Who or What is Al-Muzzammil?
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Thank you Osman for bringing some sense into this conversation...
Peace brother ths,
I haven't been back to the forums for very long and can already see myself being drawn back into simillar arguments as 10 years ago!
I don't want to continue posting this thread any further as I can see it will only result in a portion of its contributors being personally insulted (this is unavoidable due to a number of reasons), I will finish with this
It is very clear to me there are people here talking about a subject of which they have no knowledge, this is upsetting to see as it is all 'empty talk' and only serves the ultimate destruction of this community. You know who you are and I urge you to cease your declarations and go back to pure study. Learn how to read, write and speak Arabic, not only fuS7a but also the modern dialects and I promise you will be gifted with a genuine and satisfying understanding of how it all fits in together, a small part of this universe will have it's veil lifted and the feeling is great, I know this from learning other languages, the feeling you get is truly a great one when you learn the many varieties of Greek, English and Russian and gain a greater understanding about how they all work.
I think the moderators may not want to stifle participation by correcting people, but I suspect most of the people running Free-Minds are informed and educated and in a position to be able to help steer the conversation in the right direction by stopping the falsehoods as they appear - so I urge the moderation team to step in at times like this so that we can engage in truly worthwhile and constructive discussions. If the falsehoods pass as truths, only confusion follows.
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It is amusing to think you who having apparently, from your posted comments, no knowledge of the subject discus, then claiming others have no knowledge based upon your opinion and refusal to educate yourself Osman, with the applause of ths, this is the religious mind in full swing, leave the thread with my blessing you contributed nothing of value, peace.
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Thank you for releasing me from this conversation yaa m3allim Abdun.
You are indeed correct, we 'religious' types are a dangerous breed.
I'll go back to my basement now to rock back and forth whilst slapping my face and screaming for the prophet's intercession.
hypno
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Thank you Osman for bringing some sense into this conversation...
Bkanwar and Abdun Nur
Please bring some examples of the changes between the original Quranic Arabic and our modern intepretation of this so that we can see exactly what you are talking about.
And no one constructed Arabic grammar books "out of fear". This is all conspiratorial nonsense. Were the first English grammar books and German grammar books written out of fear? Or were they just simply written so that people can understand grammar better?
Everything always has to be a conspiracy with you guys..
I do not know how many examples will it take, but since you asked for it one more time, for the sake of totally na?ve of subject and language. Following are two example posted on this very board. One for years and one recent. Bring your linguistic arguments, why these meanings are wrong?
Regards,
Recent one"731
A desire for you to pay attention, one who is fallen behind due to an exaggerated sense of self pride, egotism.
This combination of words in Arabic grammar terminology is called . Which simply is understood as a particle for raising attention.
Simply ?O you?.
However, paying close attention to the word makes it abundantly clear that it has three of the words of same class or meaning i.e., raising attention, , and .
There is no reason in the world to say ?O you? like traditional translation claims. Therefore, let us look up these as separate words.
is used to raise attention of everyone, irrespective of proximity to the caller ?all near and distant?.
Besides being used as it is also used in sense of meaning ?one who?.
is used to wake someone up from sleep.Keeping all the discussion above in mind the only fluent way to translate ?A desire for you all to pay attention?.
This is a combination of and which here is not used as a definite article (traditionalists who object to linguistic analyst of word Allah, where I contend that its is a contraction of ى have themselves translated here as (which I am glad they have as it strengthens support from current translation of Quran for can be contracted and used as ) it is followed by a verbal noun from 2nd form of root . The root meaning as ?He limped, by reason of pride or self-conceit, in his going.
So let us put together as literal translation,
?O you one who limped behind by reason of pride in moving.? Please compare, it with following.
?A desire for you all to pay attention, one who is fallen behind due to an exaggerated sense of self pride, egotism.?
Please decide for yourselves is later an interpretation or just a better translation. Therefore, for people not to keep complaining that English in not comprehensible. (All references will be made available upon request)."
Old one is here,
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599853.msg237622#msg237622