing? and so on; conveniently ignoring the implication that the ratio of enlightened ?muslims? within each of these groups is potentially higher or at least equal to the ratio of enlightened ?muslims? within those who call themselves ?Muslims?. Instead of rejecting the fanaticism about rigid form of rituals in blind traditionalism and embracing substance over form in worship of Allah, they are all too eager to reinvent new fanaticism about form / format / frequency of rituals through arbitary data mining on Qur'an. Some of them would conveniently declare astrology, ?divining arrows? and even harmless cultural practices as ?shirk? but when it comes to blind numerology they put all their intelligence in back-pocket and fall postrate! Instead of learning not to differentiate between messengers of different religions / nations, they misuse the concept to slander those who sincerely try to follow a specific messenger or ritually express respect for a messenger. They shed the path of peace, compassion and justice based on evidence; and embrace enmity, hatred and baseless conspiracy theories. They wish instead of being slave to the God of mankind (ilahin nas) they can be slave to the God of a book and thus become God?s favored people. Alas, there is no God of a book. Our God is One God ? the Master of the universe ? the Almighty, the Merciful.
The key to salvation is not in being a Quranist ? the key to salvation is in being a muslim ? having faith in our inviolable relationship with the Master of the Universe and thereby living a righteous life based on the sense of right and wrong that He has endowed us. As long as one upholds His God gifted sense of right and wrong and strives to live a righteous life faithfully ? it does not matter whether one is following the Qur?an, Hadith, Bible, or Geeta ? he has nothing to fear, nor will he grieve. Our Master is not unjust by an atom?s weight.
Qur?an is only meant to be taken as a guide, a book of signs which will help us see the truth. Like a compass Qur?an can help us find the right direction BUT ONLY IF we keep our eyes open. If one chooses to close one?s eyes, Qur?an can mistakenly seem like a license from God to feel superior over others. No matter how bright the daylight is, a blind will never see. Unfortunately many of those who claim to follow Qur?an only - are all too eager to walk that blind path.
On the other hand the point which brother Jafar seems to be missing is that accepting Qur?an as a divine guide is not synonymous to blindly following Qur?an (or a whimsical interpretation of Qur?an). I know the sun is divinely destined to rise from the East every morning and so I can use the sun to know my direction ? that does not mean I am ?blindly following the sun?.
So, we cannot generalize any conclusion about the "Quranists" just like we cannot generalize any conclusion about people of any other faith. We should judge people with how they act - not with what labels they carry.May Allah help us all to be muslims and may Allah help us read the Qur?an correctly to figure out the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
To much of the credit of brother Jafar, he has a quite valid point here. Many of the folks who claim to follow Qur?an only ideology has only made a nominal transition from blind faith in traditions to blind faith in a book (or a specific interpretation of the book). Rejecting the nonsensical traditions has not empowered them to shed the baggage of sectarian mentality ? they continue to indulge in Jew bashing, Christian bashing, Hindu bashing, Shia/Sunni bashing, Ahmadiya bashing, Chinese bashing, atheist bashing? and so on; conveniently ignoring the implication that the ratio of enlightened ?muslims? within each of these groups is potentially higher or at least equal to the ratio of enlightened ?muslims? within those who call themselves ?Muslims?. Instead of rejecting the fanaticism about rigid form of rituals in blind traditionalism and embracing substance over form in worship of Allah, they are all too eager to reinvent new fanaticism about form / format / frequency of rituals through arbitary data mining on Qur'an. Some of them would conveniently declare astrology, ?divining arrows? and even harmless cultural practices as ?shirk? but when it comes to blind numerology they put all their intelligence in back-pocket and fall postrate! Instead of learning not to differentiate between messengers of different religions / nations, they misuse the concept to slander those who sincerely try to follow a specific messenger or ritually express respect for a messenger. They shed the path of peace, compassion and justice based on evidence; and embrace enmity, hatred and baseless conspiracy theories. They wish instead of being slave to the God of mankind (ilahin nas) they can be slave to the God of a book and thus become God?s favored people. Alas, there is no God of a book. Our God is One God ? the Master of the universe ? the Almighty, the Merciful.
The key to salvation is not in being a Quranist ? the key to salvation is in being a muslim ? having faith in our inviolable relationship with the Master of the Universe and thereby living a righteous life based on the sense of right and wrong that He has endowed us. As long as one upholds His God gifted sense of right and wrong and strives to live a righteous life faithfully ? it does not matter whether one is following the Qur?an, Hadith, Bible, or Geeta ? he has nothing to fear, nor will he grieve. Our Master is not unjust by an atom?s weight.
Qur?an is only meant to be taken as a guide, a book of signs which will help us see the truth. Like a compass Qur?an can help us find the right direction BUT ONLY IF we keep our eyes open. If one chooses to close one?s eyes, Qur?an can mistakenly seem like a license from God to feel superior over others. No matter how bright the daylight is, a blind will never see. Unfortunately many of those who claim to follow Qur?an only - are all too eager to walk that blind path.
Bro, are you sure you are not bashing those who don't follow your mindset? You just said that there are people who call astrology shirk. I agree with this. But again, the reason behind this is that they didn't try to understand it. I tried explaining to some many times that it is not exactly occult or based on "predictions". They still feared it. Yes, I feel bad about it, but they have the free will to think whatever they want as long it doesn't hurt another person. Unfortunately, above you show the same mindset of theirs when you call conspiracy theories baseless. I wouldn't tell you to stop it ever because you aren't preaching violence.I assume that you have not come face to face with some of the worst crimes and famous people for which its difficult for you to trust such theories. Its fully comprehensible. However, do note that Allah does not forbid freedom of expression and speech. He forbids aggression. So far none on this forum has ever threatened to cause bloodshed. Yes a lot of bashing occurs, but it isn't the Pamela Geller kind. In the end, we are humans with feelings and intellect.
peace
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Bro, are you sure you are not bashing those who don't follow your mindset? You just said that there are people who call astrology shirk. I agree with this. But again, the reason behind this is that they didn't try to understand it. I tried explaining to some many times that it is not exactly occult or based on "predictions". They still feared it. Yes, I feel bad about it, but they have the free will to think whatever they want as long it doesn't hurt another person. Unfortunately, above you show the same mindset of theirs when you call conspiracy theories baseless. I wouldn't tell you to stop it ever because you aren't preaching violence.I assume that you have not come face to face with some of the worst crimes and famous people for which its difficult for you to trust such theories. Its fully comprehensible. However, do note that Allah does not forbid freedom of expression and speech. He forbids aggression. So far none on this forum has ever threatened to cause bloodshed. Yes a lot of bashing occurs, but it isn't the Pamela Geller kind. In the end, we are humans with feelings and intellect.
peace
Salam Reel
Once again I am not sure you are understanding what I am saying here. Spreading "conspiracy theories" may not be an act of physical violance, but quite frequently it can be considered a form of information violance. Teachings in Qur'an strongly prohibit spreading unproven and unprovable allegations and baseless assumptions. I have discussed them in several other threads, no point to renew that debate here.
I believe I made the point clear that unlike brother Jafar, I am not criticising Quranists in general. I am criticising secterian mind set, blind ritualism, pseudo science and spreading misinformation and hatred about alien races and religions. I just observed that many who claim themselves to be followers of Qur'an are no less indulgent in all these compared to their counterparts in traditional school.
Anyways, if you claim to follow Qur'an only and love to induldge in astrology, numerology and find glory in Jew bashing and conspiracy theories - I refuse to get into a debate with you. Suffices to say that my reading of Qur'an leads me to a path which is clearly distinct.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
rotflOh yes, we are hadith rejectors also. But thats where their logic fail. According to their "official story", Bukhari rejected hadiths too. So in a way he is also a rejector.
Well, you 've not seen much of them, they ''ll tell you that Buhari didn't reject all Hadith. Plus they believe that until recent times, no one ever rejected Hadith. This is historical fallacy, but how many people care to verify an history that favors them?
One time, i was having i was discussing Jihad onlinie with a traditionalist who maintain that Jihad can be offensive as well as defensive. He didn't know my views on Hadith yet, hence he opened up to me. Suddenly a co-traditionalist jumped in like a troll shouting, ''don't mind him, he is a Hadith rejector, he reject Hadith!" And that was it, the former whom i was discussing with instantly fired me, exclaiming; "What! He reject the sunnah of rasuululah? " Others came in branding me satan, a non-Muslim disguising as a Muslim and you name it.
You see, there are 3 class of Muslims undermined and stigmatized in the traditional Muslim community
- A Qur'an Alone Muslim who rejects Hadith
- A Muslim woman who doesn't cover her hair.
- A Muslim who cannot recite Qur'an in Arabic.
Yep, saw that D. We argued with our relatives too about following Quran v hadith. In the end, they decided to not talk to us about this topic anymore. But I am not sure why its getting difficult for me get along with sectarians outside. I guess there is a big difference now in the thinking process?
I had this experience with many traditionalists, even within my family. For the fact that your nuclear family share your position on this, i see you lucky. Usually, it starts with them condemning or preaching to me, then i take my time to engage them and boom! They walk out on me in fury or resolve not to discuss any matter pertaining to religion with me anymore. I get along with intellectual, open-minded and tolerant Muslims but only few can boast of any of this from my experience.
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Once again I am not sure you are understanding what I am saying here. Spreading "conspiracy theories" may not be an act of physical violance, but quite frequently it can be considered a form of information violance. Teachings in Qur'an strongly prohibit spreading unproven and unprovable allegations and baseless assumptions. I have discussed them in several other threads, no point to renew that debate here.
If Mr Bukhari can fool 1.6 billion Muslims then anything is possible.
Here are some things you need to understand- Not all are unproven. Check http//www.infowars.com/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true-what-every-person-should-know/
- Many of them are not exactly theories, but news from insiders.
- Many have already lost their lives in the line of duty to bring the truth out in the open for humanity. Check https//publicconspiracy.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/mysterious-witness-deaths-related-to-911/
- Science tells us to look for patterns and most of the theories form from that. Ex Drill before false flags, stereotypes like a teen shooter is always an antisocial loon, navy officers who question the government always shoot their families and commit suicide and bombers are always Muslim. This is what conspiracy theorists focus on mainly.
- After 9/11, conspiracy theories stopped two Zionist driven terrorist attack from happening by sharing of information. Ex Olympic bombing and 9/11 kind of attack again in NY with the twin of the Malaysian plane that went missing last year. The pilots all around the world began investigating the case. Eventually they found out that a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv.
- Many things are not allowed to be spoken about in the media and yes, what media shows is not always the truth.
- If conspiracy theories meant nothing neither Israel nor my American government would have hired shills to work against conspiracy theorists. Check https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpVUYGcgtjw
- If conspiracy theories were baseless there wouldn't have been a masters class dedicated completely to them. Yes, most of the ugly truth I learned from my class. Ex 1. Government can use terrorism to take away people's rights. The only thing they need to say and prove is that there will be an attack for which the people must hand over their rights for extra security. 2. The world around people isn't real, their minds are shaped by controlled media. 3. Elite theory. You can see it in action at any of the sites like ancestors.
- Quran tells us to reason and not to be sheeple.
If you ever get time try reading <a href="http//www.online-literature.com/machiavelli/prince/1/">Prince by Niccolo Machiavellil</a>
It was assigned to us for reading.
The reason why I say this is because this nasty book got a warm welcome as "public administration" text at White House during Regan era.Summary of the book
- As a political theorist, Machiavelli emphasized the occasional need for the methodical exercise of brute force or deceit including extermination of entire noble families to head off any chance of a challenge to the prince's authority.
2.Violence may be necessary for the successful stabilization of power and introduction of new legal institutions. - Force may be used to eliminate political rivals, to coerce resistant populations, and to purge the community of other men strong enough of character to rule, who will inevitably attempt to replace the ruler.http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli
Anyways, if you claim to follow Qur'an only and love to induldge in astrology, numerology and find glory in Jew bashing and conspiracy theories - I refuse to get into a debate with you. Suffices to say that my reading of Qur'an leads me to a path which is clearly distinct.
I thought most of the discussions of such topics contain the reasons for "bashing" and "indulgence". At least here, I havent found anyone saying "I hate jews because I feel like it". Thank you for taking your time to refuse to debate about why the kind of bashing you are talking about is wrong. This is what Allah told us to do if we can't show proper reasons for it.
Well, you 've not seen much of them, they ''ll tell you that Buhari didn't reject all Hadith. Plus they believe that until recent times, no one ever rejected Hadith. This is historical fallacy, but how many people care to verify an history that favors them?
lol, you are right. I did hear that comment of "no one rejected hadith before" several times from scholars and their followers.
Do they even try to read the history? Even the traditionalists' version about hadith books shows that Bukhari was no less than a Mossad agent.
One time, i was having i was discussing Jihad onlinie with a traditionalist who maintain that Jihad can be offensive as well as defensive. He didn't know my views on Hadith yet, hence he opened up to me. Suddenly a co-traditionalist jumped in like a troll shouting, ''don't mind him, he is a Hadith rejector, he reject Hadith!" And that was it, the former whom i was discussing with instantly fired me, exclaiming; "What! He reject the sunnah of rasuululah? " Others came in branding me satan, a non-Muslim disguising as a Muslim and you name it.
You see, there are 3 class of Muslims undermined and stigmatized in the traditional Muslim community
- A Qur'an Alone Muslim who rejects Hadith
- A Muslim woman who doesn't cover her hair.
- A Muslim who cannot recite Qur'an in Arabic.
http//www.sherv.net/cm/emo/happy/rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif
It looks like the only thing they missed to bring was an exorcist. Was it that sunni forum? I read that it has been banning "Quranist" members.
I had this experience with many traditionalists, even within my family. For the fact that your nuclear family share your position on this, i see you lucky. Usually, it starts with them condemning or preaching to me, then i take my time to engage them and boom! They walk out on me in fury or resolve not to discuss any matter pertaining to religion with me anymore. I get along with intellectual, open-minded and tolerant Muslims but only few can boast of any of this from my experience.
Thanks, the last debate we had was with my uncle. He lost of course, but in the end came up with a desperate conclusion that all those who follow Quran are wahabbis.
But good news is that the belief in Quran alone is spreading. He told us how he had similar debate with another Quran follower in Virginia. He lost in that tooUnfortunate truth
1746 We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Qur'an alone, they run away in aversion.Don't they ask you still, "HOW DO YOU PRAY"?
Did you ever try showing them the anti hadith verses from Quran? -
Salam Reel.
I am not against search of objective truth. But objective truth should be searched with due procedure under a judicial setting or under a peer-reviewed academic setting or at least under a peer-reviewed journalistic setting. Flooding online forums and drawing room discussions with baseless claims rejected by mainstream media, legal system and academia does not constitute as "search of objective truth".
"Governments use terrorism as an excuse to curb people's right to privacy" is no conspiracy theory - it is an open fact - even Governments would acknowledge there is a tradeoff and a careful balancing is involved. BUT, ?Zonists hijacked Malaysian planes to repeat 9/11 like attack? or ?Zonists orchestrated the Charlie Hebdo attack? easily go down the drain as nonsense and hateful conspiracy theories.
If you still do not understand what is the difference between objective search of truth and non-sense ? I challenge you to provide source and adequate evidence against the following claim of yours
Eventually they found out that a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv.
Who found the plane? How was the ?same registration number? discovered? How does this observation link Zionists with hijack of Malaysian planes and planned terrorist attack? Can you bring 3 witnesses who will stand by this claim in a court of law?
If you cannot (and never will you do) then think again if such a claim is good enough justification for you to place such serious blames of plane hijack, homicide and attempted terrorist attack on another community? How would you react if someone blamed some ?Muslims? (say the pilots themselves) for planning terrorist attack based on such flimsy stories?
Then will you not fear Allah, who is our Master and their Master - who is not unjust by an atom's weight?
4148 Allah does not love the publicity of the wickedness of the statements except who has been wronged ? and Allah happens to be Listener, Knowledgeable.
(My personal translation; cross checking is recommended.)
As regards to the ?journalism? books you refer, if this is what your books are teaching you? you are welcome to put those books in your "shelf" if that pleases you; as far as I am concerned, Qur?an suffices me as a guide to refrain from spreading fabricated lies against others.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman