A Challenge to All Believers of Quran
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vb. qtl does mean to kill (put to death),
or eliminate (put an end to)?Guys wake up! Root Qaf-Ta-Lam, its primary meanings is "to get to know someone/something very or superlatively well"
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000238.pdf
Regards,
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Imrankhawaja, are you a half wit?
oh really ,,, and what about you,,, you are engineer I think or may be doctor,,, or a person who is going against his scripture,,, awww I think best word for you is disobedient servant of Allah ,,, who called people by their bad names..
"O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors." (4911)I think I need to remind you about this verse of quran ,,,
now come to the point on which grounds you called me half wit or stupid,,, I would like to know... then we will proceed talk.. jazak allah -
Project Root List
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/16_QAF.htmQaf-Ta-Lam
to kill, put to death, be accused, slay/murder/kill/slaughter, attempt to kill, render person like to one killed, to wage war/combat/battle, to master, contend/fight, deadly, knew a thing thoroughly/well, become acquainted with it.
Lughatul-Qur'an, by G.A. Parwez
http//islamicdawn.com/lughatul-quran-parwez-english-translation-project/
http//www.qes.no/Lughat/VIII.pdfQTL
Raghib says it also means to insult another or to make him bend.
Ibn Faris says it basically means to insult or kill someone.(qatl) means to insult, demean or to make someone incredulous so that no one gives it any thought or importance. In other words "make him ineffective".
(uqtulu fulaana) made him like he was among the dead, i.e. his presence and absence will become irrelevant.
(qatala ash-sharaab) to add water to a drink and make it less effective or potent {T}.
(qatala ash-shay-a khubra) he acquired full knowledge about that thing.
(innahu laqatlu ash-sharr) he knows evil very well.
(al-muqattalu) a man who is very experienced and knows the truth or facts about things {T}.
As such, everywhere, where the word qatl appears in the Quran, it would not mean to kill somebody. Its meanings will be determined with reference to the context in which it is used. Sometimes it will be "to kill", sometimes it will mean "to demean" and "to insult", other times it will mean "to make ineffective" or "to destroy". Sometimes it will mean to deprive of education, and other times to acquire full knowledge etc.
Dictionary of The Holy Quran, by M.G. Farid
http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=qtl
https//www.alislam.org/quran/dictionary/dictionary_quran.pdfQTL
He killed his carnal desires.
He killed or lessened or weakened the strength of wine by mixing water with it; he mixed water with wine.
He lessened the intensity of hunger and cold.
He humbled him completely; he rendered him like unto one killed physically, morally or spiritually.
He acquired complete and full knowledge of the thing so as to 'kill' all possibility of doubt.
Cursing a person.
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Thanks for the reference, zayd. It all confirms the subduing meaning of qatel. It can mean to physically defeat someone, but it does not imply whether the person dies or not.
Be safe
Emanuel -
Guys wake up! Root Qaf-Ta-Lam, its primary meanings is "to get to know someone/something very or superlatively well"
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000238.pdf
This is a post-quranic meaning, with no basis in the writ.
Project Root List
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/16_QAF.htmQaf-Ta-Lam
to kill, put to death, be accused, slay/murder/kill/slaughter, attempt to kill, render person like to one killed, to wage war/combat/battle, to master, contend/fight, deadly, knew a thing thoroughly/well, become acquainted with it.
Lughatul-Qur'an, by G.A. Parwez
http//islamicdawn.com/lughatul-quran-parwez-english-translation-project/
http//www.qes.no/Lughat/VIII.pdfQTL
Raghib says it also means to insult another or to make him bend.
Ibn Faris says it basically means to insult or kill someone.(qatl) means to insult, demean or to make someone incredulous so that no one gives it any thought or importance. In other words "make him ineffective".
(uqtulu fulaana) made him like he was among the dead, i.e. his presence and absence will become irrelevant.
(qatala ash-sharaab) to add water to a drink and make it less effective or potent {T}.
(qatala ash-shay-a khubra) he acquired full knowledge about that thing.
(innahu laqatlu ash-sharr) he knows evil very well.
(al-muqattalu) a man who is very experienced and knows the truth or facts about things {T}.
As such, everywhere, where the word qatl appears in the Quran, it would not mean to kill somebody. Its meanings will be determined with reference to the context in which it is used. Sometimes it will be "to kill", sometimes it will mean "to demean" and "to insult", other times it will mean "to make ineffective" or "to destroy". Sometimes it will mean to deprive of education, and other times to acquire full knowledge etc.
Dictionary of The Holy Quran, by M.G. Farid
http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=qtl
https//www.alislam.org/quran/dictionary/dictionary_quran.pdfQTL
He killed his carnal desires.
He killed or lessened or weakened the strength of wine by mixing water with it; he mixed water with wine.
He lessened the intensity of hunger and cold.
He humbled him completely; he rendered him like unto one killed physically, morally or spiritually.
He acquired complete and full knowledge of the thing so as to 'kill' all possibility of doubt.
Cursing a person.
Can you provide examples from the Quran ?
Salute
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Can you provide examples from the Quran ?
faqtuluu anfusakum
A. slay one another and commit suicide
B. subdue/master/conquer/control/humble your nafs
(Freeminds)
And Moses said to his people ?O my people, you have wronged your souls (Zalamtum anfusakum) by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and kill yourselves (faqtuluu anfusakum). That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.?
(Muhammad Asad)
and when Moses said unto his people "O my people! Verily, you have sinned against yourselves by worshipping the calf; turn, then. in repentance to your Maker and mortify yourselves39; this will be the best for you in your Maker's sight". And thereupon He accepted your repentance for, behold, He alone is the Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace.
Note 39
Lit., "kill yourselves" or, according to some commentators, "kill one another". This literal interpretation (probably based on the Biblical account in Exodus xxxii, 26-2 is not, however, convincing in view of the immediately preceding call to repentance and the subsequent statement that this repentance was accepted by God. I incline, therefore, to the interpretation given by `Abd al-Jabbar (quoted by Razi in his commentary on this verse) to the effect that the expression "kill yourselves" is used here in a metaphorical sense (majazan), i.e., "mortify yourselves".
(Freeminds)
And We appointed a meeting time for Moses of forty nights, but then you took the calf after him while you were wicked.
Then We forgave you (thumma
afawnaaankum) after that, perhaps you would be thankful.
(Freeminds)
The people of the Book ask you to bring down to them a book from the heaven. They had asked Moses for even more than that, for they said ?Show us God openly!? So the thunderbolt took them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf after the clarity had come to them, and We pardoned them (fa `afawnaa) for this; We gave Moses a clear authority.
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/2_AYN.htm
Ayn-Fa-Waw
to forgive/pardon, abound, pass over, forgo, grow, multiply, obliterate all traces, remit, give more than what is due, relinquish right or remit in whole or in part. afina (oblique pl. of afin) - forgiving. afuwwan - very forgiving, name of Allah. afwun - forgiveness, indulgence, surplus, superfluity. ya'fu - to pardon. ufiya - he is pardoned. (It does not necessarily imply the committing of a sin on the part of a person about whom it is used.)
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Guys wake up! Root Qaf-Ta-Lam, its primary meanings is "to get to know someone/something very or superlatively well"
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000238.pdf
Regards,
One needs to know the arrangement of Lane's lexicon to understand, what is the primary signification of a given root? He has described it in the preface. Furthermore, to be able to understand the real meanings of Quran and its words, one needs to able to understand/comprehend following.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599853.msg237622#msg237622
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Edward Lane's Lexicon, 19th century, is overwhelmingly based on the definitions from ancient lexicons. Many of them actually. It is both "Context" and "Etymology" in that book, because Edward Lane did not come up with the definitions himself, he simply gathered up definitions from several lexicons and interpreted them with a documentation using English.
I would prefer to use his work as a source than some deluded scholars who have not even searched definitions from all available lexical sources.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Edward Lane's Lexicon, 19th century, is overwhelmingly based on the definitions from ancient lexicons. Many of them actually. It is both "Context" and "Etymology" in that book, because Edward Lane did not come up with the definitions himself, he simply gathered up definitions from several lexicons and interpreted them with a documentation using English.
I would prefer to use his work as a source than some deluded scholars who have not even searched definitions from all available lexical sources.
Be safe
AmenuelHe " simply gathered " you say ?!
Sounds like bukhari v.2 to me ... /
The Quran was composed in a pre-quranic, Arabian tongue,
not in post-quranic "CA" ! <--Lane's lexicon, or ibnu manzur's work, etc. are post-quranic projects (that tend to parrot sunnis) and thus hold no authority whatsoever over the quranic language. Its the other way around.Salute
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Peace reel.
AnswerKill your Ego.
Of course if something is abstract, you cannot physically "kill it". However the word "KTL" still means kill.
What is the problem?
Oh you mean it also means "Humble yourselves..." But the word "Uktulu" still means "kill"GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Understanding that commandment is simple enough. The meaning of "...and kill yourselves..." is contingent on the context.
How can you turn to God in repentance if you put an end to your life?
It is rather in this context
For example "you can either sleep on this project, or kill yourself to its completion."
And of course, good logic is right too, it is in that sense, not a literal sense.
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Kill your Ego
I saw that in Rashad Khalifa's Quran translation.
Problem Repentance itself is killing of ego.Saying Qtl means only kill is same as thinking heaven cannot be anything but the world where the good would go after death.
When he shall die,
Take him and cut him out in little stars,
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world will be in love with night
And pay no worship to the garish sun
-Romeo and JulietUnfortunately, it looks like heaven in ancient time was also the sky.
He did say 'kill yourselves', no ?!
Would you venerate a calf* (as a deity) after witnessing G-D's Power in action (sea parting, &c.) ?
I don't think Allah can ask for such nasty sacrifice. It can only be done by satan. The hint of it was already given.
Zayed posted this
Note 39
Lit., "kill yourselves" or, according to some commentators, "kill one another". This literal interpretation (probably based on the Biblical account in Exodus xxxii, 26-2 is not, however, convincing in view of the immediately preceding call to repentance and the subsequent statement that this repentance was accepted by God. I incline, therefore, to the interpretation given by `Abd al-Jabbar (quoted by Razi in his commentary on this verse) to the effect that the expression "kill yourselves" is used here in a metaphorical sense (majazan), i.e., "mortify yourselves".Here is another one
Note 69
Moses's speech may be construed literally, as translated, in which case it reproduces Exod. xxxii 27-28 but in a much softened form, for the Old Testament says "Go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor... and there fell of the people that day 3,000 men." A more spiritualized version would be that the order for slaying was given by way of trial, but was withdrawn, for God turned to them in forgiveness. A still more spiritualized way of construing it would be to take "anfusakum" as meaning "souls" not "selves". Then the sense of Moses's speech (abbreviated) would be "By the worship of the calf you have wronged your own souls; repent mortify (=slay) your souls now it will be better in the sight of God." -
q-t-l has a wide field of which kill is merely an instance.
I ee this sentence of qtl anfosakum more like that sentence in the gospel where it is said, whever wants to save his soul will loose it. It is a matter of puttingthings ins perspective. What is self and what is nafs. Analyse what you loose when you worship a calf. Are we not told en the Qur'an I think that more tha one time tht what we do or what we don't is for ourselves, for our benefit or against it? God is not going to suffer we will suffer.
But it seems tht there is ome dogma or some kind of gain or commision points on getting q-t-l to mean invariably to kill, that helps a lot along describing islam and Qur'an as a horror. Who would rennounce such a pleasure?
It is time that the root q-t-l is redeemed and I congraatulate all those that have had a try to do it.
Salaam
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I wonder why people ignore lexical inputs of 'subdue' and 'master'. When you subdue a person they do not die, but you make them become powerless towards you. You can also make someone powerless towards you in a debate.
Be safe
Amenuel -
I wonder why people ignore lexical inputs of 'subdue' and 'master'. When you subdue a person they do not die, but you make them become powerless towards you. You can also make someone powerless towards you in a debate.
Be safe
AmenuelIf you have got asubscription to q-t-l = kill you want to have your killing otherwise you think he responsible person of the subscription will be cheating you. That is the mental set-up it seems. You buy q-t-l = kill and if you do not get it you ask for your money back. The idea that you might have not be sure about what you really bought is unsettling ist seems.
Salaam