Does The Souls also Have sex difference?
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Peace be upon you SA,
hehe...good I guess.
sometime I think that even God cant exist without this theory. May be IT is the relativity ITSELF..
what do u think ?
, well we know that the God is omnipresent, so "He" is definetly in "relativity", but the God is THAT which percieves, but cannot be percieved, so we can never know.
not knowing also falls under relavity...as it cant exist without knowing. Even to me, The whole existence depends on the theory of relativity..
peace
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Peace be upon you SA,
The whole existence depends on the theory of relativity
Having a good idea of what you mean by relativity, I would agree. These are the LAWS by which we are instructed. You reap what you sow. D
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Peace Shamsul,
hehe...good I guess.
sometime I think that even God cant exist without this theory. May be IT is the relativity ITSELF..
I'm not sure I understood you correctly, but my opinion is that theory's like that of relativity exist in this universe, there is no reason why they would exist outside of this dimension. The laws that we see in this universe (1+1 =2) do not necessarily exist outside of this realm. Thus, God is the creator of all these laws, and is not subject to them. Perhaps though it is the case that God chooses to govern through these laws, (why would God create laws and then break them? )
Peaaaaaace
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Peace Kyle,
You said that "We've got the mind...", If you can concieve the abstract term "mind", then why cant you concieve the absract term "soul"?
To me they are the SAME THING, mind/soul/spirit are the same thing, the Ruh being seperate from that described as "energy".
But again, how did you understand "mind" but not "soul"?
How is it that the mind/soul/spirit are the same thing, but ruh and nafs are different? Ruh and nafs are Arabic words? What does ruh and nafs mean in English as you understand them, lets begin here?
The nafs cannot control the mind, the reason is that the God says He does not change the condition of a people UNTIL they change what is in thier NAFS(mind). If the Nafs was to control the "mind", how could we change what is in our NAFS? That would be impossible. But if we take NAFS to be the mind(which is one of the definitions in Arabic dictionary), then we can see how we use our MINDS to change our conditions.
In your first sentence above you said nafs cannot control mind but then at the end of sentence you are implying that nafs IS mind ? NAFS (mind). This means that a mind cannot control mind? Either I am not correctly understanding your point or perhaps your explanation needs re-evaluation and elaboration. I believe once again, your are extrapolating, confusing and mixing the Arabic and English terms.
Besides how does anyone know what a soul is? Has anyone witnessed a soul as to give a complete description about?
I personally believe that mind/brains and soul/spirit are seperate entities? I am of the understanding that a soul/spirit lies within the mind/brains. But that's just my understanding and nothing concrete.
I'm sure many of you have heard the phrase, "use your brains" or "use your mind"? Ever heard of "use your soul" or "use your spirit"?
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I see that from the NAFS came many men and women, but that does not mean that the NAFS themselves are male of female.
Nafs is an abstract entity wherein the desires arise. Where is the question of males and females from it? Allah says he created man from a single soul(nafs) not from a single mind(nafs).
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If there were no men I think the human race would come to an end as well, unless Allah decided upon some other processes for human developement. As of now, I see that both the male and female are needed.
There already are the process revealed. Have you forgotten the Adam, mariam-isa history, joe?
I am talking about the FEMALE PRINCIPLE, not the gender "female". There is a "give" and "take" all over the universe.
"give" and "take" is only a relative term and event. Your "taking" becomes "giving" from the opposite sex. If we are not talking about the gender then the priniciples of male and female is only relative not absolute.
recieves the SEED from the spirit of the God
Please elaborate the symbolism of "god" and "the spirit" for better understanding.
When questioned about our new understanding, we do not speak of our own, but we point to the WORD, which is the best argument
New understanding itself is not of one's own; if we are made to speak by allah we are not ourselves even; so we speak only the god's words. In such case where is the pointing to a "word", separate from hisself?
May Allah increase us in our understanding!
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
If males receive pleasure from females, do then males become females in priniciple? What about the infertile women, whom allah make? Are they not females then, just because they are not receiving male's sperms?
The answer to all your questions is no. I stated that we are discussing the masculine and feminine PRINCIPLES, not males and females. Humans contain BOTH priniples within them. But in learning about spirituality, we must look at the WHOLE, and men and women are used as METAPHORS for these principles of life.
Please do a search on internet and find out more about what I am saying.
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Peace be upon you Danish,
How is it that the mind/soul/spirit are the same thing, but ruh and nafs are different? Ruh and nafs are Arabic words? What does ruh and nafs mean in English as you understand them, lets begin here?
Nafs= mind (soul/spirit all are terms to describe the same abstract concept)
Ruh=energy(the God's breath/wind that makes us conscious)
idolfree1 wrote
The nafs cannot control the mind, the reason is that the God says He does not change the condition of a people UNTIL they change what is in thier NAFS(mind). If the Nafs was to control the "mind", how could we change what is in our NAFS? That would be impossible. But if we take NAFS to be the mind(which is one of the definitions in Arabic dictionary), then we can see how we use our MINDS to change our conditions.In your first sentence above you said nafs cannot control mind but then at the end of sentence you are implying that nafs IS mind ? NAFS (mind). This means that a mind cannot control mind? Either I am not correctly understanding your point or perhaps your explanation needs re-evaluation and elaboration. I believe once again, your are extrapolating, confusing and mixing the Arabic and English terms.
Yes, you have misunderstood. To make it simple, I understand the Nafs to be Mind, which needs controlling by the God's energy(ruh), otherwise your emotions will run you and you will be no better than an animal.
Besides how does anyone know what a soul is? Has anyone witnessed a soul as to give a complete description about?
Mind/soul/spirit, etc are all abstract concepts. They need to be discussed in detail so we can find out which ones we need and which we should reject.
I personally believe that mind/brains and soul/spirit are seperate entities? I am of the understanding that a soul/spirit lies within the mind/brains. But that's just my understanding and nothing concrete.
I'm sure many of you have heard the phrase, "use your brains" or "use your mind"? Ever heard of "use your soul" or "use your spirit"?
Yes, that is why we should discuss it fully. Also, the physical rain is not what the abstrct term "mind" is referring to.
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drfazl If males receive pleasure from females, do then males become females in priniciple? What about the infertile women, whom allah make? Are they not females then, just because they are not receiving male's sperms?
idolfree The answer to all your questions is no. I stated that we are discussing the masculine and feminine PRINCIPLES, not males and females. Humans contain BOTH priniples within them. But in learning about spirituality, we must look at the WHOLE, and men and women are used as METAPHORS for these principles of life.
So soon you can conclude and dismiss with a single 'NO' as an answer to all my questions ? I am discussing regarding 'Principles' alone. In fact you have either overlooked my questions are excusing yourself for your inability to answer. Please answer. If male and female are metaphors of the same principle; and, if such principle is in both the genders, 'humans' as you say, why these two genders are created distinctly different from each other. Allah does not create a thing in waste. There is a serious lacuna in your 'thesis of metaphorism'. Why men and women are to be used as metaphoric principles if both the genders contain both the principles within them?
Please do a search on internet and find out more about what I am saying.
What I am asking here for clarification is from you. You say you are developing and understanding newer things. So deliver your latest knowledge as you are evolving. Do not push me back to do a serach on the NET which I should take only as a signal from you that you have not evolved any further than what you were when you put your thesis first on the internet. Please do a soul searching and answer here. There are many questions you have either dismissed or overlooked which I bring back again.
When questioned about our new understanding, we do not speak of our own, but we point to the WORD, which is the best argument.
NEW UNDERSTANDING MEANS you are developing, thus far behind in 'principles' from the truth if you agree that truth is eternal process. New understanding itself is not of one's own; if we are made to speak by allah we are not ourselves even; so we speak only the god's words. In such case where is the pointing to a "word", separate from Isa, himself? "We point to the Word" again, is it not tangible in the sense it has sound and sight for the material ears and eyes? If we are to evolve from this life we cannot live mataphorically but by wholly submitting our physical body and physical mind in full compliance with the abstract soul.
I stated that we are discussing the masculine and feminine PRINCIPLES, not males and females
I understand that very well. You have overlooked my answer. i am discussing only principle wise that you can see here
"give" and "take" is only a relative term and event. Your "taking" becomes "giving" from the opposite. If we are not talking about the gender then, the priniciples of male and female is only relative not absolute. Here the metaphoric principle suffers seriously in that it is creating confusion due to lack of discretion. Please clarify.recieves the SEED from the spirit of the God
Please elaborate the symbolism of "god" and "the spirit" for better understanding.
idolfree1
I see that from the NAFS came many men and women, but that does not mean that the NAFS themselves are male of female.Nafs is an abstract entity wherein the desires arise. Where is the question of men and women from it? Allah says he created man from a single nafs(soul) not from a single mind (nafs).
Do you care to clarify the above questions idol? BTW, the underlined part above "many men and women" that you are referring to are they physical male and females? That is in order to conclude you are coming back to the reality for final understanding. Metaphorism must be brought back to the form and shape for its approval and crediblity with tangible examples and so on.
May Allah Bless Us All
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
idolfree The answer to all your questions is no. I stated that we are discussing the masculine and feminine PRINCIPLES, not males and females. Humans contain BOTH priniples within them. But in learning about spirituality, we must look at the WHOLE, and men and women are used as METAPHORS for these principles of life.
So soon you can conclude and dismiss with a single 'NO' as an answer to all my questions ? I am discussing regarding 'Principles' alone. In fact you have either overlooked my questions are excusing yourself for your inability to answer. Please answer.
I think it is you who overlooked my answer, after I said "no", I stated;
" I stated that we are discussing the masculine and feminine PRINCIPLES, not males and females. Humans contain BOTH priniples within them. But in learning about spirituality, we must look at the WHOLE, and men and women are used as METAPHORS for these principles of life."
If male and female are metaphors of the same principle; and, if such principle is in both the genders, 'humans' as you say, why these two genders are created distinctly different from each other. Allah does not create a thing in waste. There is a serious lacuna in your 'thesis of metaphorism'. Why men and women are to be used as metaphoric principles if both the genders contain both the principles within them?
While all humans have BOTH principles within them, each has more of one than the other, thus male GENDER and female GENDER. So the Male GENDER is used as a metaphor for the male principle, while the female GENDER is used for the female principle. The stories of theMALE prophets and messangers is not just for men, and the story of Mariam is not just for women, it is for ALL HUMANS to realize these PRINCIPLES within themselves.
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Please do a search on internet and find out more about what I am saying.What I am asking here for clarification is from you. You say you are developing and understanding newer things. So deliver your latest knowledge as you are evolving. Do not push me back to do a serach on the NET which I should take only as a signal from you that you have not evolved any further than what you were when you put your thesis first on the internet. Please do a soul searching and answer here. There are many questions you have either dismissed or overlooked which I bring back again.
Many questions? Please list them. I am not pushing you back, but I ask that you do some study of your own on what I am saying if you are REALLY concerend with what I am saying. Your refusal to do so indicates to me that you do not take what I am stating serious enough to do any further study, but are just waiting for some error to point out.
idolfree wrote
When questioned about our new understanding, we do not speak of our own, but we point to the WORD, which is the best argument.NEW UNDERSTANDING MEANS you are developing, thus far behind in 'principles' from the truth if you agree that truth is eternal process. New understanding itself is not of one's own;
No, that is why we read the story where the God sent His energy(ruh) to Mary and by that "ruh" she brought forth the WORD(isa).
if we are made to speak by allah we are not ourselves even; so we speak only the god's words.
I don't understand what you are saying here.
In such case where is the pointing to a "word", separate from Isa, himself?
Isa IS the word, where did I say they were seperate? The story is SYMBOLIC of this process.
"We point to the Word" again, is it not tangible in the sense it has sound and sight for the material ears and eyes? If we are to evolve from this life we cannot live mataphorically but by wholly submitting our physical body and physical mind in full compliance with the abstract soul.
Here we go again, you are putting words in my mouth that I have not said. Please copy and paste where I stated that one must LIVE metaphorically. Further, please show me this "physical MIND" that you speak of, please point it out, keeping in mind that the BRAIN is not the mind.
idolfree wrote
I stated that we are discussing the masculine and feminine PRINCIPLES, not males and femalesI understand that very well. You have overlooked my answer. i am discussing only principle wise that you can see here
"give" and "take" is only a relative term and event.Yes, and I agree, it is relative, how does that differ from what I have said?
Your "taking" becomes "giving" from the opposite. If we are not talking about the gender then, the priniciples of male and female is only relative not absolute. Here the metaphoric principle suffers seriously in that it is creating confusion due to lack of discretion. Please clarify.
How does it suffer? Lets take one exaple and work with that one so that you can help me understand better what you are trying to say. I take the story of Mariam to indicate the MIND(nafs), both MAriam and NAFS are feminine. Following the story of MAriam, it indicates to me that that the MIND should be RECEPTIVE for the God's energy(ruh-God's divine will). When the God's Divine Energy IMPERGNATES the MIND, the WORD comes forth.
Please tell me how the principle "suffers" in that understanding.
idolfree wrote
recieves the SEED from the spirit of the GodPlease elaborate the symbolism of "god" and "the spirit" for better understanding.
Please go to salaat section and read my article entitled "The Human and the process or Remembrance". You can find elaboration in that article.
idolfree wrote
idolfree1
I see that from the NAFS came many men and women, but that does not mean that the NAFS themselves are male of female.Nafs is an abstract entity wherein the desires arise. Where is the question of men and women from it? Allah says he created man from a single nafs(soul) not from a single mind (nafs).
I noticed an error above on my part, the Nafs IS feminine, and from "her" comes many men and women. Your disagreement is that you translate "nafs" as Soul while I translate it as MIND. Both soul and mind are abstract terms, what evidence do you have that it should be "soul" not "mind"?
Do you care to clarify the above questions idol?
Done.
BTW, the underlined part above "many men and women" that you are referring to are they physical male and females? That is in order to conclude you are coming back to the reality for final understanding. Metaphorism must be brought back to the form and shape for its approval and crediblity with tangible examples and so on.
e are trying to figure out this tangible world with abstract concepts, so yes, the "men and women" are physical men and women, where is the problem with that?
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Peace be upon you Elena,
Since soul is not physical, why to try to assing physical notions to it?
Only reason would be to understand how this abstract concept is to be applied. The word "nafs" is feminine, so I think that speaks for itself
Not GENDER, but feminine as a principle of "being in a state of receptivity", as the MIND is.
The MIND is like a garden that recieves seed, or the woman that recieves seed, or MARIAM...