Dr Zakir Naik
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Peace,
For the most part, I personally like Dr Zakir Naik. He is very knowledgeable and is able to quote verses from many different scriptures. I like his open question sessions the best as it shows his knowledge on various aspects.
He says that we should only call outselves Muslim and talks against Maddhabs in relation to naming yourself. He hasnt said anything against Sunnis though, but I know he upholds hadith. He said that the only two Hadiths that need to be followed are Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.
I think he believes that everyone should be able to practice their religion, just not propagate it, which is considered treason to him.
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Peace,
For the most part, I personally like Dr Zakir Naik. He is very knowledgeable and is able to quote verses from many different scriptures. I like his open question sessions the best as it shows his knowledge on various aspects.
Yes, what I like about him is that he is a very knowledgeable person. I think he is not really a bad person. I guess he probably just, like many other knowledgeable Muslims has never heard convincing argument about the belief of Quran only.
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Peace,
Yes, what I like about him is that he is a very knowledgeable person. I think he is not really a bad person. I guess he probably just, like many other knowledgeable Muslims has never heard convincing argument about the belief of Quran only.
Even here we all have different views regarding quran and life. Just because he believes death to apostates that "propagates" their religion, I dont think it makes him a bad guy. We all have faults in our own way as well. He's not really extreme like many others Ive heard about, and he seems very forthright in his belief. Just because hes not a Quran Alone person doesnt make me label him as a bad guy.
Peace
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Peace
Isn't this what we all think?
Roshan
No, it isn't (at least for me). I believe that muslims having the label quranists, sunnis, shias, christians, jews, etc (in sort whoever believes in God and The Last Day while do righteous deeds as per 262) shall have no fear.
While we realize that taking hadith books as the second volume of quran is nothing but associating partners with God, sunnis and shias who are not aware of this can still be forgiven for their shirk (and hence verse 262 applies). My understanding is from the dialog of Jesus and God regarding christians who are committing shirk.
5116 AND LO! God said "O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men,
Worship me and my mother as deities beside God'?" answered "Limitless art Thou in Thy glory! It would not have been possible for me to say what I had no right to ! Had I said this, Thou wouldst indeed have known it! Thou knowest all that is within myself, whereas I know not what is in Thy Self. Verily, it is Thou alone who fully knowest all the things that are beyond the reach of a created being's perception. 5117 Nothing did I tell them beyond what Thou didst bid meWorship God, my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer.' And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt in their midst; but since Thou hast caused me to die, Thou alone hast been their keeper'?? for Thou art witness unto everything.
5118 If thou cause them to suffer - verily, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them - verily, Thou alone art almighty, truly wise!"On the other hand, sunnis and shias who are NOT muslims, i.e. constantly rejecting quran after the verses already reach them, constantly associating Bukhari, Abu Dawud, etc as God's partners after knowing that hadith books are corrupted, not authentic, not reliable, and against the teaching of quran, then God will no longer be their protector. I personally believe that latter kinds of sunnis and shias will be among below
621 And who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations! The wicked will never succeed.
622 And the Day We gather them all, then We say to those who set up partners "Where are your partners whom you used to claim?"
623 Then, their only excuse was to Say "By God, our Lord, we did not set up partners!"
624 See how they lied to themselves; and that which they invented deserted them. -
Peace,
No, it isn't (at least for me). I believe that muslims having the label quranists, sunnis, shias, christians, jews, etc (in sort whoever believes in God and The Last Day while do righteous deeds as per 262) shall have no fear.
5116 AND LO! God said "O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men,
Worship me and my mother as deities beside God'?" answered "Limitless art Thou in Thy glory! It would not have been possible for me to say what I had no right to ! Had I said this, Thou wouldst indeed have known it! Thou knowest all that is within myself, whereas I know not what is in Thy Self. Verily, it is Thou alone who fully knowest all the things that are beyond the reach of a created being's perception. 5117 Nothing did I tell them beyond what Thou didst bid meWorship God, my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer.' And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt in their midst; but since Thou hast caused me to die, Thou alone hast been their keeper' for Thou art witness unto everything.
5118 If thou cause them to suffer - verily, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them - verily, Thou alone art almighty, truly wise!"Isnt it just saying that God can do whatever he wants, and not necessarily it being an option? Not saying that it isn't, but that was my understanding from it.
Also, I thought that shirk and associating partners with God is damnation for the person? I thought that it states that God will forgive whatever sins He wants after we die, except for shirk? Although I have to honest and say that personally I feel uncomfortable with that, isnt that what it states in the quran? Also, the quran says that we have the fitrah (instinct) in monotheism.
Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of al-haneefiyyah (strict monotheism). Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by GOD. Such creation of GOD will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.
I guess its like the animals natural instinct of Allah, except that we have the will to choose to follow it or not.
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Peace,
Isnt it just saying that God can do whatever he wants, and not necessarily it being an option? Not saying that it isn't, but that was my understanding from it.
Also, I thought that shirk and associating partners with God is damnation for the person? I thought that it states that God will forgive whatever sins He wants after we die, except for shirk? Although I have to honest and say that personally I feel uncomfortable with that, isnt that what it states in the quran? Also, the quran says that we have the fitrah (instinct) in monotheism.
Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of al-haneefiyyah (strict monotheism). Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by GOD. Such creation of GOD will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.
I guess its like the animals natural instinct of Allah, except that we have the will to choose to follow it or not.
Peace amuslim,
I agree that that God may forgive whatever sins except shirk.
448 Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
What I was trying to say is God will judge fairly. If someone was born as christian and never heard about quran, nobody told him worshipping Jesus is shirk then God knows that and He will judge him fairly. Just imagine someone who was born in sunni family in rural area. He doesn't have internet. He never heard about free-minds website. Nobody told him to follow only God's hadiths and stop associating Bukhari, Abu Dawud, etc as God's partners. Then even if for us he is commiting shirk, God knows his situation and He will judge him fairly.
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Peace all,
Peace amuslim,
I agree that that God may forgive whatever sins except shirk.
448 Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
What I was trying to say is God will judge fairly. If someone was born as christian and never heard about quran, nobody told him worshipping Jesus is shirk then God knows that and He will judge him fairly. Just imagine someone who was born in sunni family in rural area. He doesn't have internet. He never heard about free-minds website. Nobody told him to follow only God's hadiths and stop associating Bukhari, Abu Dawud, etc as God's partners. Then even if for us he is commiting shirk, God knows his situation and He will judge him fairly.
As far as I know the word 'kafir' means 'rejecter', so if some never heard of any belief which called on the service to the One God and not setting up partner with Him then that person never really rejected.
Well then the ayatun comes into place of it being fitra (natural instinct) for al-haneefiyyah (monotheism). Isnt shirk itself (be it kafir or not) still unforgiveable according to Quran or is it only kafir? If it was only Kafir, then Id think it would make sense, but thats my own reasoning and it may not be the correct one. May God guide us all.
Peace
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Dr. Zakir has contributed a lot in present day for Islam. No one is perfect offcourse.
He is no sunni or of any other sect as many of you are trying to assume, he is a Muslim. A very knowldgeable person; to answer live questions in front of thousands of audience and trying to convince is no joke offcourse.
I guess he probably just, like many other knowledgeable Muslims has never heard convincing argument about the belief of Quran only.
Come on dear friend it is not that;
It is just that he is one step ahead. When some knowldgeable muslim reads HAdith and history related to Quran, he becomes irritated, he is annoyed, he just cant believe the blunders committed, so the first step he takes is reject all that stuff rightaway, which by no standards of Research, scholar articles, written history, inscripitures etc. is acceptable. Then there those stop who are more knowldgeable then many, trying to make their lives according to their wills, but then come those who take one step further and try to dig out truth from false hood, that offcourse is a difficult task a very difficult one and ZAkir NAik belongs to those.
This was also discussed with m.asadi and Fahad some times ago. -
It is just that he is one step ahead. When some knowldgeable muslim reads HAdith and history related to Quran, he becomes irritated, he is annoyed, he just cant believe the blunders committed, so the first step he takes is reject all that stuff rightaway, which by no standards of Research, scholar articles, written history, inscripitures etc. is acceptable. Then there those stop who are more knowldgeable then many, trying to make their lives according to their wills, but then come those who take one step further and try to dig out truth from false hood, that offcourse is a difficult task a very difficult one and ZAkir NAik belongs to those.
This was also discussed with m.asadi and Fahad some times ago.How does supporting the killing of apostates make Zakir Naik one step ahead?
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Jankren
How does supporting the killing of apostates make Zakir Naik one step ahead?
16106 Any one who, after accepting faith in God, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from God, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. Qur?an.
Leviticus
24.16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. As well the stranger as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.Now if you believed in History or Hadith we would have discussed it with that point of view too, but since you don't, I will end it up by saying that There are some Hadith regarding killing of apostates but when researched and read properly they donot support killing of any apostate as a general rule.
As I mentioned in previous post Zakir Naik or no one other is perfect, they base their understanding on the knowldge they pocess. You may agree or may not but the fact remains he is sinciere with his mission of preaching Islam and is better then many many others.
Zakir Naik should also read this
Noble Verse 4137 "Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way."
Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then BELIEVE and again DISBELIEVE. if a Muslim rejects faith and is then killed for doing so how will he live to again BELIEVE and then DISBELIEVE. The atmosphere of this verse is that of free will and freedom of choice to everyone. If Allah wanted he would have said something about the punishment, if there was any, of those who reject Islam after accepting it. but Allah takes this to be clearly a private matter between them and Allah.
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Jankren
16106 Any one who, after accepting faith in God, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from God, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. Qur?an.Leviticus
24.16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. As well the stranger as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.Now if you believed in History or Hadith we would have discussed it with that point of view too, but since you don't, I will end it up by saying that There are some Hadith regarding killing of apostates but when researched and read properly they donot support killing of any apostate as a general rule.
As I mentioned in previous post Zakir Naik or no one other is perfect, they base their understanding on the knowldge they pocess. You may agree or may not but the fact remains he is sinciere with his mission of preaching Islam and is better then many many others.
Zakir Naik should also read this
Noble Verse 4137 "Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way."
Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then BELIEVE and again DISBELIEVE. if a Muslim rejects faith and is then killed for doing so how will he live to again BELIEVE and then DISBELIEVE. The atmosphere of this verse is that of free will and freedom of choice to everyone. If Allah wanted he would have said something about the punishment, if there was any, of those who reject Islam after accepting it. but Allah takes this to be clearly a private matter between them and Allah.
Thank you for quoting Surah Leviticus, but the verse itself states their punishment is with God. When cross-referenced with other verses that show believers have no chance of guiding others (i.e. you can bring an animal to the water, but will they drink?), it makes it clear that we are to do nothing except the usual attempted reconciliation.
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1099 And had your Lord willed, all the people on Earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?
1829 And say "The truth is from your Lord, so let whomever desires believe, and whomever desires reject." We have prepared for the wicked a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them. And if they cry out, they are given a water like boiling oil which burns their faces. What a miserable place!
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God is the One who guides and misguides. So if someone went astray by leaving Islam, shouldnt we stone God instead?
estaghfirullahi 3atheem.... how can we stone God when we cannot see Him?
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As Salaamu Alaikum
Jankren, Masha-ALLAH, I truly admire your posture of tolerance and wanting well being for all; that is truly an Islamic principle. And I don't want to seem as if I am debating some things of what you posted, in particular about becoming upset when you read what Dr. Zakir Naik said about apostacy, however I would like to make a point and offer an Islamic principle. The point is, there are two main aspects of Islam, there is the personal aspect, which includes ones creedal beliefs and the like and his individual worship; prayer, fasting, charity etc. The second aspect is the social reality. We do live amongst people and one can not just function as an individual in a society. SO ALLAH being the All Wise, HE had given us guidance in bothe aspects. Now, although what you believe and how you worship is personal, there are times when it open and reaches a social level, and at that point, if your actions or beliefs are potentially harmful to the society at large and the order thereof, then there are strict approcaches to it in order to maintain a safe running of the society. So for instance the hand of the thief gets cut, and on like this. Now, what Dr. Zakir Naik stated was not something that was his personal opinion, rather that is the Islamic Law. And its implications are societal based. Order must be maintained! And the greatest means or source of keeping order is adhering to the commands and laws of ALLAH, as an individual and as a society as a whole. So as a Muslim, and knowing that ALLAH is the All Wise, and the All Just and the All Knowing, then it should not bother you to hear what ALLAH has stated to be the law for certain action in a society.
And lastly, as it relates to quoting of Gahndi and others, then yes, these men have left us some wisdoms, and we can appreciate them and use them as they apply, but when these quotes go against other than what we find in OUR Deen, from the credal aspects or the worship then we are to refuse the other not what our Deen has established as beliefs.
Ma Salaam
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salaam all
I dont think that what he s tellin is all correct. But he is a huge sigh of relief
in an area like us, full of orthodox ground level sunnis, in considering to think
to understand what quran says instead of mere readin it.