Who was the first Muslim?

mmkhan

Hi,

Of course you can, but I will save you some time.
Here is a site with thousands of contradictions of the quran including your fundamental contradiction in your OP.
Click and Click

Peace,

Hahaaa... funny links. Thanks!

Recluse

No-one is born a "polytheist".

Re eternal hell
Research http//quranix.org/appendix/qrt/8

People are definitely born into an existing culture and religion. It's sad that I have to explain this again; why are most people in Korea, Japan or China not "monotheists"? Answer; Because they were born into another culture/religion, that's the only reason....

Why are "Saudis / Arabs" Muslim? If those same Arab "Muslims" had been born in Thailand, they too would have gone to an eternal Hell as polytheists. Now, of course I don't believe that (maybe you don't really believe it either), but that is what the Qur'an seems to imply.

Recluse

Hi,

Of course you can, but I will save you some time.
Here is a site with thousands of contradictions of the quran including your fundamental contradiction in your OP.
Click and Click

Anyone who studies the Qur'an can clearly see many immoral and primitve medieval teachings in the Qur'an, this is not even debatable!

More importantly, according to the Qur'an, billions of "polytheists" will go to an eternal Hellfire....

If you can't see how incredibly irrational, unjust and unacceptable such a belief system is, then I have nothing further to say. Feel free to believe that billions of polytheists, i.e. Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Hindus and others are condemned to an eternal Hell by the Merciful God... rotfl rotfl rotfl

If that makes sense to you, then we have a very very different idea about what logic, justice and fairness is...

Peace.

mmkhan

Even more importantly, according to the Qur'an, billions of "polytheists" will go to an eternal Hellfire

Peace,

Well you made a very big claim bro.
I am interested in knowing those aayaat which gives you info about what you claimed.
Please quote the aayaats. Thanks.

Recluse

Have you ever read the Qur'an? Look it up please, I'm sure you can find those verses yourself...

Islam is the only accceptable religion No other religion will be accepted by the merciful God.

And polytheists/mushriks will never be forgiven by the Merciful God. All of this is in the Qur'an

Are you claiming that the Qur'an doesn't say all this?

If that is the case, then you believe in a book that you haven't read.... or maybe you've read it only once and forgot.

mmkhan

Have you ever read the Qur'an? Look it up please, I'm sure you can find those verses yourself...

Islam is the only accceptable religion No other religion will be accepted by the merciful God

And polytheists will never be forgiven. All of this is in the Qur'an

You probably believe in a book that you haven't read properly....

Peace,

This is not the answer to my question bro.
It is strange that you dont know the aayaat to quote and you are making such a big claim? &
No, I don't find aayaat regarding what you said.
If you know please quote them if you cannot then repentance is the best option.

Recluse

Just wondering; Have you ever read the Qur'an bro?

Please be honest because it most certainly doesn't seem so...

I will find them for you, but I will do this only once. I'm not going to quote any more verses after that.. I don't like playing that silly game.

Here you go;

"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." &

And there are many many verses saying that muhsriks/polytheists, i.e. those who "ascribe partners to Him" will never be forgiven. I hope you already know of those verses? -\ Or do I have to find one of those too? It's not hard you know, even you could find them in seconds, I'm sure!

And I'm not going to repeat myself anymore. Only if I see sincerity, I will reply.. haven't seen much of that until now!

Peace.

mmkhan

Just wondering; Have you ever read the Qur'an bro?

Please be honest because it most certainly doesn't seem so...

I will find them for you, but I will do this only once. I'm not going to quote any more verses after that.. I don't like playing that silly game.

Here you go;

Ali Imran 85;

"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."

Peace and thanks,

I came to know that you dont know anything about alQuraanic Arabic.
There is no mention of the word 'religion' in this aayat.

Deen = System.

And the word Islam cannot be translated as Islam.
Islam means Peace.

If you are referring to the judgement day when you said 'hereafter' you are wrong again.
Please refer to this article about the meaning of alAakhirat.

Now I think no further clarification is needed. You can translate the aayat on your own now and understand it.

And there are many verses saying that muhsriks/polytheists, i.e. those who "ascribe partners to Him" will never be forgiven. I hope you already know of those verses? Or do I have to find one of those too? It's not hard you know....

You wrote

muhsriks/polytheists

Will never be forgiven
will go to an eternal Hellfire....

You also said
God will burn billions of Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Shintoists and others in an eternal Hell?

billions of Buddhists, Hindus and others are condemned to Hellfire.

And you also believe that if someone born in Thailand becomes a polytheist by default.

Please choose the single correct point from above that you want to discuss. Thanks.

Will you apologize and repent now?

Peace.

I always do to my Sustainer.

Peace.

good_logic

Peace Recluse.

I say to you "any religion" and you skip past it like you did not read it and claim that "chineese. Japoneese.,Hindus...etc are not included.

Your argument is based on misunderstanding of what "Islam" is.

May be I shall put it to you this way

Jew "Muslim", Hindu Muslim, Christian Muslim, Moslim Muslim, Japaneese Muslim, Atheist Muslim...etc Anybody/Anyreligion Muslim...(And Yes there could also be an Atheist Muslim under certain conditions). All these Muslims are defined in that verse I quoted you!!!!

I can see now,having read your posts, why you have given up with Qoran. I hope you reconsider brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Man_of_Faith

Recluse,

People are definitely born into an existing culture and religion. It's sad that I have to explain this again; why are most people in Korea, Japan or China not "monotheists"? Answer; Because they were born into another culture/religion, that's the only reason....

Why are "Saudis / Arabs" Muslim? If those same Arab "Muslims" had been born in Thailand, they too would have gone to an eternal Hell as polytheists. Now, of course I don't believe that (maybe you don't really believe it either), but that is what the Qur'an seems to imply.

Actually humans are born heavy polytheists (idolators) and what they idolize the most is their own body, or rather they associate themselves with it.

But joke apart, things do not have to do with deism at all and whether it is monotheism or polytheism but about what you make of yourself and what you associate yourself with. The only negative association is to associate oneself with this contradicting world rather than your identity in Rabb which is both singular and plural at the same time including us making different forms of deism redundant to discuss.

Be well
Amenuel

Bender

Anyone who studies the Qur'an can clearly see many immoral and primitve medieval teachings in the Qur'an, this is not even debatable!

What is immoral with having a couple of teenage girls as wives?
And what is primitive about saluting every time a mosque when I enter it?

More importantly, according to the Qur'an, billions of "polytheists" will go to an eternal Hellfire....

But eternal hell fire should be their destiny.

If you can't see how incredibly irrational, unjust and unacceptable such a belief system is, then I have nothing further to say. Feel free to believe that billions of polytheists, i.e. Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Hindus and others are condemned to an eternal Hell by the Merciful God... rotfl rotfl rotfl

RED You have at least to agree with me on the Japanese people, those are by far the worst creatures here on earth, they deserve much much more then eternal hell fire.
But unfortunately God is Merciful, so they will go only to hell fire >
But I should not complain as I can watch them burn from my sofa while chilling with my 72 beautiful big eyed virgins yay

If that makes sense to you, then we have a very very different idea about what logic, justice and fairness is...

Peace.

If you do not hate Japanese people then there is indeed nothing to discuss with me.

peace

imrankhawaja

RED You have at least to agree with me on the Japanese people, those are by far the worst creatures here on earth, they deserve much much more then eternal hell fire.
peace

example of hiro sheema and nagasaki the only event happened that recorded deaths , becoz japanese and german (nazi) was about to kill and rule the whole world . so atom bomb was the only option but after that there is a ban that nobody will use atom bomb it includes the killing of civilians which have no link with army political issues , but again , it happened once with russia when russia plan to destroy world but get destroyed instead , now in pieces due to cold war , but again in the end its all depend on Allah who will gona die when,and how this world will get destroyed.

peace,

good_logic

Peace Bender.

I tell you brother,I rather go to eternal hell than have 72 beautiful eyed virgins.

Relaxing with them, you must be joking. How can you relax?

I cannot relax now with only one! By the way we say the same about each other!!!

If you want you can have my other 71 as well. How does 143 of them sound to you?

I am amazed at how Soloman managed according to that story of his in that other book?

Anyway brother, best of luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Novice

Salam Novice,

Alright, let's do that; how many muslims ('m' with a small letter) are there in countries like Japan or South Korea. Are there just as many as in Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Pakistan? Why do we call Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Pakistan "Muslim countries"? Why not call Japan a Muslim country?

Salaam Recluse

I dont know because for me muslim is not a title. May be there are more muslim in countries like Japan or Korea than in so called Muslim countries. May be that is the reason why people from Muslim countries are settling in non Muslim countries. May be they find soundness, peace and security in non Muslim countries. But of course sectarian Muslims will not agree with real meaning of a muslim and will stick to their sectarian definition.

huruf

Peace Bender.

I tell you brother,I rather go to eternal hell than have 72 beautiful eyed virgins.

Relaxing with them, you must be joking. How can you relax?

I cannot relax now with only one! By the way we say the same about each other!!!

If you want you can have my other 71 as well. How does 143 of them sound to you?

I am amazed at how Soloman managed according to that story of his in that other book?

Anyway brother, best of luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

wouldn't bethis pparadie or hell like the french saying

l'amour c'est comme un aubrge espagnol,on y mange ce que l'on aporte.

Love is like a Spanish inn, you eat there what you yourself bring with you.

If you bring hellwithyou you will eat hell, if you bring paradie with you, that i what you will eat. It is a condition of the person, I think that is why tbe Qur'an says "a fire whose fuel is men and stones". 2.24.

Salaam

Noon_waalqalami

There are contradictions in the Qur'an as to who was the "first Muslim".

According to Al-An'am 163, the first Muslim was prophet Muhammad.

According to Al-A'raf 143, the first Muslim was prophet Moses.

According to Ali Imran 67, the first Muslim was Abraham

Second problem;

What about Adam, Noah, Idris who lived in much earlier times, weren't they also Muslims?

Here are the three relevant verses;

"No partner has He. And this I have been commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims."

(According to this verse prophet Muhammed was the first Muslim)

"And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me that I may look at You." said, "You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."

(According to this verse prophet Moses was the first Muslim)

"Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim . And he was not of the polytheists.

(According to this verse Abraham was the first Muslim)

Peace Recluse,

Really need to investigate more thoroughly (per 1736) before propagating missionary or hearsay sloppiness.

Taken from very old Qur'an radiocarbon analysis parchment written between ~568 - 645 CE at 95% accuracy.

http//oi66.tinypic.com/15cfu55.jpg

first

coming before all others in time or order; earliest
"she was his first born"
synonyms earliest, initial, opening, introductory
foremost in position, rank, or importance.
"the first duty of a believer is to investigate everything thoroughly"
synonyms foremost, principal, highest, greatest, paramount

When one says they are commanded in this context means to be foremost (e.g. to be first born etc., e.i. definition (1) is not by choice/command).

6163 no partners for him and in such commanded I and surely I awwalu/foremost al-mus'limna/the acquiescent

7143 ... and surely I awwalu/foremost al-mu'minna/the believers

367 not was abraham yahdiyyan/jew of and not nasraniyyan/christian of and however was upright mus'liman/acquiescent of and not was from the idolaters

Salaam Recluse

I dont know because for me muslim is not a title. May be there are more muslim in countries like Japan or Korea than in so called Muslim countries. May be that is the reason why people from Muslim countries are settling in non Muslim countries. May be they find soundness, peace and security in non Muslim countries. But of course sectarian Muslims will not agree with real meaning of a muslim and will stick to their sectarian definition.

Peace Novice, since this is an English forum and Arabic words are bandied untranslated -- how are their cows docile/peaceful or resistant?

271 said surely he says surely it (f.) cow not trained to raise the land and not to irrigate the harvest musallamatun/docile (f.) not blemish in it (f.) said they henceforth thou came with the truth so sacrifice they it and not near they of were doing

Man_of_Faith

The "cows" are sound, pristine (without blemish) and not sickly, weak or old.

Jafar

Peace Bender.

I tell you brother,I rather go to eternal hell than have 72 beautiful eyed virgins.

Relaxing with them, you must be joking. How can you relax?

I cannot relax now with only one! By the way we say the same about each other!!!
If you want you can have my other 71 as well. How does 143 of them sound to you?

rotfl rotfl rotfl

Oh Em Gee... you are sooo.. uncool... Duckface

I am amazed at how Soloman managed according to that story of his in that other book?
Anyway brother, best of luck to you.

Definitely.. he need it...

Seriously now.. 72 virgins dogma was invented to attract a specific group of people.
Male - Adolescent to early 20s.

Those type of people are required to be a "cannon fodder" in a war.

They will stand as front liner on the battlefield and their survivability rate is very low, the majority of them shall die on their first battle, regardless who will win the battle. Without the (fake) promise of having an orgy with 72 virgins after they die, nobody will ever want to took such position.

Man_of_Faith

Jafar is likely right with a high probability, the 72 virgins was invented to make people want to become martyrs. Not would it be from a being with a higher level of consciousness. Very primitive idea it is.

Although I suppose so-called Quranists are too developed to swallow that delusion at least.

Be well
Amenuel

Jafar

Jafar is likely right with a high probability, the 72 virgins was invented to make people want to become martyrs. Not would it be from a being with a higher level of consciousness. Very primitive idea it is.

Although I suppose so-called Quranists are too developed to swallow that delusion at least.

Be well
Amenuel

Primitive... but very effective.. as the dogma was targeted towards young male..

The other group female, children might not find the 72 virgins as appealing...
But those group is not the targeted group to become 'cannon fodder' in a war..

Children!! when you go to heaven you will have 72 Nannies!!!
Girls!! when you go to heaven you will have 72 of other girls!!! All of them are gorgeous! More gorgeous than you!!
Isn't it great???