Why Should We Believe the Quran is Divine?

Man_of_Faith

Like the interpretation were you are told to beat your wife or have a sex slave. Today's translations of the Quran is heavily influenced by hadith books. Hadith followers have translated the Quran with the intention of trying to fit the Quran into the hadith book collection. The Arabic language is also heavily influenced by them.

Bold and underlined That is still an understatement. ;D

But I agree yes

Be safe
Amenuel

zayd

Just finished counting "yawm" myself to satisfy my curiosity. If there are any mistakes, please point them out.

http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=ywm

The triliteral root y ww mm ( &#1605 occurs 405 times in the Quran as the nominal yawm (&#1605.

365 singular

3 dual
27 plural
10 not counted (e.g. yawmikum)
= 405 total

Also not counted yawma-idhin
http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=lem%3Ayawoma}i*

SINGULAR x 365

14
28
248
262
285
2113
2123
2126
2174
2177
2212
2228
2232
2249
2254
2259
2259
2264
2281
39
325
330
355
377
3106
3114
3155
3161
3166
3180
3185
3194
438
439
459
487
4109
4136
4141
4159
4162
53
53
55
514
536
564
569
5109
5119
612
615
622
673
673
693
6128
6141
6158
714
732
751
753
759
7163
7163
7167
7172
841
841
848
93
918
919
925
929
935
936
944
945
977
999
9108
1015
1028
1045
1060
1092
1093
113
118
1126
1143
1160
1177
1184
1198
1199
11103
11103
11105
1254
1292
1418
1431
1441
1442
1444
1448
1535
1536
1538
1625
1627
1627
1663
1680
1680
1684
1689
1692
16111
16124
1713
1714
1752
1758
1762
1771
1797
1819
1819
1847
1852
18105
1915
1915
1915
1926
1933
1933
1933
1937
1938
1938
1939
1985
1995
2059
2064
20100
20101
20102
20104
20124
20126
2147
21104
222
229
2217
2247
2255
2269
2316
2365
23100
23111
23113
23113
242
2424
2437
2464
2514
2517
2522
2525
2526
2527
2569
2638
2682
2687
2688
26135
26155
26156
26189
26189
2783
2787
2841
2842
2861
2862
2865
2871
2872
2874
2913
2925
2936
2955
3012
3014
3043
3055
3056
3056
3133
325
3225
3229
3321
3344
3366
3430
3440
3442
3514
3654
3655
3659
3664
3665
3720
3721
3726
37144
3816
3826
3853
3878
3879
3881
3913
3915
3924
3931
3947
3960
3967
4015
4016
4016
4017
4017
4018
4027
4029
4030
4032
4033
4046
4049
4051
4052
4119
4140
4147
427
4245
4247
4339
4365
4368
4410
4416
4440
4441
4517
4526
4527
4528
4534
4535
465
4620
4620
4621
4634
4635
5020
5022
5030
5034
5041
5042
5042
5044
5112
5113
529
5213
5246
546
548
5419
5448
5529
5650
5656
5712
5712
5713
5715
586
587
5818
5822
603
606
629
649
649
649
652
667
668
6824
6839
6842
6935
704
708
7026
7043
7044
7314
7317
749
7446
751
756
767
7610
7611
7627
7712
7713
7714
7735
7738
7817
7818
7838
7839
7840
796
7935
7946
8034
8215
8217
8218
8219
835
836
8311
8334
852
869
9014
1014

DUAL x 3

2203, yawmayn
419, yawmayn
4112, yawmayn

PLURAL x 27

280, ayyaamaa
2184, ayyaamaa
2184, ayyaam
2185, ayyaam
2196, ayyaam
2203, ayyaam
324, ayyaamaa
341, ayyaam
3140, al-ayyaam
589, ayyaam
754, ayyaam
103, ayyaam
10102, ayyaam
117, ayyaam
1165, ayyaam
145, bi-ayyaam
2228, ayyaam
2559, ayyaam
324, ayyaam
3418, ayyaamaa
4110, ayyaam
4116, ayyaam
4514, ayyaam
5038, ayyaam
574, ayyaam
697, ayyaam
6924, al-ayyaam

NOT COUNTED x 10

6130, yawmikum
751, yawmihim
21103, yawmukum
3214, yawmikum
3971, yawmikum
4383, yawmahum
4534, yawmikum
5160, yawmihim
5245, yawmahum
7042, yawmahum

GODsubmitter

Excellent thread!
thank you all

Osman

Peace Osman

Who is the "we"? confused

God bless you

The 'we' is, 'we' as a community of people who take the Qur'an as a perfect and divinely created text, and use this text as the foundation for our world view and philosophy/religion, whatever you call it.

hawk99

The 'we' is, 'we' as a community of people who take the Qur'an as a perfect and
divinely created text, and use this text as the foundation for our world view and
philosophy/religion, whatever you call it.

Thank you Osman, you do see "we" can mean the human race which
includes believers, kafirs, hypocrites, tyrants, agnostics, atheists etc.,
so if the question is why should believers believe that the Quran is
divine I would say that the juncture where our will and the will of the
creator intersect is the reason we believe the Quran is divinely inspired.

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him
believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." Indeed, We have prepared
for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call
for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds
faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place.

So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to Islam;
and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted
as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement
upon those who do not believe.

May God bless you

Man_of_Faith

who take the Qur'an as a perfect and divinely created text

I do that too, but the interpretations I know are not divinely blessed... hypno

Be safe
Amenuel

Osman

I do that too, but the interpretations I know are not divinely blessed... hypno

What do you mean Amenuel?o

Man_of_Faith

What do you mean Amenuel?

I mean that the Arabic that Quran stands for is very very very very very very very very very very very very different from the one that people know here and now nope

Be safe
Amenuel

fye

I mean that the Arabic that Quran stands for is very very very very very very very very very very very very different from the one that people know here and now nope

Be safe
Amenuel

arabic is a language... then what is the quran? your very confusing how is the interpetations that much different you have to translate the parables the read does the translating and understanding for himself?
also is everyone speaking the same arabic why does one word have so many interpretation when entering into english this is also about other post.

Man_of_Faith

arabic is a language... then what is the quran? your very confusing how is the interpetations that much different you have to translate the parables the read does the translating and understanding for himself?
also is everyone speaking the same arabic why does one word have so many interpretation when entering into english this is also about other post.

Quran is a very misinterpreted scripture given birth to a fabricated language by its interpreters. I do not know what else to write.

Be safe Amenuel

fye

so...

I do realize that in asia and the middle-east there are a lot of Arabic words that have carried different meanings like a funny one is "falah" (prosperity) which from going to a masjid or two I've heard means falah (male reproductive organ) lol.

but makes it so misinterpreted?

are you saying as in people don't grasp the old "Arabian knights" Arabic to English with the similtudes and such, or is it not one of those foundation languages like latin and such?

I also remember you posted about the kaba and said people were worshipping it?
i'm a bit out of the loop but you have a opinion or experience with modern islam that you have not shared or I haven't heard.

can you explain your views on islam, mainly just the things you disapprove of because those are the most important ones, and what is your view of the modern muslim,
I personally think they are just people with a book and no messenger but can you explain where your statements and ideas come from they are interesting but then you just cut them down without explaining any of them...it's a forum board speak freely man, it's like leaving a huge blank in the point you were going to make

Osman

I mean that the Arabic that Quran stands for is very very very very very very very very very very very very different from the one that people know here and now nope

Please Man of Faith,

How do you mean? confused

Man_of_Faith

Please Man of Faith,

How do you mean? confused

I mean that somehow the Arabic of Quran is not even remotely resembling the Arabic spoken today, and the grammar is totally different. Why I cannot answer with absolute precision at this time, but what I do know is that the Holy Spirit made Quran written and it was unique in its script and language. There has been people who have attempted to interpret it who were not able to do it but intentionally or unintentionally brought forth a totally wrong interpretation which not even remotely represents what the Author intended to be conveyed by it. Such reality has become testament to me more and more for every passage of Quran I have been working on the past months since I initiated my total reinterpretation project of Quran. It has unraveled something different.

And I now understand why in the Old Testament of the Bible God says that "I am who am I" to Moses and why Jesus decides to utter "I am in the Father and the Father in me". My work on Quran has revealed that it has a similar expression which is the famous "la elah ila allah" which means "to be Who Is is to be Such As Who Is". And no, (la) does not mean "not", that (ma) stands for, in all situations.

Be safe
Amenuel

Osman

And I now understand why in the Old Testament of the Bible God says that "I am who am I" to Moses and why Jesus decides to utter "I am in the Father and the Father in me". My work on Quran has revealed that it has a similar expression which is the famous "la elah ila allah" which means "to be Who Is is to be Such As Who Is". And no, (la) does not mean "not", that (ma) stands for, in all situations.

Peace Man of Faith,

What you're saying is contradicted by the fact that words such as and are well known Semitic words which mean pretty much the same thing in every language, and the way they're used is equally well understood. Such words form the core of the language, I could elaborate with more complex nouns and verbs to prove the language hasn't changed drastically, for instance

No/Not - Arabic (Lam Alif) ~ Syriac 'L' (Lam Alap) ~ Hebrew (Lam Alf)
What - Arabic (Mim Alif) ~ Hebrew (Mim H&#601
What - Arabic - (Shin) ~ Syriac 'Sh-' (Shin)
From - Arabic (Mim Nun) ~ Syriac 'Min' (Mim Nun) ~ Hebrew (Mim)
In - Arabic (B&#601 ~ Syriac ~ Hebrew (Bt)

I've just given you a tiny sample of basic Semitic words and prepositions, and there's a whole world of additional evidence contradicting your claim that Arabic is 'very very very very very' different to what is known now.

A good question for yourself and many others on this forum before starting on the journey of interpreting the Qur'an is

Man_of_Faith

so...

I do realize that in asia and the middle-east there are a lot of Arabic words that have carried different meanings like a funny one is "falah" (prosperity) which from going to a masjid or two I've heard means falah (male reproductive organ) lol.

Fa-Lam-Ha = cut/slit/crack/split/fissure, furrowed/plough/cultivate, agriculture, till the ground, to prosper be successful, attain/acquire, become fortunate/happy, become independent, permanence/lastingness/duration.

Arabic is a very descriptive language and reproductive organ could very well be "What you reproduce/attain/cultivate (with)" , i.e. using the objectifier . It could probably also be used to say what you HAVE attained/cultivated as in talking about your achievement, your harvest.

but makes it so misinterpreted?

The fact that when I have independently analyzed it, it does not add up and when I just had an open mind and browsed ancient lexicons I realized something was fishy and I soon noticed that the understood grammar was beyond criticism, a joke. I have but few people with me, however I am very serious about this and the Arabic speaks for itself in my translations so there is little to argue about; I did not force the translations which are linguistically coherent yet reveal an entirely different discourse. In the end it is probably word against word and people have to decide what kind of translation makes sense and I am not going to give up without a fight and therefore my project contains everything a person evaluating needs, i.e. documentation, own lexicon et cetera; everything with a clear explanation to how I came up with many passages and words. I am sure the actual revealed discourse will make people convinced though; for the logical mind my translation makes much more sense and does not sound like what a sectarian cleric has come up with.

are you saying as in people don't grasp the old "Arabian knights" Arabic to English with the similtudes and such, or is it not one of those foundation languages like latin and such?

I do consider that Quranic Arabic is made or heavily influenced by God. Both Arabic and Aramaic use the same root system.

I also remember you posted about the kaba and said people were worshipping it?
i'm a bit out of the loop but you have a opinion or experience with modern islam that you have not shared or I haven't heard.

Having a holy place is simply against the old Mosaic Decree, but Muslims seem to have done away with it even if it was classified as eternal (for as long as this World is). You should not take an image of anything in Heaven (abstract) or Earth (physical) and worship it, and that includes a cubic building somewhere in the desert. It is hard to realize for most, but it is not much different from shaping a statue of stone and having it represent your god. That is against the Decree.

can you explain your views on islam, mainly just the things you disapprove of because those are the most important ones, and what is your view of the modern muslim,
I personally think they are just people with a book and no messenger but can you explain where your statements and ideas come from they are interesting but then you just cut them down without explaining any of them...it's a forum board speak freely man, it's like leaving a huge blank in the point you were going to make

I know I often keep myself short, but that is because I cannot spend whole days on forums writing when "it is for nothing" with people that are not worth "investing in" (nothing personal) because they are not receptive enough. I do however not exclude anyone interested but that is why I am here and throwing out bait like a fisherman perchance anyone would perceive I am onto something.

I have a parable "I am a goodly shepherd but my fellow shepherd colleagues keep our sheep in a bad meadow and they are too naive, misinformed and do not trust me to move elsewhere and despite my whistling the sheep will simply not run over to where I have found a greener meadow and my colleagues do not believe me. Sadly there is a dense forest covering the sight towards the other meadow so I start to saw every tree down so that the sheep will see it and come running. Eventually after some tedious lonely work I manage to cut a sufficient amount of trees down and remove them so gradually more and more sheep begin to rebel against my colleague shepherds and rush across to the goodly meadow. But the old bad meadow is so famous so the image as the best meadow is hard to erase and foreign shepherds still have problems believing my eventually convinced colleague shepherds and me".

I hope you can see the parable for what it is. It is customary to use these sheep parables so why not.

My statements come from spending my whole life into understanding the Realm of God and every little tiny piece of information and I just do not go wholesale on something but I critically examine everything I run across, and I did the same with Quran and I simply was suspicious about its interpretation for a very long time before I even got involved at the level I am now.

I disprove of

A separate objectified god that you can whatsoever not associate yourself with and that it is out of question
Senseless rituals and rites
A god that spits out his anger in a scripture because he does not get the attention he thinks he deserves (even if he does)
A god that encourages worldliness
A god that says "kill the disbelievers until they perform my ritual called salat"
A god that will come (as if it is physical) with angels in waves on the "final day".
A god on a throne (objectified deity)
A holy house somewhere on Earth (e.g. Mecca)
A god that speaks in its holy passages of its scriptures as if it is a worldly human writing (now that is false because it is the interpretation that just simply sucks)
A god that on the first encounter with someone (Moses) first of all tells him that "I am with you as long as you perform my contact prayer (and only exactly as I taught you)". (Fortunately the passage says that "I am with you as long as you follow my guidance, but that is another story).

If you seek more I can easily probably write an A4 with points too.

I just see it as a fabricated revamped Pagan religion where all the separate multiple worldly gods have become one. I have learned that God is "Such Who Is"; it is a symbiotic phenomenon where there is for real absolute Oneness to the point that God is the only unit in existence and the only way to be alive is to merge in it, i.e. "under His umbrella", become assimilated.

Be safe
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

Peace Man of Faith,

What you're saying is contradicted by the fact that words such as and are well known Semitic words which mean pretty much the same thing in every language, and the way they're used is equally well understood. Such words form the core of the language, I could elaborate with more complex nouns and verbs to prove the language hasn't changed drastically, for instance

No/Not - Arabic (Lam Alif) ~ Syriac 'L' (Lam Alap) ~ Hebrew (Lam Alf)
What - Arabic (Mim Alif) ~ Hebrew (Mim H&#601
What - Arabic - (Shin) ~ Syriac 'Sh-' (Shin)
From - Arabic (Mim Nun) ~ Syriac 'Min' (Mim Nun) ~ Hebrew (Mim)
In - Arabic (B&#601 ~ Syriac ~ Hebrew (Bt)

I've just given you a tiny sample of basic Semitic words and prepositions, and there's a whole world of additional evidence contradicting your claim that Arabic is 'very very very very very' different to what is known now.

A good question for yourself and many others on this forum before starting on the journey of interpreting the Qur'an is

It seems like the distortion is only worse than I thought in that case. Thanks for giving me claims that 'la' means 'no' in Syriac though. I will investigate. That can lead towards tipping down a whole mountain.

does sometimes mean 'no' in Arabic and sometimes 'what' depending on grammar. That is however not supported by my discoveries where always means no.

Be safe
Amenuel

unknownuser

A good question for yourself and many others on this forum before starting on the journey of interpreting the Qur'an is

!

Osman

It seems like the distortion is only worse than I thought in that case. Thanks for giving me claims that 'la' means 'no' in Syriac though. I will investigate. That can lead towards tipping down a whole mountain.

does sometimes mean 'no' in Arabic and sometimes 'what' depending on grammar. That is however not supported by my discoveries where always means no.

Be safe
Amenuel

The rule around Ma <like many aspects of the language> is dependent upon its context.

Osman

!

)

Man_of_Faith

Okay. I read you.

I am not impossible, but this is not supported by my very extensive research. It just seems so sad if the corruption is deeper than only limited to Arabic.

I just did some brief investigation

It is not wrong to say means not in Arabic even by conventional grammar.

Samples from Hebrew

yeish li chadashot bishvilkha - I got news for you

(seems very similar to the use of in Arabic, the real interpretation)

?iyn
not, no, without, there is no

What I do think is that the influence from (the fake) Arabic was immense among the Jewish people as well back then. 'lo/la' I doubt is a no word in the original tongue.

I am very persistent because there simply exists no sign in Quran that would mean 'no/not', even if it conflicts with Aramaic/Syriac/Hebrew. There has been conflicts before which only revealed further falsehood.

I am glad that you brought this up though, it gave me more to think about. It is a clear indicator to why the Old Testament looks like it does which uses a lot of Aramaic/Hebrew.

It is the same with that Qatal has for a long time been perceived as kill/slay while it does not mean that but it means master/subdue a person but also to successfully convince them.

Be safe
Amenuel