Who was the first Muslim?

good_logic

Peace Recluse.
Yes I agree with Qoran.

Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts ( Any religion...); anyone who (1) believes in God, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

i.e they are all "Muslims".
"Islam is a spiritual state of mind and not a title of a religion that belongs to a specific group of people. ANYONE who submits and serves the one God without idolizing other entities is a "Muslim".

This state of mind basically conforms with God?s one and only message He delivered to man-kind through all of His messengers since man existed; serve/worship God alone and avoid idolatry.
Based on that, one can safely conclude that the message of Islam has been in existence way before the time of prophet Muhammad and way before Qoran.
All God?s messengers, since the first prophet/messenger, devoted their lives service and worship to God alone and were" Muslimeen"to Him alone.
Here are some verses clarifying this understanding
We did not send any messenger before you except with the inspiration "There is no god except Me; you shall serve/worship Me alone."

We have sent a messenger to every community, saying, "You shall serve/worship God, and avoid idolatry....."

Recite for them the history of Noah. He said to his people, "O my people, if you find my position and my reminding you of God's revelations too much for you, then I put my trust in God. You should get together with your leaders, agree on a final decision among yourselves, then let me know it without delay.
"If you turn away, then I have not asked you for any wage. My wage comes from God. I have been commanded to be a Muslim."

Had you witnessed Jacob on his death bed; he said to his children, "What will you serve/ worship after I die?" They said, "We will serve/worship your god; the god of your fathers Abraham, Ismail, and Isaac; the one GOD. To Him we are Muslimeen."

When Jesus sensed their disbelief, he said, "Who are my supporters towards God?" The disciples said, "We are God's supporters; we believe in God, and bear witness that we are Muslimeen."

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Wakas

Peace,

Do you agree with the Qur'an that Islam is the only religion that God will accept (319), and that all non-Muslims will go to an eternal Hell?

So bilions of Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Thai, Cambodians and other "non-Muslims" go to an eternal Hell?

How do you account for this absurd threat in the Qur'an by the "Merciful God" ?

Who or what is a muslim?

This is the most fundamental question we should ask ourselves, the number one issue by far. Of course, I could also give you numerous verses about numerous issues that are inconsistent and incompatible.

Seems like your "number one issue" is not based on Quran
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muslim-or-hell.htm
http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/islam-religion.html
http//www.free-minds.org/mumins

Taro_Hiroshi

Do you agree with the Qur'an that Islam is the only religion that God will accept (319), and that all non-Muslims will go to an eternal Hell?

So bilions of Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Thai, Cambodians and other "non-Muslims" go to an eternal Hell?

The fact is that there are no verses in the Quran which states that those who follow other religions/faiths/beliefs will go to hell.

Let me share a quote with you from another thread.

...the Quran is the only spiritual/sacred text in the world that states that the followers of other religions can be rewarded with paradise in the next life. This suggests that islam is a just, tolerant and inclusive deen (way of life). In my view, islam is the most just, tolerant and inclusive deen (way of life) in the world. The teachings of the Quran seems to surpass the teachings of all other spiritual/sacred texts in the world. I would like to share some of the teachings of the Quran in this post.

Some of the teachings of the Quran

Freedom of religion (2256, 554, 1340, 1829, 5045, 763).
Freedom of preaching by other religions (6148, 2764).
Right of all religions to have their places of worship free and protected (2240).
Right given to every religion to prove it is best in doing good works (54.
Right to ask questions about Islam (96).
Right of non-Muslims not to be subjected to offence (3186, 6108, 7310).
Right to express ones national/racial identity, culture and language (3022, 4913).
People are only responsible of their own actions (1715).
Blind following of leaders and tradition has been condemned (2170, 3367, 543).
Freedom of speech (4140, 2013).
The majority are not necessarily on the right path (6116).
Followers of other religions can be rewarded with paradise in the next life (262, 3313-315, 3199).

Reference

"Islam and Human Rights" by Zahid Aziz

Also, see this post.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608067.msg380257#msg380257

Recluse

Peace Recluse.
Yes I agree with Qoran.

Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts ( Any religion...); anyone who (1) believes in God, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

i.e they are all "Muslims".

"Islam is a spiritual state of mind and not a title of a religion that belongs to a specific group of people. ANYONE who submits and serves the one God without idolizing other entities is a "Muslim".

Peace good logic,

In that case, I totally disagree with the Qur'an.....

So the "merciful" God will burn billions of Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Shintoists and others in an eternal Hell? I completely reject the idea of such a psychopathic, immoral, unjust, narcissistic, angry, insane and evil God. The Qur'an, if it really says and means exactly this, is most definitely a man-made book, and the God of the Qur'an can not be the true Creator of the universe. My own God-given conscience tells me this can not be the case.

I believe deism is the future for mankind...

Peace

Armanaziz

Have you ever visited Nepal, Recluse ?

Last year I had the fortune. On my first day at Pokhara, early at dawn our travel guide drove us to Sangarkot viewing site. I was wondering what the big deal was. I learned it soon enough. As the tip of the somber Annapurna range suddenly took a glorious golden hue at the moment of day-break, it was a spectacle to behold! Hardly have I ever seen such a marvel of nature with my own eyes. To experience this marvel one has to keep his eyes open for the exact moment of sunrise.

http//bengivenni.smugmug.com/WhatsThis/Aloka-Lekhana/fish-tail-peak/916306489_gTahK-L.jpg
(Photo credit https//alokalekhana.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/annapurna-peak-at-sunrise/)

Have you seen the marvel of the first day-break, Recluse?

By the ?first? day break I do not mean the first ever day-break in the history of the earth. The ?first day-break? happens every time the daylight outstretches the darkness of night. And every time it is a marvel.

Don?t get too weary of the night my friend, for the night gets darkest right before the dawn.

May Allah guide us to the straight way.

Regards,
Arman

Man_of_Faith

It is who you are that will determine your destiny.

Recluse

@ Wakas

I clicked and read your first link which clearly implies that all "polytheists" will go to Hell.

I already know those arguments that "monotheists" are special people

Why do I have to repeat myself?

What if you were born in Thailand as a "polytheist", would you have gone to an eternal Hell in that case?

Peace

@Arman

Ignoring the issue (self-delusion) doesn't work for me..

Peace

Recluse

The fact is that there are no verses in the Quran which states that those who follow other religions/faiths/beliefs will go to hell.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608067.msg380257#msg380257

LOL

The crux of the matter is that only "monotheists" will go to Paradise according to the Qur'an, which means that billions of Buddhists, Hindus and others are condemned to Hellfire. Why do I have to repeat myself?

Peace

Wakas

What if you were born in Thailand as a "polytheist", would you have gone to an eternal Hell in that case?

No-one is born a "polytheist".

Re eternal hell
Research http//quranix.org/appendix/qrt/8

Bender

Peace,

Of course, I could also give you numerous verses about numerous issues that are inconsistent and incompatible.

Hi,

Of course you can, but I will save you some time.
Here is a site with thousands of contradictions of the quran including your fundamental contradiction in your OP.
Click and Click

mmkhan

Hi,

Of course you can, but I will save you some time.
Here is a site with thousands of contradictions of the quran including your fundamental contradiction in your OP.
Click and Click

Peace,

Hahaaa... funny links. Thanks!

Recluse

No-one is born a "polytheist".

Re eternal hell
Research http//quranix.org/appendix/qrt/8

People are definitely born into an existing culture and religion. It's sad that I have to explain this again; why are most people in Korea, Japan or China not "monotheists"? Answer; Because they were born into another culture/religion, that's the only reason....

Why are "Saudis / Arabs" Muslim? If those same Arab "Muslims" had been born in Thailand, they too would have gone to an eternal Hell as polytheists. Now, of course I don't believe that (maybe you don't really believe it either), but that is what the Qur'an seems to imply.

Recluse

Hi,

Of course you can, but I will save you some time.
Here is a site with thousands of contradictions of the quran including your fundamental contradiction in your OP.
Click and Click

Anyone who studies the Qur'an can clearly see many immoral and primitve medieval teachings in the Qur'an, this is not even debatable!

More importantly, according to the Qur'an, billions of "polytheists" will go to an eternal Hellfire....

If you can't see how incredibly irrational, unjust and unacceptable such a belief system is, then I have nothing further to say. Feel free to believe that billions of polytheists, i.e. Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Hindus and others are condemned to an eternal Hell by the Merciful God... rotfl rotfl rotfl

If that makes sense to you, then we have a very very different idea about what logic, justice and fairness is...

Peace.

mmkhan

Even more importantly, according to the Qur'an, billions of "polytheists" will go to an eternal Hellfire

Peace,

Well you made a very big claim bro.
I am interested in knowing those aayaat which gives you info about what you claimed.
Please quote the aayaats. Thanks.

Recluse

Have you ever read the Qur'an? Look it up please, I'm sure you can find those verses yourself...

Islam is the only accceptable religion No other religion will be accepted by the merciful God.

And polytheists/mushriks will never be forgiven by the Merciful God. All of this is in the Qur'an

Are you claiming that the Qur'an doesn't say all this?

If that is the case, then you believe in a book that you haven't read.... or maybe you've read it only once and forgot.

mmkhan

Have you ever read the Qur'an? Look it up please, I'm sure you can find those verses yourself...

Islam is the only accceptable religion No other religion will be accepted by the merciful God

And polytheists will never be forgiven. All of this is in the Qur'an

You probably believe in a book that you haven't read properly....

Peace,

This is not the answer to my question bro.
It is strange that you dont know the aayaat to quote and you are making such a big claim? &
No, I don't find aayaat regarding what you said.
If you know please quote them if you cannot then repentance is the best option.

Recluse

Just wondering; Have you ever read the Qur'an bro?

Please be honest because it most certainly doesn't seem so...

I will find them for you, but I will do this only once. I'm not going to quote any more verses after that.. I don't like playing that silly game.

Here you go;

"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." &

And there are many many verses saying that muhsriks/polytheists, i.e. those who "ascribe partners to Him" will never be forgiven. I hope you already know of those verses? -\ Or do I have to find one of those too? It's not hard you know, even you could find them in seconds, I'm sure!

And I'm not going to repeat myself anymore. Only if I see sincerity, I will reply.. haven't seen much of that until now!

Peace.

mmkhan

Just wondering; Have you ever read the Qur'an bro?

Please be honest because it most certainly doesn't seem so...

I will find them for you, but I will do this only once. I'm not going to quote any more verses after that.. I don't like playing that silly game.

Here you go;

Ali Imran 85;

"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."

Peace and thanks,

I came to know that you dont know anything about alQuraanic Arabic.
There is no mention of the word 'religion' in this aayat.

Deen = System.

And the word Islam cannot be translated as Islam.
Islam means Peace.

If you are referring to the judgement day when you said 'hereafter' you are wrong again.
Please refer to this article about the meaning of alAakhirat.

Now I think no further clarification is needed. You can translate the aayat on your own now and understand it.

And there are many verses saying that muhsriks/polytheists, i.e. those who "ascribe partners to Him" will never be forgiven. I hope you already know of those verses? Or do I have to find one of those too? It's not hard you know....

You wrote

muhsriks/polytheists

Will never be forgiven
will go to an eternal Hellfire....

You also said
God will burn billions of Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Shintoists and others in an eternal Hell?

billions of Buddhists, Hindus and others are condemned to Hellfire.

And you also believe that if someone born in Thailand becomes a polytheist by default.

Please choose the single correct point from above that you want to discuss. Thanks.

Will you apologize and repent now?

Peace.

I always do to my Sustainer.

Peace.

good_logic

Peace Recluse.

I say to you "any religion" and you skip past it like you did not read it and claim that "chineese. Japoneese.,Hindus...etc are not included.

Your argument is based on misunderstanding of what "Islam" is.

May be I shall put it to you this way

Jew "Muslim", Hindu Muslim, Christian Muslim, Moslim Muslim, Japaneese Muslim, Atheist Muslim...etc Anybody/Anyreligion Muslim...(And Yes there could also be an Atheist Muslim under certain conditions). All these Muslims are defined in that verse I quoted you!!!!

I can see now,having read your posts, why you have given up with Qoran. I hope you reconsider brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Man_of_Faith

Recluse,

People are definitely born into an existing culture and religion. It's sad that I have to explain this again; why are most people in Korea, Japan or China not "monotheists"? Answer; Because they were born into another culture/religion, that's the only reason....

Why are "Saudis / Arabs" Muslim? If those same Arab "Muslims" had been born in Thailand, they too would have gone to an eternal Hell as polytheists. Now, of course I don't believe that (maybe you don't really believe it either), but that is what the Qur'an seems to imply.

Actually humans are born heavy polytheists (idolators) and what they idolize the most is their own body, or rather they associate themselves with it.

But joke apart, things do not have to do with deism at all and whether it is monotheism or polytheism but about what you make of yourself and what you associate yourself with. The only negative association is to associate oneself with this contradicting world rather than your identity in Rabb which is both singular and plural at the same time including us making different forms of deism redundant to discuss.

Be well
Amenuel