SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS
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As Salaamu Alaykum
Its been a long time since I've been in this forum, people know me when I debated the 3 Salaat Theory
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
I came here to share a document that I wrote, that I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from or enjoy. The document is entitled SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS, that exposes the Shi'ite sectarian school of thought. You have the choice to download the document in English or Arabic. You can use this as a combat tool kit to refute, intellectually destroy the Shia school of thought. To download either click on the link or copy and paste the link in a browser.
SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS (English)
https//app.box.com/s/ycavzcgbbwvp4ke7xrqzrlxsb6e543yiSHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS (Arabic)
https//app.box.com/s/b42mddiog507syphrrm30jf3015fm5rxSalaam,
Al Khidr
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Shukran Osman for reading the document and your compliment.
I sat down with this one Shia that I know and gave him this document and now I don't hear from him. His aim was to try to convert me but after being exposed to this information, I think I scared him away.
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In my experience I've encountered two broad types of religious Shiah, there's the educated type and the un-educated type, a lot of this ridiculousness around asking the Amir ul-Mu'mineen before entering his shrine and self-flagellation is played down by the educated ones (whether honestly or dishonestly) which leads me to believe a lot of this stuff is consciously employed by Shi'a leaders as a means to control society and it is the uneducated masses who most readily take on the more unusual aspects of the doctrine.
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Excellent document. You should post this on shiachat. They'll probably ban you though.
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Invalid777 yes I plan on doing that. If you know of any Shia Forums, send me the links.
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Invalid777 yes I plan on doing that. If you know of any Shia Forums, send me the links.
Shiachat is a large shia forum http//www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?act=home
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Invalid777 I have already placed my post in that Shia Chat. However, I have to wait for them to approve it before the post actually shows so I'm sure they probably will now allow it.
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As Salaamu Alaykum
Its been a long time since I've been in this forum, people know me when I debated the 3 Salaat Theory
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
I came here to share a document that I wrote, that I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from or enjoy. The document is entitled SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS, that exposes the Shi'ite sectarian school of thought. You have the choice to download the document in English or Arabic. You can use this as a combat tool kit to refute, intellectually destroy the Shia school of thought. To download either click on the link or copy and paste the link in a browser.
SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS (English)
https//app.box.com/s/ycavzcgbbwvp4ke7xrqzrlxsb6e543yiSHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS (Arabic)
https//app.box.com/s/b42mddiog507syphrrm30jf3015fm5rxSalaam,
Al Khidr
Peace be with you brother,
I used to have a 'Shia' background myself, well, 'Alevi' to be exact (which shares the same meaning), a religious group from Turkey who follow the Islam interpretation of a sufi saint called Haji Bektash Veli, but they also have a lot in common with the Shia belief (about the status of imam Ali, the Ahl al-Bayt, the twelve imams, Ja'far al-Sadiq, commemorating Karbala during Muharram, Ashura, etc.) and I also used to be very active in Shia discussion groups and I'm a bit familiar with their books.
I have just read your pamphlet of peace, and I agree a 100% with it, but I'm afraid there is a small chance the average Shia muslim will instantly believe your pamphlet and abandon his false sectarian beliefs. You see, the average Shia beliefs that their way, their sources and hadith are the truth because it can be proven from Sunni sources/hadith. They think "There are two school of thoughts (Sunni and Shia). If a school of thought can be proven wrong from it's own sources (like the Sunni), you should avoid it. But if a school of thought (Shia) can be proven correct from the sources of the other school, then you should follow it." This is why they believe they are the truthful ones without questioning, because their false assumptions can be proven from Sunni hadith sources.
So what I would do, is perhaps add a section to your pamphlet which shows that the Qur'an is always negative about following other hadith, and second, you can also find a lot of hadith in their Shia sources which say that the Imams from Ahl al-Bayt also followed Qur'an alone! This could make it easier to convince them step by step. There are a lot of Shia hadith which say that the Qur'an should be the only source for guidance, but the majority of Shia are unaware of this simple fact. Although a true Qur'anic monotheist does not need other hadith to be convinced, I see no other option for the average Shia since they have more difficulty with abandoning their hadith than the average Sunni in my experience.
I can't remember the exact sources, but I have encountered Shia hadith in which Ali says "Do not be separated from the Qur'an. Choose it as an imam and an example for yourself." And in which imam Ali Ridha (their 8th imam) says "The Qur'an is the word of God. Do not seek guidance in anything but the Qur'an, otherwise you will go astray." And Ja'far al-Sadiq (their 6th imam) that says we should throw away everything that contradicts the Qur'an. They should realize the simple fact that their Ahl al-Bayt Imams were also 'Quran alone' monotheist muslims and have nothing to do with today's Shiism and Ayatollah's.
And last but not least Maybe you could also add a section to your pamphlet about the famous 'Tawassul' prayer of the Shia. In this prayer, they call upon Muhammad and the Ahl al-Bayt Imams for intercession. They distort the true meaning of verses 2154 and 3169 "And do not say of those who are killed in the cause of God that they are dead; no, they are alive but you do not perceive."
They use this verse to claim that Ali and the Ahl al-Bayt are not dead and that it's okay to call upon them because their status is higher with Allah. Although you already shared the importance of verse 393 in your pamphlet which should already ring a bell to the true believers, maybe you can also show them their claim about 'Tawassul' contradicts the Qur'an. You could write down that the dead do not hear us (3522) and that the Salat is for God alone (2014) and that we should not call on anyone else besides God (7194, 416, 15, 465, 2262, 7220, 1314, 721 and that all intercession belongs to God (3944).
If they still reject after this, then this simply means they are no different than the mushriks/polytheists from Mecca 14 centuries ago.
2170 "And if they are told "Follow what God has sent down," they say "No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!" What if their fathers did not comprehend anything and were not guided?"
Thank you for your pamphlet!
Peace.
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Walaykum As Salaam Alper88
You mentioned how the Shia has hadiyths which states to follow Qur'aan alone, I would like to get those hadiyths from you? I liked reading your comments and thanks for the information that you have offered including things to add to my pamphlet. I also liked the argument you made about Tawassul and how the Shia call upon Muhammad, Ahlul Bayt and how Allah says in the Qur'aan the dead cannot hear us.
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Walaykum As Salaam Alper88
You mentioned how the Shia has hadiyths which states to follow Qur'aan alone, I would like to get those hadiyths from you? I liked reading your comments and thanks for the information that you have offered including things to add to my pamphlet. I also liked the argument you made about Tawassul and how the Shia call upon Muhammad, Ahlul Bayt and how Allah says in the Qur'aan the dead cannot hear us.
You're welcome, thank you too brother.
Just a few weeks ago I had encountered another forum where they had proven 'Quran alone Islam' from a list of Shia hadith/traditions. Unfortunately I can't find it again! I'll let you know as soon as I do. I wish I had saved the link and hope it's not deleted.
Kitab al-Kafi is also a famous hadith book within Shiism, which comprises around 16,199 narrations.
Peace.
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Shiachat is a large shia forum http//www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?act=home
They actually approved my post in the Shia Chat Forum. So we have an ongoing debate over there. None of them are making any good points and they are shuffling around just like the Sunnis do.
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They actually approved my post in the Shia Chat Forum. So we have an ongoing debate over there. None of them are making any good points and they are shuffling around just like the Sunnis do.
They will probably ban you and delete the posts when they see that they get nowhere.
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They will probably ban you and delete the posts when they see that they get nowhere.
I got banned from Ummah forum, a sunni forum. The usual process is name calling, profanity, death threats and eventually a complete IP ban. You cannot argue with them. They have no sense. Sunnis are thicker than Shiites. They're brainwashed from childhood to believe that their "ummah" is the path to paradise and that they're 100% on the straight path. There is no room for critical thinking in Sunnism. You are a kafir and will burn in hell forever if you ask too many questions. It's fear based control.
I wouldn't say Shiites are any better though but I have yet to meet a Sunni to have a peaceful debate with in real life. My father knocked me out and hates me to death., sister won't even speak to me and mother thinks I'm a deviant. I've lost many friends too. It's much harder to convince a Sunni to Quran-alone monotheism than it is to a Shiite. My father is a stereotypical Sunni. Wears thobe, skull cap, long beard, prays 5 times a day etc. Their physical appearance compensates for their deviance and gives them the illusion of righteousness.
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They actually approved my post in the Shia Chat Forum. So we have an ongoing debate over there. None of them are making any good points and they are shuffling around just like the Sunnis do.
Yes. I read through it. bravo
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I got banned from Ummah forum, a sunni forum. The usual process is name calling, profanity, death threats and eventually a complete IP ban. You cannot argue with them. They have no sense. Sunnis are thicker than Shiites. They're brainwashed from childhood to believe that their "ummah" is the path to paradise and that they're 100% on the straight path. There is no room for critical thinking in Sunnism. You are a kafir and will burn in hell forever if you ask too many questions. It's fear based control.
That is why criticizers of Islam are right in a way to be wary of Islam. (Sectarian) Muslims are a growing global threat when such that you referred to begin to be radicalized and think that they have to mobilize and become activists. The thinking is there already in their mind with their treatment of you and it only takes that they realize it physically even if they have already killed you spiritually with their minds. To think a wish to kill someone with your mind is equal to actually killing a person in God's opinion when it comes to the instinctive activation in your mind and which is very detrimental for your Spiritual well-being.
Sectarianism is the worst kind of delusion that you can have. It is more about group identity than to actually reflect upon what it is that they believe, they put peer pressure upon themselves, spurring and rallying each other. It is this arousal that is dangerous.
It works the same also in non-religious contexts such as radical right- or left-wing political groups. Yet I think Islam is worse than those groups because the systematic spread of that kind of sectarian Islam and because the leader "god" is strong and powerful and people respect him so much that they die for him, even if it is a god out of their fantasies and does not represent the Rabb/Sustainer. Rather they rely on some madmen and their crazy interpretation of a scripture and compilation of written hearsay that is ascribed to a person portrayed like a loony (Muhammad).
After detachment from it I wonder how one single person can believe in that nonsense. But sheep follow their shepherds. Humans are incredibly gullible, and their radicalization becomes very hazardous for the communities, just behold Daesh (ISIS) which contains a bunch of brainwashed fools who are gullible enough to believe in their delusion that they fight for the right cause. In their deluded mind, they do think that they do the right thing, that they serve their god, because they follow the scriptures to the point and they have aroused themselves Bodily so much that this has made them blind to reason. The only way to change them is exposure to something else, very psychological penetration of the thick shell covering their mind.
One cannot fight fire with fire, so communities need to change the approach.
I wouldn't say Shiites are any better though but I have yet to meet a Sunni to have a peaceful debate with in real life.
In general, those who are Shiites are more relaxed and controlled. It can have to do with that Shiite hadith contains much propaganda about intelligence. I have studied Shia Islam to some extent. It is more foul to lose your control in behavior in Shia Islam overall. They are usually arrogant and proud, but at least way friendlier.
My father knocked me out and hates me to death., sister won't even speak to me and mother thinks I'm a deviant. I've lost many friends too. It's much harder to convince a Sunni to Quran-alone monotheism than it is to a Shiite. My father is a stereotypical Sunni. Wears thobe, skull cap, long beard, prays 5 times a day etc. Their physical appearance compensates for their deviance and gives them the illusion of righteousness.
Well in many cases Yesua would have called them hypocrites. But it is often unfair to call them hypocrites because they do not even have a solid foundation beneath them. I would simply call it plain delusion. That is what the word "kafar" means in Quran too, i.e. delusion. It means you are lost in your mind and just choose something irrational and illogical to believe in.
Be safe
Amenuel -
I got banned from Ummah forum, a sunni forum. The usual process is name calling, profanity, death threats and eventually a complete IP ban. You cannot argue with them. They have no sense. Sunnis are thicker than Shiites. They're brainwashed from childhood to believe that their "ummah" is the path to paradise and that they're 100% on the straight path. There is no room for critical thinking in Sunnism. You are a kafir and will burn in hell forever if you ask too many questions. It's fear based control.
I wouldn't say Shiites are any better though but I have yet to meet a Sunni to have a peaceful debate with in real life. My father knocked me out and hates me to death., sister won't even speak to me and mother thinks I'm a deviant. I've lost many friends too. It's much harder to convince a Sunni to Quran-alone monotheism than it is to a Shiite. My father is a stereotypical Sunni. Wears thobe, skull cap, long beard, prays 5 times a day etc. Their physical appearance compensates for their deviance and gives them the illusion of righteousness.
I agree with you about what you said the Sunni and Shia and the difference between the two. Shia are a little more open minded and some of their arguments are stronger than sunnis two.
I also got banned a long time ago in the Sunni Forum. I recently tried to post my Shia there and they did not allow it.
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Coming from a Sunni background and looking at both Sunni and Shiah theology, I agree with you Al Khidr19, Shi'i are a lot more open minded than Sunni.
Also the Sunni are convenced their hadith is so authentic when actually a lot of it amounts to no more than Ummayad propaganda and hence Ali bashing.
The Shi'i are right about one thing, the Sunni were the enemies of the decendants of the prophet, it's so clear from reading hadith, some of it is watered down but a lot of it is shifty and you can see is purposefully painting Ali out to be a fool.
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Coming from a Sunni background and looking at both Sunni and Shiah theology, I agree with you Al Khidr19, Shi'i are a lot more open minded than Sunni.
Also the Sunni are convenced their hadith is so authentic when actually a lot of it amounts to no more than Ummayad propaganda and hence Ali bashing.
The Shi'i are right about one thing, the Sunni were the enemies of the decendants of the prophet, it's so clear from reading hadith, some of it is watered down but a lot of it is shifty and you can see is purposefully painting Ali out to be a fool.
Salaam Osman
I agree with you, you are right on point.
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I got banned from Ummah forum, a sunni forum. The usual process is name calling, profanity, death threats and eventually a complete IP ban. You cannot argue with them. They have no sense. Sunnis are thicker than Shiites. They're brainwashed from childhood to believe that their "ummah" is the path to paradise and that they're 100% on the straight path. There is no room for critical thinking in Sunnism. You are a kafir and will burn in hell forever if you ask too many questions. It's fear based control.
Have you ever tried islam section in Reddit?