Ture Islam Resides Somewhere Between Salafi(Shia) and Quranist(JAQ)

Hizbullah

I don't know what you to prove with these verses
Are you trying to uphold the Sam Shamoun's claim .better read tafsir of these verses .BTW this verse are not at all related to this topic .

Who is Sam Shamoun, author of the Quran? My dear brother, I am not a blind follower. I dont need those so called scholar to interprete the Quran for me. Btw, it is related, your post below

This is my 99th post and i am answering your 9999th post ,wakas ...lets celebrate bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo
your are 9900 posts ahead of me ....... bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravoGive me the other interpretation ,that is what I am asking the quranist
This verse is the clear proof for traditional transmission .ALLAH subhanavatala not only preserved quran but also its application as well as salah,zakah and hajj .down the ages people solved their problems by using quran .in other words they lived with the quran and followed it better than us that is why each of our previous generation is better than its successors

My question is if ALLAH preserve the Quran, why in 1591, HE the EXALTED says that those separators / sectarions, made the Quran into a form one cannot comprehand? Further, in 6304, confirms that the Prophet, were with those who spoke Ancient South Arabian dialect. The Musnad script mentioned in 6304 proves it all. That means, the Original Arabic version of the Quran was written in the Musnad script. But what we have now written in Modern Arabic script and the morphology is quite different compare to the ASA! Please see below link, it tells u the morphology of ASA.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfCo__kUowk

The San'a Codex found in Yemen dated in the 6th Century, written in Hijazi Script. The so called Arab prophet was born as recorded, in the 6th Century? In the 7th Century, the Arabic script evolved to Kuffic Script, this was the era of the Abbassiah. Their HQ was in Kuffah. That is where, the Kuffic script derived from.

If ALLAH preserve the Quran,

Why there are changes to the Script of the Original Arabic Version?
Where is the Bless Land, where the Baitullah is?
Was the Quran sent to only 1 geographical area and only in Arabic language?

Wow , let analyze your spectacular discovery
Verse 4.102
And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be behind you and have the other group come forward which has not prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

read the underlined part , what was our prophet doing their

You wrote below

however , quran talks about the salah and its components like standing ,ruhkhu,sujood as well as rakkats but never gave the details about what is to be read in them yet quran is complete and never left any thing

So, from what I read in your post above, there are more than 1 rakaah. Btw, the word rakaah is not compatible with the Quran! Nowhere in the Quran mentioned this word. Could you enlighten me please, i might have overlooked. However, reading the verse 04102, it shows clearly that the procedure of salat which is, 1st - Standing, facing East of West, recites the Quranic verses off course, after reciting quranic verses, 2nd - Kneel-Prostrate, recites Praises to ALLAH than get up from Prostrate position to Kneeling Position, , thats the End of the Salat. If this what you understanding as rakaah, than there is only one!

My Dear Sir pl don't give telegraphic messages. can you elaborate and say what you want me to understand from those verses .I know you gave those verses as the answer to verse 2.13 .my question why and what i have to understand from this verses

You wrote below

And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know not.

So in nutshell , Quran ,salah ,zakat and hajj were all different from each other and were transmitted to us through the same media called traditional transmission and that nutshell is Islam i spend four years in studying quran and its tafsir and i spend one year in learning quranic grammar then i attended BAIS of IOU .my perception never changed .it was similar to you .take my word ,Wakas . i am ready to clean the deck of the ship in which you are the captain .so list the traditions which you think are correct

Believe as the people believe but in Quran verse 06112 - 116, it does not say that, in fact you have to follow the Quran and not be a blind follower. In verse 116, it specifically says

And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.

If you obey most of the people, they will mislead you from the way of ALLAH because most of the people are not believers of the Quran as stated in 12106

And most of them believe not in ALLAH except while they associate others with Him.

Bender

Walaikumsalam, Bender

Yes , i am ready for the change ,just prove me where i am wrong It was course ,unofficial ,conducted by a scholar of IRGC at IIS (Islamic international school .Chennai)
BTW ,for a ordinary Muslim , to understand Quran without tafsir is impossible .Any way ALLAH subhanavatala has given every body his own will to judge .

Salaam,

GREEN If you have decided for yourself that x=a then no one can prove you wrong.
RED The real quran is embedded in your heart and has no tafsirs.

imrankhawaja

RED The real quran is embedded in your heart and has no tafsirs

no doubt about it,, tafseer always make u confuse. and bender due to one of your post i changed my thinking regarding tafseer really it helps me a lot u remember when one time u was telling us about the event of david and the matter of test , trust me my mom told me this event which she definately learnt from tafseers but i always doubted about it they way you cleared it make me go through all the verses again and i understand ur judgement was right . it was not the matter of women it was the matter of something else most probably economic or controlling issue..or judgement without hearing other party argument and reasoning , Allah knows best but it cant be the matter of women how taafseer represent , same thing i tell to my mom and surprisingly she said yeh u r right , alhamdulliah my mom changed her previous thinking and she only rely on quran ,

parvez_mushtaq

Who is Sam Shamoun, author of the Quran? My dear brother, I am not a blind follower. I dont need those so called scholar to interprete the Quran for me. Btw, it is related, your post below

My question is if ALLAH preserve the Quran, why in 1591, HE the EXALTED says that those separators / sectarions, made the Quran into a form one cannot comprehand? Further, in 6304, confirms that the Prophet, were with those who spoke Ancient South Arabian dialect. The Musnad script mentioned in 6304 proves it all. That means, the Original Arabic version of the Quran was written in the Musnad script. But what we have now written in Modern Arabic script and the morphology is quite different compare to the ASA! Please see below link, it tells u the morphology of ASA.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfCo__kUowk

The San'a Codex found in Yemen dated in the 6th Century, written in Hijazi Script. The so called Arab prophet was born as recorded, in the 6th Century? In the 7th Century, the Arabic script evolved to Kuffic Script, this was the era of the Abbassiah. Their HQ was in Kuffah. That is where, the Kuffic script derived from.

If ALLAH preserve the Quran,

Why there are changes to the Script of the Original Arabic Version?
Where is the Bless Land, where the Baitullah is?
Was the Quran sent to only 1 geographical area and only in Arabic language?

If the words of Allah cannot be changed and yet, as the Quran itself admits, there were people that corrupted its text then this leaves us with the following options.

Allah is a deceiver since he had no intention of ever protecting his words or of making sure that no one would corrupt the Qurans text.

Allah is impotent and incompetent since he wanted to preserve his words but couldnt. Finite creatures were able to thwart Allahs purpose in preserving the Quran since they managed to change the text.

The Quran is not the word of Allah which is why he never bothered to preserve it exactly as Muhammad recited it, and didnt waste his time preventing individuals from changing it.

Now this is already bad enough, but if we add to this the Muslim claim that the Quran is eternal and did not merely come into being during Muhammads lifetime, then we have an additional problem. So far, the evidence for changes of the Quran contradicts the promise that nobody can change the words of Allah. Thus Allah was either unwilling or unable to uphold this promise. However, if the text of the Quran is eternal and existed (with Allah) before it was revealed to Muhammad, then not only was the promise that no one can change His Words (Q. 6115; 1827) contained in the eternal Quran and falsified by history, but also the passage Q. 1590-93 speaking about the dividers, those who made the Quran into shreds was likewise already contained in it before Muhammad was born. Thus, Allah from eternity contradicted himself by claiming both the corruption and the unchangeability of the Quran.

So much for the Quran being a perfectly preserved and consistent revelation.

These are taken from the link shown above
'now tell the difference between your claim and their claim
the claim is the same ,one we will not accept because they are kafir and the other will accept because they Muslim even though the claim is the same

it becomes my prime responsibility to answer you both and prove ALLAH subhanvatala kept his word up to date .i mean the verse 15.09
Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian.

i am not going to argue you about verse 15.90-91 rather inshaALLAH i will prove Verse 15.09 is correct than we will see about verse 15.90-91

now for the time being i will admit you and our friend christian friend of AI are correct
all the palimpsest (note that "all&quot are in contrast to the quran we have
can you present that another copy of that quran (i mean quran of sana). you can even talk to your christian friend .any copy from any century will be welcome and also can your bring the at least one follower who followed this quran .the answer is big NO .but we have millions copies of the quran as well as the followers of the quran that we have .So we had/having the same q one and only quran right through the ages .
i don't want to go into the technologies of corrupted qurans because i dont know about them as a matter of fact no one does .
this is the i believe in ayah Verse 2.03
Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,

hope i have solved and this preservation confirms the ayah 15.09 and i believe this was the quran reveled to pour prophet

now let me take your ayah 15.90-91
let me show the tafsir of ibnkatir as per him the word

(the Muqtasimin) refers to those who had made a pact to oppose, deny, and insult the Prophets. Similarly, Allah tells us about the people of Salih

(They said, "Swear to one another Taqasamu by Allah that we shall make a secret night attack on him and his household'&#039 2749 i.e., they plotted to kill him at night. Mujahid said "Taqasamu means they swore an oath.''

(And they swear by Allah with their strongest oaths, that Allah will not raise up one who dies)(163

((It will be said) "Did you not before swear that you would not leave (the world for the Hereafter)) (1444)

(Are they those, of whom you swore that Allah would never show them mercy)749 It is as if they took an oath for every single thing that they denied in this world, so they are called the Muqtasimin.

It his his opinion ,take it or leave it it is up to us but he seems to more logical than you as well our christian friend because he giving proofs .one more point i want to say about ibn katir is without computers or handy quran as we have now with us how he could have took those verses out from his memory .can you remember the verse 41.53
We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

And this what i call ALLAH subhanavatala not only preserved quran but also its application

the rest continues in the next post ..........

parvez_mushtaq

So, from what I read in your post above, there are more than 1 rakaah. Btw, the word rakaah is not compatible with the Quran! Nowhere in the Quran mentioned this word. Could you enlighten me please, i might have overlooked. However, reading the verse 04102, it shows clearly that the procedure of salat which is, 1st - Standing, facing East of West, recites the Quranic verses off course, after reciting quranic verses, 2nd - Kneel-Prostrate, recites Praises to ALLAH than get up from Prostrate position to Kneeling Position, , thats the End of the Salat. If this what you understanding as rakaah, than there is only one!

I am asking you second time ,hibz
what was our prophet doing as per this verse .just answer the underlined part
Verse 4.102
And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be behind you and have the other group come forward which has not prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Believe as the people believe but in Quran verse 06112 - 116, it does not say that, in fact you have to follow the Quran and not be a blind follower. In verse 116, it specifically says

bring me the entire context
read form the verse 6.111
And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead spoke to them and We gathered together every thing in front of them, they would not believe unless Allah should will. But most of them, , are ignorant.

were those people were Muslim like us are the verses 6.112-116 were addressed to Muslims or kafirs
i don't know how you judge .some times i feel like i am in ffi

Surah 6 Aya 116
And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah . They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.

so you have became a prophet .or you are claiming to the one .claim it because we yet have a prophet for this century.in previous century ,by now we had our Mr.Mirza Ghulam Ahmad unfortunately we are yet have one till now

'

parvez_mushtaq

Salaam,
GREEN If you have decided for yourself that x=a then no one can prove you wrong.

i dont know where i am wrong ,Bender
if i am trying to say x=a than each and every of those who were living for the past 1400 years had the same calculations

RED The real quran is embedded in your heart and has no tafsirs.

Yes ,you are correct here ,bender
because ,every time i hear the adaan ,the verse about salah bangs my head .every time i see the needy ,the same thing happen and even when is was in Hajj particlurly at mina ,the verse that kept on banging my head was
2.13
And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know not.

so i silently and piously performed all my arkans .believe me wearing iharam is not easy task .
but never in my wildest fantasies i ever thought that i will be talking about that verse here in FM
note that i joined your site much before but started writing only after few months

so to know about salah,zakah ,hajj etc i have to join with people who have a weird equation of x=a

parvez_mushtaq

no doubt about it,, tafseer always make u confuse. and bender due to one of your post i changed my thinking regarding tafseer really it helps me a lot u remember when one time u was telling us about the event of david and the matter of test , trust me my mom told me this event which she definately learnt from tafseers but i always doubted about it they way you cleared it make me go through all the verses again and i understand ur judgement was right . it was not the matter of women it was the matter of something else most probably economic or controlling issue..or judgement without hearing other party argument and reasoning , Allah knows best but it cant be the matter of women how taafseer represent , same thing i tell to my mom and surprisingly she said yeh u r right , alhamdulliah my mom changed her previous thinking and she only rely on quran ,

can you tell me about that verse ,imran
i agree with you , we cannot blindly agree all the tafsirs at the same time we cannot ignore them completely

Hizbullah