New proofs (?) prove that PUNISHMENT IN THE GRAVE is REAL

lostINtheWORLD

I'm against to say there is a new, overwhelming, proof for the punishment in the grave. However, I found new evidences support it. From this source http//www.myreligionislam.com/detail.asp?Aid=5844

Question Is the torment in the grave a reality?

ANSWER

Some evidence that establishes the occurrence of the torment in the grave is as follows

Hadrat Im?m-i A?zam stated

The Qur??n al-kar?m says, ?They are exposed to the fire morning and evening. On the day when Doomsday comes, it will be said, ?Make the dynasty of Pharaoh enter the severest torment!? http//quran.com/40/46

The torment they will undergo morning and evening is before the Resurrection. It is declared in the following part of the ?yah (Qur?anic verse) that they will be made to enter a severe torment. The former refers to the torment in the grave while the latter refers to the torment in Hell. (Al-Qawl-ul fasl)

Hadrat Im?m-i Ghaz?l? stated, ?This ?yat-i kar?ma demonstrates the torment in the grave? (Ihy?).

I think this opinion is logical. "They are exposed to the fire morning and evening" It can't be in this world, so it must be in the next. "On the day when Doomsday comes" So, we are talking about a punishment before the Doomsday; the only one possible is in the grave.

The 25th ?yat-i kar?ma of N?h S?ra purports, ?Because of their sins, they were drowned and then thrown into the fire.? The letter F in the word Faudkhil? that appears in the ?yat-i kar?ma (in the original text) stresses that there is no interval or pause at all. That is, it means, ?No sooner were they drowned than they were subjected to the torment of the grave? (Al-Qawl-ul fasl).

http//quran.com/71/25 WTF ? I do not read and understand Arabic, if there is Arabic speakers could they confirm it?

Also, the 169th ?yat-i kar?ma of ?l-i ?Imr?n S?ra, which purports, ?Do not think of those who are killed in the way of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive,? indicates the life in the grave. (Al-Qawl-ul fasl) http//quran.com/3/169

I find this very logical. These martyrs are alive in another dimension , and they enjoy the pleasures of the grave.

Next the author make a list of Hadiths supporting the punishment in the grave, which I skip as Hadith rejector.

Is it summary execution?

Question Some people say, ?There is no torment before the Resurrection. It would be summary execution to subject a person to torment in the grave before sins and rewards are determined and before offences are brought to light. It is like smiting a person in the police station before he or she appears in court. This, in turn, is incompatible with Divine justice.? Is the torment in the grave not true?

ANSWER

To utter such remarks means having no knowledge of the religion whatsoever, for Allahu ta??l? certainly knows who committed what offence and who will go to Paradise and who will go to Hell. In fact, He had known these even before humans were born. The Angels of Haphaza are determining the good and evil deeds of humans. Who committed what sins are known, so there is no summary execution in the grave. People are exposed to torment as a retribution for their sins. The sins of a Believer who suffers the torment in the grave will decrease, and he or she may go to the Place of Reckoning without any sins.

The Mu?tazila sect, who accepted the mind as a gauge, denied the life and the torment in the grave. Ahl as-Sunnat scholars, on the other hand, substantiated the authenticity of the torment in the grave with evidence.

More proofs

"And if you could but see when the angels take the souls of those who disbelieved... They are striking their faces and their backs and , "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire" http//quran.com/8/50

And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allah or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal like what Allah revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands, , "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of humiliation for what you used to say against Allah other than the truth and you were, toward His verses, being arrogant." http//quran.com/6/93

"Then , We would have made you taste double life and double death. Then you would not find for yourself against Us a helper" http//quran.com/17/75

"And indeed, for those who have wronged is a punishment before that, but most of them do not know" http//quran.com/52/46 It means before the Judgement Day

Man_of_Faith

Cannot you take that from an empirical and logical viewpoint instead?

A corpse, a dead body, has had their spirit leave it and thus how can a tormenting occur in it?

Any alleged tormenting does at least not occur in the physical grave with the corpse of the deceased person but would in that case happen to the Spirit of the person itself and that not in conjunction with the spiritless body.

In addition, there is thus not any "physical" fire but more like a force over them.

Be well
Amenuel

lostINtheWORLD

Cannot you take that from an empirical and logical viewpoint instead?

A corpse, a dead body, has had their spirit leave it and thus how can a tormenting occur in it?

Any alleged tormenting does at least not occur in the physical grave with the corpse of the deceased person but would in that case happen to the Spirit of the person itself and that not in conjunction with the spiritless body.

In addition, there is thus not any "physical" fire but more like a force over them.

Be well
Amenuel

As-salam aleikum;

I'm not speaking about the grave as the place in which rests the dead body.

This is a poor translation of "grave".

What i'm talking about is "barzakh", and this is the "grave" a dimension between this world and the Hereafter.

There, the punishment can exist. Thus, after the death there are a really punishment before that will occurr in the Jugdment Day.

hanslan

At death, body separates from soul.
Body decays, the soul goes somewhere.
At judgment day, soul will be given new bodies.

The 3 points suggest
a. there is no point in punishing a decaying body.
b. there is no point physically punishing the soul given that it has no 'body' until judgment day.
c. punishment of the soul before judgment day can be just a really bad nightmare of hell? until the actual judgment day?

huruf

The thing is that I have not yet seen quoted any part of he Qur'an which states such punishment as a particular punishment but we do get the surprise of he awakening uonn yawm al qiyaama.

Salaam

lostINtheWORLD

At death, body separates from soul.
Body decays, the soul goes somewhere.
At judgment day, soul will be given new bodies.

The 3 points suggest
a. there is no point in punishing a decaying body. --> You are right. The punishment that will occurr in the barzakh will affect only the soul, not the body.
b. there is no point physically punishing the soul given that it has no 'body' until judgment day. --> I disagree the barzakh is governed by different physical laws due the fact this is another dimension; thus, the soul can be affected by a severe punishment.
c. punishment of the soul before judgment day can be just a really bad nightmare of hell? until the actual judgment day? --> Maybe, but the terror will be so strong this will seems more than just a "nightmare" a really torture !

lostINtheWORLD

The thing is that I have not yet seen quoted any part of he Qur'an which states such punishment as a particular punishment but we do get the surprise of he awakening uonn yawm al qiyaama.

Salaam

As-salaam aleikum;

Well, I think I have posted so many verses indicates a punishment after the death and before the Judgement Day...

good_logic

Peace lost INtheWORLD.

As I have already posted before,I believe Qoran does not support punishment in the grave idea!!!
Have a look at the following

We learn that death is exactly like sleeping; complete with dreams (660, 4046). The period between death and resurrection passes like one night of sleep (2259; 660; 1045; 1621; 1811, 1819, 1825; 3055).

At the moment of death, everyone knows his or her destiny; Heaven or Hell.
For the disbelievers, death is a horrible event; the angels beat them on the faces and rear ends as they snatch away their souls (850, 4727, 791).

Consistently, the Qoran talks about two deaths, the first death took place when we failed to make a stand with God's absolute authority (Appendix 7). That first death lasted until we were born into this world. The second death terminates our life in this world (228, 2266, 4011).
THE RIGHTEOUS DO NOT DIE; when their lives on this earth come to the predetermined end, the angel of death simply invites them to leave their earthly bodies and move on to Heaven.
Heaven has been in existence since Adam and Eve. Hell does not exist yet

We learn from 8927-30 that God invites the believers' souls "Enter My Paradise."

Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of God, "They are dead." They are alive at their Lord, but you do not perceive.

O you who believe, you shall respond to God and to the messenger when he invites you to what gives you life.* You should know that God is closer to you than your heart, and that before Him you will be summoned.

Those who emigrate for the sake of God, then get killed, or die, God will surely shower them with good provisions. God is certainly the best Provider.

They do not taste death therein - beyond the first death - and He has spared them the retribution of Hell.

(At the time of his death) he was told, "Enter Paradise." He said, "Oh, I wish my people knew.

As for the disbelievers, they know at the moment of death that they are destined for Hell. The angels beat them up on the faces and rear ends (850 & 4727), order them to evict their souls (693), then "snatch their souls" (791).

The Qoran teaches that the disbelievers go through 2 deaths (228 & 4011). They will be put to death - a state of nothingness during which they see Hell day and night in a continuous nightmare that lasts until the Day of Judgment (4046). Hell is not yet in existence (4046, 8923).

As far as people are concerned, the righteous "die." People do not realize that the righteous simply leave their bodies, and move on to
Paradise. The verses shown above are self explanatory. They tell us that the righteous die only once - the one death we have already experienced as a consequence of the great feud (3869).

Of course Qoran advises everyone to check all information.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

lostINtheWORLD

Peace lost INtheWORLD.

As I have already posted before,I believe Qoran does not support punishment in the grave idea!!!
Have a look at the following

As I posted in The Quran Message Forum, I brought evidences who support the punishment in the Barzakh. Yourself, in this response, confirm it.

We learn that death is exactly like sleeping; complete with dreams (660, 4046). The period between death and resurrection passes like one night of sleep (2259; 660; 1045; 1621; 1811, 1819, 1825; 3055). ---> The fact that "The period between death and resurrection passes like one night of sleep" can be understandood differently, because as Barzakh is situed in a parallel dimension, the laws that govern it are different from this world. So a "night of sleep" can be in the Barzakh, for example, who know? as 15000 worldy years !

At the moment of death, everyone knows his or her destiny; Heaven or Hell.
For the disbelievers, death is a horrible event; the angels beat them on the faces and rear ends as they snatch away their souls (850, 4727, 791).

Consistently, the Qoran talks about two deaths, the first death took place when we failed to make a stand with God's absolute authority (Appendix 7). That first death lasted until we were born into this world. The second death terminates our life in this world (228, 2266, 4011).

THE RIGHTEOUS DO NOT DIE; when their lives on this earth come to the predetermined end, the angel of death simply invites them to leave their earthly bodies and move on to Heaven. Heaven has been in existence since Adam and Eve. Hell does not exist yet. ---> Here you make two mistakes.

The first is that everyone, believer or disbeliever, will enter directly after his death into Barzakh. So the righteous wouldn't enter directly in the Heaven as you claim. Because the righteous will be enter in Paradise after the Judgment Day.

The second is that you claim that "disbelievers will be put to death ? a state of nothingness during which they see Hell day and night in a continuous nightmare that lasts until the Day of Judgment". But how they will see Hell if it is not created yet?

We learn from 8927-30 that God invites the believers' souls "Enter My Paradise."

Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of God, "They are dead." They are alive at their Lord, but you do not perceive.

O you who believe, you shall respond to God and to the messenger when he invites you to what gives you life.* You should know that God is closer to you than your heart, and that before Him you will be summoned.

Those who emigrate for the sake of God, then get killed, or die, God will surely shower them with good provisions. God is certainly the best Provider.

They do not taste death therein - beyond the first death - and He has spared them the retribution of Hell.

(At the time of his death) he was told, "Enter Paradise." He said, "Oh, I wish my people knew.

As for the disbelievers, they know at the moment of death that they are destined for Hell. The angels beat them up on the faces and rear ends (850 & 4727), order them to evict their souls (693), then "snatch their souls" (791).

The Qoran teaches that the disbelievers go through 2 deaths (228 & 4011). They will be put to death - a state of nothingness during which they see Hell day and night in a continuous nightmare that lasts until the Day of Judgment (4046). Hell is not yet in existence (4046, 8923). ---> As I told before, of course the Hell is already existing, how they will see a thing that is not created yet? It is a non-sense. However, even if you are right, although is not the case, this "nightmare" can be the alleged punishment in the grave. Thus, the disbelievers will experience, after all, a punishment, in form of nightmare, if you are true.

As far as people are concerned, the righteous "die." People do not realize that the righteous simply leave their bodies, and move on to Paradise. The verses shown above are self explanatory. They tell us that the righteous die only once - the one death we have already experienced as a consequence of the great feud (3869).

Of course Qoran advises everyone to check all information.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

good_logic

Peace lostINtheWORLD..

I see "Barzakh as "once a person is dead ,there is no coming back to this life.". It is not a place!

Anyway I have given my take on "punishment in the grave". As far as Qoran is concerned there is no such a thing.

The proof you claim to exist is a misunderstanding of verses that never mention "punishment in the grave".

Also punishment is reserved after judgement day.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

lostINtheWORLD

Peace lostINtheWORLD..

I see "Barzakh as "once a person is dead ,there is no coming back to this life.". It is not a place!

Anyway I have given my take on "punishment in the grave". As far as Qoran is concerned there is no such a thing.

The proof you claim to exist is a misunderstanding of verses that never mention "punishment in the grave".

Also punishment is reserved after judgement day.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

You makes serious mistakes, like the Hell doesn't exist yet, etc.

good_logic

Peace lostINtheWORLD.
Hell is not created yet. It will be created on the Day of Judgment (6917 & 8923)

Your Lord dominion will be eight universes. Only seven exist now.Hell will be the eight.

There you go ,hell will be brought forth on that day.

Am I making a serious mistake,or is Qoran making a serious claim?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

the state of disbeleivers is like a court in which punishment is due but delayed so its a azab for him untill the day of punishment , a afraid, tenshen, depression, fear, hopefulness , as he already know what gonna happen with him, same a criminal is waiting for thee date of his "phansi" electric chair, or hanging him with rope

its not azab untill date come , azab/punishment started when he sit on that chair/hang till death.

same like grave , disbeleivers will have a sleep but not a sweet sleep that we have in our bedroom, the sleep is like we are sleeping in a cell/jail/qabar/grave whatever u interpret,

thats what the meanings of these verses people refer it to grave punishment its basically nighmare more than azab

the day of judgement is not established yet,

lostINtheWORLD

the state of disbeleivers is like a court in which punishment is due but delayed so its a azab for him untill the day of punishment , a afraid, tenshen, depression, fear, hopefulness , as he already know what gonna happen with him, same a criminal is waiting for thee date of his "phansi" electric chair, or hanging him with rope

According to your logic, I'm already being in the barzakh...

imrankhawaja

According to your logic, I'm already being in the barzakh...

its not according to me , who i am nothing more than a slave to my master ,

but if you feel ,afraid all the time about punishment and you already know you will be punished if not follow the master , then its you who make your life hell , its your character/thinking is responsible

make urself in heaven accept whatever Allah say then you will be relaxed atleast , in this life and herefafer is definate.

you are asking a question or situation a thief attempts to robbery , and thinking he will not get caught , if he is lucky he wont get catch by police or law but , there is one ultimate law , that will punish him , in this life he always afraid , anytime police can catch him , he is tensed, depressed afraid ,

but if he listen the law at first place he should not go for robbery,

mmkhan

Peace,

Bodies of kafirs will be eaten by earth after burial that is what called as azaab alqabr!?!
Even then they are not going to feel the punishment as they don't have any senses.

lostINtheWORLD

Peace,

Bodies of kafirs will be eaten by earth after burial that is what called as azaab alqabr!?!
Even then they are not going to feel the punishment as they don't have any senses.

What is your source to pretend that they have any sense? Maybe physically, but not spiritually.

Thus, the soul will be suffer.

lostINtheWORLD