Why every ones afraid
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Brother, perhaps you could be more specific about what kind of unsolicited PMs which are not allowed here?
Because, I think that not all unsolicited private messages are bad. Such as, when I was still new in this forum, I received unsolicited PM from brother mmkhan (I suppose he usually sent such PM to the new members) and I think his message is like a warm welcome to this forum, and I think that's a hospitable act.
Peace.
Yeah I agree, such kinds of announcements will only serve to stifle conversation of all kinds on the forum.
Although Taro Hiroshi tends to write long posts not necessarily related to topic threads and likewise sends long pms, we aren't under any obligation to read what he says and several other members do this whereas nothing has been said about them.
es made it clear before the mod post that she went a little over the top with being offended by his messages and she very graciously apologised.
I think we need to make it clear that Taro Hiroshi isn't being reprimanded especially when he isn't behaving any different to many other forum members.
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Peace all,
The title of this thread relates to the development of a physical community. A subject closely related to this is the conditions of a country in which the proposed community could develop.
In terms of quality of life, I find that the UK excels in some areas and is surprisingly backwards in others.
Before a discussion on the quality of life can take place, we must firstly set the parameters by which we can measure the quality of life.
Such parameters can include?
- the average income for a particular field of work when compared with other countries,
- the effect of taxation on income,
- the disposable income that can contribute towards savings,
- the cost of domestic utilities and groceries,
- the cost and quality of healthcare,
- the cost and quality of higher education,
- the effectiveness and equality of the legal system,
the time made available for social and family activities, - the economic equality index of a country when compared with other countries, and
- the extent of political and cultural freedom.
These parameters assume that a country is not at war, and is free of any internal military conflict.
These are generalised parameters which, I am sure, could be developed into more numerous and more specific parameters.
In my experience living in the UK, I have found that the UK doesn't do so well in the parameters numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 and 8 above. However, the legal system, political and cultural freedom, higher education, and healthcare are, in my experience, of merit.
I would imagine that most countries in the world excel in some areas and not so in others. And I would imagine that there are only a handful of countries in the world that excel in all areas.
A recent survey conducted by HSBC bank on expats working abroad has rated Singapore the best country in the world in terms of quality of life. Second came New Zealand, third Sweden, fourth Bahrain, and fifth Germany. The UK was ranked 23rd in this survey. Take a look at the league table here https//www.expatexplorer.hsbc.com/survey.
As it stands, I'm more than happy living in the UK so long as I were to find employment that pays enough. That way, I can break through the prohibitive barrier of taxation and high living costs and at the same time, reduce my working hours in order to make more time for social and family activities.
In terms of forming a physical community of QAs, currently, I don't see the harm, but I don't see the need either. Maybe when the QA movement gathers momentum and our numbers increase, it may be necessary to form a physical community for organisational purposes, however, such communities tend to form naturally without any need for consciously active assembly.
Time will tell.
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Peace Osman and everyone,
Although Taro Hiroshi tends to write long posts not necessarily related to topic threads and likewise sends long pms, we aren't under any obligation to read what he says and several other members do this whereas nothing has been said about them.
I believe that most of my posts on FM are related to topic threads. And I think that the PMs I have sent to most of those I have sent PMs to has been short. As far as I remember, there are only a few members I have sent long PMs to in this forum.
When it comes to writing posts that are related to topic threads, I think I need to improve this ability (become better at it). So thank you for pointing this out to me Osman.
I think we need to make it clear that Taro Hiroshi isn't being reprimanded especially when he isn't behaving any different to many other forum members.
Good point. And from now on I have decided to not send anyone PMs similar to the ones I sent to es and some other members in this forum. This decision is set in stone. I guess we all make bad decisions (mistakes) sometimes. And it seems that sometimes we have to learn things the hard way.
Thank you for your patience.
May God bless all of you.
Peace and best wishes,
Taro Hiroshi
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I usually only converse with people who ask me questions or seem interested in having a dialog. I may offer one-liners or short writings to members when I see that it is good that a provocation is put forth. Such as 'es' may respond in an unfriendly, hostile and sarcastic manner, but it does not matter. People are responsible for themselves.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Henrick,
I usually only converse with people who ask me questions or seem interested in having a dialog. I may offer one-liners or short writings to members when I see that it is good that a provocation is put forth. Such as 'es' may respond in an unfriendly, hostile and sarcastic manner, but it does not matter. People are responsible for themselves.
Be safe
AmenuelIs there any particular reason why you have picked me out and associated such negative adjectives to me?
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I usually only converse with people who ask me questions or seem interested in having a dialog. I may offer one-liners or short writings to members when I see that it is good that a provocation is put forth. Such as 'es' may respond in an unfriendly, hostile and sarcastic manner, but it does not matter. People are responsible for themselves.
Be safe
AmenuelMan of Faith,
Two days ago I mentioned that you post all over Free-Minds and the vast majority of those posts are completely off-topic. This serves essentially to spam the forum with useless information (however I honestly do not believe that this is your intention).
Whenever someone questions your claims or counters your statements you aren't able to back up what you say in any meaningful way. To me you're coming across as less interested about is actually being discussed and more interested dissemating your own belief system without engaging in any form of constructive debate.
(Apologies Taro Hiroshi, you are indeed correct, you aren't necessarily posting off topic things, as you know I've really tried to read some of your posts but they are SO LONG sometimes I do just skip past what you say and read the next person -[ - don't reinvent yourself, you have a really nice manner about yourself, just try and reduce the posts to more pertinent points! ;D)
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Hello Osman,
Two days ago I mentioned that you post all over Free-Minds and the vast majority of those posts are completely off-topic. This serves essentially to spam the forum with useless information (however I honestly do not believe that this is your intention).
It happens that I make off-topic posts, yes, but in many cases they are actually related to what people discuss even if the people themselves are going off-topic. In a certain case you also accused me of off-topic when my input was actually related to the thread.
However, tell me how many people lately in this thread have followed the thread's topic, but it seems that you are quite interested in highlighting me in particular for some reason.
Whenever someone questions your claims or counters your statements you aren't able to back up what you say in any meaningful way. To me you're coming across as less interested about is actually being discussed and more interested dissemating your own belief system without engaging in any form of constructive debate.
Well, in fact I do usually break everything down into tiny bits and even morphemes. That you do not consider my input as "backed up" is not really my problem as I back my arguments up to the point possible and I do often refer to lexical definitions as well. In the end it is for you to accept or reject as it always is. When it comes to this laughable condition of Quran being a total hoax in its interpretation then obviously it is difficult to have stopping power, but I do what I can.
I do actually not involve myself in sectarian discussions except sometimes inserting a provocation that there is an alternative understanding. And yes, obviously I am more interested in God's faith system than Paganism. What you choose yourself stands between you and your Spirit.
And I do keep my heaviest posts to another forum since I know that my perception is not exactly in line with this forum's ideas and I do actually not seek conflict albeit I wish to help people out of their fog if I can.
Be safe
Amenuel -
It happens that I make off-topic posts, yes, but in many cases they are actually related to what people discuss even if the people themselves are going off-topic. In a certain case you also accused me of off-topic when my input was actually related to the thread.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I say most of what you post is irrelevant to the subject matter of the threads you post in.
However, tell me how many people lately in this thread have followed the thread's topic, but it seems that you are quite interested in highlighting me in particular for some reason.
Yes, you're correct each of us here is guilty of going off topic in this instance. The point I was making by singling out yourself is that you're singlehandedly flooding Free-Minds with off-topic posts - and forgive me for being so blunt - but quite frankly, useless gibberish.
Well, in fact I do usually break everything down into tiny bits and even morphemes. That you do not consider my input as "backed up" is not really my problem as I back my arguments up to the point possible and I do often refer to lexical definitions as well. In the end it is for you to accept or reject as it always is. When it comes to this laughable condition of Quran being a total hoax in its interpretation then obviously it is difficult to have stopping power, but I do what I can.
And this is what it all boils down to, I get on with you fine until you start behaving deceptively, which is something I will not tolerate.
You don't know the first thing about Linguistics and you clearly don't know Arabic, I know this from the sheer corpus of factual errors you write on both subjects.
You read snippets of information from the internet and then repost them as if you're fluent in Fus7a and you parade around very arrogantly indeed making false claims about your the levels of your knowledge. If you're going to put yourself on such a high pedestal, someone will come to knock you down.
And I do keep my heaviest posts to another forum since I know that my perception is not exactly in line with this forum's ideas and I do actually not seek conflict albeit I wish to help people out of their fog if I can.
Yes, this 'other forum' is one you've made yourself with very few posts or members.
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Gentlemen, these pitiful ad hominem exchanges shall cease immediately.
They are not only off-topic, but are useless to those who are using this forum to earnestly pursue the truth.
Please observe the forum rules.
How ironic, your use of 'pitiful' can itself be considered ad hominem! D
I disagree that they stand in the way of pursuing truth, the issue I have is that certain behaviour from members at Free-Minds actively stifles that very same thing.
In all fairness to Henrick, it was only myself making ad hominem points.
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Peace Uq and everyone,
In terms of forming a physical community of QAs, currently, I don't see the harm, but I don't see the need either. Maybe when the QA movement gathers momentum and our numbers increase, it may be necessary to form a physical community for organisational purposes, however, such communities tend to form naturally without any need for consciously active assembly.
Time will tell.
Very interesting thoughts Uq. I think you raise some very good points in your post. And I like your prudent and pragmatic/realistic approach to start a physical community of QAs (i.e. Quranic community). I have written a post (in another thread in FM) where I shared some of my thoughts about starting a Quranic community. And it seems that our views are similar. If you haven't read my post, I recommend it. You might find it interesting. I would like to share it (the post) here.
Peace Man of Faith,
As far as I know, people who follow monotheism (Quranic islam) don't need an anarchic community in order to serve the God. Also, I don't think that monotheists need an anarchic community to accomplish their purpose in life. Therefore, I don't think an anarchic community is necessary. I think if someone wants to join/establish such a community, then he/she should do a "cost-benefit analysis." And if he/she comes to the conclusion that he/she will lose more than he/she gains, then he/she should abandon the idea of joining/establishing such a community. But these are my views. And everyone might not agree. So everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
As mentioned earlier, I don't think that monotheists need an anarchic community to accomplish their purpose in life. Hence there is no need for an anarchic community, in my opinion. There are some clues to what the purpose/meaning of life might be in verse 117 and 187 in the Quran, by the way.
Quran 117 He is the One who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, and His Throne was upon the water; so as to test who from among you works the best. And when you say "You will be resurrected after the death," those who have rejected say "This is but clear magic!"
Quran 187 We have made what is on the earth an adornment for them, so that We will test them as to which of them is best in works.
In my first post in this thread, I said that it seems that anarchy is incompatible with the Quran. But I am open to reconsider my view. Because my view might be wrong. The Quran suggests that there is no compulsion in islam (see verse 2256). Hence if a group of people (e.g. monotheists) want to start an anarchic community, it seems that the Quran allows them to start such a community. But even if the Quran allows them to start such a community, this doesn't necessarily mean that the Quran encourages monotheists to establish such a community. From my understanding of the Quran, this highly inclusive, practical/functional and reality-based text, encourages monotheists to be a part of the world community. I believe that when people are a part of the world community, they can serve a huge amount of people. They can be a part of the solutions to the current challenges humanity faces in this day and age, and the challenges humanity will face in the future. Also, they can create social reforms and strive to make the world a better place for everyone. In my view, the Quran doesn't encourage monotheists to seclude themselves by creating an anarchic community. Even if an anarchic community is compatible with the teachings of the Quran, this doesn't necessarily mean that the Quran encourages monotheists to join/establish such a community. This is important to keep in mind, in my opinion.
I think joining/establishing a Quranic community, is closer to the spirit of the Quranic message. But even such a community seems to be impractical and exclusive. But I might be wrong. Although I doubt that I will ever join/establish a Quranic community, I don't believe that such a community is a bad idea. And I am open to join/establish a Quranic community with other monotheists in the future. However, if I am going to join/establish such a community with others, then I think the benefits of starting such a community must be more than the costs. Also, I think there is a possibility that a Quranic community will turn into a sectarian community. According to the teachings of the Quran, humanity is one nation (see verse 41, 1019, 3022 and 4913). And the Quran doesn't seem to support/allow sects (see verse 6159, 3022, 4213, 4214 and 984). In addition to that, there are a few verses in the Quran which seem to suggest that people should fight oppression (create reforms) until the systems in their societies become divine/godly (see verse 2193 and 839). So if it is possible to create a divine/godly system in the world community, then what is the point of creating a Quranic community? I think it is worthwhile to ponder upon this question.
In my view, the Quran indirectly encourages monotheists to be a part of the world community and live among people of all faiths/ideologies/lifestyles. The Quran seems to suggest that monotheists who acknowledge and promote reforms will be rewarded with security and be enabled to establish their system (deen) in their lifetime.
Quran 2455 God promises those among you who acknowledge and promote reforms, that He will make them successors on earth, as He made successors of those before them, He will enable for them their system which He has approved for them, and He will substitute security for them in place of fear, that they serve Me and do not associate anything with Me. As for those who reject after that, they are the transgressors.
In verse 2455 above, the Quran suggests that those (monotheists) who acknowledge and promote reforms will be rewarded with security and be enabled to establish their system (deen) in their lifetime. Hence I think this verse makes the whole idea of starting an anarchic community obsolete. Because those who acknowledge and promote reforms, will be rewarded with security and be enabled to establish their system in their lifetime. Therefore there is no need for an anarchic community, in my opinion. But each to their own, I guess.
I thought I would mention that I have edited the post above to make it clearer. There were a few errors in the post that I have fixed and some sentences that I have reformulated.
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Taro Hiroshi,
Please don't stop sending people messages on my account. I, myself, have taken it upon myself many times to send PMs to members on here because I feel it is a community even if you haven't yet conversed with someone. Having said that, in real life, I talk to random people all of the time. (I'm from Yorkshire and we're famous for it in England. Now, there's a fact!) However, as in normal conversation, if someone does not respond to me or seems disinterested or lacking interest, I don't attempt to continue the conversation. I'm excessively selfish of my time and plan everything meticulously due to being extremely busy (particularly recently), therefore I simply don't have the time to read/ watch extra bits of literature although a part of me feels obliged to do so because you've made the effort to send it.
Anyhow, I apologise if I upset you. That was not my aim. I could have been more diplomatic in my responses, but what a challenge it is to contend with, and attempt to subdue, one's ego. That's my own personal journey and I apologise if I caused you upset along the way.
Apologies to everyone for taking this off topic yet again!
God bless.
Salaam.
Sajda.
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May God's peace be upon you
I like the idea of meeting other free minders in person and have no fear of anybody here on this forum.
People on this forum can choose whether to interact with others and they have the freedom to listen or walk away.I would like to establish friendships with other Muslims who are non sectarian and would attend a gathering of non sectarian Muslims. There are currently similar gatherings for Progressive Muslims and Submitters who follow Rashid Khalifa and possibly local networks of free minder Muslims in different cities. However, they have very specific agendas whereas I was thinking of getting together for more general social and practical support. For example where those who come from the same geographical areas or areas of interest can meet in person and unite to do righteous projects or Quran readings. There could be a network of gatherings in different countries or could be one conference. Dubai has been suggested, however it may be politically difficult to organise a nonsectarian Muslim conference in UAE unless it was under the radar. Even though it may appear to be a liberal place religion wise it is conservative. For reasons if cost and time available it may be more useful to organise locally and have an ongoing blog on freeminds about events that are occurring in different places and then a summary or report back after the event. Those who want to connect in person can attend and those who don't can choose to read or not read the information posted in the blog. What do other free minders think?
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Sounds like a plan, but from taking an earlier straw poll I doubt most people here have the financial means to gather on anything more than on a national basis.
That being said your plan would have a better chance of working if the conferences were broken down by nation/region e.g.
Benelux Quran Alone Conference
Great Britain & Northern Ireland Quran Alone Conference
New England Quran Alone Conference
West Coast Quran Alone Conference
Iberian Quran Alone Conference
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Brother, perhaps you could be more specific about what kind of unsolicited PMs which are not allowed here?
Because, I think that not all unsolicited private messages are bad.
I agree. Please note my use of the plural "messages". If it is multiple, and unwanted, then there is a potential problem that may warrant disciplinary action.
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I have met a user on the forum locally in Stockholm. The meeting was delightful.
I do not mention who due to privacy reasons unless the person mentions h-self.
I have no qualms about meeting people "in real life". A problem is that people may have qualms about meeting me due to prejudices laugh
Be safe
Amenuel -
Following on from Lena's suggestion perhaps it would be a good step forward to either have a poll or a thread for people who are willing to meet up to specifc their geographic location.
From then we would be able to be in a better position to decide where events can be organised.
Most of the people who have commented in the 13 pages of this thread must be interested in meeting there's no reason why meetings can't be held 2-4 weeks from now.
Henrick can organise the Scandinavian meeting, I can organise the UK meeting (unless anyone else wants to!) etc. etc. etc.
If national meetings aren't possible then there can be an Lower Scandinavia/Oslo area meeting and a Northern UK/Manchester area meeting and so on and so forth.
Where's the problem? group
