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  4. How would you translate 19:29/30/31

How would you translate 19:29/30/31

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  • H Offline
    H Offline
    hafeez_kazi
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    Peace

    ENJOINED (VERB) to order (someone) to do (something); urge strongly; command
    The code enjoined members TO trade fairly
    The doctor enjoined the patient TO walk daily
    If your doctor enjoins you TO stop smoking, he is suggesting strongly that you quit

    If it was a command to Jesus then he should have been commanded TO estasblish the salat and GIVE zakah

    Jesus cannot be commanded WITH salat and ZAKAH

    Don't say that he was commanded TO establish the prayer and give zakah, because this is not mentioned in the verse.

    And ESTABLISH prayer and GIVE zakah, and whatever good you put forward for yourselves - you will find it with Allah. Indeed, Allah of what you do, is Seeing. (Al-Baqara 110)

    And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as the display of the former times of ignorance. And ESTABLISH the prayer and GIVEzakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity , O people of the household, and to purify you with purification. (Al-Ahzaab 33)

    If AUSANI is command/enjoin then what was the command to Jesus WITH salat and ZAKAH.

    Thanks

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    • R Offline
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      runninglikezebras
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      It seems you ignored my examples showing it's linguistically perfectly sound.

      The code enjoined members TO trade fairly

      => The code enjoined members WITH fair trade

      The doctor enjoined the patient TO walk daily

      => The doctor enjoined the patient WITH daily walks

      If your doctor enjoins you TO stop smoking, he is suggesting strongly that you quit

      => The doctor enjoins you WITH a smoking ban.

      What concerns ESTABLISH zakah and prayer. This is actively realizing them yourself. Again, God does not instruct Jesus to ESTABLISH prayer and zakah himself. God instructs him WITH the prayer.

      In your example, the Messenger is neither asked to ESTABLISH the prayer. The followers of the messenger are instructed to ESTABLISH. The messenger is enjoined WITH the prayer and zakat.

      When Quran uses ESTABLISH in combination with prayer and zakat it refers to a duty you have to realize yourself. When Quran does not use ESTABLISH it speaks about the blueprint for the prayer and zakat.

      When you are enjoined with something, it means the subject is WITH you, in your possession, under your supervision, in your control. This is illustrated by the fact that none of the prophets were told to pray or give charity given certain rules. They are not asked to establish. That message is for those following them. It seems that the messengers/prophets like Jesus knew how to pray and give charity from the heart. As such they served as an example. The prayer and zakat were in a way part of their identity, natural to them or God-given.

      To make things easy enjoined with means almost the same as "joined with". It has a different meaning than "enjoined to". "Enjoined with" does not necessarily mean a command but expresses what one is "joined" with.

      Jesus is enjoined with the prayer. The followers when they are enjoined to the prayer and obey the messenger/message they also become joined with the prayer. When you accepted prayer/charity, you are joined with it. Connected with it. In a larger perspective joined with God. It connects one with God.

      Peace

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      • H Offline
        H Offline
        hafeez_kazi
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        This is illustrated by the fact that none of the prophets were told to pray or give charity given certain rules. They are not asked to establish. That message is for those following them.

        Verily thy Lord knows that thou stay up near two- thirds of the night, Or half thereof, or a third thereof, and also a party of those who are with thee. And Allah measures the night and the day. He knows that ye can compute it not, He hath relented toward you. Wherefore proclaim now of the Qur'an, so much as is easy. He knows that there will be among you some diseased, and others shall be travelling in the land seeking grace of Allah, and others shall be fighting in the way of Allah. Wherefore (O Prophet ) proclaim thereof so much as is easy; and establish the prayer and give Zakat and lend Unto Allah a goodly loan. Whatsoever good ye shall send on for your souls, ye shall find it with Allah, better and greater in reward. And ask forgiveness of Allah; verily Allah is Forgiving, Merciful 7320

        (O Prophet) establish the prayer at the sun set until the darkness of the night and the Qur'an of dawn. Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed. 17 78

        And establish (O Prophet) the prayer at two ends/sides of the day BUT in the nearness of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember. 11 114

        Prophet Muhammad was explicitly commanded to establish the prayer and give zakah

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        • R Offline
          R Offline
          runninglikezebras
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          Lol hafeez. The parts between brackets are additions not part of the quranic text. Please, bring some real evidence.

          Peace

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          • R Offline
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            runninglikezebras
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            The prophet is hardly mentioned in the quranic text (you are misled by the injections in sectarian translations). Proving my point. The messenger already prayed the right way, gave charity the right way. Guided by God.

            The entire message in Quran is a message for the followers of the message and the messenger. When the instructions are explicitly for the prophet, the prophet is explicitly mentioned. But there aren't many of those.

            Peace

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            • H Offline
              H Offline
              hafeez_kazi
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              (111141)
              wa-aqimi
              And establish CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
              V ? 2nd person masculine singular (form IV) imperative verb

              (111142)
              l-alata
              the prayer N ? accusative feminine noun

              (17781)
              aqimi
              Establish V ? 2nd person masculine singular (form IV) imperative verb

              (17782)
              l-alata
              the prayer, N ? accusative feminine noun

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              • R Offline
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                runninglikezebras
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                Sure. But where does it mention "The prophet"? It doesn't say "O Prophet, establish". It says "Establish". So these are instructions for those following the message and following the messenger.

                Peace

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                • H Offline
                  H Offline
                  hafeez_kazi
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  Chapter (2) srat l-baqarah (The Cow)

                  (2431)
                  wa-aqm
                  And establish

                  CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
                  V ? 2nd person masculine plural (form IV) imperative verb
                  PRON ? subject pronoun

                  AQIMI is SINGULAR therefore addressed to the prophet

                  AQIMU is PLURAL therefore addressed to the followers of the prophet.

                  And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed . Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance. (20 14)

                  REVEALED TO PROPHET MOSES. IS THERE ANY DOUBT. IS THIS REVEALED FOR HIS FOLLOWERS.

                  O my son, establish prayer, enjoin what is right, forbid what is wrong, and be patient over what befalls you. Indeed, that is of the matters determination. (31 17)

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                  • R Offline
                    R Offline
                    runninglikezebras
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Chapter (2) srat l-baqarah (The Cow)

                    (2431)
                    wa-aqm
                    And establish

                    CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
                    V ? 2nd person masculine plural (form IV) imperative verb
                    PRON ? subject pronoun

                    AQIMI is SINGULAR therefore addressed to the prophet

                    AQIMU is PLURAL therefore addressed to the followers of the prophet.

                    And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed . Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance. (20 14)

                    REVEALED TO PROPHET MOSES. IS THERE ANY DOUBT. IS THIS REVEALED FOR HIS FOLLOWERS.

                    O my son, establish prayer, enjoin what is right, forbid what is wrong, and be patient over what befalls you. Indeed, that is of the matters determination. (31 17)

                    2014 is an example of how God instructs Moses when God chose moses as a prophet. Moses is an exception because he is the only prophet in Quran to which God spoke directly.

                    Jesus was not chosen as prophet somewhere during his life. He was born as a prophet and thus ENJOINED WITH.

                    The other verse is not addressed at Muhammad. It's conjecture to understand singular means addressed at the prophet. If it was addressed at the prophet it would explicitly mention it like in 2014. There is no verse I know of like 2014 that addresses Muhammad in such a way. Muhammad never spoke directly with God. To Muhammad God sent Djibril. One of the few exceptions in Quran are the verses where the prophet gets reprimanded by God.

                    "O my son" can be anyone. We are all created by God. Or are you like the christians claiming Jesus is Gods son?

                    Peace

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                    • R Offline
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                      runninglikezebras
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      Just use your reason hafeez. Why would the messenger recite a message that is addressed to himself? Wouldn't that be totally crazy?

                      The entire Quran is a message for the follower(s) of the message. When it is not, the names are explicitly mentioned.

                      Peace

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                      • H Offline
                        H Offline
                        hafeez_kazi
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        Establish (SINGULAR) prayer at the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night and the Qur'an of dawn. Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed. AND from the night, pray with it as additional FOR THEE (SINGULAR) it is expected that THY LORD (SINGULAR) will RAISE THEE (SINGULAR) to a praised station 1778/79

                        Both these verses are addressed to a SINGLE person and that very person would be raised to a praised station.

                        WHO IS THAT PERSON?

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                        • R Offline
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                          runninglikezebras
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          The reader/listener/receiver of the message.

                          Peace

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                          • H Offline
                            H Offline
                            hafeez_kazi
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            The reader/listener.

                            GOOD REPLY

                            Everyone is a reader/listener, so everyone will be raised to a praised station.

                            Thanks

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                            • R Offline
                              R Offline
                              runninglikezebras
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              It is conditional (establish the salat). And you missed a part in your translation "maybe". It does not say "it is expected". It says "maybe/perhaps".

                              Establish the salat and it may be that the Lord lifts you to a praised station. Even if you establish the salat, it is no guarantee you will gain more praiseworthiness. But it helps.

                              Peace

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                              • H Offline
                                H Offline
                                hafeez_kazi
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                You are the first person on the planet who says that these verses (1778/79) are addressed to reader/listener.

                                And their purpose was to tempt thee (READER/LISTENER) away from that which We had revealed unto thee (READER/LISTENER), to substitute in our name something quite different; (in that case), behold! they would certainly have made thee (READER/LISTENER) (their) friend! 1773

                                And if We had not strengthened you (READER/LISTENER), you (READER/LISTENER) would have almost inclined to them a little 1774

                                Then had we made thee (READER/LISTENER) taste a double (punishment) of living and a double (punishment) of dying, then hadst thou (READER/LISTENER) found no helper against Us 1775

                                And they indeed wished to scare thee (READER/LISTENER) from the land that they might drive thee (READER/LISTENER) forth from thence, and then they would have stayed (there) but a little after thee (READER/LISTENER) 1776

                                (Such was Our) method in the case of those whom We sent before thee (READER/LISTENER) (to mankind), and thou (READER/LISTENER) wilt not find for Our method aught of power to change 1777

                                (READER/LISTENER) Establish prayer at the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night and the Qur'an of dawn. Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed. 1778

                                And from the night (READER/LISTENER), pray with it as additional for you (READER/LISTENER); it is expected that your (READER/LISTENER) Lord will raise you (READER/LISTENER) to a praised station. 1779

                                And say (READER/LISTENER), "My Lord, cause me (READER/LISTENER) to enter a sound entrance and to exit a sound exit and grant me (READER/LISTENER) from Yourself a supporting
                                authority 1780

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                                • M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  mmkhan
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  The reader/listener/receiver of the message.

                                  Peace

                                  Peace brother,

                                  I agree bravo
                                  Surely almost all singular forms in alQuraan are direct referring to the reader.
                                  If we don't take these aayaat directly addressing to us, then it is really difficult to understand the Book of Allah.
                                  And secondly, it is of no use studying the Book which is not addressing directly to us but to someone else.

                                  And Rasools and Nabis are not unique, they are simple humans like us. And to my understanding Rasool and Nabi in Arabic are the common words, there is nothing Islamic in it.

                                  May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                                  mmKhan

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                                  • R Offline
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                                    runninglikezebras
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    If you find disharmony by interpreting them as such please show me where you see it. Because I don't see anything problematic about it.

                                    Peace

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                                      runninglikezebras
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      Peace brother,

                                      I agree bravo
                                      Surely almost all singular forms in alQuraan are direct referring to the reader.
                                      If we don't take these aayaat directly addressing to us, then it is really difficult to understand the Book of Allah.

                                      Thank you for the kind words mmkhan. I would even take it one step further and say "If we don't take these aayaat directly addressing to us, then it is pointless to read them".

                                      Peace

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                                      • H Offline
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                                        hafeez_kazi
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        Surely almost all singular forms in alQuraan are direct referring to the reader.
                                        If we don't take these aayaat directly addressing to us, then it is really difficult to understand the Book of Allah.
                                        And secondly, it is of no use studying the Book which is not addressing directly to us but to someone else.

                                        Verily We have revealed unto thee (READER/LISTENER) clear tokens, and only miscreants will disbelieve in them. (Al-Baqara 99)

                                        And We have sent thee (READER/LISTENER) with the truth, a bringer of glad tidings and a warner. And thou (READER/LISTENER) wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire. (Al-Baqara 119)

                                        We have seen the turning of thy (READER/LISTENER) face to heaven And now verily We shall make thee (READER/LISTENER) turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee (READER/LISTENER). So turn thy (READER/LISTENER) face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray) toward it. Lo! Those who have received the Scripture know that (this revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do. (Al-Baqara 144)

                                        They ask thee (READER/LISTENER), of new moons, say

                                        They ask thee, (READER/LISTENER), what they shall spend. Say

                                        They question thee (READER/LISTENER) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say

                                        They question thee (READER/LISTENER) about strong drink and games of chance. Say

                                        And they ask thee (READER/LISTENER) what they ought to spend. Say

                                        And they question thee (READER/LISTENER) concerning orphans. Say

                                        They question thee (READER/LISTENER) concerning menstruation. Say

                                        Among the People of the Scripture there is he who, if thou (READER/LISTENER) trust him with a weight of treasure, will return it to thee (READER/LISTENER). And among them there is he who, if thou (READER/LISTENER) trust him with a piece of gold, will not return it to thee (READER/LISTENER) unless thou (READER/LISTENER) keep standing over him. That is because they say We have no duty to the Gentiles. They speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly. (Aali Imraan 75)

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                                          hafeez_kazi
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #40

                                          It is no concern at all of thee (READER/LISTENER) whether He relent toward them or punish them; for they are evil-doers

                                          And if they deny thee (READER/LISTENER), even so did they deny messengers who were before thee (READER/LISTENER), who came with miracles and with the Psalms and with the Scripture giving light.

                                          Hast thou (READER/LISTENER) not seen those who pretend that they believe in that which is revealed unto thee (LISTENER/READER) and that which was revealed before thee (LISTENER/READER), how they would go for judgment (in their disputes) to false deities when they have been ordered to abjure them? Satan would mislead them far astray.

                                          But for the grace of Allah upon thee (READER/LISTENER), and His mercy, a party of them had resolved to mislead thee (READER/LISTENER), but they will mislead only themselves and they will hurt thee (READER/LISTENER) not at all. Allah revealeth unto thee (READER/LISTENER) the Scripture and wisdom, and teacheth thee (READER/LISTENER) that which thou (READER/LISTENER) knewest not. The grace of Allah toward thee (READER/LISTENER) hath been infinite

                                          Lo! We inspire thee (READER/LISTENER) as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as We imparted unto David the Psalms;

                                          And if they deny thee, (READER/LISTENER), messengers (of Allah) were denied before thee (READER/LISTENER). Unto Allah all things are brought back.

                                          And thus We have inspired in thee (READER/LISTENER) a Lecture in Arabic, that thou (READER/LISTENER) mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt.

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