Ture Islam Resides Somewhere Between Salafi(Shia) and Quranist(JAQ)

parvez_mushtaq

Assalamualaikum Rahamatullahi Wabarakathahu

As I am nearing my 100th post here on FM ,I want to review what has happened here so far.

Firstly , so far none of quranaist (JAQ) has answered the three magical verses from the quran .
1.Verse 2.3
Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,

2.Verse 56.13 and 14
A company of the former peoples
And a few from those of later times.

Verse 2.113
And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know not.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608188.msg383622#msg383622

Secondly, they have fail to derive salah from the quran as well as they could not defend themselves against the traditional salah pattern which is being followed by our ancestors down the ages
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608260.msg383728#msg383728
and
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608286.msg384400#msg384400

finally , JAQ's could not make me clear the manipulation they made regrading Zakah
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12267.msg384761#msg384761

So this is the story so far

the final out come of the above arguments make me very clear that neither salafi(shai) nor the quranist(JAQ) are correct and the true Islam resides somewhere in between the two

Regards
Mushtaq

es

What are "JAQs"?

Wakas

peace,

As I am nearing my 100th post here on FM ,I want to review what has happened here so far.

Firstly , so far none of quranaist (JAQ) has answered the three magical verses from the quran

I didn't see any questions to answer. Perhaps you clarify what you are expecting answered, and ideally with falsifiable parameters (so we can determine if it can be answered or not). Also if you wish to provide your answers to your own questions, so we can see some examples of what you're expecting.

Secondly, they have fail to derive salah from the quran as well as they could not defend themselves against the traditional salah pattern...

You seem to be asking can you derive a non-Quranic version of salat from Quran?

finally , JAQ's could not make me clear the manipulation they made regrading Zakah

Can you clarify what you mean? If you're line of enquiry rests upon the non-existent manipulation of 2.5% annual charity donation from Quran then again, you seem to be asking about a non-Quranic interpretation from Quran - which is not possible to answer.

So this is the story so far

the final out come of the above arguments make me very clear that neither salafi(shai) nor the quranist(JAQ) are correct and the true Islam resides somewhere in between the two

You may well be right but with the questions you're asking it's impossible to tell.

parvez_mushtaq

What are "JAQs"?

JAQ = Jamaat-e-Ahlul Quran

parvez_mushtaq

It is good to see you here, Wakas .Hope you will answer all my questions
let me show you a picture of Quran first
https//www.pinterest.com/pin/484699978621625492/
note the size of the quran then ,obviously it was not possible that every household had a copy of Such Quran .So it evident that Islam spread through oral transmission .i mean every thing Quran ,Salah , Zakah as well as hajj.people never carried books with them but everything was thought orally .I know you knew all these things but this is very important concept for my discussions .

I didn't see any questions to answer. Perhaps you clarify what you are expecting answered, and ideally with falsifiable parameters (so we can determine if it can be answered or not). Also if you wish to provide your answers to your own questions, so we can see some examples of what you're expecting.

Obviously ,as Islam is orally transmitted ,it gets purer and purer if we travel backwards .not only Islam ,this is the case for every religion.In this context ,Why I should not say our bukhari & Co were far better Muslims than us .how will you judge us with this verses
2.Verse 56.13 and 14
A company of the former peoples
And a few from those of later times.

You seem to be asking can you derive a non-Quranic version of salat from Quran?

I really don't know on what ground you claim that the salah pattern with us is not the version of quran
even today, salah is thought by performing it and it never thought by carrying hadith books .We have same salah pattern in all sects with the casualties caused by sectarianism .we don't have to derive salah from quran because salah was transmitted by the same media as quran .how can we deny a 1400 year old tradition.

........ If you're line of enquiry rests upon the non-existent manipulation of 2.5% annual charity donation from Quran then again, you seem to be asking about a non-Quranic interpretation from Quran - which is not possible to answer.

Again the same answer - traditional transmission (about 2.5%)

Can you clarify what you mean?

I presume your were the king pin in the progressive Muslims translation of quran
then can you pl tell , how you have translated "zakah" as "contribute towards purification" and ALLAH as God
if you have any justification than why you did not translated Moses as "to pull/draw out" and Jesus as "God saves."

You may well be right but with the questions you're asking it's impossible to tell.

imagine a scale ,on one side ,salafi or shia and on the other side quranist .these questions add weight to salafi(shai) and the needle will go towards salafi(shai) because these things are answered very easily by them .

Recluse

The truth is, there is no such thing as true Islam, true Christianity or true Judaism. The truth is within your own conscience and intellect. The truth is actually very simple; don't murder, don't oppress, don't steal. That is "true" Islam, true Judaism and true Christianity.

Wakas

peace parvez,

I find your questions and line of enquiry poor

Re 5613-14
This verse was obviously revealed at the time, thus could apply to Bukhari (i.e. being from the later people). In any case, the verses can be interpreted in more than one way and are thus not decisive enough to derive a solid conclusion from. It seems strange you are basing your arguments upon such a verse.

I really don't know on what ground you claim that the salah pattern with us is not the version of quran...

The burden of proof is upon the one making the claim. YOU are claiming the Traditional prayer is the salat of Quran - prove it.
Your reply to this is an appeal to tradition logical fallacy http//www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-tradition.html

Again the same answer - traditional transmission (about 2.5%)

Again, same logical fallacy.

...we don't have to derive salah from quran because salah was transmitted by the same media as quran

I understand why you'd say that, as it is an indirect way of admitting you cannot derive the Traditional version of salat from Quran, thus rely on imperfect tradition.
You then want us to believe this imperfect tradition has the same standing (in terms of soundness) as Quran. This is false
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601994.msg271968#msg271968

I presume your were the king pin in the progressive Muslims translation of quran

You presume incorrectly.

Rather than conducting your investigation, starting with poor questions/reasoning and false information, perhaps you'd find it more fruitful to take a more logical and evidenced approach.

In my view, of course not all of Traditional Islam is incorrect. To filter what is what, The Quran is my criterion.

Reflect.

parvez_mushtaq

The truth is, there is no such thing as true Islam, true Christianity or true Judaism. The truth is within your own conscience and intellect. The truth is actually very simple; don't murder, don't oppress, don't steal. That is "true" Islam, true Judaism and true Christianity.

A good sermons , Recluse
i wonder how many of Muslims or Jews or Muslims are doing murder etc

pl come up with a proper argument

Recluse

A good sermons , Recluse
i wonder how many of Muslims or Jews or Muslims are doing murder etc

pl come up with a proper argument

Just an example; Muslims support the creation of a Caliphate for example; what have Caliphates done for centuries? Invade, steal, enslave and plunder. That is what religious bigotry and nationalism do. People who think they alone have the absolute truth will support immoral acts because they are blinded by their own ideology. The same applies to Jews and Christians and everybody else.

Man_of_Faith

It was a proper argument. Murder, oppression and theft are only the extremities of what violent behavior (anger), bullying and exploitation leads to. And he only gave examples, and probably include other things as well.

parvez_mushtaq

This is my 99th post and i am answering your 9999th post ,wakas ...lets celebrate bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo
your are 9900 posts ahead of me ....... bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo

peace parvez,

I find your questions and line of enquiry poor

Re 5613-14
This verse was obviously revealed at the time, thus could apply to Bukhari (i.e. being from the later people). In any case, the verses can be interpreted in more than one way and are thus not decisive enough to derive a solid conclusion from. It seems strange you are basing your arguments upon such a verse.

Give me the other interpretation ,that is what I am asking the quranist
This verse is the clear proof for traditional transmission .ALLAH subhanavatala not only preserved quran but also its application as well as salah,zakah and hajj .down the ages people solved their problems by using quran .in other words they lived with the quran and followed it better than us that is why each of our previous generation is better than its successors .what we are following is the most diluted version of quran and our successors are going to be worst than us .

The burden of proof is upon the one making the claim. YOU are claiming the Traditional prayer is the salat of Quran - prove it.
Your reply to this is an appeal to tradition logical fallacy http//www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-tradition.html

Correction ,Wakas i never made a claim that procedure of salah is there in the quran rather i will post my previous post here

You seem to be asking can you derive a non-Quranic version of salat from Quran?

]I really don't know on what ground you claim that the salah pattern with us is not the version of quran
even today, salah is thought by performing it and it never thought by carrying hadith books .We have same salah pattern in all sects with the casualties caused by sectarianism .we don't have to derive salah from quran because salah was transmitted by the same media as quran .how can we deny a 1400 year old tradition.

i never told traditional prayer is there in the quran .however , quran talks about the salah and its components like standing ,ruhkhu,sujood as well as rakkats but never gave the details about what is to be read in them yet quran is complete and never left any thing .then what happened to salah procedure
again ,our ancestors never had this type of problems because they were better than us
as per quran ,salah was there even before the revelation of quran
and our prophet was performing salah so there was no need to give the description of salah in quran
quran only made only one abrogation in salah

Surah 73 Aya 4
Or add to it, and recite the Qur'an with measured recitation

it just commanded our prophet to read quran in salah

let me take a dua (supplication) from Ibrahim alaissalam

Verse 2.126
And when Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a secure city and provide its people with fruits - whoever of them believes in Allah and the Last Day." said. "And whoever disbelieves - I will grant him enjoyment for a little; then I will force him to the punishment of the Fire, and wretched is the destination."
Verse 2.127
And when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and Ishmael, , "Our Lord, accept from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.
Verse 2.128
Our Lord, and make us Muslims to You and from our descendants a Muslim nation to You. And show us our rites and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

Note this dua(supplication) of Ibrahim alassalam ""My Lord, make this a secure city and provide its people with fruits - whoever of them believes in Allah and the Last Day.""
This dau was accepted by the most merciful and what a way to give reward to his salve .this verses stood true for at least 1400 years ! people are going to mecca and it is a secure place and we get best food in a place where you cannot see sand to cultivate ! just rocks ! yet no one sleeps with a empty stomach there .

Now let me take the third part of this dua "And show us our rites and accept our repentance" in arabic
Verse 2.128

= our ways of worship (male plural accusative noun)
i know you the better person than me in deriving the meaning of Arabic words ,Wakas
any way
so he was asking ALLAH subhanavatala to show the ways of worship
and as the answer to his supplication, ALLAH subhanvatala not only thought him all the ways of worship namely salah, zakah and hajj but also made us to follow them too

The proof is traditional transmission
whether you like it or not ,whether you believe it or not this is the fact and as the token of acceptance of his supplication ALLAH subhanavatala made trillions of Muslims to send peace and blessing upon Ibrahim alaissalam and his family every time they perform salah .
You may say it is wrong but this was/is the fact .it is staring on us ,Wakas .ALLAH subhanavatala as elevated the status of Ibrahim alaissalam to the level we cannot imagine .what a way to accept the supplication
can we call all the Muslims down the ages were fools because they were performing salah that cannot be derived by Quran

In that case can you tell me where we stand in this ayah
Verse 2.13
And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know not.

So in nutshell , Quran ,salah ,zakat and hajj were all different from each other and were transmitted to us through the same media called traditional transmission and that nutshell is Islam

In my view, of course not all of Traditional Islam is incorrect. To filter what is what, The Quran is my criterion.

i spend four years in studying quran and its tafsir and i spend one year in learning quranic grammar then i attended BAIS of IOU .my perception never changed .it was similar to you .take my word ,Wakas . i am ready to clean the deck of the ship in which you are the captain .so list the traditions which you think are correct

waiting for 10000th post ........ )
Regards
Mushtaq

Bender

i spend four years in studying quran and its tafsir and i spend one year in learning quranic grammar then i attended BAIS of IOU .my perception never changed.

Regards
Mushtaq

Salaam Mushtaq,

RED Most of times this is not a good sign.
Maybe it's an idea to try to study the quran without tafsirs, I am positive you will see new doors appearing.

Salaam,
Bender

Zulf

Quote from Wakas on Yesterday at 024801 PM

The burden of proof is upon the one making the claim. YOU are claiming the Traditional prayer is the salat of Quran - prove it.
Your reply to this is an appeal to tradition logical fallacy http//www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-tradition.html

Correction ,Wakas i never made a claim that procedure of salah is there in the quran rather i will post my previous post here

Just thought I'd aid in clarification. Hope I didn't misunderstand.

I think Wakas wanted to say that you claim that the word Salat in the quran REFERS to the Traditional prayer, i.e. that Salat in the quran MEANS the Traditional prayer. He didn't say that you claimed that the traditional prayer was detailed in the quranic text.

Peace

Hizbullah

Salam Brother....

This is my 99th post and i am answering your 9999th post ,wakas ...lets celebrate bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo
your are 9900 posts ahead of me ....... bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravoGive me the other interpretation ,that is what I am asking the quranist
This verse is the clear proof for traditional transmission .ALLAH subhanavatala not only preserved quran but also its application as well as salah,zakah and hajj .down the ages people solved their problems by using quran .in other words they lived with the quran and followed it better than us that is why each of our previous generation is better than its successors .what we are following is the most diluted version of quran and our successors are going to be worst than us .

The Quran says in 1509 - Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.

But than in the same Chapter verse 90 - 91

Just as We had revealed to the separators

Those who made the Quran into a form one cannot comprehand

So, could you kindly explain.

Correction ,Wakas i never made a claim that procedure of salah is there in the quran rather i will post my previous post here
i never told traditional prayer is there in the quran .however , quran talks about the salah and its components like standing ,ruhkhu,sujood as well as rakkats but never gave the details about what is to be read in them yet quran is complete and never left any thing .then what happened to salah procedure
again ,our ancestors never had this type of problems because they were better than us
as per quran ,salah was there even before the revelation of quran
and our prophet was performing salah so there was no need to give the description of salah in quran
quran only made only one abrogation in salah

Where in the quran that says about raka'ah? Could you kindly show me.

Surah 73 Aya 4
Or add to it, and recite the Qur'an with measured recitation

it just commanded our prophet to read quran in salah

I believe in order to comprehend the above verse which is talking about night vigil and how long should one spend on the duration of night vigil, you will have to cross-reference with 7320

The proof is traditional transmission
whether you like it or not ,whether you believe it or not this is the fact and as the token of acceptance of his supplication ALLAH subhanavatala made trillions of Muslims to send peace and blessing upon Ibrahim alaissalam and his family every time they perform salah .
You may say it is wrong but this was/is the fact .it is staring on us ,Wakas .ALLAH subhanavatala as elevated the status of Ibrahim alaissalam to the level we cannot imagine .what a way to accept the supplication
can we call all the Muslims down the ages were fools because they were performing salah that cannot be derived by Quran

In that case can you tell me where we stand in this ayah
Verse 2.13
And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know not.

So in nutshell , Quran ,salah ,zakat and hajj were all different from each other and were transmitted to us through the same media called traditional transmission and that nutshell is Islam i spend four years in studying quran and its tafsir and i spend one year in learning quranic grammar then i attended BAIS of IOU .my perception never changed .it was similar to you .take my word ,Wakas . i am ready to clean the deck of the ship in which you are the captain .so list the traditions which you think are correct

waiting for 10000th post ........ )

The Quran also says in 06112 - 116

And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.

And so the hearts of those who disbelieve in the Hereafter will incline toward it and that they will be satisfied with it and that they will commit that which they are committing.

"Then is it other than ALLAH I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters.

And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.

Further the Quran says 4506

These are the verses of ALLAH which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after ALLAH and HIS verses will they believe?

parvez_mushtaq

Salaam Mushtaq,
RED Most of times this is not a good sign.
Salaam,
Bender

Walaikumsalam, Bender

Yes , i am ready for the change ,just prove me where i am wrong

Maybe it's an idea to try to study the quran without tafsirs, I am positive you will see new doors appearing.

Salaam,
Bender

It was course ,unofficial ,conducted by a scholar of IRGC at IIS (Islamic international school .Chennai)
BTW ,for a ordinary Muslim , to understand Quran without tafsir is impossible .Any way ALLAH subhanavatala has given every body his own will to judge .

parvez_mushtaq

Correction ,Wakas i never made a claim that procedure of salah is there in the quran rather i will post my previous post here

Just thought I'd aid in clarification. Hope I didn't misunderstand.

I think Wakas wanted to say that you claim that the word Salat in the quran REFERS to the Traditional prayer, i.e. that Salat in the quran MEANS the Traditional prayer. He didn't say that you claimed that the traditional prayer was detailed in the quranic text.

Peace

You are correct, Zulf
I thought it implies and i was wrong .I apologize for that

parvez_mushtaq

Salam Brother....

The Quran says in 1509 - Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.

But than in the same Chapter verse 90 - 91

Just as We had revealed to the separators

Those who made the Quran into a form one cannot comprehand

So, could you kindly explain.

Walaikumsalam, Hizbullah

I think i am wrong person to ask this question .if you ask me ,either i will copy paste the tafsirs or i will reconstruct them in my own language
i would like ,as a quranist , how you will explain this verses

Where in the quran that says about raka'ah? Could you kindly show me.

Verse 4.102
And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be behind you and have the other group come forward which has not prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

I believe in order to comprehend the above verse which is talking about night vigil and how long should one spend on the duration of night vigil, you will have to cross-reference with 7320

Ok,what was our prophet was doing the whole night or part of night ,just standing

And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.

And so the hearts of those who disbelieve in the Hereafter will incline toward it and that they will be satisfied with it and that they will commit that which they are committing.

"Then is it other than ALLAH I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters.

And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.

Further the Quran says 4506

These are the verses of ALLAH which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after ALLAH and HIS verses will they believe?

I dont know what you are trying to prove with this ayahs .can you elaborate your explanation

Hizbullah

Salamun alaikum Parvez

The Quran says in 1509 - Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.

But than in the same Chapter verse 90 - 91

Just as We had revealed to the separators

Those who made the Quran into a form one cannot comprehend

So, could you kindly explain.

Have you read 1509 and 1590-91? My question is do you think our CREATOR would contradict HIMSELF? I don think so. The Quran itself tells us that 1509 was fabricated by those separators who made the Quran into a form one cannot comprehend!

I will also show proof you that the Arabic version of this Quran was not written in this script but Musnad script.

Q6304 - And when you look at them,you wonder their personality and when they speak, you listen to their speech. That they were Musnad on stick...

This is the Miracle of the Quran, it tells us everything!

And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be behind you and have the other group come forward which has not prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

The verse that you put up shows clearly that there are no rakaah. The procedure is very simple, Standing, Kneeling-Prostrating. Once you get up from prostrating thats the end of the salat!

Ok,what was our prophet was doing the whole night or part of night ,just standing

Off course, if you can keep up. Sit if you cannot, And remember you LORD who cherish you.

Q1779 - And from the night, vigil, with it as additional for you; it is expected that your Lord will resurrect you to a praised station.

I dont know what you are trying to prove with this ayahs .can you elaborate your explanation

The proof is traditional transmission
whether you like it or not ,whether you believe it or not this is the fact and as the token of acceptance of his supplication ALLAH subhanavatala made trillions of Muslims to send peace and blessing upon Ibrahim alaissalam and his family every time they perform salah .
You may say it is wrong but this was/is the fact .it is staring on us ,Wakas .ALLAH subhanavatala as elevated the status of Ibrahim alaissalam to the level we cannot imagine .what a way to accept the supplication
can we call all the Muslims down the ages were fools because they were performing salah that cannot be derived by Quran

In that case can you tell me where we stand in this ayah
Verse 2.13
And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know not.

So in nutshell , Quran ,salah ,zakat and hajj were all different from each other and were transmitted to us through the same media called traditional transmission and that nutshell is Islam i spend four years in studying quran and its tafsir and i spend one year in learning quranic grammar then i attended BAIS of IOU .my perception never changed .it was similar to you .take my word ,Wakas . i am ready to clean the deck of the ship in which you are the captain .so list the traditions which you think are correct

waiting for 10000th post ........
Regards
Mushtaq

You wrote above and my replied in the last.

Salam

parvez_mushtaq

As per the title ,i should also show the other side of the coin too

I will highlight few of them
1.the revival of enslaving POW by ISIS...i think i don't have write anything about this
2.The oppression of labors who work in Saudia .one main highlight of this is any one working in S A cannot perform hajj which is the part of slavery law
pl follow this link and read the point number 4
https//islamqa.info/en/41957
3.killing an apostate
4.stoning of an adulteress and adulterer
5.claiming that quran we have now with us is not the same that was reveled to our prophet
reference Verse 2.106 an verse 87.7

right now i have only this points .

parvez_mushtaq

Salamun alaikum Parvez

Have you read 1509 and 1590-91? My question is do you think our CREATOR would contradict HIMSELF? I don think so. The Quran itself tells us that 1509 was fabricated by those separators who made the Quran into a form one cannot comprehend!

I will also show proof you that the Arabic version of this Quran was not written in this script but Musnad script.

Q6304 - And when you look at them,you wonder their personality and when they speak, you listen to their speech. That they were Musnad on stick...
This is the Miracle of the Quran, it tells us everything!

I don't know what you to prove with these verses
Are you trying to uphold the Sam Shamoun's claim .better read tafsir of these verses .BTW this verse are not at all related to this topic .

The verse that you put up shows clearly that there are no rakaah. The procedure is very simple, Standing, Kneeling-Prostrating. Once you get up from prostrating thats the end of the salat!

Wow , let analyze your spectacular discovery
Verse 4.102
And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be behind you and have the other group come forward which has not prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

read the underlined part , what was our prophet doing their

You wrote above and my replied in the last.

My Dear Sir pl don't give telegraphic messages. can you elaborate and say what you want me to understand from those verses .I know you gave those verses as the answer to verse 2.13 .my question why and what i have to understand from this verses