Is Surah al-M??idah contradicting itself?
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Bring proof. You know what a proof is? Bring proof. Your opinion is no proof. Your opinion is just proof of your opini?n nothing else. That you opine this or that is proof of nothing. If you do not bring proof you are slandering.
Salaam
Didn't you read the OP at all? One can hardly say I did not bring proof, given the length of the article and many source references.
I still have to see one person proving it is NOT contradicting, including you.
Peace
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I think I have demonstrated how and why it contradicts on multiple occasions.
You have called me an idiot and deluded so far, what's next huruf?
Peace
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ps Good for you if you can accept the concept of nazarenes who aren't arrogant, are affectionate to the believers and at the same time ridiculing and mocking, being hostile to the believers. I must say that's quite an achievement.
Peace runninglikezebras I think you have your sarcasm misdirected,
I never stated the above, why not try making a contribution to the
spiritual growth of forum members instead of making contradictions that
exist only in your mind.God bless
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I'm not here to help anyone grow spiritually. I'm not a messenger nor a messiah. I'm just an average joe. Thinking critically and wanting to debate these matters with others.
Seems to me you have only one agenda, being to silence me as much as you can. It will be in vain though, I will continue posting on this forum - I'm not breaking any rules.
Peace
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I'm not here to help anyone grow spiritually.
Maybe that is why you pick such a topic?
Seems to me you have only one agenda, being to silence me as much as you can.
It will be in vain though, I will continue posting on this forum - I'm not breaking any rules.Peace
Peace runninglikezebras, no I do not want to silence you, I find you
entertaining, wrong about the contradictions but entertaining
nonetheless.God bless
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Nobody will silence you, what do you say, not even under water will anybody silence you. You are very funny.
But you see, if you do not make sense, I will not say otherwise. Why should I?
Salaam
How about some counterevidence? So far both you and hawk99 have only been saying my thesis is wrong without bringing any substantial argument. Not one quranic verse, not one reference. No explanation of how my logic is supposed to be flawed. I'll guess the reader will just have to take their word for it. Just like many take the words of the imams for truths without any explanation, nor rational argumentation.
Peace
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But my dear it is you who is caliming something, you the one who has to prove it, you have to bring evidence but all you have brought is opinion, not proof. That you understand things twistedly is no reason for anybody else to do likewise. It is your problem. You do have a problem. Do not pretend that because you have a problem everybody should have the same problem. Obviously we do not have it. Seek some more problem havers and enjoy with them. What else. On the other hand you do not seem nto know how to read the Qur'an. You seem to think that the Qur'an should be careful to underline, repeat and point out every little single thing that ANYBODY in the world might put his or her finger on some more explanation. But, if anything, you should know by now that the Qur'an is very concise, very ellyptical and that it does not throw words around just to fill in space just to preclude that any vocational suspicioner might get a hold for a little suspicion. God does nto seem to care to allay undue suspition. It is not He who is going to loose anything, in case you had not thought.
Salaam
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I guess you are just here for the name-calling then, huruf?
Please take a hike and let people interested in it debate it using rational arguments. I'm personally done with your constant insults and personal attacks that are totally off-topic.
Peace
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Nope you are always invited and welcome to logical argumentation and critical, logical debunking of this thesis.
But please keep the attacks on my person to yourself. It's not that I'm offended by them but you are harming yourself by doing so.
Peace
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Well you are wrong to think this is only my opinion. The work (doctorate) these opinions are based on can be ordered online, unfortunately so far only in french
http//www.librairietequi.com/A-28885-le-messie-et-son-prophete-aux-origines-de-l-islam-t1-studia-arabica-i.aspx
http//www.librairietequi.com/A-28886-le-messie-et-son-prophete-aux-origines-de-l-islam-t2-studia-arabica-ii.aspxHow is your french huruf? For me it's my second native language.
Summary in English can be found here
http//www.lemessieetsonprophete.com/annexes/presentation-en.htm
Wiki about the author
https//fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard-Marie_Gallez
Peace
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Peace runninglikezebras.
Now follow this "logically"
1- you claim 557 is verses apart from 551.
I claim 551 and 557 is the same subject addressing the same believers, the same dialogue ,where 557 confirms which Jews and nasara .Only those that mock and ridicule the believers.
Is this not logical/read again 551 onwards and see for yourself.
2-You claim 557 is abrogating 551.
I say the same conversation/subject in few different numbered verses does not mean one verse is abrogating the other verse,it is a continuous theme that is clarifying the context. Qoran has many examples where the context is clarified in the verse/s after it,when it is the same subject.
3- you claim 582 is contradicting 551.
I say 582 is talking about a different nasara , read and see how the subject now changes to those nasara that are not arrogant and when they hear the revelation of GOD you see their eyes flooding with tears... As in
583
When they hear what was revealed to the messenger, you see their eyes flooding with tears as they recognize the truth therein, and they say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so count us among the witnesses.584
"Why should we not believe in God, and in the truth that has come to us, and hope that our Lord may admit us with the righteous people?"Simple and logical to me. No abrogation and no contradiction.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace runninglikezebras.
Now follow this "logically"
1- you claim 557 is verses apart from 551.
I claim 551 and 557 is the same subject addressing the same believers, the same dialogue ,where 557 confirms which Jews and nasara .Only those that mock and ridicule the believers.
Is this not logical/read again 551 onwards and see for yourself.
2-You claim 557 is abrogating 551.
I say the same conversation/subject in few different numbered verses does not mean one verse is abrogating the other verse,it is a continuous theme that is clarifying the context. Qoran has many examples where the context is clarified in the verse/s after it,when it is the same subject.
3- you claim 582 is contradicting 551.
I say 582 is talking about a different nasara , read and see how the subject now changes to those nasara that are not arrogant and when they hear the revelation of GOD you see their eyes flooding with tears... As in
583
When they hear what was revealed to the messenger, you see their eyes flooding with tears as they recognize the truth therein, and they say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so count us among the witnesses.584
"Why should we not believe in God, and in the truth that has come to us, and hope that our Lord may admit us with the righteous people?"Simple and logical to me. No abrogation and no contradiction.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace good logic if you have time check out these ayats of criterion
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because
of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous
toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those
who act justly.Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion
and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - that
you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is
those who are the wrongdoers.God bless
peace
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Well you are wrong to think this is only my opinion. The work (doctorate) these opinions are based on can be ordered online, unfortunately so far only in french
http//www.librairietequi.com/A-28885-le-messie-et-son-prophete-aux-origines-de-l-islam-t1-studia-arabica-i.aspx
http//www.librairietequi.com/A-28886-le-messie-et-son-prophete-aux-origines-de-l-islam-t2-studia-arabica-ii.aspxHow is your french huruf? For me it's my second native language.
Summary in English can be found here
http//www.lemessieetsonprophete.com/annexes/presentation-en.htm
Wiki about the author
https//fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard-Marie_Gallez
Peace
So what, doctors have had opinions for the same thing and the opposite all over history. So what, Does that make it a proof of anything. Only for wpople who do not do what the Qur'an says ponder, reflect, think, reason, etc.
Whatever, doctors or no doctors, when somebody wants to find something illogical in the Qur'an, they will. When they want to be misled, they will be misled. The Qur'an also says that. And the Qur'an also says to take the best in it. If one takes the worst and not the best... what is such a person?
Salam
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Peace Hawk.
I am aware of those verses as well.
Thanks for quoting them here .
I also agree with you, there will always be those who find contradictions and will assume Qoran is at fault rather than their own understanding of it.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace runninglikezebras.
Now follow this "logically"
1- you claim 557 is verses apart from 551.
I claim 551 and 557 is the same subject addressing the same believers, the same dialogue ,where 557 confirms which Jews and nasara .Only those that mock and ridicule the believers.
I do not dispute it belongs to the same sura and that it is a reiteration of 551. You seem to suffer from a form of blindness however 557 do NOT take them as allies. You distort 557 to it being an exemption of what kind of alliances are allowed. How can one twist a verse saying DO NOT TAKE THEM AS ALLIES to say IT'S OKAY TO TAKE THOSE AS ALLIES on the condition that etc.
Is this not logical/read again 551 onwards and see for yourself.
2-You claim 557 is abrogating 551.
I say the same conversation/subject in few different numbered verses does not mean one verse is abrogating the other verse,it is a continuous theme that is clarifying the context. Qoran has many examples where the context is clarified in the verse/s after it,when it is the same subject.
It seems you have a problem reading my text as well. I never claimed 557 is abrogating 551. All I ever claimed is your distorted interpretation of 557 (being an exemption for allowed alliances instead of a prohibition on that kind of alliances in the objective text) makes 557 abrogate 551. It's only your distortion of 557 creating the abrogation.
3- you claim 582 is contradicting 551.
I say 582 is talking about a different nasara , read and see how the subject now changes to those nasara that are not arrogant and when they hear the revelation of GOD you see their eyes flooding with tears... As in
583
When they hear what was revealed to the messenger, you see their eyes flooding with tears as they recognize the truth therein, and they say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so count us among the witnesses.584
"Why should we not believe in God, and in the truth that has come to us, and hope that our Lord may admit us with the righteous people?"Simple and logical to me. No abrogation and no contradiction.
Again you distort. Nasara = Nasara period. If Quran would be talking about different Nasara it would not refer to them with the same proper name. How many abrahams are there in your reading?
Peace