How Can We Wage War Against Allah?
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Peace Karmen.
Look at the context. GOD was talking to the believers during the prophets life about the -spoils of war-
841
You should know that if you gain any spoils in war, one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger, to be given to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the travelling alien. You will do this if you believe in God and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of decision, the day the two armies clashed. God is Omnipotent.The fifth was to be given to all those mentioned in the verse. GOD has no need for anything!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Karmen.
Look at the context. GOD was talking to the believers during the prophets life about the -spoils of war-
841
You should know that if you gain any spoils in war, one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger, to be given to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the travelling alien. You will do this if you believe in God and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of decision, the day the two armies clashed. God is Omnipotent.The fifth was to be given to all those mentioned in the verse. GOD has no need for anything!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.If it wasn't for God in the first place then he wouldn't need to say 1/5 is for him, or he didn't have to write the word god in it...
It clearly says that the war booties are to be given to God, the messenger, orphan,travelers, and relativesIf god was excluded from obtaining war booties the the verse should look like this
You should know that if you gain any spoils in war, one-fifth shall go to the messenger,to be given to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the travelling alien. You will do this if you believe in God and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of decision, the day the two armies clashed. God is Omnipotent.
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Peace Karmen.
And if the messenger was omitted from it, it will look like this
You should know that if you gain any spoils in war, one-fifth shall go to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the travelling alien. You will do this if you believe in God and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of decision, the day the two armies clashed. God is Omnipotent.
That would be your words or mine.
GOD s words are there to highlight the source of obedience. GOD and His messenger .GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I think it is better to give the spoil to the widow or family of the man you just slew. Why loot the country where you go? You would fight them because they attack in ignorance, but why loot them?
Obviously the dead men's property should be saved and returned when the war is over if it was any sensible interpretation. Not that I think the context even speaks of war.
Quran's interpretation is pathetic and worldly. You see it come from men. It is another sign Quran was used to heavily rally for war and the 1/5 for the clergy to gain profit.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Peace Man Of Faith.
Your spoils of war are "looted". Mine are "compensation" and taking back what has been looted.
Also the widow and children are included in that list.
Finally ,that is not an instruction for you and me now,anyway?
Any translation will render it irrelevant now.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I think it is better to give the spoil to the widow or family of the man you just slew. Why loot the country where you go? You would fight them because they attack in ignorance, but why loot them?
Obviously the dead men's property should be saved and returned when the war is over if it was any sensible interpretation. Not that I think the context even speaks of war.
Quran's interpretation is pathetic and worldly. You see it come from men. It is another sign Quran was used to heavily rally for war and the 1/5 for the clergy to gain profit.
Be safe
AmenuelIf it's translated to profit , then why did god said that he needed 1/5 of the profit we gain to be given to him?
He's the big guy upstair why should he need any cut -
I just say Pagan!
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Who's the pagan? me? the interpreter, the translator, or the quran?
Isn't it clear mof that it said that the profit is to be given to god? -
Who's the pagan? me? the interpreter, the translator, or the quran?
Isn't it clear mof that it said that the profit is to be given to god?The interpreters that generated the interpretation that people have today, they are the Pagans. Not for the term itself but what it descriptively conveys. The word Pagan implies that a person is quite worldly. Here is a lexical definition taken from Merriam-Webster
2 one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods an irreligious or hedonistic person
That is very categorical for a Pagan. Many people who claim to be Muslim are also actually Pagan. It is more about behavior and mental perception than anything else. Its etymological origin is distorted and the dictionaries give it origin to Latin, but it does stretch further off than that and undoubtedly come from 'Gen' (jinn) in the Semitic languages which refers to a Bodily person. Gentile and Pagan both mean similar things. One who belongs very much to their Bodies and this World is Pagan or Gentile. It was abused by sectarian-minded to cause an arrogance towards other individuals. They, the Pagans, live in "(another) World" which is the meaning that they are PaGan. It has often been used mockingly, and people have not really understood its full implication.
People who worship a god very separately and in a material way is a Pagan just as a Pagan can be someone who takes pleasure in buying the most expensive television on the market for their home and like to brag about it. One who seeks Bodily pleasure is a Pagan. But instead of mocking people for being one they ought to help them. One is not a Pagan for anything good but it is something that brings displeasure and which causes confusion. It breaks one's Spirit, makes it hollow and they indulge more and become more primitive and like the primate Body their soul was attached to.
If the passage you refer to is using the word 'allah' that does not even mean God. I have tried to say it all before. Rabb is the personal address of what is usually called God in English.
Quran is a hijacked scripture where the possessors interpreted it at their own will without understanding the literature. They sought to confirm an older religious sectarian doctrine also known as (Pharisee) Judaism using an Arabic tongue. It was a political game and they had their own agenda which was to incite discord against whom they considered to dishonor God since there had emerged another type of faith in the Middle-East during that time which approved of association with God. This is why the sectarian interpretation so harshly makes an onslaught on such association. The targets were the faith systems that people refer today as Gnostics which was popular after John the Baptist and Jesus, the Messiah. There started a heavy persecution of those followers of Jesus and John for what they stood for. Those people generally did not believe Jesus was a biological offspring of God, that was another story. The Roman empire began to persecute the "Gnostics"* just as the Arabs and other people exposed to sedition by the Jewish Persian clerics had. Islam as fabricated by those clerics is just a fake term for a religion that never existed. In fact it does not have any name but it can be said that 'allah' is the common denominator which means "Who Is (as such)". Islam is a continuation of Judaism in another shape with other terms and other nonsense, and Persian clerics were evidently involved in its formation, just explore a little about who wrote the hadith literature.
- No one referred to themselves as Gnostic during that time but it is a later term. The word gnostic means "esoteric".
Be safe
Amenuel -
In my opinion (and not just my own but other people as well) this 841 doesn't speak about war at all, but about the profit. You should give to those categories 1/5th of your every profit.
There is no war, just self-defense. Under any circumstances it's not allowed to steal, rape, murder innocent people. How is this not common sense I do not get.
Peace.
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In my opinion (and not just my own but other people as well) this 841 doesn't speak about war at all, but about the profit. You should give to those categories 1/5th of your every profit.
There is no war, just self-defense. Under any circumstances it's not allowed to steal, rape, murder innocent people. How is this not common sense I do not get.
Peace.
And know that anything you obtain of war booty - then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of it and for the Messenger and for near relatives and the orphans, the needy, and the traveler, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the day of criterion - the day when the two armies met. And Allah , over all things, is competent.
But it's as clear as day that 1/5 of the profit is to be given to god...and this is when the quran doesn not make any sense at all
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My initial question hasn't been answered yet the discussion branches out to another (related) topic, which also interesting, as pointed out by kamenriderkiki )
His question is valid Why Allah would ask 20% commission fee on war profit?
It's as if saying "Hey it's my war, I should have at least 20% stake of profit from it.."Nonetheless..
The "20% stake" might be relevant 1400 years ago.. but it is not relevant now.
Because NOW.. war is a "Loss making" enterprises..It's costly and due to massive destruction capability of modern armament, there will not be any "profit" because many of the "spoil of war" is destroyed anyway after the war. Instead of "gaining" the winning party shall bear the responsibility of doing the "rebuilding" of the destroyed assets, which incur additional cost.
Back to the "Gimme 20%" verses
There is GREAT possibility that some verses were actually an "injected" verses during the book compilation. ON this verse it seems it was written to justify 20% poll tax on war booty / plunder of war. -
Hey Jafar
I'm beginning to think that the quran isn't even from the divine at all since there are many scientific inaccuracyIt seems that the verse that you're issuing is for the people back then since prophets don't exist today, if it's intended for the people in the 7th century then i don't think that the quran is universal or evolving from time to time like other people have said, hence...not perfect
Thus the quran is man made,just writings of someone's admiration of God in a book and using it for War purposes in the name of God...
No offence
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I'm beginning to think that the quran isn't even from the divine at all since there are many scientific inaccuracy
Very much possible
It seems that the verse that you're issuing is for the people back then since prophets don't exist today, if it's intended for the people in the 7th century then i don't think that the quran is universal or evolving from time to time like other people have said...
Based on it's content, the Quran is not universal (meanings applicable at any places and at any time)
Thus the quran is man made, someone's admiration of God, put it in a book, and using it for War purposes
Very much possible, and I've met some people who have arrived at the same conclusion...
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Thus the quran is man made,just writings of someone's admiration of God in a book and using it for War purposes in the name of God...
What if the "war purpose" parts are not saying what you imply but rather said something else?
It was someone with admiration of a pagan deity who interpreted Quran, but it was not the same person who authored it.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Guys,some of you are just mocking and making fun. Qoran is challenging you to study it in detail and see what you can find?
You seem to just take verses out of context and make up daft and isolated mistranslation of words and sentences.
Either study all of it, then bring your findings for us to check and discuss or leave Qoran well alone. You do not have to believe in it!
Jafar, Where does GOD say He wants 20%?
Karmen, be serious and make the effort to study the book from cover to cover. At least give it a go. You seem to have some hypotheses about Qoran from some misconceptions and mistranslations,and you are now looking for evidence to throw the bath water with the baby?
I am only asking you guys to be fair to Qoran,like you want fairness for your views/opinions!
The threads are getting silly and embarrassingly nonsensical?
But it is your choice guys.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Jafar, Where does GOD say He wants 20%?
Reposting kamenriderkiki
And know that anything you obtain of war booty - then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of itI'm not sure that it's God who said that, most definitely it's somebody posing as "God's authority / agent on earth" and are using God's name to get 20% of share.
Let me rephrase that
I'm CERTAIN that THE TRUE GOD DOES NOT NEED OR WANT OR ASK FOR 20% from War booty..I am only asking you guys to be fair to Qoran,like you want fairness for your views/opinions!
I don't see anyone treating the Quran unfairly here..
The threads are getting silly and embarrassingly nonsensical?
On contrary, I see people are starting to get objectively sensical about holy artifacts, including Quran.
Which is a good sign..And makes it clearer that God is the only source of guidance... and not some holy artifacts, holy places or holy books.
God bless you too.
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Peace Jafar.
Exactly my point. You are quoting what someone said about a verse.
Have you looked at the context with all the verses throughout Qoran? Have you checked it really means what you have backed up by your comments?
Jafar, if you are serious about finding out what Qoran really says, do the honest thing and study it from cover to cover ,then come back here and we will discuss any detail you wish to bring up.
Of course,it is your choice,but do not expect to be taken seriously if you believe "hearsay" about Qoran and take them as facts.
A book is not judged by how "holy" or how popular it is, or... But by its contents when they are analysed properly and fairly.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The threads are getting silly and embarrassingly nonsensical?
But it is your choice guys.
GOD bless you.
Peace.I must admit that I am embarrassed by my involvement in this conversation.
Get well
@Jafar 8/41 simply means to share the spoils of war with a minimum of 20%
and to give zakat to "the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer."
(i.e., help folks)It's almost as if free-minds has disintegrated to the point of emptiness
with little to offer except doubt, logomachy, disbelief, misinformation,
stupidity, trolling, arrogance and the lack of intellectual integrity.God bless
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Peace Jafar
Have you looked at the context with all the verses throughout Qoran? Have you checked it really means what you have backed up by your comments?
Jafar, if you are serious about finding out what Qoran really says, do the honest thing and study it from cover to cover ,then come back here and we will discuss any detail you wish to bring up.Yes.. and how about you? have you checked?
The topic suddenly JUMPED on that SPECIFIC VERSE.
On the previous verses, the "You" was the "messenger".. the context was more of "encouragement" to the messenger to be "strong" in facing his enemy who are waging war against him.
On 43, the "You" seem to refer to someone else (not the messenger), with additional remark that 20% should go to Allah and then MESSENGER being explicitly mentioned...
Afterwards the mode of communication JUMPED BACK to "encouragement" where "you" refer to the messenger.
Of course,it is your choice,but do not expect to be taken seriously if you believe "hearsay" about Qoran and take them as facts.
And do not expect to be taken seriously either if you believe things which are said in your "holy book" you took them as a fact.
God bless you too..