Do you have an explanation for this? Poll

parvez_mushtaq

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pm,
You make the same claim Muhammad Asad does regarding what verses talk about what qiblah change - i.e. he reverses the order. See my article

note that Mohammed asad did not mention any thing regarding verse 143 and 147 .at least he did not mention the things which i mention
even your article seems to be inspired by the logic of Mohammad asad
see the foot note number 123 of the verse 2.148 (click)

let me highlight your logic first ,Wakas

Clearly the traditional position has issues, thus is there an alternative understanding that fits better? Before some options are discussed, it should be mentioned Muhammad Asad has a slightly different take on these verses, as he does not regard the prophet as being commanded to face Jerusalem, then later commanded otherwise (see his translation and notes on quranix.net). He does not believe in abrogation (see here). Unusually, he says the "great test" in 2143 was restoring the "prayer direction" from Jerusalem to the cuboid called Kaabah NOT from the cuboid to Jerusalem as is commonly interpreted. Traditional Islamic history tells us that the Arabs revered the cuboid and Muhammad and the believers faced it whilst in Mecca, thus one would think it would have been harder to face away from it, than return to it. Furthermore, his view would imply that the messenger was "pleased" for the believers to undergo a "great test" - which I consider unlikely. Lastly, the flow of the verses does not seem to fit his take on it. He seems to hold this understanding as a consequence of rejecting abrogation.

If facing the cuboid called "Kaabah" pleased the messenger, as implied in 2144, then it should be noted it was full of idols at the time, as even accepted in traditional sources. They allege that since it was the first house dedicated to worship, built by Abraham, this was more important than the fact it was filled with idols and a pagan symbol, hence "pleased
IF the Jerusalem qiblah was appointed by God, then this indirectly implies the messenger was dissatisfied with such a qiblah when 2144 says "...We see thy face/consideration shifting in the sky..." and "...that will please thee...", i.e. was the messenger dissatisfied with a command from God?

your contention is
1.whether the previous qiblah was commaned by the GOD
2.the change in qiblah pleased the prophet Mohammed sallaahu alai wasallam
3.Mohammed sallahu alaiwa sallam was pleased for the believers to under go this test

so this was your logic
you cannot expect anyone to accept your logic but at the same time he can answer your logic and that is what i did

Work through the rest, see what happens.

pl quote me which part of your 20 point i left unanswered with this answer

as Kabah was full of idols and every Muslim during that time believed that Islam was the abrogated version of Judaism and Christianity and obviously no one will have any problem in facing the qiblah of Jews .
as ALLAH subhanavatala says in verse 2.144(....We have certainly seen the turning of your face, , toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased.... ),It was the the wish of our prophet Mohammaed salla hu aliwa sallam that kiblah to be changed to Kabah ,of course which was full of idols

ALLAH subhanavatala seems to be convincing the believers in the verses 143(..... And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful.) and in the verse 2.147(The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.) and not to worry about the idols

Now as you said .....

Quote

Further, "to God is the east and the west" in 2142 implies God encompasses all things, and the use of "God is Able/Powerful" in 2148 seems to restate this theme, i.e. this change is perhaps part of a bigger plan, and only the foolish will not understand this. This is reinforced with "God will bring you (all) together" and "that I may complete My favour upon you". Note, "God will bring you all together" which implies many/all believers coming together, and it is not something easy/ordinary, as it says "God is Able/Powerful" implying something a little out of the ordinary. Whatever this new change in qiblah is, i.e. AMAH, should be able to accomplish this.

This might be a prophecy given to the believers so that they might not worry about the idols in kabah and ALLAH subhanvatala will never make there deeds to get wasted and he will complete his favour

this is purely a logical explanation where i have used your logic to prove that Qiblah is the direction to be faced towards Kabah

after re-reading you article , i came to the conclusion that your focal-point theory is empty and does not have focal point
you able to list more than 20 points in addressing the problems of traditional Qiblah but you have not listed a SINGLE point to fill your focal-point .you should be well balanced ,Wakas .You should at least give 20 more points to prove that your view point is more reliable

Which verses?

the verse from 2.143 to 2.145
i don't want the translation ,wakas .think that you are explaining a lay man in foot note explanation of your focal point .in other words fill your empty focal point based on quran in the above verses

Wakas

Mazhar, all I can see is your claim that it's all about the past, but those links about grammar say otherwise. They didn't mention an exception to the rule as you seem to claim. Find me an explicit statement about this exception, and provide Quran examples. All this I asked for a while ago.

pm,
You left plenty of the list unanswered. If you're so confident you answered them, simply create your own thread in response to my article and respond to all the points raised in the article.
Perhaps I will make a simplified summarised article in the future to make it easier for people to check their understanding, similar to what I did with sujud, although that didn't seem to help much as most just run away from answering.

And lastly you are asking me to explain my understanding of 2143-145 and the new focal-point, when the Quran answers it clearly it is "al masjid al haram" / the inviolable time of acknowledgement, which I explain in the article.

Mazhar

Mazhar, all I can see is your claim that it's all about the past, but those links about grammar say otherwise. They didn't mention an exception to the rule as you seem to claim. Find me an explicit statement about this exception, and provide Quran examples. All this I asked for a while ago.

Have you heard something like this

In Arabic, "masdar" is the verbal noun/infinitive/noun of action (noun formed from a verb taking it's action only and leaving it's tense and subject (faa'il)).

Infinitive and gerund verbal nouns in Arabic are + .

Lam of Ta'leel is prefixed to the present tense verb to indicate that the verb clarifies the reason that a particular action, mentioned before it, was performed.

And this form ( + &#1576 is called .

Hizbullah

Wakas jedi

Thanks for demonstrating you have no verse which shows Moses was sent to AAlameena, unlike messenger of Quran ;D
Let's examine your claim about 34 as the "biggest prove"
He sent down to you the book with truth, authenticating what is present with it; and He sent down the Torah and the Injeel.
From before as a guidance for the people, and He sent down the Criterion. Those who rejected the revelations of God.....

Pay close attention to the "and". The part in blue obviously refers to the torah/injeel. So your claim may or may not be correct. However I find it telling you consider this your "biggest prove" as it seems like grasping at straws.

But dont take my word for it - ask any long term forum member here, see if they conclude what you conclude.

I should also point out that you put Muhammad in brackets (since its not in the Arabic) and it says kitab not quran.

The ?AlKitab? is referring to the Quran considering the fact that the Quran confirms what is between, support it of the Book that is the Furqan and the sections which is within it! Please check 0291; 0548; 09111; 1037; 12111; 3431; 3531; 4629-30.

So, if I follow your logic, it will be something like below?

We sent down to you the book with truth, confirming what is between, support it; and I sent down the Tawrat and the Injeel from before as guidance for Mankind?

and I sent down the Furqan.

The Tawrat and Injeel, from the Quranic perspective were NEVER as guidance to MANKIND as a whole but to a certain extent. The Quran confirms that the Tawrat was a Section of the Book that was given to the Jews and Israelites nations during the ministry of Prophet Dawood and Sulaiman. Probably during the era of Sulaiman, Prophet Esa ibn Maryam came along and the Injeel was sent to him thru his mother for the Israelite nation ONLY. Further, to elucidate my point, the Quran 0548

And We have revealed to you, the Book in truth, confirming that is between, support it of the Book and as enforcer over it. So judge between them by what ALLAH has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you ALL We prescribed a law and a method??

The law and method had already been prescribed by the LORD to Mankind. So from what you wrote, it is incorrect that the Tawrat and Injeel was sent to mankind as whole. The Furqan was sent to mankind.

However, you are right, when I read again the Quran 2501 and 3223, it is correct to say that the Last Prophet received the Furqan but with some substitution, cross referencing 16101

And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse - and ALLAH is most knowing of what HE sends down - they say, "You, are but an inventor." But most of them do not know.

Also please refer to 06155; 1037 and 1689, the Furqan and Quran are both Books of explanation! From my understanding, the Last Prophet received the Furqan with some substitution. This second Furqan is the Quran, cross referencing 1587

And We have certainly given you, seven / several of the second one and the Great Qur'an.